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View Full Version : Would you like to see AI Gunner effectiveness reduced?



RAF74_Buzzsaw
04-07-2004, 02:31 PM

RAF74_Buzzsaw
04-07-2004, 02:31 PM
Salute All

Question: Would you like to see the effectiveness of AI gunners on aircraft in FORGOTTEN BATTLES reduced?

F16_Fatboy
04-07-2004, 02:39 PM
I like to see the AI gunner effectivnes as accurate as it was in real life. No less or no moore!
FLSTF

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Venom079
04-07-2004, 02:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F16_Fatboy:
I like to see the AI gunner effectivnes as accurate as it was in real life. No less or no moore!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I second that...

Venom

3.JG51_BigBear
04-07-2004, 02:43 PM
I'd have to say the AI gunnery is probably as accurate as we're going to get in a sim right now. Other than the issue of the AI being able to see through clouds and firing while their aircraft is plumeting towards the earth I think they are well balanced.

73GIAP_Milan
04-07-2004, 03:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by F16_Fatboy:
I like to see the AI gunner effectivnes as accurate as it was in real life. No less or no moore!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I second that...

Venom <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Totally agree to these guys...
The gunners now act as snipers often...
something has to be added or changed to their code to make their aim less perfect and FAR more historical..

Regards,

Der Tote Baron a.k.a. SK_Black_Knight....
______________________________
Sky Knights Squadron Leader

Venom079
04-07-2004, 03:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Der_Tote_Baron:
The gunners now act as snipers often...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah man, sometimes i'm taken out with "ONE" shot...c'mon now http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Fennec_P
04-07-2004, 03:14 PM
Not saying that its too hard or too easy (c'mon, thats what the difficulty levels are for) but it would be nice if the gunners fired more, and hit less.

Human gunners usually go nuts and shoot lots. AI gunners shoot too little.

Rebel_Yell_21
04-07-2004, 03:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fennec_P:
it would be nice if the gunners fired more, and hit less.

Human gunners usually go nuts and shoot lots. AI gunners shoot too little.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My thoughts exactly.

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the_rydster
04-07-2004, 03:17 PM
I don't know if it because I am playing an unpatched version, but I notice a few things about the gunnery skills of the AI.

It is omnipotent in a head on.

It tends to give too little lead in any sort of turn. If the enemy is at my 6 and I am creeping along in an IL-2 or something I find if a break at a constant rate I can avoid the fire most of the time.

Speaking of AI, I managed to wipeout 6 B-329 (I think that is what they are called)who were chasing my La-5 today by flying at 400 ft over a friendly heavily AA defended town. They got shot to pieces......perhaps in real life they would have thought better of it?

Mr_Brot
04-07-2004, 03:50 PM
I have the feeling that I'm playing a different game as some of you. Since AEP the AI-gunners are mostly harmless. Reducing their effectiveness even further would make escort missions almost impossible.

Jetbuff
04-07-2004, 03:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr_Brot:
I have the feeling that I'm playing a different game as some of you. Since AEP the AI-gunners are mostly harmless. Reducing their effectiveness even further would make escort missions almost impossible.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed... Bombers weren't completely defenseless and AI gunners in FB are just about right now, dangerous but not deadly.

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Aaron_GT
04-07-2004, 04:03 PM
Given the numbers of rounds fired per
plane hit in WW2, the AI gunners are
overdone. On the other hand, fighter
pilots probably didn't typically press
their attacks to the level we see on
AEP, especially not from the 6.

I suspect that AI gunners are more
effective than they should be historically
to make up for small formations being required
for CPU load reasons. I read that the same
is true for AAA. I suppose if you want large
bomber formations you need EAW (sadly I can't
get this to work with my set up any more
as it tried to use my rudder pedals as the
joystick... also Janes WW2F doesn't want to
play with my MS FFB2 stick, so I'm not having
much luck with alternative sims).

SeaFireLIV
04-07-2004, 04:09 PM
AI gunners are certainly less effective in AEP than before. Sometimes I`ll see a gunner shooting stupidly wild, way off target. Other times they are dangerous. But come up direct on their six and sit there, every time you`ll be shot down. Use tactics. The ONLY time you should be able to wander up behind a bomber with ease should be when the rear gunner`s incapacitated.

Also, headons are now survivable, but again, be careful!


SeaFireLIV...

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GAU-8
04-07-2004, 04:13 PM
change needs to be done.

because it being a sim, i beleive Aaron GT is right on that subject matter.. we have no real fear of getting up close and personal on a tail gunner.

on the other hand. when i got an aircraft on my 9, and the gunners all blazin on my 3... somethins not right..

RxMan
04-07-2004, 06:07 PM
I just wish you could kill them easier, it makes no sense now, hundreds of rounds into the tailgunner or any gunner position and the b*****d is still shooting.

Longjocks
04-07-2004, 07:08 PM
The only thing I think would be nice to see is if the occassional miraculous sniper shots/bursts from gunners at any strange angle, taking out your engine (with a couple of rounds) or pilot, is reduced. But since AEP I've not seen this happen very much (although I've hardly played against bombers since getting AEP) so it may well have been addressed.

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Longjocks
04-07-2004, 07:09 PM
I apologise... I hit the wrong button when trying to edit the previous post. My friends always said I was dumb.

Bearcat99
04-07-2004, 07:16 PM
No I would not.. I would however like to see it scalable..... and for ships,ground AAA and bobmers as well. Even if it was just 3 values say 0,1,2 in the conf... it would be a lot better if it were in the game interface but..... I am hoping that things like that will be implementedf in BoB. I think it's kind of unrealistic to expect too much from PF that is very different from FB... at least if we want them to be compatible..but with BoB being a whole new engine I have no doubt that some if not all of our little peeves about FB will be corrected.

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ImpStarDuece
04-08-2004, 12:39 AM
i like the effectiveness of the gunners as it is, even if it is or isn't completely accurate.

My logic is this: attacking a bomber formation was HARD, particularly an escorted one. Ask the Germans or the Japanese, or those that survived such attacks. Therefore, in il-2 attacking a bomber should be hard. Not impossible, but one of the most difficult things to do in the game.

If gunner effectiveness is reduced, the difficulty in attacking bombers in reduced, subsequently lessening the challenge and skill required to down a bomber. Result: a less immersive and realistic sim for those of us that like to fight the battles as we feel they would have/should have been fought.

Realising that you may/will get shot down by doing stupid things -like attaking from directly behind, or giving gunners a silouhette to shoot, or stalling out near a bomber- will stop you from doing such things and encourage smarter tactics, generally taken from real world tactics, with a higher probability of success.

Head on attacks, long range cannon sniping, high AoA attacks, diving attacks, swarming tactics, beam attacks, feints and jockeying for position. All of these were used and they were ALL more effective than the 'climb onto their six and blast away' that i used as a noob and that many players (i'll bet) still continue to use.

Keep gunner effectiveness high. IN real life attacking a bomber formation was dangerous and frustrating, and this should be reflected in the game. It may put off some arcade style players, but hey thats what the 'invincibility', unlimited ammo and realistic gunnery options are there for. What it does give those players that embark on a more realistic journey is a game that i far richer in a real world context. A sim, NOT a shoot'em'up.

I HATE getting shot down by the rear gunner of a Pe-8 or B-17, hate it worse than getting shot down by nother pilot. Why? Because it means that i was killed through my own stupidity. I was the one that gave my position away, I was the one that allowed the gunner to shoot at me, and i was the one that paid the price. Golden bb's do happen, and a bomber can put out a serious amount of lead when threatned. Respect you foe, approach them properly and with a bit or luck and some courage you might just shoot some of them down.

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

ImpStarDuece
04-08-2004, 12:45 AM
IN case you cant tel, i vote NO! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!

clint-ruin
04-08-2004, 12:54 AM
That polls such as this are being posted after the AEP castration is pretty clear evidence that such complaints will continue until gunners are entirely removed from the game.

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RealHondo
04-08-2004, 05:45 AM
But you guys know that one can set bomber AI seperatly in the conf.ini since AEP?

MaxBomberSkill=

ranges from 0 - 3

Btw, next version of DGenTweaker (link below) will feature this setting, too.

http://fly.to/dgentweaker

Auf SimHQ unterwegs als Hondo

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