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johnwyp
08-03-2004, 08:58 AM
So I have a problem with turning....more specifically, turning during combat where I need to turn quickly. EVERY time I end up putting myself into a sping. And it doesn't matter what maneuver I try....combat turn: spin, split-s: spin (most of the time), bank: spin, blink/sneeze: spin. You get the picture.

I brought it up in game, and someone told me to watch my speed...to keep it up. I have noticed that I spin in three situations: high speed (400+) turning or ANY change of control surface (rudder, elevator, aileron), low speed (~250 or so) turns, and last night I spun every time I jacked my throttle from like 60% to 100%.

The high speed I can picture in my head....too much wind so I need to not make such hard changes. I can control that. However, the low speed ones happen quite a bit while I'm flying in a dogfight, so I'm wondering....should I drop my flaps to combat once I get to about 270? Is the 320 knots number the "magic number" for all aircraft for desired maneuver speed?

The trottle problem I just don't get.....I don't know how the added torque from that throttle change could put me into a spin.

OH! Speaking of spins, I've found that I can get out of them in one of two ways 1) do nothing and wait...sometimes you can get lucky or 2) if #1 doesn't work in about 3-5 seconds try to throw the nose down to gain speed. Does this sound about right. I die most of the time I end up in a spin so there has to be another method out there....

You guys were right about this game...it is addicting.

johnwyp
08-03-2004, 08:58 AM
So I have a problem with turning....more specifically, turning during combat where I need to turn quickly. EVERY time I end up putting myself into a sping. And it doesn't matter what maneuver I try....combat turn: spin, split-s: spin (most of the time), bank: spin, blink/sneeze: spin. You get the picture.

I brought it up in game, and someone told me to watch my speed...to keep it up. I have noticed that I spin in three situations: high speed (400+) turning or ANY change of control surface (rudder, elevator, aileron), low speed (~250 or so) turns, and last night I spun every time I jacked my throttle from like 60% to 100%.

The high speed I can picture in my head....too much wind so I need to not make such hard changes. I can control that. However, the low speed ones happen quite a bit while I'm flying in a dogfight, so I'm wondering....should I drop my flaps to combat once I get to about 270? Is the 320 knots number the "magic number" for all aircraft for desired maneuver speed?

The trottle problem I just don't get.....I don't know how the added torque from that throttle change could put me into a spin.

OH! Speaking of spins, I've found that I can get out of them in one of two ways 1) do nothing and wait...sometimes you can get lucky or 2) if #1 doesn't work in about 3-5 seconds try to throw the nose down to gain speed. Does this sound about right. I die most of the time I end up in a spin so there has to be another method out there....

You guys were right about this game...it is addicting.

carguy_
08-03-2004, 09:29 AM
It sounds like a control problem.Have you bought a joystick by any chance? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Really most of problems with control surfaces,shooting are joystick related.


Eitherwise you`re pulling too hard.
Check out other threads about controlling aircraft.There are tons of it.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

LilHorse
08-03-2004, 09:41 AM
First of all, here's the S.O.P. for getting out of spins:
Chop throttle, apply full opposite rudder to the spin ( that is if you're spinning left apply full right rudder and vice versa), push the stick full forward. When the spin stops take hands and feet off all controls and let speed build up and add throttle smoothly. This works for the typical nose-down attitude spin. If you get into a flat spin, first hope you have lots of alt. Then try anything: rudder against, rudder with, drop flaps, gear, chop throttle, boost throttle and then bail out http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif There may be somebody out there who's really good at getting out of flat spins (P-39 jocks?) who can better advise you.

As for why you get into spins in the first place, perhaps you need a smoother touch on your inputs. You can't just yank the stick and expect the plane to turn on a dime. These aren't jets, and you can stall those into spins too. Which brings up a point in the FM of this game, almost all stalls result in spins in this game. This is not the case in RL. In fact, in most RL flying situations (I'm told, since I'm not a pilot), in order to spin you must almost always actively induce one.

Anyway, try smoother more deliberate inputs. If after a good deal of practice you are still having problems then perhaps there is a calibration issue with your stick.

Taylortony
08-03-2004, 09:51 AM
do you use flaps in combat> try them they will increase your turn rate and delay the onset of spi, downer is they bleed off speed, but that can be a good thing in some situations, also if you have a stick you could tweak the settings so it is not as effective, but that can have a detriment to your flying as the stick it not giving full response.that make sense?

diomedes33
08-03-2004, 09:51 AM
Its hard to say without knowing what plane you are flying, but here's the basic idea. A spin is caused by inner wing stalling and the outer wing still has lift. If you have force feedback you can feel the air start to seperate around the wing. You can also see the screen start to shake a little and hear a blowing noise (buffeting). If you see these you're pushing the aircraft to hard, let off the elevator.

The thing that helps most with avoiding spins is rudder. Always apply opposite rudder to the aileron to keep the nose from dipping down. A good reference is the ball. It looks like a common everyday level you buy from the hardware store. Usually its on the slip indicator near the altimeter. Keep it inbetween the two lines and you'll be good. In combat though you usually looking at the bandit, so try to keep the nose of the plane pointing in the direction that it is traveling (not necesarily at the bandit).

To make a turn sharper you can try cutting throttle and dropping combat flaps, but this is generally a bad idea because you bleed so much energy.

The best way to out turn someone IMHO is to do a high yo-yo, you keep your speed gain energy and turn sharper. This is what I do if I want to turn with an enemy in a Fw-190.

For spin recovery this is the best way I've found.
First apply opposite rudder to the spin (this sometimes is enough)
If that doesn't work apply negative elevator (nose down) and cut throttle, some planes the engine torque makes it more difficult. Usually you'll be able to point the nose straight down and will recover.

In planes like the p39 and p63, this may not even work. This is because the center of gravity is pretty near the center of the wing. If this is your ride, more luck than anything will help you.

I fly FW-190s so I don't turn much in combat so maybe some of the other members that fly the better turners such as the Spitfires and La7s can post what they do in combat.


aka 3./JG51_Specter
http://www.public.asu.edu/~guthriec/ubi_sig.jpg

HART_dreyer
08-03-2004, 10:18 AM
Turning with a lot of elevator pressure is foolish in almost any situation.

Regards,
dreyer
the dreyer vs. Hartmann game! (http://www.dreyermachine.com/il2/)
"I'm an educated and certified idiot!"

LilHorse
08-03-2004, 10:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diomedes33:
The thing that helps most with avoiding spins is rudder. Always apply opposite rudder to the aileron to keep the nose from dipping down. A good reference is the ball. It looks like a common everyday level you buy from the hardware store. Usually its on the slip indicator near the altimeter. Keep it inbetween the two lines and you'll be good. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That may be the case if you're turning and on the edge of a stall and you're trying to avoid the stall/ spin. But don't confuse the guy. When turning you should apply rudder WITH the turn: right turn, right rudder and vice versa. This is basic coordinated turning and yes the slip/ skid indicator is supposed to help you in that. I say "supposed to" because I find the slip/ skid indicators to be a little dodgy in the game. Sometimes in normal coordinated turning it will indicate skidding. So, you may have to ease off on rudder application in order to keep the ball centered. That's the best we can do since we can't feel our pants cinching up one way or another to tell what's happening with our planes. Less realistic but less chaifing as well.

horseback
08-03-2004, 10:30 AM
There aren't a whole lot of monoplanes in this game that don't go into a spin if you move your stick too far too fast. Biplanes are far more forgiving, but a lot slower. Jerking around on the stick leads to stalling out, which leads to spins.

Very simply, you need to (assuming that you are using a joystick) go into the Inputs Menu and set your joystick sensitivities lower, and then practice. A lot. On one or two planes at most. Each aircraft in the game is different, and requires a different style of flying in combat.

Also, if your stick has the twist rudder (most do), you might pay a bit more attention to how you're applying rudder. Also, if you find yourself having to 'force' your nose down all the time, you might want to experiment with elevator trim. All of these inputs factor into your chances of entering a stall.

Mostly, though, it just takes time to learn to fly the planes in this sim. Even after two years of Il-2 & Forgotten battles, I still need to practice for a day or so in QMB or single missions when I switch from a 109 to a 190 offline campaign.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944