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View Full Version : Can Flight Simulation Games Ever Become Mainstream?



LuckyBoy1
05-21-2004, 10:05 AM

LuckyBoy1
05-21-2004, 10:05 AM

Udidtoo
05-21-2004, 10:18 AM
I think that its a combination of several factors. Patients being one.

I tried to teach my wifes cousin to fly FB, after finally getting him airborne He said now what?

I started to show him how to navigate and his remark was akin to " 20 minutes to destination? **** that noise"

The learning curve is also very steep. I forget that what has become second nature to me is a tad difficult if settings are all on.

Many people just want a game where the minute they spawn its instant mayham and carnage. That appeal is as lost on me as a flight simm junky as my love of flight is lost on the UR tourny, half-life,BF 42 crowd.

We are quite blessed to be such a small fringe group and have acess to such a darn fine game as FB/AEP

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

Xnomad
05-21-2004, 10:38 AM
No maybe more if arcade options are included but that still doesn't bring them in, I don't have a single friend who likes planes or plays flight sims, only FPS and RPGs.

Considering that you need a joystick already means you have to dedicate some hardware to just one game, so the question is do you like a game enough to get a joystick for it?

I don't understand that "messing with program files" you don't have to do that with FB think of CS and DOD the Half-Life mods. Before Steam was brought in people were tinkering and downloading files all the time, and still do and they are hugely popular games even on such an old engine as Quake II.

Most people who watch me fly ask me when the shooting will start and where is the action, they don't understand that I like to fly with difficult settings and try to pretend I'm really in a plane flying a real mission and I enjoy the suspense of flying around enjoying the scenery and searching for the enemy. I think having a healthy imagination is what most simmers need to immerse themselves and many people don't have the patience or imagination to do this.

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

Kasdeya
05-21-2004, 10:40 AM
I wanted to vote Luckyboy was an idiot http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif but I cose the audience choice.
I got my brother to fly around a lil bit once, he is into video games(legacy of Kain and nfs underground)but it was too boring for him. Think about it though. a dogfight no matter how awesome the fight is, its still slower than Halo and Socom. I hate playing FPS, partly because I suck at them, but I like to watch my bro play em. I wish I had eye hand coordination like he does. Simply WOW.

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Kasdeya
05-21-2004, 10:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Xnomad:
Most people who watch me fly ask me when the shooting will start and where is the action, they don't understand that I like to fly with difficult settings and try to pretend I'm really in a plane flying a real mission and I enjoy the suspense of flying around enjoying the scenery and searching for the enemy. I think having a healthy imagination is what most simmers need to immerse themselves and many people don't have the patience or imagination to do this.

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is one of my favorite things to do with this game. Agreed.

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ucanfly
05-21-2004, 10:54 AM
I'm afraid only died in the wool WWII flight fans will be interested with a game called IL2 in the states - (usual response - huh, what is an IL2?).

That being said although OLeg and company have done more for the WWII flightsim genre where the rubber meets the road (FMs authentic cockpits, damage modelling, CEM, etc), I'm afraid that this game falls short in one critical area very popular with the ADD crowd - atmosphere. IL2 does not really compete with the cinematic quality and atmosphere of many modern titles (and even some older combat flightsims like Janes WWII fighters), so it therefore appeals mainly to the hardcore fan that wants realism over Hollywood and production.

IMO Oleg should scratch up some money for a separate small team to work on this aspect (production and atmosphere) and see what the result is. PF should be a much more recognizable title in the states, so maybe that will help as well.

Since BOB will be a whole new engine they should completely rework the GUI (revolution not evolution), which is currently workable, but adds very little entertainment value, and consider enhancing the atmosphere and information in the briefing screens. Maybe too it would be nice to add some A/V stuff as (historical movies) that inform as well as entertain. Much room for improvement there.

They should decide to make BOB a true sim that is also entertaining. Making a hardcore combat sim like IL2 series that does not have fuel tank switching and does not include mixture controls for many popular aircraft (Auto mixture notwithstandiang) was a perplexing decision to me (admittedly maybe an engine limitation).

If BOB is to sell well it needs to have much better atmosphere and entertainment, near photorealism, scalability to allow noobs up to ultra hardcore, a revolution in FMs (not trains in the sky), and give a better sense of actually flying the real thing (cockpit perspective and more detailed CEM). If it does these it will not necessarily become "mainstream" like DOOM, but it will attract more people to the title, and maybe even inspire more people's interest in flight simming and history.

arcadeace
05-21-2004, 11:04 AM
I think its always gonna be a niche community. A lot of valid points have been made here, its much more than buying a game going for instant excitement...much more. This forum does attract new members but it seems most have previous flight sim experience.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/222_1082457373_222_1082441075_airaces.jpg

CDN_Merlin
05-21-2004, 11:17 AM
Problem with most gamers today is this, if they can't play the game with all feaures within 1-2 hours, they will not want to learn it.

IL2 takes weeks of playing to be able to play properly. THis is to long for the FPS crop of gamers.

Beta tester for:
C&C Generals, Independance War 2,Starfleet Command 2,Settlers IV,Tzar,Allegiance,Starfleet Command,MAX 2,Defiance

LuckyBoy1
05-21-2004, 11:21 AM
Ok, great... we've fingered out the kids won't play it. What about all the millions of real life pilots and pilot wannbes that can't afford the rich mans' hobby? Why doesn't the game sell to that crowd?

Consider that when voting please! excuse me while I go vote for the last option http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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Luckyboy = Senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11 & Contributing Editor to Complete Users magazine.

georgeo76
05-21-2004, 12:03 PM
I think it's a little of "all of the above", 'cept maybe Lucky is an idiot http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I'm glad the audience is a little targeted though. I learn a lot about WWII by lurking here.

The_Red_Spoon
05-21-2004, 12:25 PM
You need to have a borderline unhealthy in WW2 aircraft to fall in love with this game, which is why it might never have broad appeal; it's also very difficult and has a steep learning curve.

It isn't the only game in this situation; I just hope that non-franchise games (i.e. not the Unreals, Dooms, and Half Lives of this world) remain financially viable.

raaaid
05-21-2004, 01:53 PM
if they wanted to sell as much as half life-counterstrike they should do what valve did:

first promote the piracy of the product to have more people playing online (the more people online the more appeal to the game)

second i would make it as real life as posible

third i would not listen to newbees who complain about the litle power of their weapons or that the planes stall too easy or that they cant recover from a stall or that using the trim is cheat. This is a simulator not a game

i would listen to people who had previous experience with other simulators and complain about the bars of the cockpit or the stall and flying model

i would integrate roger wilco into the game

i would bet for just one product other else i would split the online comunity into diferent games

i would make an adrenalin producer game like was european air war or the old il2(boy do i miss the times when i had to pull the joystick to the exact spot and at the same time use the trim and the mouse)

european air war was so much better for producing adrenalin i remember a guy saying he was afraid of getting a heart atack because of that game

BaldieJr
05-21-2004, 02:00 PM
Everything old is new again. Live long enough and you'll know it.

At one time, flight sims dominated the gaming market. Expect it to happen again, especially with all thats going on now.

The FB franchise is about to blow way up in popularity. Be sure.

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nickdanger3
05-21-2004, 02:03 PM
I think that highly realistic combat flight sims are cursed to always be a niche market. The analogy I'd draw is that of civil war reeenactors - there just isn't gonna be a huge interest in recreating historical events, though the people who are into it are INTO IT BIGTIME.

Teufel_Eldritch
05-21-2004, 02:06 PM
If it werent for Il2 & IL2FB there wouldnt be near as many sim fans online. IL2 & IL2FB really opened the door to flight sims. ILFB is the Counter Strike(Half Life mod) of the flight sim world. Loved by many, hated by many, with a huge community & responsible for bringing more gamers not only to this specific genre but also to gaming in general.

Whether you like the IL2 family or not you have to realise the effect that they have had on not only the simming community but the gaming community as a whole.

IL2 & IL2FB are the most played sims of all time. No other sim has EVER came close.


*This post IS NOT a rabid fanboy statement. I personally dont think FB is gods gift to man but I do find it tremendously fun.

YANKEE ROSE
-----------
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v57/Teufel_Eldritch/Avatars%20Sigs/lw2.jpg

JG52Uther
05-21-2004, 02:34 PM
Well,being a huge fan of WW2 aircraft is what did it for me.i think it will always be a niche thing,and also an expensive one.i have just spent upwards of 300 on upgrades (9800pro and some more ram)just to get the game at a good level.god knows what will happen when BoB comes out.then again,i think PF and BoB will get more interest in their particular parts of the world (the states for PF ,Europe for BoB)but mainstream popular?unlikely.

Monty_Thrud
05-21-2004, 02:48 PM
I remember reading an article in PC Gamer about the different genres of games and apparently Flight Sims used to be one of the most popular types years ago (dont ask me when)...according to PC Gamer it was a favourite with Dads who wanted to be an Ace in their childhood dream Warbird but then the kids took over and they just were'nt exciting enough, i still believe this type of flight sim is for your more mature personage and those wanting a slice of history

Personally i believe the way Oleg is going ,is definately the right way...combine accurately detailed models(cockpits are just as important) with accurately detailed flight characteristics add to this the stunning sounds that they made(this is very important aswell, although lacking in IL2FB), also stunning damage modelling and a realistic as possible environment...ground detail,sea,rivers, weather ,clouds etc(this is also very important,considering this is what your staring at most of the time)...i believe it is only the computer holding flight sims back,i still believe it will possibly be 10 to 20 years before we get that CGI look...but i remember one of the first sims i played CFS1, i thought even then it looked terrible...but i had lots of fun with it...now im having loads of fun with great graphics...and possibly the most important thing is that it feels like your flying...things can only get better http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

edit: i must also add the community is extremely important to the flight sim genre...helping those rookies(n00bies) when flying online and answering the same old questions in forums helps immensely...word of mouth is the best recommendation possible http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
http://www.uploadit.org/bsamania/Huzzy_no_ordnance03.jpg
"#2 Attack that ship".."#1..with what?".."#2 your ordnance DAMMIT!".."#1 my ordnance is in Olegs office, same place yours is".."#2 we'd better learn German then"

[This message was edited by Monty_Thrud on Fri May 21 2004 at 02:05 PM.]

I.GJ53Hoepner
05-21-2004, 05:20 PM
In my opinion the problem of these kind of games is the same that afflics the strategic wwII games also(especially the turn based ones).Most of them are really really well made,but there are very few people who are really interested in wwII. The same for IL2. I tell u: i wasn't a fan of flight sims.Never flew before IL2. It's just because of my great passion for wwII that i gave a try to a wwII flight sim,and now i cannot stand away from it.
But as said before this game needs patience and passion. I tried to involve many friends of mine with IL2. They say: "cool,yeah,it's a good feeling to fly"...but then they want action,they want something that can be understood in few hours...and that's all.

http://forum.m4d.sm/attachment.php?s=&postid=6235247

HoosBB
05-21-2004, 05:52 PM
None of those are the reason. The reason is the game isn't advertised. The audience is out there, it just hasn't seen the light. How would you know AEP even existed if you don't follow flight simming? The game isn't even carried at my local Best Buy or Circuit City. I had to order it online. Also, when's the last time you saw adds for IL2 on Gamespot or Gamespy, or even a mention of it in a gaming magazine. How about never. The only successful games today are ones that are heavily advertised or have some rediculous brand/celebrity attached to them. IL2 is not un-appealing to teenagers. I picked the original IL2 up back when I was 13. I had never picked up a FS but I was an FPS/Sh'mup junkie. I was flying on full real by the end of the night. Haven't stopped playing since. I've show several of my peers the game and they've ran out to buy a HOTAS and a copy right afterwards. By simply walking them through the basics one of my friends successfully took off, shot down a couple of jerry cans, and landed on full real on his second try. Before the game I had no interest in WWII or history in general. Now I can't stop reading about the subject. WWII has become an obsession to me. I find myself correcting my social studies teacher all the time. Sorry if this is poorly written, I've been cramming for finals 8 hours now. I still got a couple more to go. See ya'll later.

Bearcat99
05-21-2004, 06:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Everything old is new again. Live long enough and you'll know it.

At one time, flight sims dominated the gaming market. Expect it to happen again, especially with all thats going on now.

The FB franchise is about to blow way up in popularity. Be sure.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Although I do think that FB will blow up .. I dont think sims will become a big thing except fo people like us. Arcade style flyers? Absolutely... once one comes along to capture the imagination... but as far as a realistic.... historically accurate..with as accurate as possible FMs & DMs.. something like FB... it will never "catch on" with the masses. Especially not in the world we live in today. Even FPS...... they are big now for sure but a historically accurate WW2 FPS? Call of Duty not withstanding ... it's a niche market. FarCry will outsell COD. Face it guys..... and dont be modest. We are a different lot. WW2 flight simmers.....real simmers..... not WW2 gamers... are a different lot. We look for accuracy... we want realism..... we who fly this sim revel in the fact that for most of us our first attempt at taking off ended in a crash. Maybe the second and third as well... we revel in it because we have mastered it. For a gamer...it is too "boring".. time for some thing else.... This is what seperates many of us from gamers. The simmer wants to master the plane...... to survive the mission..... to best his enemy. The gamer wants to rack up points-and do it as quickly and easily..meaning having the fastest most maneuverable plane with the biggest guns-as possible. Man's fascination with flight goes waaaaayy back... There will always be flight games..... and hopefully there will always be flight sims..... and the simmers will always flock to the sims. The gamers? Well..... you all know the deal... or you would be "gaming" instead of "simming. Hopefully... and for a long long time.... they will be made by 1C and made to the high standars of FB and reflect the ever growing processing power of PCs.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | IL2 Manager (http://www.checksix-fr.com/bibliotheque/detail_fichier.php?ID=1353) | MUDMOVERS (http://magnum-pc.netfirms.com/mudmovers/index.htm)

USE THAT X45 STICK AS A BUTTON BAY!

HoosBB
05-21-2004, 06:07 PM
P.S. Due to you cheap bastard's disdain for paying education taxes I never learned to use paragraphs. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Chevello
05-21-2004, 07:06 PM
That would be "bastards' "

You are welcome. We are just cheap, not unwilling to help.

Please fogive if a new user pops in, but I had to vote on this one. I went for the "There just isn't the audience" option. I just don't see much interest in these sorts of games. Not even in the "real" flight sim community. You see, I work for a company that produces military and commercial flight simulators (centrifuges, motion based flight trainers, etc.)and am the ONLY person out of probably a couple hundred that actually plays with these things when I get home. Not even the pilots that I meet seem to be very interested in them. To the pilots, going flying is like going to work.

It seems that most people wouldn't even WANT to understand what flying is all about, they just want "look left look right, there's a badguy pull the trigger where's the next one" Pus, as others have said, there is a commitment to mastering the aircraft and one's self that is required to sit here for hours at a time, crashing planes until you are good enough to actually remain in the air for more than a few minutes. It isn't about having the quickes reactions in a room, or about having a fast connection, but about maneuvering against an opponent sometimes for several minutes just to get in a snapshot that MIGHT cause enough damage to allow you another shot. The "gamer" games don't seem to have a whole lot of leaning how to walk around in them.

Just my 0.03USD

K

HoosBB
05-21-2004, 08:06 PM
"bastards'"
...that was intentional http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

wayno7777
05-21-2004, 08:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HoosBB:
None of those are the reason. The reason is the game isn't advertised....I picked the original IL2 up back when I was 13...Haven't stopped playing since. I've show several of my peers the game and they've ran out to buy a HOTAS and a copy right afterwards. By simply walking them through the basics one of my friends successfully took off, shot down a couple of jerry cans, and landed on full real on his second try. Before the game I had no interest in WWII or history in general. Now I can't stop reading about the subject. WWII has become an obsession to me. I find myself correcting my social studies teacher all the time. Sorry if this is poorly written, I've been cramming for finals 8 hours now. I still got a couple more to go. See ya'll later.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right here is the answer. I've loved airplanes since I've been old enough to remember. HoosBB hit the nail on the head. By the time I was 9 or 10 I was getting into warbirds. I've mentioned elsewhere that I saw Battle of Britain in the theater when it came out in 1969. I was 11. The younger players need to see the game. Without exposure, just us older guys will be the ones buying and playing the games.
HoosBB says that he's gotten other teens interested. Show it to the masses and who knows how the popularity will go. With so many different genres out there, the ones you hear about are the ones that sell. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that you have got to start 'em young.

World War Two Weekend June 4-6, 2004 Reading, PA
Over 70 planes including a P-38 (hopin' for GG)
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/wayno77-bluesclues3a.JPG

Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

609IAP_Recon
05-21-2004, 08:50 PM
Maybe if they start including some modes of play

Salute!

IV/JG51_Recon

http://www.forgottenskies.com/jg51sig2.jpg

Covino
05-21-2004, 09:05 PM
I think people enjoy to play games they can easily become good at. Flight sims don't fall into that category. It can take weeks to get the basics of air combat down but it could take years to become an ace. Most gamers (kids nowadays) don't have this patience.

nearmiss
05-21-2004, 09:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuckyBoy1:
With IL-2 FB, we finally get a game that isn't so arcade like as to completely laugh at the idea of calling it a "flight simulation". When I first looked at it, I thought it was odd not to have a Spitfire or P-51 or even some decent models of the P-39 that we shipped to the Russian front in mass quantity. Still, I was hungry enough for a "real" flight simulation game to buy it at the full, retail price. When ACE came out, I thought there'd be more interest in the game. After all, more choices should equal more interest. Over the Easter holiday, I sat a nice young man who's dating my daughter down at the computer to try IL-2 FB ACE. He really liked video games, but after trying to get him to play it for 10 minutes, it seemed painfully clear he wasn't about to pay attention or use something that didn't have warp speed or majic powers. This confirmed my belief that for the most part, "gamers" are not the audience who will pay full retail price for a given flight simulation game. This leaves an audience of people actually interested in aircraft... real aircraft. I doubt they ever sold at full retail a number of units equal or greater than the number of pilots in the U.S. alone, so what's the problem here? Why does a great game remain obscure? Even with the promise of Pacific whatever and Battle of whatever, I doubt any of these games will come close to flying off the store shelves. Here's some possible problems. Which one do you think is the stumbling block to seeing the genre sell at a rate corresponding to the respect we all think this game deserves?

Solutions for internet security & spyware problems... http://www.geocities.com/callingelvis911/s_s.html

Luckyboy = Senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11 & Contributing Editor to Complete Users magazine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The WW2 CFS have a viable market. More and more adults with strong interests in aviation and aerial combat are taking up computer simming.

I think the future might be in the game production of a basic package with refinements and add-ons geared towards the things different type of users are interested to have. I personally hate the lack of a sensible navigation system. Complex engine management, however doesn't interest me that much. CME does have a strong interest for others. I'm just saying there are elements that could be add-ins that some users would prefer and others could care less to have them.

More high quality maps are of interest to me along with an improved FMB. I'd be pleased to pay for an add-on that included those items with NO NEW AIRCRAFT as part of the package.

I do think a there is a strong interest in missions built by humans, and there a a lot of users that would enjoy mission building with the proper tool kit.

Flight simulation per an IL2 without addressing some specific areas will never put this game into a true flight simulator category. It's not even close, but has possibilities.

Regardless, right now it's the best available.

-----------------------

http://avsims.com/portal/modules/liens/images/banner.gif (http://avsims.com/portal/)

Hawg-dawg
05-21-2004, 09:29 PM
There are a gazillion flight sims out there......

Most are for pilot practice and training,ifr,navigation,ect,ect
UPS pilots from what I understand are required to log a certane amount of online sim flight. LOL


Alot of pc modelers out there as well......
This is a cool magizine, has a bunch on flight simms and products http://www.pcpilot.net/

IL2 is a sim Game..... I love it....
I dont think it will outsale Halo II. I have 10 differnt sims . All but 1 collect dust.

AKA Bad-MF(Mongral Fighter).... Member... Kelly Johnsons SKUNK WORKS
Sucka Free since 1969..... Fatboys Forever

Hawg-dawg
05-21-2004, 09:35 PM
I almost forgot...
I did look at the LuckyBoy option BUT, Your OK no matter what you say . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

AKA Bad-MF(Mongral Fighter).... Member... Kelly Johnsons SKUNK WORKS
Sucka Free since 1969..... Fatboys Forever

Korbelz
05-21-2004, 09:52 PM
ok..i didn't read all the post here, but i can see what people are saying. just come out and say it..we are better than your avg joe that plays video games, we have (on avg) better computers, more money to spend(joysticks, etc), older, smarter(how can i beat this 109 when he has the alt and speed on me in a hurricane), and most of all more patience(sp).

above all we love airplanes and flying....it seems easy for us to land a 109 with half your rudder gone, a huge hole in your wing and oil all over your windscreen. but i promise you this(note: more 109 pilots died in training/landing there planes then in combat) a RL 109 pilot in WW2 would have propably bailed out before even thinking of landing that airplane(not all)...how do you think a avg. CS noob thinks of this game?

rastus_555
05-22-2004, 01:19 AM
My answer to the original post:
No.
Why?
Because the underlying THEME of any simulation is to accurately (to varying levels)recreate a real life event, whether it be a current day event, or a historical one. The people that are going to be interested in this genre fall into one (or both) of two categories:
a. They wan't to recreate a particular historical event (e.g WWII) which they weren't around for, but which they have an interest in. Most people that fall into this category also have an underlying interest in general history as well.
b. They wan't to simulate a current day, real life event, which they have little or no hope of ever fulfilling (e.g fighter pilot, astronaut, F1 race driver).

On the other hand, most FPS's, RPG's, etc that sell sqillions try to create an event which is not real and could never happen, except for in a game (or movie, eg HALO, Warcraft, HL).

It is simply a matter of finding out what is more appealing to popular culture. Fact or fantasy? To do this, simply compare the bok sales of J.K Rowling (author of Harry Potter) and Tom Clancy. Although Mr Clancy sells quite a few, I think Ms Rowling wins (by a hell of a lot) in the sales figures.

So there you have it. People don't buy Flight sims in the same numbers as fantasy games, because they want to be transported AWAY from real life.

What about games like 'Freelancer' I hear you ask. Well that is just a fantasy RPG game with all the boredom and repitition of flight sims rolled in. The only reason it might sell a few units is becasue it's backed by a heavyweight (M$). Of course like any product (and I mean ANY product, from cars to ab-blasters), whether it sucks or it is pure gold, it is not going to be successful unless it is marketed properly. Most flight sims like IL2, are not. No. 1 question asked by non-IL2er's? "what's an IL2". For this reason alone, "Pacific Fighters" may do a bit better.

Oh yeah, for the record, I fall into category a. and b. above.

cheers, rastus

Aaron_GT
05-22-2004, 02:05 AM
With Xbox2 FB could have an extended life, but it might need a change in the pay model. E.g. a free trial version that expires after a month. Something a bit more than a demo, but less than the full product, simply to make it more download friendly, and with both offline and online components. You could then probably hook enough people to make it worth distributing (by post) a full version on a single DVD.

This wouldn't work for an offline shooter (people lose interest in those in about a month) but would probably work for FB. The barrier to trying it would be low. As a download distribution costs of the trial would be low too.

05-22-2004, 07:47 AM
To be honest guys, from where Im standing, I have yet to see, this series of 1c Air Combat Sims take a backward step.

They just get even better as they go, and since the early days of Il-2, we have watched the World wide following grow on these forums.

I think 1C pretty well own this area of the market place gobaly.

S!