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XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 06:47 AM
Hello Oleg,
First, thank you for finally giving us historical aviation nuts/gamers a sim that is a pure joy to play!

I am thrilled to see japanese aircraft in development!
(Please don't forget A5M or Ki 27)

I realize that the Ki 84 is still in development, but I am concerned with the propeller. Actual aircraft was equiped with a four-bladed unit. The prop itself was colored in a bluish-gray-green color as oposed to the "standard" brown associated with Japanese aircraft. The back-sides of the blade could be either the same color, brown, or black. Spinners were either brown or green.

Also,the version of Zero you have modelled appears to be an early A6M2, with incorrect late-war colors and canon common to A6M5 variants. I know you want to make every effort to to present the most accurate skins!
A6M2's carried an overall light gray scheme with a slightly warm hue, similar to RLM 02 but a little lighter.Cowlings were black as portrayed. Some A6M2's carried the green/gray scheme, but these were old and weary iarframes relegatd to training duties. Also, canons were completely internal with no external barels.

A6M5's had a different cowling with changes to the carb intake, shorter blunter wings, and the longer canon barels.

The Zero on the development page is a mixture of both variants.

Thanks for giving me an opportunity to point these small things out.

Gregg Cooper

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 06:47 AM
Hello Oleg,
First, thank you for finally giving us historical aviation nuts/gamers a sim that is a pure joy to play!

I am thrilled to see japanese aircraft in development!
(Please don't forget A5M or Ki 27)

I realize that the Ki 84 is still in development, but I am concerned with the propeller. Actual aircraft was equiped with a four-bladed unit. The prop itself was colored in a bluish-gray-green color as oposed to the "standard" brown associated with Japanese aircraft. The back-sides of the blade could be either the same color, brown, or black. Spinners were either brown or green.

Also,the version of Zero you have modelled appears to be an early A6M2, with incorrect late-war colors and canon common to A6M5 variants. I know you want to make every effort to to present the most accurate skins!
A6M2's carried an overall light gray scheme with a slightly warm hue, similar to RLM 02 but a little lighter.Cowlings were black as portrayed. Some A6M2's carried the green/gray scheme, but these were old and weary iarframes relegatd to training duties. Also, canons were completely internal with no external barels.

A6M5's had a different cowling with changes to the carb intake, shorter blunter wings, and the longer canon barels.

The Zero on the development page is a mixture of both variants.

Thanks for giving me an opportunity to point these small things out.

Gregg Cooper

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 08:14 AM
It is just work in progress. We plan at least 2 modifications of Zero.
So in final all will be Ok /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

We have great help directly from Japan.
Both Ki-84 and Zero will have highest quality cockpits, like never was done before... /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

More come later....



Oleg Maddox
1C:Maddox Games

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 08:33 AM
I take it they'll be accompanied by a Manchuria / Vladivostok map?


And Oleg, for a guy who just got out of surgery a few days ago, what the heck are you doing up at 7:15 in the morning? Go back to bed, man, sleep in!

I mean, I know flying's in your blood, but health first, planes second. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 06:08 PM
Hey. While you're at it. Make a dynamic kamikaze pilot career.

That shouldn't take too long, hehehehe.



The G forces Buzz the G forces!

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 06:19 PM
aaah, i ses an A6M2 and A6M5 at the horizont /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif , perhaps /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

actually im looking forward to the K-84 "Frank" , guess why /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 07:43 PM
Hi Oleg

Will there be maps according to the Ki-84/A6M2 release, maybe with some opponents to the Zero? Some are already existing or in the works.

http://www.geocities.com/kimurakai/SIG/262_01011.jpg


Kimura

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 11:27 PM
that's a good question!
(other words for a simple "Bump", in german i'd say "ShinDen"!)

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XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 11:50 PM
S!
It's great to see that Oleg is 'upgradin' theses cokpits!!!! Lookin forward to theses new "made in japan" cockpits =]

hope they till august!

Luftwaffe Brasil
For├ža e Honra!


LBR=Hartmann in HL

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 12:45 AM
Coop13 wrote:
- Hello Oleg,
- First, thank you for finally giving us historical
- aviation nuts/gamers a sim that is a pure joy to
- play!
-
- I am thrilled to see japanese aircraft in
- development!
- (Please don't forget A5M or Ki 27)
-
- I realize that the Ki 84 is still in development,
- but I am concerned with the propeller. Actual
- aircraft was equiped with a four-bladed unit. The
- prop itself was colored in a bluish-gray-green color
- as oposed to the "standard" brown associated with
- Japanese aircraft. The back-sides of the blade could
- be either the same color, brown, or black. Spinners
- were either brown or green.
-
- Also,the version of Zero you have modelled appears
- to be an early A6M2, with incorrect late-war colors
- and canon common to A6M5 variants. I know you want
- to make every effort to to present the most accurate
- skins!
- A6M2's carried an overall light gray scheme with a
- slightly warm hue, similar to RLM 02 but a little
- lighter.Cowlings were black as portrayed. Some
- A6M2's carried the green/gray scheme, but these were
- old and weary iarframes relegatd to training duties.
- Also, canons were completely internal with no
- external barels.
-
- A6M5's had a different cowling with changes to the
- carb intake, shorter blunter wings, and the longer
- canon barels.
-
- The Zero on the development page is a mixture of
- both variants.
-
- Thanks for giving me an opportunity to point these
- small things out.
-
- Gregg Cooper
-
-

I'm glad someone loves Japanese fighters as much as I do and wants to see them done right.




The A6M2 in developement is clearly the A6M2 Model 21.

It is painted in a Green scheme consistent with those schemes applied to planes assigned to land based units. This scheme appears to have been common to most land based Zeros throughout the war, regardless of model. While the A6M5 is the Zeke most commonly associated with the green scheme, it most certainly existed on A6M2s assigned to land based combat units.

http://pages.prodigy.net/4parks/_images/greenzeke1.jpg

The first 3 planes in this picture are A6M2 Model 21s, and the farthest 2 planes are A6M5s.



The external cannon barrels are more problematic.

The most common wing armament of the A6M2 Type 21 was the 20mm Type 99 Model 1 Mk 3 cannon, the barrel of which did not extend past the leading edge of the wing.

However, the gun modelled is clearly intended to be the 20mm Type 99 Model 2 Mk 3 cannon. This gun was common to the A6M5 and the barrel did extend beyond the leading edge of the wing.

However, since this appears to the be the only difference between models, and since the Japanese recycled weapons, it's entirely conceivable that SOME A6M2s were retrofitted with the Model 2. So while I'd prefer to have flush cannons, I won't argue that the longer barrelled Model 2 was never used.



You are absolutely correct about the prop on the Ki-84. The props on every Ki-84 I've ever seen were 4-bladed.



Colors of Japanese Army Fighters were more varied than that of any other country. And in my opinion, prettier http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I understand the justification for the inclusion of the Ki-84 into FB is that it saw action against the Soviets during "Operation August Storm," the invasion of Manchuria by the Soviets in August, 1945.

The only unit that I know of that flew the Ki-84 during this campaign against the Soviets was the 104th Sentai. Their paint jobs varied, but the unit tail insignia remained consistent between planes. The following are some examples of Ki-84 schemes for the 104th that would be correct for FB:

http://pages.prodigy.net/4parks/_images/104th1.jpg

http://pages.prodigy.net/4parks/_images/104th2.jpg

http://pages.prodigy.net/4parks/_images/104th3.jpg


Regards,

SkyChimp

http://pages.prodigy.net/4parks/_uimages/japsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 01:59 AM
the 2 planes behind the M2s could also be A6M3 , who could tell in that distance /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

the first A6M3 were called "Hamp", instead of the offical Zero Codesign "Zeke", from the Allies, because of ther clipped wings it looks like the japanese had a new plane in service /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


i forgott a modifikation of the A6M2 - with that there would be "less" work- the Nakajima A6M2-N Rufe :
same cockpit, "just" replace the undercarriage with swimmers /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 05:56 AM
I have this pic in a larger vesion also shots from this field at difffernt angles. It wa a mix of type 21 and 22's. The 21 ad 22 are very close. The fue****e and wings are almost identical, The 22 got a more refined cowl, the carburator intake was moved to the top of the cowl, and a refined oil cooler. There were type 22's the got a a long barreled cannon. Now i am not saying it happend(of coarse i never looked for this befor) but given that the type 21 wing and type 22 wing are almost identical it could have happend. Now this is kind of a stretch, but it is possible. Also the south pacific was not a great place for spares and supplies. A scavened aircraft? Maybe the builder has a pic i have never seen. If the builder does i would love to see it. I am a scale model builder would be nifty to throw down at a contest go told u are out of your mind, and bam there is the pic lol. O the model 22 with the long barrels was an A6m3 model 22 koh...
S!

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 07:04 AM
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~la3k-kmt/zero2.gif


<center>

http://www.geocities.com/warhawk530/AVG.jpg


'It is the Courage, not the score, that counts ...' - Mohd Naqiuddin

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 09:12 AM
the ki 84 model looks fantastic but the zero model dev screens looks horable the nose is the wrong shape it doesnt have the exhausts pipes which were on both the 1 and 5. By far if it comes to the game looking like it does in the dev screens it will be the worst looking model in fb, the cockpit must be made from someone else becuase it looks very good. I dont know how it passed olegs quality test to be honest. But a new plane is always welcome if you flew cfs2 you will see how bad the fb model is

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter


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XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 12:23 PM
LeadSpitter_ wrote:
- the zero model
- dev screens looks horable the nose is the wrong
- shape it doesnt have the exhausts pipes which were
- on both the 1 and 5.
-
-

The Model 11 and 22 did not have exhaust stubs showing for they used single large exhaust pipes out the bottom on each side. With the Model 52, the 4 exhaust stubs came out the side.

There seems to be a mix-match of characteristics - a model 11/22/32 fuselage with a Model 52 wing.

The Model 52 had long cannon barrels projecting from the wing. The Model 52 did not have the bend in the top of the radio mast either. The Model 52 did not have a lower cowling bulge for the air intake. It was in the upper lip of the cowling. The openings for the mgs seems to be missing also. There was 2 small plates in front of the nose ring panel line, not 1.

I hope the A6M is not near to being finished, there is much 'correction' to be done. Such a waste to not do it correctly the first time round.

A6M5
http://community.webshots.com/sym/image1/6/24/74/31562474setTixmrZh_ph.jpg


A6M2
http://community.webshots.com/sym/image1/6/9/6/31560906CIcivdvgJw_ph.jpg


"I never saw the Me109 with the black heart again. I mention the Me109 with the black heart and "200" written on the tail."
Me109G-14 of Erich Hartmann

http://www.yeowell19.freeserve.co.uk/hartmanncs_1.jpg


Message Edited on 06/17/0307:26AM by MiloMorai

XyZspineZyX
06-17-2003, 05:18 PM
Not that I dislike the Japanese (and other exotic) aircraft but it makes me wonder what the reasoning behind it is to include them as for example some loadouts on Me-109 wont be modelled because "they were not used on the EF".

It seems one the one hand everything included needs to be "historicaly correct", and one the other hand there is no problem whatsoever adding "off theatre/off era" aircraft.(Zero/P80)

Can anyone explain me the reasoning behind this?

Oh; PS: BIG FAT DISCLAIMER
Im OK with any and all aircraft included to FB.

<marquee>
************ Stukageschwader 77 : Soon coming to an airbase near you. http://www.stg-77.net ************ </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 12:18 AM
StG77_Fritz_X wrote:

- Can anyone explain me the reasoning behind this?
-
- Oh; PS: BIG FAT DISCLAIMER
- Im OK with any and all aircraft included to FB.

To capture a Japanese market.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://pages.prodigy.net/4parks/_uimages/japsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 12:25 AM
I think a simple ficticius (non-real) map like the online summer series with islands and pacific super blue water would make wonders and could be done without the headacke of accuracy and sense. Maybe a month time? /i/smilies/16x16_man-wink.gif

I love the Zeke. Anyone for a "Betty" too?

<img src=http://www.silence.plus.com/xanty/stuff/betty.jpg>

<img src=http://www.silence.plus.com/xanty/stuff/fb_falco.jpg>

Message Edited on 06/18/0312:26AM by xanty

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 12:25 AM
If it's modeled correctly, you will die with the first burst that hits near the cockpit (no armor). Or light up like a Zippo when the fuel tank is hit. I will sure love shootin em. Kind of like shootin Migs now. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 03:41 AM
How about a good luck teabag hanging from the gunsight??

The_Blue_Devil
06-18-2003, 09:52 AM
1) .50cal+Japanese A/C= Bonfire
2) Speed+Agility+Surprise= Japanese A/C advantage
3) Japanese A/C + FB= Us wanting a P-38, Corsair, Hellcat and P-47m<only fair>


<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>

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Message Edited on 06/18/0304:53AM by The_Blue_Devil

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 07:58 PM
hi oleg http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

- We have great help directly from Japan.
Thank you very much.

HP is Updating.
please check http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



----------------------------------------------------------
My friend question.
"If you fight to P51, whitch airplane do you select?"
Ace said.
"I will select OscarÔ┬ü@model 3 than Frank.I never lose!"

----------------------------------------------------------

P-kun

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 11:17 PM
That remembers me to good old CFS2 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

edit: ..........and flying these Zeros with opened canopy./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif (adressed to Oleg) /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.geocities.com/kimurakai/SIG/262_01011.jpg


Kimura



Message Edited on 06/18/0311:19PM by KIMURA

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 12:04 AM
Yes Kimura, opening canopies on the Zero would be nice.

Have you seen this 3D model of a Betty?

http://www.ss.iij4u.or.jp/%7Ejime/images/46Li.jpg


No, that's not a painting.

http://battlesub.hp.infoseek.co.jp/images/G4M222/33Li.jpg

http://battlesub.hp.infoseek.co.jp/images/G4M222/23Li.jpg

http://battlesub.hp.infoseek.co.jp/images/G4M222/52Li.jpg

http://battlesub.hp.infoseek.co.jp/images/G4M222/22Li.jpg

http://battlesub.hp.infoseek.co.jp/images/G4M222/34Li.jpg

http://battlesub.hp.infoseek.co.jp/images/G4M222/28Li.jpg


Take the virtual tour:
http://battlesub.hp.infoseek.co.jp/images/G4M222/G4M01.wmv


Regards,

SkyChimp

http://pages.prodigy.net/4parks/_uimages/japsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 12:12 AM
Chimpman, that is just too flippin cool!

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 12:17 AM
yeah, japanese aircraft are very cool /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

---------------------------------------



under 30k?

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 12:21 AM
Neat how the nose on the Betty revolves so the gunner can shoot up, down or to the sides, huh.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://pages.prodigy.net/4parks/_uimages/japsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 02:45 AM
The Japanese plane has no armor at all and looks like a sheet metal around ribs design.Was the betty made on purpose like this to be very manueverable?

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 02:48 AM
It had no armor. It was made like this to increase range. For its day, it was a very long range bomber.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://pages.prodigy.net/4parks/_uimages/japsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 02:57 AM
Hey SkyChimp, that was a nice pic with the partial cloud layer. I am not into better looking aircraft until they can model weather a alot better. I mean, you don't see much of the outside of your plane, yet you scan the sky and clouds like your life depended on it. I wish we could sim that better.