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View Full Version : Just tried the ME262 and guess what.......



XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:12 PM
...the engines caught fire!?
Wasn't this fixed?

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:12 PM
...the engines caught fire!?
Wasn't this fixed?

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:15 PM
it's supposta do that

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:17 PM
vroelofs wrote:
- ...the engines caught fire!?
- Wasn't this fixed?
-

Theyre supposed to if you dont ease them up slowly. There is a good guide on how to fly this plane somewhere (mudmovers?) that will have you up and flying it in no time.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:18 PM
Thats the whole point. If you ram the throttle forwards or backwards, the engines cannot cope, and either flameout, catch fire or explode. This was a real problem, so think of it as one of the Me262s challenges. After all, to get the speed you need to make some sacrifices.

To be able to fare well,
To avoid the frustration of misfortune,
That, in this world, is happiness.
-Euripides' Electra

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:22 PM
Oke,so they probably blew cause my throttle wasn't turned back all the way when i loaded the quick mission?

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:32 PM
They explode if you overheat the engines for a while (throttle higher than 80%), or if you increase the throttle suddenly from a very low to a very high setting.
There is a pretty cool guide on how to fly the Me262 here

http://www.mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_me262procedures.htm

GATO_LOCO

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:27 PM
LOL, i didn't know you could over-heat a jet!!!

I always thought that increasing throttle would also increase airflow. That and the jets i normally fly are the F-4F ICE, F-15C, F-15E, and F-14D...

LLv34_Jani
08-15-2003, 11:36 PM
VOL_Jon wrote:
- LOL, i didn't know you could over-heat a jet!!!
-
- I always thought that increasing throttle would also
- increase airflow. That and the jets i normally fly
- are the F-4F ICE, F-15C, F-15E, and F-14D...
-

Kinda nuts comparing an ME-262 vs Modern jetfighters don't you think? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:37 PM
The modern jets you are used to are very different from the 262. It was notorious for catching fire on start up. And would catch fire if you throttled up to fast. The problem I guess they fixed had more to do with the AI pilots starting one engine and trying to take off. They ended up driving through the fields forever. That is unless they crashed into something. Practice with it and you will get it figured out.

...and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been and there you long to return.
~leonardo de vinci

Hawgdog
08-15-2003, 11:40 PM
We've pretty well hashed this out, and yupper, its a burner for sure. All those jets were treacherous.

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:52 PM
OK, OK, so my idea of a "long-range kill" is an AIM-120 AMRAMM off a Frazier-Nash ejector rail. And i'm accustom to afterburner, RWR's, and radar, but really, HOW CAN YOU OVER-HEAT A JET!?!

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 12:41 AM
The Jumo engine's biggest sign that it was a crude 1st generation axial turbine was that it did not have fuel regulators. Modern jets won't let you dump 100% throttle worth of fuel into the combustion chamber at low rpm but will choke it off to a lessening degree as the engine spools up.

If you put too much throttle into the engine at too low a rpm or through-pressure (airspeed) then the engine will overheat as partially burnt fuel will damage the second stage turbine and raise the exhaust temp to unacceptable levels.

Simply put, the throttle must reflect rpm and airspeed to keep the engine running in equilibrium.

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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 12:45 AM
sigh,,, typical noob `It`s a jet! Now I can fly around like I`m in an F16 and kill everyone!` It`s hardly worth trying to explain.

Get LOMAC m8, forget IL2\FB. You`ll be happier! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif





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SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 12:59 AM
The main problem with the original Jumos wasn't a design problem, but a lack of chromium for the parts that were going to get hot. They had to use steel instead (much more poorly suited to the rigours of high temperature operation), hence the limited shelf life of the engines.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 01:30 AM
a better questiom would be why don't jet engines always blow up; you are basically taking air ,squeezing it to very high pressure( which heats it up- pressure =volume* temp- remember a bicycle pump getting warm when you pump it) then add fuel and burn it- this is basically a 'controlled' burn/explosion. the resulting very hot high pressure air the takes the path of least resistance- ie the hole at the back( passing another turbine which spins the compressor to squeeze the air in the first place) at high presure which pushes the jet forwards (thrust). this is still at a high temp but not as hot as inside the engine (gives up some heat as energy to spin the compressor)
now imagine dumping a bunch of fuel in suddenly to a system already near its limits of pressure and temperature by snapping the throttle open.
also remember that metallurgy was not upto todays standards-we've had 60 years to learn-ww2 jets were the 'bleeding edge' of technology then.
btw the first jet to have no restrictions on throttle operation by the pilot was the f/a 18
this is a VERY simplified version of what goes on, but i hope you get the idea

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 01:53 AM
I'm no rocket scientist, but I imagine that after over 5 years at war beginning in 1939, the first generation of jet fighter might have some metallurgy deficiencies!!!

I like the 262 as is, the instincts screams throttle but the mind must hold back.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 02:02 AM
vroelofs, your an idiot.

ShadowHawk__
08-16-2003, 02:24 AM
Dolemite- wrote:
- vroelofs, your an idiot.

I think that's a bit uncalled for, some people don't know this kind of stuff, doesn't mean you should be a complete [censored] to them.

-----------------------
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-Death From Above

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:56 PM
Dolemite,very helpfull reply.......now go F*** YOURSELF!

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 07:29 PM
Zatorski wrote:
- I'm no rocket scientist, but I imagine that after
- over 5 years at war beginning in 1939, the first
- generation of jet fighter might have some metallurgy
- deficiencies!!!
-
remember that when these were been made germany was loseing the war if hitler wasnt such a **** and wanted itt as a bomber then it would of gone into production a lot sooner and german would of done vast amout moredamage to the allies

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 08:11 PM
Actually hitlers idea for them as a bomber was not much of a set back in fact it only held them back about 2 weeks.
The most significant problem was the engines thier were only a little over 80 actually fitted with engines. they had over a thousand airframes ready to go but no engines.

by the time engine prodution crept up to significant levels they were plauged by fuel shortages. it go so bad that most fighter groups couldnt put up more than 3 or 4 at a time. so their impact was insignificant. how ever one interesting note. they did produce some jet fighter aces that scores were high enough to keep the record for jet aces untill the mid 70's when an israeli pilot finally had a higher total.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:41 PM
WarGod5475 wrote:
- Actually hitlers idea for them as a bomber was not
- much of a set back in fact it only held them back
- about 2 weeks.
- The most significant problem was the engines thier
- were only a little over 80 actually fitted with
- engines. they had over a thousand airframes ready to
- go but no engines.
-
-
- by the time engine prodution crept up to
- significant levels they were plauged by fuel
- shortages. it go so bad that most fighter groups
- couldnt put up more than 3 or 4 at a time. so their
- impact was insignificant. how ever one interesting
- note. they did produce some jet fighter aces that
- scores were high enough to keep the record for jet
- aces untill the mid 70's when an israeli pilot
- finally had a higher total.
-
-It was a set back because the first 100 were ready in late 1942 and kept on the ground.
By the time they were needed fuel was the restriction.
In late december 1944 there were about 1477 jets operational but only 10% could actually fight.The rest was destroyed on the ground.
The Allied bombings had destroyed most of Germany's oil production and plants producing jetfuel were considered primerary targets.
-
-
-
-

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 01:05 AM
Vroelofs, if you're familiar with modern jets, the Jumo engine in the 262 had a fuel control that was similar to BUC (Back Up Control) in an F-16. This was basically a spigot for fuel, with no regulation other than the pilot's hand on the throttle. While this was a backup for the Viper, it was the 262's only control (actually the 262 had some form of fuel regulation, but only at higher RPM settings.) Just like a Viper in BUC, if you slam the throttles of a 262 forward, you dump a bunch of fuel in the combustion chambers, while the engine is still turning slowly. The fuel burns, and pushes on the turbine. But the inertia of the engine spool is too great to be overcome instantly, and either an overtemp, compressor stall or both occur. These are bad in an F-16, but they're traumatic in a 262 because as bolox mentioned, the Jumo didn't have the benefit of high temperature alloys, single crystal blades, and machined one-piece blisks (bladed disks.)
Bottom line: go easy on the throttle, and live by the engine temperature gauges. This is pretty much how the airplane actually flew, and not a bug.

Blotto

"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter craft, no matter how technically advanced." - A. Galland

"Look, do you want the jets, or would you rather I slap the props back on?" - W. Messerschmitt

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 08:01 AM
Very clear explanation,thanks!
Thank all for the replies!

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 08:05 AM
ME 262 really had a poor fuel management system, do you think the the first jet aircrafts was perfect..lol