PDA

View Full Version : Thrusting



MisterWillow
06-19-2015, 08:48 PM
While I think we can all agree that the combat system looks more engaging and complex than most (if not, any) other melee games out there, I did notice that all the attacks seem to be slashing. What about thrusting?

I realise that the slashing motion is easier to read for a block, but that's one reason I think a thrust should be added to the move set, something to keep you on your toes. Another is that it could be used to close some distance, taking advantage of the body extension that goes into the motion. Say, if you run into someone who tries to stay just outside your swing arch. A quick thrust would close the gap, and could catch them off-guard.

There wouldn't even need to be any change to the combat system. Just add 'down' to the directions you can attack/defend. Right/left/up would be slashing, but rotate the right stick down, and attack, and you thrust. A light attack would be a half-extension, so you bend slightly at the waist, and a heavy attack would be a full extension, so you rotate slightly and lunge, taking advantage of the length your arm; extending range considerably.

Of course, should you miss, you would leave yourself open, but while I was watching the Masterclass on Twitch, Mr. Vandenberghe was talking about how much your location can change a fight---specifically how people would 'find a doorway' in certain situations---so if circumstances were such that you were on a narrow(-ish) bridge or a hallway, there would be a tactical advantage to using such a move.

Anyway, just a thought I had.

TrikRisk
06-19-2015, 10:05 PM
Yes yes yes, this is great. either it is high rewarding or really penalty-ing(?) for the guy who thrusts, imagine ou are running and you thrust for your enemy, that enemy could dodge and you fall off a bridge or strike you right away. really cool advantages for the thruster and advantages for the enemies.

Solid_Altair
06-21-2015, 11:32 PM
I had thought of a threeway parry system a while ago. It'd be horizontal, vertical and thrusting. Having said that, I'm more than happy with their design. Even in my own version the diagonal attacks would be missing. In this case, they should be incorporated into some finishing moves. And they're doing the exact same thing with thrusting. The Gameplay Trailer #1 ends with a thrusting finishing move.

Really nice thread. It certainly deserve replies. Thanks for putting it in your sig and giving me a chance to talk about this. Thrusting was like... the first thing that came to mind when I saw this game.

guest-7lONTXP5
07-09-2015, 11:18 PM
Especially wieldig a spear or a naginata and not be able to thrust would be strange... Ok It's not less strange with a sword but I hope you get it anyways :p

Havemercy87
07-10-2015, 12:13 AM
I like how you've considered the mechanics on it. You've got my support 100% we need to keep this thread alive

Havemercy87
07-10-2015, 12:20 AM
Especially wieldig a spear or a naginata and not be able to thrust would be strange... Ok It's not less strange with a sword but I hope you get it anyways :p

Judging from what the trailers show, I think the devs had plans to use the upward position as a thrust for the spears. It only makes sense in their current build.

I like the thrusting idea and downward position (sounds so explicit)

MisterWillow
07-10-2015, 01:39 AM
Thanks everyone for your support.


Especially wieldig a spear or a naginata and not be able to thrust would be strange... Ok It's not less strange with a sword but I hope you get it anyways :p

Judging from what the trailers show, I think the devs had plans to use the upward position as a thrust for the spears. It only makes sense in their current build.

That makes sense should they not have a dedicated thrust position, or maybe a spear would thrust no matter the position, just from a different angle. For something like a naginata or a halberd, though, left and right should be slashing attacks.


I like the thrusting idea and downward position (sounds so explicit)

I'm kind-of playing on that, but I also just tried to answer you without any innuendo and still failed. :p

Havemercy87
07-10-2015, 02:36 AM
Thanks everyone for your support.




That makes sense should they not have a dedicated thrust position, or maybe a spear would thrust no matter the position, just from a different angle. For something like a naginata or a halberd, though, left and right should be slashing attacks.



I'm kind-of playing on that, but I also just tried to answer you without any innuendo and still failed. :p

Bwahaha! Epic!

I think your idea should definitely be put in the game. Just saying

Solid_Altair
07-10-2015, 07:59 PM
That makes sense should they not have a dedicated thrust position, or maybe a spear would thrust no matter the position, just from a different angle.
Yeah... I was thinking the same thing. Iniatially I was like... no way they'll have spears in this system (much like I was with shields :nonchalance:). Then I thought... the high stance could be for thrusting. Then... all stance could be for thrusting. The starting position would be the cue. It could be a little harder to read, but I think it would be viable. It's important that the stance are very clear, though... ya know, full body stances, like the Warden's.

A stance like the Oni's wouldn't work for spears thrusting from the three angles. It'd be too hard to read.

Havemercy87
07-10-2015, 10:26 PM
Yeah... I was thinking the same thing. Iniatially I was like... no way they'll have spears in this system (much like I was with shields :nonchalance:). Then I thought... the high stance could be for thrusting. Then... all stance could be for thrusting. The starting position would be the cue. It could be a little harder to read, but I think it would be viable. It's important that the stance are very clear, though... ya know, full body stances, like the Warden's.

A stance like the Oni's wouldn't work for spears thrusting from the three angles. It'd be too hard to read.

Correct, it being to hard to read the angle would help mildly by the angle indicator of defender. But where I agree that should go, the side angles should be slashing as willow said to provide a better read of stance

guest-7lONTXP5
07-11-2015, 03:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0BgQTNOgr4&feature=youtu.be ... I want the overhead attack for pole weapons, so give us a fourth direction for thrusting^^ Would be interesting how good a Naginata could have done this because it's more specialised for cutting but not that broad.

Thodoras10
07-28-2015, 10:47 PM
Well thrusting in my opinnion will get the art of battle super complex and it will ruin the whole 3 options to hit idea and since the schematics for the controller are already out its unlikely that thrusting will be a part of the game.

Solid_Altair
07-28-2015, 11:39 PM
Is that your signature? Bit big, perhaps? :eek:

MisterWillow
07-28-2015, 11:39 PM
Well thrusting in my opinnion will get the art of battle super complex and it will ruin the whole 3 options to hit idea and since the schematics for the controller are already out its unlikely that thrusting will be a part of the game.

I think that's the biggest (and most understandable) reason for thrusting to not be in there.

In terms of mechanics, I don't think it complicates things too much. It would just be another thing in your repertoire that could make for more varied fights, and an additional bit of strategy. I also think that the extra range gained by a thrust would balance out my how easy it would be to avoid, which would play into the immediate setting of any given duel. If you're in an open field, for example, a thrust might not be the best attack to make, since your opponent could easily dodge, leaving you open. If, however, you encounter someone on a narrow bridge, or in a hallway, then it might be a better option, since there wouldn't be a lot of room to manoeuvre, especially if they're trying to stay out of your swing arch.

The stairwell in the gameplay walkthrough would be a perfect example.

http://i60.tinypic.com/10xbofl.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/21j20wo.jpg

Thodoras10
07-28-2015, 11:45 PM
Dude thrusting in the game would be a nice thing if everyone used swords but since there will be flails and maces and axes i doubt that the existance of thrusting in for honor is possible.

MisterWillow
07-29-2015, 01:11 AM
That's... something I hadn't considered. Maybe an alternate move? Hmmmmmmm............

Deadshot.
07-29-2015, 05:13 AM
An alternate move would work with flails and maces, etc... it could be almost like a weapon-uppercut perhaps.

MisterWillow
07-29-2015, 06:42 AM
I was thinking more of a sort of lunging frontal kick (the heavy attack would add a step, for the added range). It would have the same basic effect---and would leave you vulnerable in the same way--- but because there obviously wouldn't be the added length of a weapon, it would have a shorter overall reach.

premiumart
07-29-2015, 10:36 AM
Judging from what the trailers show, I think the devs had plans to use the upward position as a thrust for the spears. It only makes sense in their current build.

I like the thrusting idea and downward position (sounds so explicit)

How about we rename the game to Mount & Blade while we are at it?

Mount & blade has exactly this system, <- slash, -> slash, ^ Strike from above, v thrust. It worked, kinda. Online battles were pretty weird for my taste, they were hectic and often you didnt even know how your enemy killed you because it looked like you blocked etc.

Thrusting could maybe be added but i think its unlikely since they want to keep it simple so the system is easy to pick up and hard to master.

Thodoras10
07-29-2015, 01:58 PM
I simply cant understand why we still talk about adding something that is 100% unlikely to be added in the game cause the controller schematics are already out.

Havemercy87
07-29-2015, 05:01 PM
Hey all..
Got an idea for thrust position when playing with a shield/flail, since they will be together and I dont see a flail being on another class.
As the shield was used as a weapon itself at times and the Vikings used the shield edge alot as a bludgeon. I could see this position as a shield strike, causing damage, where a shield rush(discussed in another thread) would just cause stunning and no real damage. I'm also down for the flail making an uppercut. Either one would be a fine thrust position strike since thrusting with a flail would at best cause your adversary to drop his controller in a fit of laughter!

Also note, the controller schematics are not set in stone. I mean I'm positive the right analog stick will stay the guard directional, just as the the triggers will be the same and the 3 buttons that they have mapped currently. My point is, L1 and circle are still currently unused. I'm sure they will put some use to these, but it's these that say they still have work to do the controller.

At this point in development it would be most beneficial to reconfigure and put in a downward position, if they are opened to it.

Sorry I'm not sure of ways to incorporate this to dual and axe fighters.

MisterWillow
07-29-2015, 09:58 PM
How about we rename the game to Mount & Blade while we are at it?

Mount & blade has exactly this system, <- slash, -> slash, ^ Strike from above, v thrust. It worked, kinda. Online battles were pretty weird for my taste, they were hectic and often you didnt even know how your enemy killed you because it looked like you blocked etc.

From what I remember, Mount & Blade didn't have the lock-on mechanic, and blocking didn't rely on matching the direction of an incoming attack, it was more of a straightforward 'press the block button'.


Thrusting could maybe be added but i think its unlikely since they want to keep it simple so the system is easy to pick up and hard to master.

How does this conflict with that design philosophy? It's one more direction, one more attack, one additional bit of strategy.

It would be fairly easy to put in a myriad of additional things to complicate combat for the sake of having a bunch of different options. For example, why not add two different strikes, instead of one? Down could be an upward slash, a pommel strike, an uppercut, or a kick, and the thrust be R3 (clicking the stick, since that isn't used in the current controller layout). You could add a forward roll, or a lunge manoeuvre, with L1 (since that isn't used). You could get extremely complex, if you really wanted to.


I simply cant understand why we still talk about adding something that is 100% unlikely to be added in the game cause the controller schematics are already out.

I don't think it's 100% not-going-to-happen. Not unless the devs have seen the suggestion, seen the thread, and decided against it already; which would be fine, but there's been no indication that this is the case). I understand it's unlikely, considering they'd probably have to tinker with the programming a bit, and add some animations, but they're presumably still doing those sorts of things, which is why I made the suggestion a week after the announcement, to give them time to consider it.

Their projected release (from what I've heard from interviews) is early/first quarter 2016---so anywhere between January and March. There's three days (including today) left in July. That's 6-8 theoretical full months of development time, which seems like plenty of time to add something like this. It probably won't be in the beta, if it's present in the game at all, and I don't know how feasible it would be to patch the thrust in later (my guess is, not very, but regardless), but it's something I think should be there, for the reasons I've stated. If nothing else, it's an idea for the potential sequel to implement.


Hey all..
Got an idea for thrust position when playing with a shield/flail, since they will be together and I dont see a flail being on another class.
As the shield was used as a weapon itself at times and the Vikings used the shield edge alot as a bludgeon. I could see this position as a shield strike, causing damage, where a shield rush(discussed in another thread) would just cause stunning and no real damage. I'm also down for the flail making an uppercut. Either one would be a fine thrust position strike since thrusting with a flail would at best cause your adversary to drop his controller in a fit of laughter!

I had a conversation about shield mechanics with Solid_Altair a while ago HERE (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1183119-please-fix-the-UI!-and-other-general-critiques?p=10872409&viewfull=1#post10872409), and I think a shield-edge strike should just be the standard attack on the shield side---so, presuming they don't implement left-handed (mirrored) character models, when you attack 'left' with a shield-bearing Hero/class, you would attack with the edge of your shield. It's easier, faster, and more practical than swinging your weapon across your body to attack from that side.


Also note, the controller schematics are not set in stone. I mean I'm positive the right analog stick will stay the guard directional, just as the the triggers will be the same and the 3 buttons that they have mapped currently. My point is, L1 and circle are still currently unused. I'm sure they will put some use to these, but it's these that say they still have work to do the controller.

Exactly. I mentioned in another thread the lack of a dedicated 'switch target' button. I'm hoping they'll make that R3, so you don't have to take your hand off your guard direction.


Sorry I'm not sure of ways to incorporate this to dual and axe fighters.

I don't know if you saw it (on the previous page), but I proposed a kick for Hero/classes without weapons predisposed to thrusting attacks---maces, axes, etc. So, a light attack would be a slight lunge, and the heavy attack would be a light step forward and then a pronounced lunge. That way, you still get the basic 'thrusting' motion, just with a foot, and the same drawback, in that you leave yourself open if it misses. The only difference is that it has shorter range, but that could be said of a Hero/class with a sword vs a Hero/class with a pole-arm, and I think that would add more variety and strategy to a Hero/class choice.

Havemercy87
07-31-2015, 04:24 PM
I'm not sure I see a kick being an implemented strike. I would take it as a last choice to get the thrust option in there. I'd really like to see them put in underhanded attacks for those without compatible thrusting capabilities.

Dual swords of course could do a double thrust... I remember that post on the shield being used as the left attack now and yes I agree it would be more appropriate. So with that out, the only possible move when using a flail would be a underhand attack, they could make an uppercut as a hard hit and the quick one could be more of a toss, sending the flail straight out from an underhand, aiming for the midsection instead of the head.

Only thing I can think for axes is same method as swords, would just be more a blungeon thrust.

After rereading, I don't know, the kick seems plausible and I like the thought you've put into it. "If" thrusting comes out in the game and kicking was the alternative method for those without proper weapons, I'd be fine with it. Cheers mate

ir0n4ge
08-03-2015, 06:53 AM
Hi! First post. Should have prepared more but thread's dying, so here it goes.

I was thinking about it as a long range offence(thrust/dash attack) and a long range defense(back step&lunge). This way axes, swords, and spears all benefit from the extra move.
Kicking is awsome and axe-like brutal, but I'd like to see my Viking stomping in with an overhand blow. Steps forward indeed:)

Mechanics shouldn't be hard, just L3 while/before attacking to thrust and neutral dodge to backstep. Making it unblockable is fine. It's hard to use in close range and has a slight wind up, which is real enough. When attacks are dodged and don't connect, should stagger a bit, making it almost a magical block button.
Got the idea from the Demon's Souls series.

Both are low risk, high return, and have low possibility of succeeding. Just more options.
Beauty is that they punish each other and adds a whole new dimension to the 3way system(in limited ranges).

Hope to hear what you all think!

MisterWillow
08-04-2015, 11:44 AM
I was thinking about it as a long range offence(thrust/dash attack) and a long range defense(back step&lunge). This way axes, swords, and spears all benefit from the extra move.
Kicking is awsome and axe-like brutal, but I'd like to see my Viking stomping in with an overhand blow. Steps forward indeed:)

I think that, specifically, would work better as a heavy 'up' move.

As to the idea of the dash/thrust, I'm not sure how well the dodges are integrated into strikes---that is, whether or not you are able to press 'dodge' and then press 'attack' and have them basically chain together (it would make for some great counter-attacks)---so that might be possible already.


Mechanics shouldn't be hard, just L3 while/before attacking to thrust and neutral dodge to backstep.

Was that supposed to be R3? Because L3 is 'sprint'. If it was a mistype, then I'd be on the fence about it. R3 would be slightly easier to execute, but it could also be triggered accidentally during a high-tension situation. Down on the right stick seems more deliberate, and I think is accommodated more by their preexisting control scheme.


Making it unblockable is fine.

http://i.imgur.com/78lngCC.gif


It's hard to use in close range and has a slight wind up, which is real enough. When attacks are dodged and don't connect, should stagger a bit, making it almost a magical block button.
Got the idea from the Demon's Souls series.

Not quite sure what you mean here. Who is the missed attack staggering? Why would something that doesn't connect stagger anyone? What's the point of a magical block button (not sure what that means either). I've played the Souls games, and I'm failing to recall any of those effects on a missed thrust.

_________________________________

I've also noticed that people are at least a little conflicted on the idea of a kick, and I'm not sure if I'm being clear enough in how the kick would look, so to better illustrate what I'm imagining, I decided to, um... do some illustrations.

http://i57.tinypic.com/bje26p.jpg

The Light kick would be a sort of quick lunge forward, as seen here. Heel out, energy in the hips, delivered to the opponent's stomach. If you've ever seen SWAT teams breaching doors by kicking them, I'm imagining that in energy and basic look.

http://i62.tinypic.com/jptvfb.jpg

The Heavy kick would involve a slight step forward, followed by throwing the entire weight of the body into the kick, providing more range and energy. Perhaps landing a bit higher on the opponent's body

If that isn't convincing enough, then I support the uppercut manoeuvre. My reticence toward it stems from the fact that it could potentially have less range than a kick---simply by the natural motion of the arm---which was one of the main reasons for proposing the thrust in the first place. Maybe a thrust would work regardless of weapon (the bludgeoning thrust Havemercy suggested). The top of an axe head and the end of a mace would still hurt if you were hit with them, after all. Perhaps it could do reduced damage if you were using a weapon without a pointy end.

Thodoras10
08-04-2015, 04:28 PM
In my opinion the kick would make players feel like the enemy is going for a guard break and not a kick to damage

MisterWillow
08-04-2015, 06:55 PM
That depends on what the guard break looks like. If they look at least halfway different, it would be pretty easy to tell them apart.

You can see both the Oni and Warden guard breaking several times in this video (at around 5:20)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H52rACMIi5Q

Interesting thing about them is that they both involve a pseudo-uppercut manoeuvre. The Oni's is far more pronounced, and only the first one you see for the Warden looks like it---the others he does look like shoulder charges; maybe because he's dodging just prior, indicating you can chain dash/strike moves---but they both illustrate why I'm torn on the uppercut as a thrust replacement (limited range, because an effective uppercut involves a bent arm).

If all guard-breaks follow this example---and it would make sense if they did, to make a ubiquitous move like this easy to distinguish---then an axe/mace/flail wielder could shoulder-charge, uppercut, elbow strike, or something similar, meaning a majority of the energy---and therefore frontal motion---would be in the upper body, whereas with a kick, a majority of the energy would be in the lower body. The most obvious give-away in the example I provided is that the weapons are lowered to the side, to provide full leverage to the lower torso---a person wielding a pole-arm without a thrust, such as a Dane Axe, would draw it closer to the body than is practical for defense---while a shoulder charge/mild uppercut/elbow strike would keep the weapons up as much as possible, in front of the chest and face, to try and protect them from counterattack---the Dane Axe example would probably use the haft end of the weapon, which would add to its readability considerably.

ir0n4ge
08-04-2015, 07:16 PM
Thanks! You're like the celebrity around here, really appreciate your reply. Sorry for my English. I'll try to be more specific.
And also sorry for the long post. Got kinda feverish, it's For Honor not me.



Originally posted by MisterWillow
Not quite sure what you mean here. Who is the missed attack staggering? Why would something that doesn't connect stagger anyone? What's the point of a magical block button (not sure what that means either). I've played the Souls games, and I'm failing to recall any of those effects on a missed thrust.
I meant the attacker should stagger a bit when missing a thrust(like the halberds and axes in Souls), making them vulnerable to attacks.The window should be wide enough to utilize even after dodging.
As for the magical block button, It's from Emile Gauthier's article "FOR HONOR: THE ART OF BATTLE"(at official news), should have said something it. It's a "straightforward 'press the block button'" in your words.
Something that shouldn't be in the game, but it seems aiming the maneuver will be too obvious and easy to sidestep. It'll be there to punish players not paying attention to weapon range while changing stances.


As to the idea of the dash/thrust, I'm not sure how well the dodges are integrated into strikes---that is, whether or not you are able to press 'dodge' and then press 'attack' and have them basically chain together (it would make for some great counter-attacks)---so that might be possible already.
Probably not possible? That'll make dodging an upper compatible of blocking, and jeopardize the Art of Battle system. In the demos they seemed to have a chance blocking.
If there are ensured counters after dodging, limiting the situation seems to be important.


Was that supposed to be R3?
No, I meant L3. So it'll be a thrust/'sprint' attack. It'll be telegraphed so dodging should be easy, unless it's unexpected or the attacker is already advancing(like when the defender is deliberately taking steps back, readying a backstep&lunge).

About unblockable. More like un-parry-able?
Yes, it sounds outrageous, but it'll put everyone on the edge when there's a distance between players. Dodging will become more important. Feinting to thrust would be a strategy.
I've never practiced swordplay, but isn't thrusting risky and hard to block in reality?
But if it sounds stupid, I guess it could have the same effects as gaurd break instead. No need for extra block buttons this way.



Originally posted by Thodoras10
In my opinion the kick would make players feel like the enemy is going for a guard break and not a kick to damage
This could be solved by adding a HUD, maybe a red arrowhead(diamond) for thrusting?

MisterWillow
08-04-2015, 11:08 PM
I meant the attacker should stagger a bit when missing a thrust(like the halberds and axes in Souls), making them vulnerable to attacks.The window should be wide enough to utilize even after dodging.

Meh. The little bit of recovery time in the Souls games has always felt unnatural to me, as if it's there simply for punishing a miss, not because of the momentum of the weapon. A proper thrust with a pole-arm should be done with the arms and shoulders, not the entire upper body, to preserve balance and prevent the weapon's momentum to drag you along with it. The spear thrusts are better in form and function.

For Honor's combat seems to be a tad faster that the Souls series, too, so I think the very act of missing would leave you open to counter-attack.


As for the magical block button, It's from Emile Gauthier's article "FOR HONOR: THE ART OF BATTLE"(at official news), should have said something it. It's a "straightforward 'press the block button'" in your words.
Something that shouldn't be in the game, but it seems aiming the maneuver will be too obvious and easy to sidestep. It'll be there to punish players not paying attention to weapon range while changing stances.

Sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding, but this, combined with this:


But if it sounds stupid, I guess it could have the same effects as gaurd break instead. No need for extra block buttons this way.

makes it sound like you're proposing a dedicated 'block' button for countering a thrust. If that's the case, then we've already had a discussion about it HERE (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1211142-Auto-Block), and it was rather unpopular. I think tying it to weapon position, as I described, is easier in terms of use and mechanical understanding for the attacker and defender.

If that isn't the case, I went to the thread you referenced, read the article it linked to, and I'm not seeing what you're referencing. Could you quote something specific? Sorry again. :confused:


Probably not possible? That'll make dodging an upper compatible of blocking, and jeopardize the Art of Battle system. In the demos they seemed to have a chance blocking.
If there are ensured counters after dodging, limiting the situation seems to be important.

Even if they dodge, and then attack, as long as you match the direction they're attacking from, you'd still block it, so I'm not sure if it's a problem or not.

I put a video in the post above yours, which was taken on the show floor of random people playing, and there seemed to be a heavy amount of dodging and guard-breaks (and what appear to be dodge-attacks). Maybe the beta will reveal this to be a flaw and it will need some tweaking, but as I said, as long as you're defending appropriately, I'm not sure how much of a problem it is.


No, I meant L3. So it'll be a thrust/'sprint' attack. It'll be telegraphed so dodging should be easy, unless it's unexpected or the attacker is already advancing(like when the defender is deliberately taking steps back, readying a backstep&lunge).

That seems a bit... overwrought for such a simple manoeuvre. One of the samurai's 'up' strong attacks involves a step back, but that might be tied to a dodge-attack (like he dodged backward and the did a heavy attack). A heavy thrust could function the same way.


About unblockable. More like un-parry-able?
Yes, it sounds outrageous, but it'll put everyone on the edge when there's a distance between players. Dodging will become more important. Feinting to thrust would be a strategy.

I think part of the beauty of the Art of Battle system is that everything has more than one way of countering. Simple block/parry (by matching the direction of the attack) and dodging. Removing one of these, for even one move, I think dilutes the system.


I've never practiced swordplay, but isn't thrusting risky and hard to block in reality?

Not at all. It's probably the simplest attack to execute on the attacker's part, and a quarter-to-half-circle spin of the blade in any direction will easily deflect an attack. Connecting generally depends on accuracy and timing, similar to a jab in boxing. Of course, missing leaves an opening, but it's no larger an opening than is created by missing any other attack.

ir0n4ge
08-05-2015, 04:34 AM
Sorry, didn't see your post.
I guess I was trying to make thrusting something too special and complex. Hearing out your reasoning, it seems much more elegant and practical.

The 'magical block button' was a reference of how back stepping could combo into counters against attacks from all angles(including thrusting). By giving thrusting a long recovery time, back stepping would become the only way to execute a counter. Or so I believed.
The latter 'no need to add block buttons' was compared your proposal, not changing controller schematics seemed to be one of the advantages of my version.

The reason I was going so far with the dodging is because I thought if dodging were to be too useful, the 3way block&parry would be disregarded.
I saw your video, and although the dodging looked more useful than I had expected, so far the system seemed to be in balance. I was wrong.

I'm clearly not good at explaining myself, thank you for your patience.
And thank you for the video! Didn't know it existed.:)

MisterWillow
08-05-2015, 08:39 AM
I'm clearly not good at explaining myself, thank you for your patience.
And thank you for the video! Didn't know it existed.:)

Someone else posted it a couple weeks ago on another thread, and I think it is a better representation of what it's like to play than the E3 stage demo. Nothing against the actual demonstration or the walkthrough they posted after E3, of course, but you could tell---especially after seeing this one---that they were at least mildly choreographed, and a tad slow; which is fine, since their purpose is to introduce players to the mechanics and whatnot. This one feels a lot more hectic and chaotic, closer to how an actual battle would be. I was enticed by the footage Ubi released themselves, obviously, but this one got me a lot more excited.

And it's okay. As long as we understand each other eventually. ;)

waraidako
06-26-2016, 07:50 AM
I'll necro this, fine. It's still relevant.

We saw the shieldmaiden in the E3 demo this year using a spear. Now maybe that's just a singleplayer thing, but I hope not. Historically speaking the spear was the bread and butter of combat. And for good reason. It's simple and effective and requires fairly little training. After all, it's just a long stick with a sharp end. So if the spear is in the game, you'd need thrusting attacks as well. And even if it isn't, thrusting is a core part of combat, and should be in the game anyway.

Undeity
08-08-2016, 07:08 PM
This would also allow an easy way to incorporate blocking Orochi's counterattacks if Devs ever choose to go this route.

I guess I saw this thread and thought, "Why not mention this?"
So... I did.

ZenBearV13
08-16-2016, 07:16 PM
Thrusting happens. In the midst of attacking high, left or right, some attacks are slashes, some are bashes, some are thrusts. For Honor is not like War of Roses/Vikings or Mount&Blade where you have one attack per direction. In my opinion this is much better. I would not be averse to adding in a fourth direction (down) because I find it strange that the devs removed the "Fool's Guard (https://myarmoury.com/feature_arms_gls.html)" from the german longsword repetoir, but I'm not exactly begging for it either.

coma987
08-16-2016, 07:37 PM
Ahh, good old for honor community, bringing back posts from more than a year ago.

MathiasCB
08-17-2016, 03:04 AM
I'll necro this, fine. It's still relevant.

We saw the shieldmaiden in the E3 demo this year using a spear. Now maybe that's just a singleplayer thing, but I hope not. Historically speaking the spear was the bread and butter of combat. And for good reason. It's simple and effective and requires fairly little training. After all, it's just a long stick with a sharp end. So if the spear is in the game, you'd need thrusting attacks as well. And even if it isn't, thrusting is a core part of combat, and should be in the game anyway.

The pretty lady were able to thrust with her spear. Doesn't show in the official video but if you look around the other videos there is on the mission you can see her do a thrust. As I am currently on my phone and I don't know exactly which video, I can not give you a link to any good example.

I really hope that we'll get a class with a spear and shield. Would be super fun. With much thrusting included.

Never actually replied to the thread before, even though I've read it multiple times.

I support Viking bro.
I support thrusting.

MisterWillow
08-17-2016, 03:36 AM
Thrusting happens. In the midst of attacking high, left or right, some attacks are slashes, some are bashes, some are thrusts. For Honor is not like War of Roses/Vikings or Mount&Blade where you have one attack per direction. In my opinion this is much better. I would not be averse to adding in a fourth direction (down) because I find it strange that the devs removed the "Fool's Guard (https://myarmoury.com/feature_arms_gls.html)" from the german longsword repetoir, but I'm not exactly begging for it either.

That's true for the Kensei---displayed in the Saboru fight---but not for the Warden, Oni, or Raider.

I understand your point, that there is more variety in the overall attacks than if they stuck rigidly to slashes, and as an aside, I also understand they don't want to overwhelm people with such a control system as the Art of Battle with too many directions to worry about, especially for the introduction to a potential new franchise.

However, they needn't limit the downward stance to thrusts, as you said---the Fools Guard, for example, has upward swings incorporated into its attacks---plus, as pointed out earlier in the thread, it's difficult to make thrusting work with axes, or blunt weapons like the Shugoki's kanabo---and while it's obvious at this point that they aren't going to implement this idea, there's always the (potential) next game in the franchise. It could easily be the new addition to the combat that differentiates it from its predecessor.

SometimesITango
08-20-2016, 05:40 AM
I think this is a good chance to teach people about sword combat. You don't stand inside your opponent's attack range ever. You only enter their attack range when you are attacking. In this sense thrusting is totally fine because if you stand in the danger zone you should expect some penalties. As for readings, guys just keep in mind that people do thrust in side stances and it is not that hard to spot because it takes quite a lot of time to do that comparing to frontal thrusts. I don't think reading it would be a problem if they include some basic combat tutorials in game. Also, as far as what I've seen they are lacking a lot of middle stance advantages in game. For instance many Asian martial arts would reach their weapons out in frontal stance to keep opponents away once they think their weapons length has been revealed.