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aminx
05-14-2004, 12:51 PM
att developers:
---------------

can you please inform us wether a mediteranean add on or stand alone is beeing developed?
if positive, when would you envisage the game to be released?
regards
aminx

http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/aminx/113.jpg

aminx
05-14-2004, 12:51 PM
att developers:
---------------

can you please inform us wether a mediteranean add on or stand alone is beeing developed?
if positive, when would you envisage the game to be released?
regards
aminx

http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/aminx/113.jpg

VW-IceFire
05-14-2004, 01:53 PM
Oleg said that Med will be done after The Battle of Britain. So maybe 2006.

The Battle of Britain game he's building from the ground up and its designed to launch into multiple stages of WWII.

Although it may take a while he seems dead set on doing the Med in impressive detail sometime in a couple of years.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

clint-ruin
05-14-2004, 01:58 PM
Screenshots have come out showing a North Africa themed map for AEP 2.01, so in the meantime we will probably see some ersatz campaigns and missions done with that.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
05-14-2004, 07:13 PM
Med campaign map is 50km wide, about 30 miles--at least the one I saw posted.

According to 777 the FP developers are still deciding if FP will be compatible with FB. If so, then the USA carriers can be used for The Meds against German and the new Italian planes coming soon (G.55, MC 202-205, SM.79 3 engine bomber hopefully with torpedo capability). Something to think about in building a Campaign to aid the developers in Choosing compatibility between FP and FB. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

pdog1
05-14-2004, 07:22 PM
Yes please.

http://www.x-plane.org/users/pdog109/sicilia.jpg

VW-IceFire
05-14-2004, 09:17 PM
What in the...

What is that?

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

LEXX_Luthor
05-14-2004, 09:26 PM
That is pdog's Revenge.

---> Just a few lines of constant elevation, and they are in soft grey.



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

[This message was edited by LEXX_Luthor on Fri May 14 2004 at 08:35 PM.]

VW-IceFire
05-14-2004, 10:06 PM
How real is his revenge?

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Aeronautico
05-14-2004, 10:18 PM
Good question...

That's Sicily by the way.

It's not coming from pdog though: he only saved it from his cache.
It was on another thread, and it's been deleted.
The original name was grab0005...

Airports should have two icons each, and are too sparse; the grid should contain gray lines too; elevation seems irrealistic; data seems to refer to modern day.


A.

--------------------
Airplanes are now built to carry a pilot and a dog in the cockpit: the pilot's job is
to feed the dog, and the dog's job is to bite the pilot if he touches anything...

- Arlen Rens, Lockheed Martin test pilot

pdog1
05-14-2004, 11:26 PM
those are not airfields... those are bridge icons.. yes its wrong but its still pretty to look at and hope to fly over one day in a 202.
there was another map but i didn't save it, had airfields only near comiso, sciacca and trapani, but there was no palermo-boccadifalco airfield(which i'd really to see take off/land from, been there before, big mountain on side looks cool that i have climbed up before http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Palermo-boccadifalco airfield, spring 1943
http://www.x-plane.org/users/pdog109/palermo1.jpg

[This message was edited by pdog1 on Fri May 14 2004 at 10:39 PM.]

aminx
05-15-2004, 03:18 AM
icefire and med sim:
-------------------

thanks very much for detailed reply,looking forward to same.
aminx

http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/aminx/113.jpg

aminx
05-15-2004, 03:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Med campaign map is 50km wide, about 30 miles--at least the one I saw posted.

According to 777 the FP developers are still deciding if FP will be compatible with FB. If so, then the USA carriers can be used for _The Meds_ against German and the new Italian planes coming soon (G.55, MC 202-205, SM.79 3 engine bomber hopefully with torpedo capability). Something to think about in building a Campaign to _aid_ the developers in Choosing compatibility between FP and FB. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish _"Gladiator"_ listed as _J8A_ _...in Aces Expansion Pack_


_"You will still have FB , you will lose _nothing_"_ ~WUAF_Badsight
_"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..."_ ~Bearcat99
_"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age"_ ~ElAurens
:
_"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore_!_"_ ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

there is enough planes and skins now available to give us a med sim add on to fb,all we need is maps and the right ships.the italian planes look almost ready,the ju88 and beaufighter is ready,the liberty ship is almost ready,i'm sure the italian speech file is ready.i would gladly pay 35 euros for this expansion pack right now and i'm sure many europeans would do so while knowing that we would be backed by sizeable patches and add ons as we go along.
aminx

http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/aminx/113.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
05-15-2004, 03:40 AM
Respecting the thread title, I only told half the story. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The other half is we need Russian planes against Japanese planes.

And if FP has P~26 then Spain becomes one step closer (at least one was used in Spain).
But without early Bf~109 and other pre~1941 German planes Spain does not look good. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Aeronautico
05-15-2004, 05:13 AM
No no pdog, I mean airfields. This misunderstanding puts definitively suspects off of you... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I'm no expert on this, but around Catania for example, some should be there.

I personally tend (want http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) to believe that map is real: why would be quickly deleted otherwise, in the first place?

A.

--------------------
Airplanes are now built to carry a pilot and a dog in the cockpit: the pilot's job is
to feed the dog, and the dog's job is to bite the pilot if he touches anything...

- Arlen Rens, Lockheed Martin test pilot

269GA-Veltro
05-15-2004, 05:19 AM
Now we are also working on MC 200 by Radek, probably one of the best model we have ever seen for FB. Cockpit is WIP.

This bird absolutely must be fliable!
http://ourworld.cs.com/Nibbionibbio/MC200.jpg


269GA~Veltro
http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/VELTROVELTROVELTRO.JPG
www.269ga.it (http://www.269ga.it)

pdog1
05-15-2004, 06:03 AM
woah i can almost taste the verde... that is sweet indeed

p1ngu666
05-15-2004, 06:59 AM
woah :O
iirec it would take awhile todo that pic of sicily so i think itll be made http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
also there might be a airfield where u takeoff in the direction of the sea, maybe even runway goes into the sea :O
saw that in a funny war film
i would post url for stuff i scanned for club med, but worried about copywrite http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~menard/
find it urselfs http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

s.bush
05-15-2004, 10:43 AM
whats the intentions of the med club i visited in the netwings il2development forum ?
or better even,where are all the italian planes under development going to end up?
one more question,is bruno giacomazzi and the ground crew involved in all this?

s.bush

aminx
05-15-2004, 10:52 AM
i am now reading "fire in the sky" in order to educate myself and get ready for pf in october.i would like to know which is the best historical book to read on the air war in the mediteranean?
cheers
aminx

http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/aminx/113.jpg

pdog1
05-15-2004, 12:00 PM
theres no "best" general history but check out the follwing
theres not to much stuff on the med but you can check out the works of Brian Cull, Christopher Shores and Nicola Malizia.
Malta: The Hurricane Years 1940-1941
Malta: The Spitfire Year 1942
Hurricanes over Tobruk
Spitfires over Sicily
Air war over yugoslavia, crete and greece
Malta Spitfire: George Buerling

aminx
05-15-2004, 12:33 PM
roger
will go down to the book store and see which are available.thanks.
aminx

http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/aminx/113.jpg

Aeronautico
05-15-2004, 12:40 PM
Mhhhh... thinking twice: those 4 icons could mean 2 airfields?
With loooooooooong runways I mean.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(Sorry)

--------------------
Airplanes are now built to carry a pilot and a dog in the cockpit: the pilot's job is
to feed the dog, and the dog's job is to bite the pilot if he touches anything...

- Arlen Rens, Lockheed Martin test pilot

269GA-Veltro
05-15-2004, 12:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
woah :O
iirec it would take awhile todo that pic of sicily so i think itll be made http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
also there might be a airfield where u takeoff in the direction of the sea, maybe even runway goes into the sea :O
saw that in a funny war film
i would post url for stuff i scanned for club med, but worried about copywrite http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~menard/
find it urselfs http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank, thank you very much!!! Great pics! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

P.S.: CR 32....we can't do it now. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

269GA~Veltro
http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/VELTROVELTROVELTRO.JPG
www.269ga.it (http://www.269ga.it)

269GA-Veltro
05-15-2004, 01:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by s.bush:
whats the intentions of the med club i visited in the netwings il2development forum ?
or better even,where are all the italian planes under development going to end up?
one more question,is bruno giacomazzi and the ground crew involved in all this?

s.bush<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We are working on:

FLIABLE
Macchi: Mc 200, 202, 205;
Fiat: G 55;
Reggiane: Re 2000, 2001, 2005;

We would like have this birds all fliable...but we don't have a lot of time again. Now, G 55 is completed; MC 202/205 (new models and improved cockpits)) near to be completed; MC 200 WIP (a must); Re 2000, 2001 WIP; Re 2005 after Re 2001.

AI
SM 79, and some others... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

Stay tuned. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

P.S.: Bruno has worked on Macchi gunsight and cockpits research.

269GA~Veltro
http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/VELTROVELTROVELTRO.JPG
www.269ga.it (http://www.269ga.it)

pdog1
05-15-2004, 01:05 PM
AI sm79?
ma ce suceso con il cockpit di Dux?

http://www.x-plane.org/users/pdog109/sparvieroS1.jpg

s.bush
05-16-2004, 01:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Veltro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by s.bush:
whats the intentions of the med club i visited in the netwings il2development forum ?
or better even,where are all the italian planes under development going to end up?
one more question,is bruno giacomazzi and the ground crew involved in all this?

s.bush<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We are working on:

_FLIABLE_
Macchi: Mc 200, 202, 205;
Fiat: G 55;
Reggiane: Re 2000, 2001, 2005;

We would like have this birds all fliable...but we don't have a lot of time again. Now, G 55 is completed; MC 202/205 (new models and improved cockpits)) near to be completed; MC 200 WIP (a must); Re 2000, 2001 WIP; Re 2005 after Re 2001.

_AI_
SM 79, and some others... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

Stay tuned. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

P.S.: Bruno has worked on Macchi gunsight and cockpits research.

269GA~Veltro
http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/VELTROVELTROVELTRO.JPG
http://www.269ga.it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
att veltro:
-----------
why not ask ground crew to develope all the ships that you need, axis and allied?

i understand you might be able to solve the problem of the carriers with pf.

you need the swordfish.

we only need a couple of italian land vehicles for the airports,the rest we have.ground crew can oblige.

what else now......lets see.....

s.bush

pdog1
05-16-2004, 02:40 PM
well lets get these planes flyable first before anyting else haha

269GA-Veltro
05-17-2004, 06:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by s.bush:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Veltro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by s.bush:
whats the intentions of the med club i visited in the netwings il2development forum ?
or better even,where are all the italian planes under development going to end up?
one more question,is bruno giacomazzi and the ground crew involved in all this?

s.bush<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We are working on:

_FLIABLE_
Macchi: Mc 200, 202, 205;
Fiat: G 55;
Reggiane: Re 2000, 2001, 2005;

We would like have this birds all fliable...but we don't have a lot of time again. Now, G 55 is completed; MC 202/205 (new models and improved cockpits)) near to be completed; MC 200 WIP (a must); Re 2000, 2001 WIP; Re 2005 after Re 2001.

_AI_
SM 79, and some others... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

Stay tuned. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

P.S.: Bruno has worked on Macchi gunsight and cockpits research.

269GA~Veltro
http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/VELTROVELTROVELTRO.JPG
http://www.269ga.it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
att veltro:
-----------
why not ask ground crew to develope all the ships that you need, axis and allied?

i understand you might be able to solve the problem of the carriers with pf.

you need the swordfish.

we only need a couple of italian land vehicles for the airports,the rest we have.ground crew can oblige.

what else now......lets see.....

s.bush<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

pdog is right, first of all we need Macchi ecc. ecc.. Your idea is great, it's dipend also by Oleg. We'll have a patch, or an addon? We don't have much time again (June is limit). I would like have C 200, 202 and 205 100% as soon as possible, to help the other modellers who are working on Reggiane serie. This first of all.

P.S.: i repeat again, i'm not a modeller. G 55, 202, 205 are models by Giobianco-Malolo; C 200 by Radek-Malolo; Re 2005 by Giobianco-Flakwalker; Re 2000 by Jucotsa; 2001 by Flakwalker. SM 79 by Giobianco-Harti. Cockpit by Pippz. Others (AI) WIP: TOP SECRET.

269GA~Veltro
http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/VELTROVELTROVELTRO.JPG
www.269ga.it (http://www.269ga.it)

aminx
05-17-2004, 08:50 AM
TT veltro:
----------
grazie per la sua risposta dettagliata,a questo punto bisogna augurare la squadra un buon lavoro
e speriamo che cé la fano in tempo completare il lavoro svolto a inserire il massimo possibile nel prossimo patch in uscita tra poco.
mi tolga una curiosita,quello che non riuscite a inserire addesso verebe incluso in un ulteriore patch(navi,vehicoli etc) o bisogna dopo aspettare l'anno prossimo per il add on completo programmato per il dopo BOB?
tanti saluti
aminx

http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/aminx/113.jpg

p1ngu666
05-17-2004, 05:39 PM
ive found some interesting cr42 varients last night (couldnt sleep http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif )
20mm on the bottom wing, and one with lights too (night fighter)
i wonder if xanity (he made it didnt he? i could be wrong) is aware of these and is able to model these

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

pdog1
05-17-2004, 07:40 PM
20mm wing version was fantasy, never existed, there was some that had a light on the wing like you side for night fighting, those also had elongated flame dampers.
Xanty did the CR.42AS model with sand filter and bomb racks

269GA-Veltro
05-18-2004, 01:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
TT veltro:
----------
grazie per la sua risposta dettagliata,a questo punto bisogna augurare la squadra un buon lavoro
e speriamo che cé la fano in tempo completare il lavoro svolto a inserire il massimo possibile nel prossimo patch in uscita tra poco.
mi tolga una curiosita,quello che non riuscite a inserire addesso verebe incluso in un ulteriore patch(navi,vehicoli etc) o bisogna dopo aspettare l'anno prossimo per il add on completo programmato per il dopo BOB?
tanti saluti
aminx

http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/aminx/113.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You speak italian, a good italian!!!
Thank! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Now, today Oleg will receive G 55. ......we would like have at least G 55 in the June patch (AEP patch); the others (Macchi, Reggiane ecc.) in a next patch, with Ju 88 ecc. ecc.. All our birds are for FB not for MED (after BoB).

Ships, tank, ecc. ecc....for now we don't have time. First of all, if we had time in the future (after June) we would like work on SM 79 cockpits (only AI now by Harti); Sparviero is absolutely a priority. But i can't say nothing now. We don't know if Oleg is planning a second ADDON after AEP, with Italy, Malta ecc. ecc.....it would be great. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Personally i would like have also Spitfire Mark VC, Swordfish, HurryBomber and....why not a British Carrier (Ark Royal, Eagle for ex.), using Pacific's engine....and off course Malta. Waiting for new MED sim, an FB-MED sim would be a nice present for all.

269GA~Veltro
http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/VELTROVELTROVELTRO.JPG
www.269ga.it (http://www.269ga.it)

LEXX_Luthor
05-18-2004, 01:55 AM
Veltro:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>......we would like have at least G 55 in the June patch (AEP patch); the others (Macchi, Reggiane ecc.) in a next patch, with Ju 88 ecc. ecc..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes! So Patch be June http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

269GA-Veltro
05-18-2004, 02:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Veltro:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>......we would like have at least G 55 in the June patch (AEP patch); the others (Macchi, Reggiane ecc.) in a next patch, with Ju 88 ecc. ecc..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes__!__ So Patch be June http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

2 weeks.......you are in June.

269GA~Veltro
http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/VELTROVELTROVELTRO.JPG
www.269ga.it (http://www.269ga.it)

aminx
05-18-2004, 02:43 AM
ATT VELTRO
..........

thanks reply,the best thing that can happen is oleg confirming to all that he will develope a full med sim as an add on to fb.please try to discuss this subject in detail with him .this would anyway not hinder his future effort to develope a med sim based on the new BOB engine in 2006.plus remember our earlier discussion to bring in the third party modelers suggested earlier whom you know very well and develope all the extras oleg has no time for due to present work load and "vary impegni".
most of us have no clue about the financial side,costs, benefits and projections of maddox games so in principal we are speaking from our heart,they must try and make economical sense out of our desires by putting us to the test and see wether we will buy the sim......hmmm... do you think anyone in europe would ?and who and where is the competition?....exactly!!
aminx
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/aminx/113.jpg

s.bush
05-18-2004, 03:12 AM
the general life span has increased dramatically since ww2 due to various factors that we are not going to mention here.there is a a high chance that the physically fit under the age of 80 would still be around two years from now specially since there is no risk of beeing called up and sent to the front after 30 days of basic training.
having said that what could kill you is having to wait for the upcoming patch for fb which now looks like its going to be more than one so thats double stress.then we have to wait for october for pf which anyway would be followed by patches and add ons through 2005 2006,more stress.then come mid 2005 we all await with great anxiety BOB,more stress.
some let downs and complaints would be inevitable,more stress.cost of upgrades and various arguments at home over domestic priorities ie. who takes the dog out when each release is available on the shelves?more stress.then there is this argument about not giving enough attention to the beloved one etc and how birth rates and marriages are droping because of us !!
can someone please take over from here.....
s.bush

http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/aminx/cors_land_car.jpg