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jagdmailer
01-31-2004, 02:03 PM
Oleg,

Now that we are close to getting a flyable Bf 110C-4/B, would it be possible to ensure that the Zerstorer indeed has the DB601N engines @ 1200hp modelled instead of the DB601A @ 1100hp. Not clear in Il-2 object viewer. Earlier 1939/1940 Bf 110 had the DB601A, but by the time Barbarossa occured, most C-4/B had the DB601N engines.

Thanks,

JagdMailer

jagdmailer
01-31-2004, 02:03 PM
Oleg,

Now that we are close to getting a flyable Bf 110C-4/B, would it be possible to ensure that the Zerstorer indeed has the DB601N engines @ 1200hp modelled instead of the DB601A @ 1100hp. Not clear in Il-2 object viewer. Earlier 1939/1940 Bf 110 had the DB601A, but by the time Barbarossa occured, most C-4/B had the DB601N engines.

Thanks,

JagdMailer

JG53Frankyboy
01-31-2004, 07:16 PM
unfortunatly it looks like we are getting "only" the Bf110G2 - no Bf110C in sight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

nevertheless, im with you , the Bf110C4/B should get the Db601N - the Bf109E-7/B also ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[This message was edited by JG53Frankyboy on Sat January 31 2004 at 07:15 PM.]

Cossack13
01-31-2004, 07:59 PM
I am still bummed that we can't get an early war version of the 110!

I had heard that part of the problem was properly modelling the rear gunner. If true, I really wished the use the same solution they used for the Il-2 Field Mod.

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Whatever you do, do
NOT buy an Alienware!

butch2k
02-01-2004, 02:47 AM
Only 20 Bf 110C-4 were fitted with DB601N.

F19_Olli72
02-01-2004, 05:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by butch2k:
Only 20 Bf 110C-4 were fitted with DB601N.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And your point beeing..... ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BerkshireHunt
02-01-2004, 06:05 AM
That DB601Ns were not a typical installation.

F19_Olli72
02-01-2004, 06:21 AM
Ok, it was an honest question. Though, thats no reason to exclude it should the C4 be flyable some day.

Fliyng.Josti
02-01-2004, 08:20 AM
lets hope it will be, i can`t wait http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

jagdmailer
02-01-2004, 01:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by butch2k:
Only 20 Bf 110C-4 were fitted with DB601N.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Butch2K,

Thanks for your input.

Are you referring to the Bf 110C-4 Zerstorer heavy-figher or the Bf 110C-4/B (jabo variant) AFA your numbers with DB601N goes (20) ??

I do not doubt your numbers as I do not have any production numbers on the Bf 110C handy but virtually all of the reference I have handy claim that the Jabo Bf 110C-4/B was fitted with the DB601N @ 1200hp versus the regular Zerstorer Bf 110C-4 with DB601A @ 1075-1100hp to compensate for the added weight of some additional armor, 2 X ETC250 racks and the 500Kg bomb load.

Secondly, if indeed your production number does say that only 20 Bf 110C-4/B Jabo were ever fitted with the DB601N @ 1200hp, then it would still make sense IMHO to model it in FB with the DB601N as it would provide an interesting option over the plain Bf 110C-4 Zerstorer-Heavy fighter variant with DB601A @ 1075-1100hp.

Additionally, wether your 20 unit production number applies to the Bf 110C-4 Serstorer- heavy figther variant, or to the Bf 110C-4/B Jabo variant or actually to both, some other aircrafts in FB, ie. Mig 3U and cannon equipped I-16 just to name a few were indeed produced in very low numbers, even lower numbers for the Mig-3U than your 20 unit number yet, still appear in the simulation, and are sometimes rather pleantiful in the campaign mode..........

My 2 cents,

JagdMailer

butch2k
02-01-2004, 02:17 PM
No this total apply to both C-4 and C-4/B, even for the C-7 which was a "serialized" C-4/B only 7 out of 39 aircraft were equipped with DB601N.

The engine was not stantard issue, and it would require Oleg to create some C-4/N and/or C-4/BN to simulate 20 aircraft out of 155 produced of the C-4 series. You can always suggest him to do it, but i'm not really sure it's worth the effort since there are much more needed aircraft or variants awaiting.

jagdmailer
02-01-2004, 02:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by butch2k:
No this total apply to both C-4 and C-4/B, even for the C-7 which was a "serialized" C-4/B only 7 out of 39 aircraft were equipped with DB601N.

The engine was not stantard issue, and it would require Oleg to create some C-4/N and/or C-4/BN to simulate 20 aircraft out of 155 produced of the C-4 series. You can always suggest him to do it, but i'm not really sure it's worth the effort since there are much more needed aircraft or variants awaiting.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok then,

Here is my suggestion to Oleg and crew:

Based on Butck2K's numbers & once the Bf 110C-4 & C-4/B are finally made flyable, I would kindly request that the following variants are modelled:

1. Bf 110C-4 Zerstorer-Heavy fighter variant(with 2 X DB601A)- 1940

2. Bf 110C-4/N Zerstorer-heavy fighter variant (with 2 X DB601N)- 1941

3. Bf 110C-4/B Jabo variant (with DB601A) - 1940

4. Bf 110C-4/BN Jabo variant (with DB601N) - 1941

Like I said, we have aircrafts in Il-2/FB with lower production numbers than that flyable and appearing in sometimes large numbers in campaign mode. Mig 3U, I-16 Shvak, even Ju 87G-1....

Going from 1100Hp DB601A to 1200Hp DB601N should not represent much work IMHO and the ROI (return on investment.....meaning time invested in making 1200hp engines available in code) should be more than adequate.

Thanks,

JagdMailer

jagdmailer
02-01-2004, 03:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by butch2k:
No this total apply to both C-4 and C-4/B, even for the C-7 which was a "serialized" C-4/B only 7 out of 39 aircraft were equipped with DB601N.

The engine was not stantard issue, and it would require Oleg to create some C-4/N and/or C-4/BN to simulate 20 aircraft out of 155 produced of the C-4 series. You can always suggest him to do it, but i'm not really sure it's worth the effort since there are much more needed aircraft or variants awaiting.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And there is already is a Daimler-Benz DB601N modelled in the sim for the Bf 109E-7/Z so really the programming time would really be minimized for the solution I proposed......

Please Oleg get this one right....as it should have been flyable in the original Il-2 of 2 years ago.

Thanks,

JagdMailer
Omega Squad

JG53Frankyboy
02-01-2004, 08:50 PM
well , thx butch http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

nevertheless, why not change than the Bf110C4/B (C7) to a Bf110E-1/N , as best as an Bf110E-1/N/U4 with lowlevel attack armour.

the pits are not already done , dodnt think there a big differnces to the C-7 .
the changes in 3Dmodell should be very small - frontarmour (like in 109E-7) and that small heater intake betwenn the 4 MG17.
and it had the 4 wing ETC50 too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

that would be a formidable EastFront Jabo from 41 till 43 , the time the G2 appeared.

there would be no need for a Bf110C4/B - we have no British map http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bf110 in total:
Bf110C4 as the classic destroyer of 1940
Bf110E-1/N/U4 a groundattack plane from Barbarossa on
Bf110G2 from 1943 on

jagdmailer
02-01-2004, 09:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
well , thx butch http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

nevertheless, why not change than the Bf110C4/B (C7) to a Bf110E-1/N , as best as an Bf110E-1/N/U4 with lowlevel attack armour.

the pits are not already done , dodnt think there a big differnces to the C-7 .
the changes in 3Dmodell should be very small - frontarmour (like in 109E-7) and that small heater intake betwenn the 4 MG17.
and it had the 4 wing ETC50 too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

that would be a formidable EastFront Jabo from 41 till 43 , the time the G2 appeared.

there would be no need for a Bf110C4/B - we have no British map http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bf110 in total:
Bf110C4 as the classic destroyer of 1940
Bf110E-1/N/U4 a groundattack plane from Barbarossa on
Bf110G2 from 1943 on<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JG53Fankyboy,

I would be ready to live with that.

However, I am no real Bf 110 expert & correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that the C-4/B was common still on the Eastern Front circa summer 1941 and wasn't the SKG 210 for one deployed for Barbarossa-on with Bf 110C-4/B until 1942??

I understand that Bf 110E-1 may have been more common by summer 1942-on, however I have no data on the U4 sub-variant. U1 & U2 sub-variant were night-figthers. If it was indeed a jabo variant, I would assume that by that time, it would have the 2 ETC500 under the fuselage (instead of the ETC250 of the C-4/B) & 4 X ETC50 under the wings.

Therefore, Why not the following since Oleg already has the C-4 & C-4/B AI in FB as it is & that according to you, the E-1/N/U4 would only require minor external mods ??

1. Bf 110C-4 Zerstorer-Heavy fighter variant(with 2 X DB601A)- 1940

2. Bf 110C-4/N Zerstorer-heavy fighter variant (with 2 X DB601N)- 1941

3. Bf 110C-4/B Jabo variant (with DB601A) - 1940

4. Bf 110C-4/BN Jabo variant (with DB601N) - 1941

5. Bf 110E-1/N/U4 Jabo variant (with DB601N), ETC racks for up to 2 X SC250 + 4 X SC50.

Of course, G-2 late 1943 on.

All of a sudden, we could easily have up to 6 variants/sub-variants of this aircraft with little programming required, many if not all flyable while we have been patiently waiting for it for 2 years now......

Jagd

jagdmailer
02-01-2004, 10:32 PM
Further to my last post.....

Since we are talking about a flyable Bf 110C-4/B & later hopefully soon, here is some links to ordinance packs that was done for the Bf 110 for CFS......

2 X SC250 on ETC250: Bf 110C-4/B

http://www.virtualwings.org/bf110/sc250.jpg

2 X SC500 on ETC500: Bf 110C-7, E-1....

http://www.virtualwings.org/bf110/sc500.jpg

2 X AB250 Submunitions containers:

http://www.virtualwings.org/bf110/ab250.jpg

2 X 300liter drop-tanks:

http://www.virtualwings.org/bf110/dt01_76.jpg

2 X 900liter drop-tanks:

http://www.virtualwings.org/bf110/dt02.jpg

While I am at it, is it me or it seems that the current Il-2/FB 300liter drop tank would need a little rework/texture done to it. This one looks better IMHO.

Cheers,

Jagd

JG53Frankyboy
02-02-2004, 05:16 AM
the Bf110E-1 was in full service from beginning 1941.

from august40 till august41 334 planes were build

from the C7 (the C4/B) were actually build only 39 planes.

the -/U4 added armour to the plane:
front, back and bottom of pilot
bottom and back of reargunner
frontside of engines
water and oilcoolers

so, it would be very usefull in groundattck duties over the eastern front.
what was actually the main task of the 4 Bf110 equipted groups over the eastern front

jagdmailer
02-02-2004, 08:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
the Bf110E-1 was in full service from beginning 1941.

from august40 till august41 334 planes were build

from the C7 (the C4/B) were actually build only 39 planes.

the -/U4 added armour to the plane:
front, back and bottom of pilot
bottom and back of reargunner
frontside of engines
water and oilcoolers

so, it would be very usefull in groundattck duties over the eastern front.
what was actually the main task of the 4 Bf110 equipted groups over the eastern front<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the details....like I said, I did not have details about U4 sub-variant.

For the little amount of work involved, and for the sake of historical availability & just plain having choices, I still think that some though should be given to make available the 5 variants of the Bf 110 as per my earlier post.

Cheers,

JagdMailer

JG53Frankyboy
02-02-2004, 10:59 AM
btw, the changes that a necessary to make an E-1/U4 out of a C4 are already in game http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif:

the heating intake at the nose and the armourwindow in front of the pilot are already at the G2 modell http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
and the 4 ETC50 for the wings , well http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
02-02-2004, 12:21 PM
may aswell try and get all the varients we can http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JohnVasco
11-12-2004, 12:06 PM
If this topic is still live, then the following may help.
Erprobungsgruppe 210, the fighter-bomber unit in 1940, flew several different variants of the Bf 110. The 'C-6', which 1. Staffel, ZG 1, brought with them upon redesignation to 1./Erpr. Gr. 210, had a 30 mm. MG 101 Kanone in place of the two 20 mm. Kanone. Stab and 2nd Staffel were equipped with Bf 110 D-0/Bs from the outset. As the BoB progressed, and replacement aircraft were issued to the unit, the 'D-0's started to be equipped with the uprated DB 601 N engine. However as late as 27 September 1940 there was evidence of the unit using a 'D' with a 601 A engine (Gruppenkommandeur Martin Lutz's S9+DH shot down at Tarrant Gunville on that date). In the later stages of the BoB, the unit were flying the new 'E' version, evidenced by it beginning to appear in the damage/loss lists. Also the unit recorded the loss of a Bf 110 C-7 in November. The 'C-7' was an earlier-version Bf 110, sent to a repair facility, outfitted with bomb racks, and re-designated as a 'C-7' variant. Hence you will find 'C-7's with W.Nr. that relate to earlier sub-variant types. The bible on all of this is the Petrick/Mankau book: 'Bf110/Me210/Me410'. A wonderful reference work for anyone with more than a passing interest in the Bf 110.
3. Staffel took on charge new Bf 109 E-4/Bs upon redesignation from 4./JG 186.

Hope this helps, and clarifies matters.


John Vasco

butch2k
11-12-2004, 12:49 PM
Nice to see you here John http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
btw did you get my email about my invite to the new AAW ?
if not point your browser to :
http://forums.allaboutwarfare.com
in order to register http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cheers,
Olivier