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View Full Version : Should we be able to kill civilians in freeroam?



SixKeys
06-27-2015, 12:47 AM
Honestly, killing civilians has never been a top priority to me, so I don't really care if we ever get that feature or not. I was just thinking that technically everything you do in freeroam isn't actually part of the ancestor's memories. Only actual missions count as reliving ancestral memories. The inbetween stuff (fast-travel, chasing collectables etc.) is just the person in the Animus/Helix roaming around in virtual reality until he finds a sync point to begin exploring new memories.

So why do we get the warning "your ancestor did not kill civilians" during freeroam? It should only come up during missions. AC1 allowed the player to kill civilians indiscriminately after fully synching with Altaïr. This makes sense because no memories were being recorded anymore.

I-Like-Pie45
06-27-2015, 12:58 AM
does it even still say your ancestor

because of floating tablet guy & faceless helix user & such & such

Shahkulu101
06-27-2015, 01:01 AM
I think we should be. As you say, everything we do in free roam isn't part of the ancestors memory - including killing hundreds of guards for fun - and that's something Assassin's definitely wouldn't do but that we as the player get away with. If we don't get desynchronized for doing that, basically killing innocent guards (it's justified during missions - to the Assassin's anyway), then we shouldn't be desynchrozed for killing civilians IMO as it's really not all that different.

VestigialLlama4
06-27-2015, 08:42 AM
Absolutely Not.

The point is that the AC games pivot on social stealth, hiding in the crowds. The crowds, the NPCs on the streets are your friend, who you are protecting against the corrupt authority figures and who, it is implied, protect you by not finking you to the cops and generally looking the other way when you go to a hiding spot. They are your collaborators and allies.

So for me on a gameplay, story, aesthetic and yes ethical perspective, killing civilian NPCs in any AC game doesn't work on any level nor is it necessary at all. Guards are fair game as I have argued before.

D.I.D.
06-27-2015, 12:34 PM
No. I disagree that the freeroam is not meant to be the ancestor's memory too, but whether it is or not is irrelevant. This game is only dressed up as a simulation, and it exploits the best parts of the conceit that it is a simulation to get you to behave in certain ways.

When other games were still struggling with the old invisible wall cliché, AC turned it on its head by making that wall visible (and even aesthetically attractive) by use of its simulation pretence. When other 3rd person open world crime games had to accept that their players would use them as mayhem sandboxes, AC used the simulator excuse to firmly say "no" -- not truly because of the simulation idea, but because the makers wanted to be very specific about who your character is. I think that was a huge strength, too. While other open world violent games tended to struggle to make their characters feel established and not simply vehicles for action, AC was putting a solid foundation under its protagonists.

Ultimately, the game will have you kill vastly more people than the same story would require of its central woman/man in a movie version, so it's already got a problem with maintaining the "assassin" theme. An assassin must be selective in his/her killing, therefore the design must restrict those kills as much as possible. If your main person was simply a murder machine who occasionally calmed down enough to take on a mission, or had some weird restrictions slapped down for a temporary period, the game would feel very strange to everyone and probably just as frustrating to the people who'd like to go on killing sprees.

Pandassin
06-27-2015, 12:36 PM
Well in the E3 demo Jacob literally ran over a child with a carriage so I guess you can, or at least on a carriage you can.

I'm not fussed about killing civilians, they never really give me a reason to kill them :P

Deezl-V
06-27-2015, 02:10 PM
No. Should not kill innocents. Remember when we could? Remember when we were chasing someone and we want to assassinate an enemy but the game somehow killed a civilian instead that was close by? It makes for frustrating gameplay, just like auto climbing when holding down sprint. So it should not be brought back.

SixKeys
06-27-2015, 07:47 PM
Like I said before, it's not like I really want the feature. I was just thinking about it from a lore perspective. Unity made it clearer than ever (by making Bishop talk to us in every co-op mission) that during freeroam we are officially just a player hooked up to the Helix and all the messing about isn't necessarily canon while Arno's memories are.

If it's the whole moral/ethical perspective of assassins not wanting to kill innocents, then why did they specifically allow for that in Rogue? Shay's entire face-heel turn was inspired by his concern for innocent civilians who have to suffer in the crossfire between assassins and Templars. Protecting civilians was his life's mission. So naturally, they made Rogue the only game where it's totally acceptable for the protagonist to kill innocent people. Wait, what? :confused:

That means the ethics angle isn't a sound excuse because it doesn't make sense from a story/lore perspective anymore. Maybe it used to but social stealth has been all but gone for several years now, replaced by vanilla stealth.

I-Like-Pie45
06-27-2015, 08:22 PM
its funny because haytham was a templar and he couldn't kill people but shay can

Xstantin
06-27-2015, 08:44 PM
its funny because haytham was a templar and he couldn't kill people but shay can

cause Shay is special
seriously though, I don't see a problem with it. Make them collapse into small Animus pieces or something cause they're pretty much moving hiding spots who get in your way anyway

GunnerGalactico
06-28-2015, 08:54 PM
technically everything you do in freeroam isn't actually part of the ancestor's memories. Only actual missions count as reliving ancestral memories. The inbetween stuff (fast-travel, chasing collectables etc.) is just the person in the Animus/Helix roaming around in virtual reality until he finds a sync point to begin exploring new memories.

So why do we get the warning "your ancestor did not kill civilians" during freeroam? It should only come up during missions. AC1 allowed the player to kill civilians indiscriminately after fully synching with Altaïr. This makes sense because no memories were being recorded anymore

That makes a lot of sense. Personally, I have never felt the urge to kill civilians. However, once you are done with reliving the ancestor's memories, there shouldn't have to be a notification telling about ancestors not killing civilians. Technically, you cannot be reliving your ancestor's memories when the Animus session is complete and when you are just free-roaming only.

LoyalACFan
06-28-2015, 09:53 PM
No. It's a dumb feature. In something like GTA that's all about creating carnage and pulling off crazy crimes it's fine (almost necessary actually) but here it's got no purpose. It's supposed to be an Assassin simulator; the mechanics should reflect that.

And like someone else said, it was frustrating as hell in the Ezio/Altair games when you were chasing a target and the protag would like leap sideways to stab a civilian unless you manually locked onto your target.

dxsxhxcx
06-28-2015, 10:34 PM
Since synchronization between the animus user and ancestors' memory isn't an issue anymore (what IMO is a shame) I don't see why we shouldn't be able to do as we please.

Aidiexx
06-28-2015, 11:24 PM
I am pretty much 50/50 on this. I'm against it because I believe it could get irritating from a game play perspective, for example if you try and assassinate a guard but you accidentally kill the poor woman stood next him.

on the other hand if they did something like a GTA styled wanted system (A bit like what they did with AC: Rogue, where you could kill civi's but then you got on foot bounty hunters who were damn annoying to kill, chasing you).

LoyalACFan
06-29-2015, 05:41 PM
on the other hand if they did something like a GTA styled wanted system (A bit like what they did with AC: Rogue, where you could kill civi's but then you got on foot bounty hunters who were damn annoying to kill, chasing you).

That's something that I never want to see in an AC game unless they go the Black Flag route again with a random criminal who becomes an Assassin over the course of the game. In GTA you play as a scumbag murderer who does whatever they want, so a police/wanted mechanic makes sense. But in AC, you're supposed to be playing as a principled soldier who only kills his enemies. This series should never turn into anything resembling a historical GTA IMO (even though that seems to be the direction they're heading in, sadly).

I-Like-Pie45
06-29-2015, 06:39 PM
That's something that I never want to see in an AC game unless they go the Black Flag route again with a random criminal who becomes an Assassin over the course of the game. In GTA you play as a scumbag murderer who does whatever they want, so a police/wanted mechanic makes sense. But in AC, you're supposed to be playing as a principled soldier who only kills his enemies. This series should never turn into anything resembling a historical GTA IMO (even though that seems to be the direction they're heading in, sadly).

its only what the people want