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Xstantin
06-17-2015, 06:11 PM
Now that we've seen a bit more about both protagonists - which one you're more excited to play as?

Personally, I'm indifferent about Jacob and I'm sure I'll spend more time playing as his sister.

dxsxhxcx
06-17-2015, 06:32 PM
I probably won't play the game because my old PC won't run it but I voted on Evie for variety' sake and because I think it's about time to have female protagonists...

I-Like-Pie45
06-17-2015, 06:40 PM
whichever one proposes first :)

rrebe
06-17-2015, 06:41 PM
So far I like them both :)

Shahkulu101
06-17-2015, 06:58 PM
Henry Green.

Sorrosyss
06-17-2015, 07:11 PM
I am unashamedly biased on this one I'm afraid. :D Evie will lead us.

Why? Of course, because I've wanted a female lead in a full title for quite some time. Whilst this is not quite that dream yet, it is a solid first step towards it.

We have only seen brief snippets of the twins' interactions, but Jacob very much comes across as the impulsive, brash, brawler type. By comparison, Evie is very stoic, her words delivered with an air of authority. As the elder, I get the sense that she usually has to keep Jacob in check quite often. Which begs the question, is Jacob really the one running the gang here...

We have seen the Jacob character type several times already, and as with previous protagonists he does appear to have a less than ideal relationship with the creed. As things stand, I cannot really be too harsh to the character at this stage as we haven't seen him in true action. I'm familiar with his actor from the TV show Lost Girl, and was surprised at his casting as I'm not sure his voice befits such a large gentleman (he is fairly slender in real life), but time will tell.

I'm really indifferent about his outfit if I'm honest. I'm a big supporter of the hoods, so I cannot really stand his facial hair and the top hat. With the green accents, it just screams of artful dodger to me. I will say that I really like the darker tones of both character's outfits. The white is iconic, but not ideally practical for stealth I'm sure.

Now, Evie's outfit I find brilliant. The red accented half cloak goes perfect with the darker hues, and really gives her a fearsome image in my opinion. She is supposedly better at stealth, and holds the rank of Master Assassin - so we know she is very skilled. It will make a nice change to play a measuered, methodical character rather than the brash trainee we usually get lumbered with. I like her voice actress. I can't wait to see what adventures she gets up to in a society that was dominated by sexism towards women. (There is also the whole Eve subplot which may or may not feature) I hope Ubisoft treats her scenes well, and I am wholly confident that she will end up as my favourite protagonist. If nothing else she is quite different to what we are used to, and that in itself is exciting to me.

So yeah, totally unbiased opinion there! :cool:

Namikaze_17
06-17-2015, 07:32 PM
Jacob for right now... though seeing more of Evie later on could change that.

But overall, I'm liking both.

VestigialLlama4
06-17-2015, 07:39 PM
Neither one is all that striking. Jacob Frye is Good Guy!Thomas Hickey and Evie Frye is this wallflower, with less style than Hope Jensen.

bitebug2003
06-17-2015, 07:58 PM
Poor Jacob :(

GunnerGalactico
06-17-2015, 08:01 PM
Without hesitation, Evie. I like that she is level-headed, calm and rational. I don't care if she is the conservative wallflower-type. I don't think I like or care much for Jacob. Sorry.

VestigialLlama4
06-17-2015, 08:37 PM
Without hesitation, Evie. I like that she is level-headed, calm and rational. I don't care if she is the conservative wallflower-type. I don't think I like or care much for Jacob. Sorry.

She can be level-headed, calm and rational without being a wallflower. I just don't like that, she's "going to let Jacob be the spokesman and I'll just stand by and above and not get in his way".

Jacob Frye is a real b--ch. He's S1,Mission1 Ezio in Brotherhood "Insieme per la Vittoria". If Ezio had stayed that way for the rest of the game no one would have liked him either.

I have a feeling Jacob and Evie will die at the end of the game.

Xstantin
06-17-2015, 08:40 PM
l. I don't care if she is the conservative wallflower-type.

I think it could be interesting actually :)



She can be level-headed, calm and rational without being a wallflower. I just don't like that, she's "going to let Jacob be the spokesman and I'll just stand by and above and not get in his way".

I have a feeling Jacob and Evie will die at the end of the game.

Time for some fratricide

GunnerGalactico
06-17-2015, 08:51 PM
She can be level-headed, calm and rational without being a wallflower. I just don't like that, she's "going to let Jacob be the spokesman and I'll just stand by and above and not get in his way".

If you don't like wallflowers, that's you. I'm not going to get into a debate about that. It would've looked silly if she was a co-spokesperson and it would've contradicted her character. Jacob is a brash, reckless blabber-mouth and I don't like that. Evie's cool, calm and quiet personality makes sense because she is meant to be the polar opposite of her brother.

I-Like-Pie45
06-17-2015, 09:01 PM
you know what they say about opposites

they attract :)

SpiritOfNevaeh
06-17-2015, 10:54 PM
Gotta go with Evie.

Getting tired of the same white male protagonist. :rolleyes:

Besides, I liked her trailer better :)

THE_JOKE_KING33
06-18-2015, 03:53 AM
Jacob easily, I love his "heart on sleeve', fun-loving character archetype while I absolutely despise Evie's archetype of the always serious person, personally never seen the appeal of that.

UbiSeraphim
06-18-2015, 04:05 AM
http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/e/e2/133Eevee.png/250px-133Eevee.png

Oh, sorry, I meant Evie. Honest mistake. ;)

But for real, I'm excited to be able to play as her. Her fighting style is a refreshing change of pace.

D.I.D.
06-18-2015, 08:00 AM
Jacob easily, I love his "heart on sleeve', fun-loving character archetype while I absolutely despise Evie's archetype of the always serious person, personally never seen the appeal of that.

Depends how that strikes you, I suppose. Peronally, I find the breezy jokers in this series really alarming. I can't look at their behaviour without thinking of the movie Chopper, and the man on whom the film was based. That said, I wouldn't mind if they did make a protagonist assassin similar to Chopper, just to acknowledge the reality of this kind of person and to make use of the elephant-in-the-room creepiness of Ezio/Edward/Arno et al. For a less psychopathic but famously charismatic model, they could look to Jacques Mesrine: utterly vicious, and yet possessed of sufficient humour and charm that he easily cultivated a Robin Hood persona that persists to this day. That could be an interesting tightrope to walk if you're thinking, "There are things I like about this person, and yet he/she is ultimately repellent". You'd be free to like this person, but there'd be a tension to that. You could say that's there now, except it's not because the game never lays that out. In fact, it says people with my viewpoint are wrong: these people are awesome, heroic, morally redeemed.

That's not to say the only alternative is a grim Batman-esque character either, but if you allow the person's actions to be rationalised as a kind of weird professionalism then it might feel less disturbing to have him/her be the protagonist. I'd like to see an assassin inspired by Prakoso in The Raid 2, or Sean Harris's Micheletto in Showtime's version of The Borgias -- both of whom are very much about disciplines and codes, but for very different reasons than The Creed, and yet have unexpected emotional depths to them -- but there are other ways to do it too. The character could be written with the mindset of a predatory animal, as a crude guideline to his/her atmosphere.

We don't really know how serious Evie is yet, but we do know she's a Master assassin so it's not all that surprising if goofiness is not on the cards for her.

X_xWolverinEx_X
06-18-2015, 12:00 PM
I am unashamedly biased on this one I'm afraid. :D Evie will lead us.

Why? Of course, because I've wanted a female lead in a full title for quite some time. Whilst this is not quite that dream yet, it is a solid first step towards it.

We have only seen brief snippets of the twins' interactions, but Jacob very much comes across as the impulsive, brash, brawler type. By comparison, Evie is very stoic, her words delivered with an air of authority. As the elder, I get the sense that she usually has to keep Jacob in check quite often. Which begs the question, is Jacob really the one running the gang here...

We have seen the Jacob character type several times already, and as with previous protagonists he does appear to have a less than ideal relationship with the creed. As things stand, I cannot really be too harsh to the character at this stage as we haven't seen him in true action. I'm familiar with his actor from the TV show Lost Girl, and was surprised at his casting as I'm not sure his voice befits such a large gentleman (he is fairly slender in real life), but time will tell.

I'm really indifferent about his outfit if I'm honest. I'm a big supporter of the hoods, so I cannot really stand his facial hair and the top hat. With the green accents, it just screams of artful dodger to me. I will say that I really like the darker tones of both character's outfits. The white is iconic, but not ideally practical for stealth I'm sure.

Now, Evie's outfit I find brilliant. The red accented half cloak goes perfect with the darker hues, and really gives her a fearsome image in my opinion. She is supposedly better at stealth, and holds the rank of Master Assassin - so we know she is very skilled. It will make a nice change to play a measuered, methodical character rather than the brash trainee we usually get lumbered with. I like her voice actress. I can't wait to see what adventures she gets up to in a society that was dominated by sexism towards women. (There is also the whole Eve subplot which may or may not feature) I hope Ubisoft treats her scenes well, and I am wholly confident that she will end up as my favourite protagonist. If nothing else she is quite different to what we are used to, and that in itself is exciting to me.

So yeah, totally unbiased opinion there! :cool:

Shut the **** up you biased misandrist

We know barely anything about Evie

You're using gender as an indication of quality which is incredibly sexist

off topic : LUBE!

Sorrosyss
06-18-2015, 01:01 PM
Shut the **** up you biased misandrist

We know barely anything about Evie

You're using gender as an indication of quality which is incredibly sexist

off topic : LUBE!

Very mature comments.

Misandrist? Nowhere did I state I hate men, or Jacob. I merely pointed out that he has similarities to what we have had previously. It's true that we do not know that much about the two characters, and I acknowledged that, but you can get a sense for the characters, not only from the trailers but dev interviews.

As for the gender as quality, again, wrong. Whilst I liked Aveline, I fully acknowledge she was not as interesting or performed as well as say Edward for example.

Enjoy your lube. :p

The_Kiwi_
06-18-2015, 01:26 PM
Very mature comments.

Misandrist? Nowhere did I state I hate men, or Jacob. I merely pointed out that he has similarities to what we have had previously. It's true that we do not know that much about the two characters, and I acknowledged that, but you can get a sense for the characters, not only from the trailers but dev interviews.

As for the gender as quality, again, wrong. Whilst I liked Aveline, I fully acknowledge she was not as interesting or performed as well as say Edward for example.

Enjoy your lube. :p

Your comments say otherwise
You clearly have some bias towards Evie and female characters in general, just because they're female

I know this from, as you say, "a sense for characters"

And a bias for one gender is just as sexist as a bias against another

Matknapers18
06-18-2015, 03:06 PM
Neither. We've had one cutscene, how on earth are we suppose to make a deduction from that? Seriously, we know nothing of these characters apart from a couple labels provided from developers.

If anything, from the little we've heard, I'd actually say they both look pretty bland. We have a pair of intelligent and strong-headed twins. How generic and unimaginative is that? How many times has this story been told in books,movies and games, of a violent character who is balanced by his smarter counterpart? Its such a lazy dynamic, that requires little creativity from the writers. Rash and Reason. Why do Evie and Jacob have to be bipolar opposites in order to function as an entertaining duo? Its just lazy. Instead of providing these characters with divergent motivations, internal conflicts or an ambiguous relationship, lets just follow this simple archetype that has already been established. The game isn't out yet, and we already have a black and white relationship between our protagonists. Couldn't we have an equivocal relationship between the two, a relationship that has to be understood and interpreted by the player rather than just spoon fed?

The fact that these two are complete opposites probably means we are going to get a power struggle for control of the Rooks. Calling it now. I dunno. Maybe the relationship is more ambiguous than I think, and I'm just looking at it from face value. Perhaps Im going way too deep into this. And like I said, We've had one cutscene, we know little about the characters. So I'm not making any final judgements. This is just how I feel at the moment, I hope Ubisoft prove me wrong. Also, anyone think, from what we've heard, Jacobs VO is really iffy?

P.S. Can people refrain from selecting their favourite twin according to gender? Its pathetic.

D.I.D.
06-18-2015, 03:17 PM
Your comments say otherwise
You clearly have some bias towards Evie and female characters in general, just because they're female

I know this from, as you say, "a sense for characters"

And a bias for one gender is just as sexist as a bias against another

No it's not. Someone who pushes for male characters over female characters is continuing a destructive path that worsens the games industry. Someone who actively pushes for female characters is displaying a perfectly understandable reaction to the existing (very poor) balance.

The same goes for people wanting to see more characters of a certain racial group, characters of different builds, characters of different physical ability, characters of varied sexuality. The changes they want will enrich the breadth of characters in games. The continuation of the status quo from just a few years ago ought to be unthinkable, since it was resulting in a narrow stream of gravel-voiced, 6ft, white male dullards dominating the centre of the western gaming news. Thankfully it's begun to change, but I say "begun" advisedly.

Journey93
06-18-2015, 03:43 PM
Evie for sure Jacob seems like an Edward clone (I guess Ezio clone didn't work out that well)

I wish Evie was the main protagonist not lame Jacob

AssassinHMS
06-18-2015, 04:24 PM
I can't wait to see what adventures she gets up to in a society that was dominated by sexism towards women.

You do realize that sexism is mutual, right? For example, when you objectify one side you “subjectify” the other (one is the object and the other automatically becomes the subject) and that brings both advantages and disadvantages to each side. You cannot turn one side into the object without turning the other into the subject and both ends have their perks/problems. So really, everyone loses/wins.
You could say however, that society was dominated by “objectification towards women” but both genders were equally victims of sexism.

VestigialLlama4
06-18-2015, 05:02 PM
You do realize that sexism is mutual, right? For example, when you objectify one side you “subjectify” the other (one is the object and the other automatically becomes the subject) and that brings both advantages and disadvantages to each side. You cannot turn one side into the object without turning the other into the subject and both ends have their perks/problems. So really, everyone loses/wins.

Well, historically it is not even 100 years since women have had the vote in the Anglophone, barely 50 years since they got equality in the work place. In the field of representation, video games are in the Caveman era, only slightly worse than comic books.

So no, "everyone loses/wins" does not apply at all to this. Women have historically been the losers and men the benficiaries.


You could say however, that society was dominated by “objectification towards women” but both genders were equally victims of sexism.

If you mean patriarchy then yes. Patriarchy has oppressed some men (say people who are not-macho, not-heterosexual, not-white), but that is not remotely equal to centuries of denying women social and political rights.


I can't wait to see what adventures she gets up to in a society that was dominated by sexism towards women.

I highly doubt we'll be seeing much of that. If they wanted to tackle sexism, then the French Revolution was a good time to do it, the Revolution despite having a lot more women activism than the American Revolution never advanced women's rights.

The Victorian Era was a time when middle-class and working-class women started working and the like. They would teach, become nurses and so on. Doing so often meant that they couldn't be married. For a character like Evie, the Victorian era won't be problem since her appearance, bearing and way of speech is very middle-class and she's not from a minority either. So I don't see that as being too much baggage for her. And you know, she's an Assassin not a civilian.

Sorrosyss
06-18-2015, 06:13 PM
Your comments say otherwise
You clearly have some bias towards Evie and female characters in general, just because they're female

I know this from, as you say, "a sense for characters"

And a bias for one gender is just as sexist as a bias against another

I freely admit that I favour playing a female character, but gender was not my only reason for picking Evie. I did point out her traits, outfit, voice etc as characteristics that I like. In the end, she is different to the normal template we have, and I see several people voicing the same opinion here.

Many players like to play their own gender, so I see nothing wrong in my support of wanting more female characters. The fact that I support that, does not make one a sexist. If I have given that impression I apologise to any I have offended. My comments were purely made out of enthusiasm for wanting to play as Evie. And I'm sure I'll love Jacob in the end. After all, I have played every AC game to date - thus please be assured I do not hate or dislike male protagonists, or the gender.

AssassinHMS
06-18-2015, 06:46 PM
Well, historically it is not even 100 years since women have had the vote in the Anglophone, barely 50 years since they got equality in the work place. In the field of representation, video games are in the Caveman era, only slightly worse than comic books.

If one side sees the other as “weaker/less capable”, then they’re automatically labeling themselves as “stronger/more capable” and, as always, each label has its pros and cons (the sexism affects both sides equally).
The supposedly “weaker/less capable” side may be treated as such:
- since it’s perceived as weaker/less capable, it is laughed at/not taken seriously when trying to oppose the (labeled) “stronger/more capable” side. The “weaker side” may even be forbidden to participate in activities or events that are deemed to require more strength or more efficiency (jobs, wars, voting, leadership roles, etc.);
- however, the “stronger” side is bound to protect the “weaker” side (even if just to affirm its strength). This means the “weaker” side will likely be protected from war and general violence, from the tests of strength and brutality forced upon those who are made to believe their identity is nothing more than the "strengh" they display, etc.

I could go on and mention a minor portion of the advantages/disadvantages inherent to those who belong to the (labeled) “stronger” side which, I assure you, is just as real and as valid…but I think it would be redundant.




Women have historically been the losers and men the benficiaries.
And, no offense, but I must say, this is such a narrow-minded view of the world.

VestigialLlama4
06-18-2015, 06:54 PM
I could go on and mention a minor portion of the advantages/disadvantages inherent to those who belong to the (labeled) “stronger” side which, I assure you, is just as real and as valid…but I think it would be redundant.

I don't quite get where you are going. If you are saying that having playable female protagonists is trivial and unimportant and not a big deal, if that is what you mean, I wish you would confirm that, so that I don't assume wrongly.


And, no offense, but I must say, this is such a narrow-minded view of the world.

It's not intended to be "a view of the world", its a statement of fact.

AssassinHMS
06-18-2015, 07:09 PM
I don't quite get where you are going. If you are saying that having playable female protagonists is trivial and unimportant and not a big deal, if that is what you mean, I wish you would confirm that, so that I don't assume wrongly.
All I’m saying is that sexism affects both sides equally and there are no real “winners” or “losers” in the big picture.
I wasn’t talking about mere video games.



It's not intended to be "a view of the world", its a statement of fact.
Oh, it’s an actual fact! I didn’t know that….

Altair1789
06-18-2015, 07:23 PM
Neither, bring back Altaïr

The_Kiwi_
06-19-2015, 12:12 AM
Neither. We've had one cutscene, how on earth are we suppose to make a deduction from that? Seriously, we know nothing of these characters apart from a couple labels provided from developers.

P.S. Can people refrain from selecting their favourite twin according to gender? Its pathetic.

Exactly
We have barely anything to judge characters on, so any judgement made now, will be seen as biased in terms of gender


No it's not. Someone who pushes for male characters over female characters is continuing a destructive path that worsens the games industry. Someone who actively pushes for female characters is displaying a perfectly understandable reaction to the existing (very poor) balance.

The same goes for people wanting to see more characters of a certain racial group, characters of different builds, characters of different physical ability, characters of varied sexuality. The changes they want will enrich the breadth of characters in games. The continuation of the status quo from just a few years ago ought to be unthinkable, since it was resulting in a narrow stream of gravel-voiced, 6ft, white male dullards dominating the centre of the western gaming news. Thankfully it's begun to change, but I say "begun" advisedly.

That is the most insulting post I have ever read
Claiming male protagonists represent a destructive path is disgusting
And asking for equality is also just as sexist
For actual equality, the gender shouldn't matter in the slightest, meaning no complaining one way or the other, the gender of the character shouldn't even be a factor, that's equality


I freely admit that I favour playing a female character, but gender was not my only reason for picking Evie. I did point out her traits, outfit, voice etc as characteristics that I like. In the end, she is different to the normal template we have, and I see several people voicing the same opinion here.

Many players like to play their own gender, so I see nothing wrong in my support of wanting more female characters. The fact that I support that, does not make one a sexist. If I have given that impression I apologise to any I have offended. My comments were purely made out of enthusiasm for wanting to play as Evie. And I'm sure I'll love Jacob in the end. After all, I have played every AC game to date - thus please be assured I do not hate or dislike male protagonists, or the gender.

"gender was not my only reason"
The fact that it's a reason at all makes you sexist
You just admitted bias, well done

Xstantin
06-19-2015, 12:27 AM
Exactly
We have barely anything to judge characters on, so any judgement made now, will be seen as biased in terms of gender


I didn't really think about any gender stuff when I made the thread tbh :nonchalance:, like in general I liked Arno since the reveal cause he looked dandy and all that - can't say the same about Jacob. I do like Evie cause she's the stealthy one apparently and I prefer the stealthy approach (same reason I liked ACU but that's a different story)

The_Kiwi_
06-19-2015, 12:42 AM
I didn't really think about any gender stuff when I made the thread tbh :nonchalance:, like in general I liked Arno since the reveal cause he looked dandy and all that - can't say the same about Jacob. I do like Evie cause she's the stealthy one apparently and I prefer the stealthy approach (same reason I liked ACU but that's a different story)

Liking people based on their looks?
How shallow :rolleyes:

We know nothing of their motives, actions, beliefs or convictions
We only know a teeny bit about their personality

I can't remember who said it, but there's a quote that's something like "judge one on what they do, not what they are"

Xstantin
06-19-2015, 12:54 AM
How shallow :rolleyes:


Yep, I know :p they're pixels anyway