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View Full Version : Ship/Shore anti-aircraft and frame rates



bhunter2112
04-09-2004, 11:38 AM
I set up a full mission builder with some sturmovik torpedo bombers attacking the turpitz german battleship. When the ships AA opened up my computer began to suffer and the picture started to get choppy. I hope PF can find a way to made AA less of a frame rate drag without having to lower settings. Not every has or can afford a state of the art this month computer. I don't even use the Lenningrad map. It is to damm big!!! Anone else in my boat or have ideas?

bhunter2112
04-09-2004, 11:38 AM
I set up a full mission builder with some sturmovik torpedo bombers attacking the turpitz german battleship. When the ships AA opened up my computer began to suffer and the picture started to get choppy. I hope PF can find a way to made AA less of a frame rate drag without having to lower settings. Not every has or can afford a state of the art this month computer. I don't even use the Lenningrad map. It is to damm big!!! Anone else in my boat or have ideas?

Tully__
04-09-2004, 11:46 AM
With the likely prevalence of ship AA in PF missions, the developers are looking very closely at this issue. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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bhunter2112
04-09-2004, 12:07 PM
When the Turpitz opens up it looks like every damm person on the ship is shooting. Also I hope the maps are a reasonable size with a better auto mode. I do a campaign and go make a sandwitch while the auto gets me to the action at x8 speed. I don't want to fly for 30 miutes to get to the action. Please resonablly sized maps.

Tully__
04-09-2004, 01:40 PM
This thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=275108123&r=552107143#552107143) on maps.

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Blade_X_
04-09-2004, 02:07 PM
I think omitting the smoke trails would really boost the performance.

heywooood
04-09-2004, 02:59 PM
Tully -

I am especially glad to hear that the Dev's are concerned about frame rates re: ship AA fire.... Evil Fennecs' sig is not so alarming anymore... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Fennec_P
04-09-2004, 03:01 PM
Now all you have to fear are the bullets.

http://members.shaw.ca/fennec/flakw.jpg

Tully__
04-09-2004, 03:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
Tully -

I am especially glad to hear that the Dev's are concerned about frame rates re: ship AA fire.... Evil Fennecs' sig is not so alarming anymore... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No guarantee of a cure yet. See here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=375100523&r=189106623#189106623)

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LEXX_Luthor
04-09-2004, 03:34 PM
For framerates, FB land based AA is not so bad, ship AA is bad.

Maybe they can consider it to be a whole "ship" firing instead of a thousand guns, and do the AA statistically instead of calculate every AA shell trajectory.

luthier1
04-09-2004, 03:39 PM
Can you guys give me a better idea of what causes the problems with ship AAA on your machines? I took your word for it before, but I just now set up a mission in straight out AEP: two Tirpitzes, three Niobe cruisers and four Soviet destroyers (forget the name) as blue. Eight Il-2Ts at 100 meters torpedoeing the Tirpitz, myself as #4, and 12 Ju-87Bs bombing the cruisers from 2,500 meters.

The amount of flak we've enountered was pretty devastating, but I really didn't see any visible FPS drop on my pretty modest machine - 2 GHz with 512 RAM and a Radeon 8500, running at 1024x768 and all maxed out.

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
04-09-2004, 04:52 PM
hmmm, maybe Oleg fixed it and he didn't tell anybody. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I don't mess with ships anymore for this very reason. Must redo some tests.

On older Patch, I once had 4 Niobe open up on 12 P11's passing low overhead, and me in Me262 on other side of map, the fps dropped very low until the ships stopped firing.

Tully__
04-10-2004, 02:24 AM
My test:

4x Tirpitz (stationary)
4x Type VIIC submarine (stationary)
7x Niobe AA cruiser (stationary)

16x Pe2

Mission viewing was done 80% from a static camera, 20% from Shift-F2 behind the Pe2's

Prior to shooting, 68-75fps depending on camera location.
Heavy AA dropped it to about 58-65fps
Medium AA dropped further to about 43-48fps
Light AA dropped massively to about 9-20fps

When the AA started getting hits, parachutes dropped it to less than 3fps.


System:
P4 2.0GHz
Abit BD7
768MB PC2100 Kingston
GF4 Ti4200 128 MB with Omega 45.23 drivers
Creative Vibra! 128 PCI sound.

conf.ini for settings:

[il2]
title=Il2-Sturmovik Forgotten Battles
hotkeys=HotKey game

[window]
width=1024
height=768
ColourBits=32
DepthBits=24
StencilBits=8
ChangeScreenRes=1
FullScreen=1
DrawIfNotFocused=0
EnableResize=0
EnableClose=1
SaveAspect=1
Use3Renders=0

[GLPROVIDER]
GL=Opengl32.dll

[GLPROVIDERS]
Open GL=Opengl32.dll
DirectX=dx8wrap.dll

[NET]
speed=2000
routeChannels=0
serverChannels=11
localPort=21002
remotePort=21000
SkinDownload=0
serverName=Default
serverDescription=
remoteHost=
socksHost=
checkServerTimeSpeed=1
checkClientTimeSpeed=1

[MaxLag]
farMaxLagTime=10.0
nearMaxLagTime=2.0
cheaterWarningDelay=5.0
cheaterWarningNum=-1

[chat]
region=(dx=0.8359375,dy=0.14973958,x=0.0,y=0.0)
adr0=ALL
adr1=MY_ARMY

[game]
Arcade=1
HighGore=0
mapPadX=0.6738281
mapPadY=-0.037760418
viewSet=50
Intro=0
NoSubTitles=0
NoChatter=0
NoHudLog=0
NoLensFlare=1
iconTypes=3
eventlog=eventlog.lst
eventlogkeep=1


[HotKey game]
PrintScreen=ScreenShot
P=pause
Pause=pause

[HotKey gui]
Escape=activate

[HookViewFly Config]
timeFirstStep=2.0
deltaZ=10.0

[HookView]
MouseLeft=Len

[HookView Config]
AzimutSpeed=0.1
TangageSpeed=0.1
LenSpeed=1.0
MinLen=1.0
DefaultLen=20.0
MaxLen=1500.0
Speed=6

[HotKey builder]
MouseLeft=objectMove
MouseRight=popupmenu
Enter=freeView
Shift MouseLeft=worldZoom
Alt MouseLeft=select+
Alt MouseRight=select-
Alt Ctrl=unselect
PageDown=change+
PageUp=change-
End=change++
Home=change--
Ctrl MouseLeft=insert+
Insert=insert+
NumPad-0=insert+
F=fill
Ctrl MouseRight=delete+
NumPad.=delete+
Delete=delete+
Backspace=cursor
Tab=cursor
F10=land
F11=onLand
NumPad-=normalLand
NumPad+=toLand
NumPad-5=resetAngles
NumPad-8=resetTangage90
NumPad-7=stepAzimut-5
NumPad-4=stepAzimut-15
NumPad-1=stepAzimut-30
NumPad-9=stepAzimut5
NumPad-6=stepAzimut15
NumPad-3=stepAzimut30

[MouseXYZ]
F1=SpeedSlow
F2=SpeedNormal
F3=SpeedFast
MouseRight=XYmove
F4 MouseRight=Zmove
MouseMiddle=Amove
F5 MouseRight=Amove
F6 MouseRight=Tmove
F7 MouseRight=Kmove

[MouseXYZ Config]
RealTime=1

[HotKey Console]
Shift Tab=Activate

[Console]
HISTORY=1024
HISTORYCMD=1024
LOAD=console.cmd
SAVE=console.cmd
LOG=0
LOGTIME=0
LOGFILE=log.lst
LOGKEEP=0

[sound]
SoundUse=1
SoundEngine=1
Speakers=1
Placement=0
SoundFlags.reversestereo=0
RadioFlags.Enabled=0
RadioEngine=2
MusicVolume=8
ObjectVolume=9
MusState.takeoff=0
MusState.inflight=0
MusState.crash=0
MusFlags.play=0
MasterVolume=5
Attenuation=7
SoundMode=1
SamplingRate=1
NumChannels=1
SoundExt.occlusions=0
SoundFlags.hardware=1
SoundFlags.streams=1
SoundFlags.duplex=1
SoundExt.acoustics=0
SoundExt.volumefx=0
SoundFlags.voicemgr=0
SoundFlags.static=1
VoiceVolume=12
Channels=2
SoundExt.extrender=0
SoundFlags.bugscorrect=0
SoundSetupId=9
ActivationLevel=0.02
Preemphasis=0.85
RadioLatency=0.5
AGC=1
PTTMode=1
SoundFlags.UseRadioChatter=0
SoundFlags.AutoActivation=0
RadioFlags.PTTMode=0
RadioFlags.PlayClicks=0
ActLevel=0
MicLevel=0

[rts]
;ProcessAffinityMask=1
mouseUse=2
joyUse=1
trackIRUse=1
DisableIME=0
locale=

[rts_mouse]
SensitivityX=1.0
SensitivityY=1.0
Invert=0
SensitivityZ=1.0

[rts_joystick]
X=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Y=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Z=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
RZ=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
FF=0
U=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
V=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1X=0 13 21 28 39 53 65 77 88 96 100 0
1Y=0 22 28 37 45 54 65 77 88 97 100 0
1RX=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1RZ=0 35 41 48 56 67 76 82 89 95 100 0
1U=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1V=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Z=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1X1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Y1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1RX1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1RZ1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1U1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1V1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

[Render_DirectX]
TexQual=3
TexMipFilter=2
TexCompress=0
TexFlags.UseDither=1
TexFlags.UseAlpha=0
TexFlags.UseIndex=0
TexFlags.PolygonStipple=1
TexFlags.UseClampedSprites=0
TexFlags.DrawLandByTriangles=1
TexFlags.UseVertexArrays=1
TexFlags.DisableAPIExtensions=0
TexFlags.ARBMultitextureExt=1
TexFlags.TexEnvCombineExt=1
TexFlags.SecondaryColorExt=1
TexFlags.VertexArrayExt=1
TexFlags.ClipHintExt=0
TexFlags.UsePaletteExt=0
TexFlags.TexAnisotropicExt=0
TexFlags.TexCompressARBExt=1
TexFlags.TexEnvCombine4NV=0
TexFlags.TexEnvCombineDot3=0
TexFlags.DepthClampNV=0
TexFlags.SeparateSpecular=0
TexFlags.TextureShaderNV=0

HardwareShaders=0

Shadows=2
Specular=2
SpecularLight=2
DiffuseLight=2
DynamicalLights=1
MeshDetail=2
VisibilityDistance=3

Sky=2
Forest=1
LandShading=2
LandDetails=2

LandGeom=2
TexLarge=1
TexLandQual=3
TexLandLarge=1

VideoSetupId=4

[Render_OpenGL]
TexQual=3
TexMipFilter=2
TexCompress=2
TexFlags.UseDither=1
TexFlags.UseAlpha=0
TexFlags.UseIndex=0
TexFlags.PolygonStipple=0
TexFlags.UseClampedSprites=0
TexFlags.DrawLandByTriangles=1
TexFlags.UseVertexArrays=1
TexFlags.DisableAPIExtensions=0
TexFlags.ARBMultitextureExt=1
TexFlags.TexEnvCombineExt=1
TexFlags.SecondaryColorExt=1
TexFlags.VertexArrayExt=1
TexFlags.ClipHintExt=0
TexFlags.UsePaletteExt=0
TexFlags.TexAnisotropicExt=1
TexFlags.TexCompressARBExt=1

TexFlags.TexEnvCombine4NV=1
TexFlags.TexEnvCombineDot3=1
TexFlags.DepthClampNV=1
TexFlags.SeparateSpecular=1
TexFlags.TextureShaderNV=1

HardwareShaders=0

Shadows=1
Specular=2
SpecularLight=2
DiffuseLight=2
DynamicalLights=1
MeshDetail=2
VisibilityDistance=3

Sky=1
Forest=1
LandShading=2
LandDetails=2

LandGeom=2
TexLarge=1
TexLandQual=3
TexLandLarge=0

VideoSetupId=15
Water=1

[DGen]
NoBadWeather
RandomFlights=5
MissionDistance=30
CampaignMissions=Hard
CampaignAI=Easy



Mission file for comaparison on other systems:

[MAIN]
MAP Crimea/load.ini
TIME 12.0
CloudType 0
CloudHeight 1000.0
army 1
playerNum 0
[Wing]
r0100
r0101
r0102
r0103
[r0100]
Planes 4
Skill 1
Class air.PE_2SERIES1
Fuel 100
weapons 6fab50
[r0100_Way]
NORMFLY 232187.89 60180.72 1500.00 300.00
GATTACK 241758.29 42489.98 1500.00 300.00 13_Static 0
NORMFLY 249733.63 40024.88 1500.00 300.00
[r0101]
Planes 4
Skill 1
Class air.PE_2SERIES1
Fuel 100
weapons default
[r0101_Way]
NORMFLY 219137.34 41474.94 1500.00 300.00
NORMFLY 245528.45 41474.94 1500.00 300.00
[r0102]
Planes 4
Skill 1
Class air.PE_2SERIES1
Fuel 100
weapons default
[r0102_Way]
NORMFLY 217832.29 42489.98 1500.00 300.00
NORMFLY 246543.49 43360.02 1500.00 300.00
[r0103]
Planes 4
Skill 1
Class air.PE_2SERIES1
Fuel 100
weapons default
[r0103_Way]
NORMFLY 220442.40 40314.89 1500.00 300.00
NORMFLY 247123.52 38429.81 1500.00 300.00
[NStationary]
0_Static ships.Ship$Tirpitz 2 244104.01 39321.03 360.00 0.0
1_Static ships.Ship$Tirpitz 2 243526.39 38598.85 360.00 0.0
3_Static ships.Ship$Tirpitz 2 243154.07 40341.30 360.00 0.0
2_Static ships.Ship$Tirpitz 2 244021.40 39766.69 360.00 0.0
4_Static ships.Ship$SubTypeVIIC_Srf 2 249586.15 42419.40 360.00 0.0
5_Static ships.Ship$SubTypeVIIC_Srf 2 248562.06 41889.58 360.00 0.0
6_Static ships.Ship$SubTypeVIIC_Srf 2 248614.33 42301.96 360.00 0.0
7_Static ships.Ship$SubTypeVIIC_Srf 2 249675.59 41942.55 360.00 0.0
8_Static ships.Ship$Niobe 2 244277.77 43799.16 360.00 0.0
9_Static ships.Ship$Niobe 2 243227.12 42676.06 360.00 0.0
10_Static ships.Ship$Niobe 2 243616.55 42083.94 360.00 0.0
11_Static ships.Ship$Niobe 2 243694.100 43274.40 360.00 0.0
12_Static ships.Ship$Niobe 2 244577.89 42155.19 360.00 0.0
13_Static ships.Ship$Niobe 2 243409.75 43898.32 360.00 0.0
14_Static ships.Ship$Niobe 2 244129.80 42721.35 360.00 0.0

[StaticCamera]
241694 40734 100
[Bridge]
[House]

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Tully__
04-10-2004, 02:33 AM
Luthier, I obviously suffer this problem, if you'd like I'll run more tests with various ships and ship numbers (and land based AA???) to try to narrow down which ammunition is responsible for the dramatic drop. If you have any particular test conditions you'd like me to apply let me know here.

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Tully__
04-10-2004, 06:23 AM
Further data.

Some framerate loss is experience even when not looking at the AA. It may have something to do with sound?

Also, can anyone suggest a way to test this with parachutes excluded as an influence? Without being able to isolate parachutes, it's really hard to tell if it's the AA or the parachutes causing the framerate drop.

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clint-ruin
04-10-2004, 07:18 AM
Just some general thoughts on this:

Il-2 and FB have always hated 'busy' sections of a map. You can have hundreds of aircraft or ships in a mission, and as long as they're not actually within range/firing range of each other, framerate is usually OK, even on relatively low end systems.

What the Tripitz/Niobe represent is some 60+ odd units of AA compressed into a very small section of the map. When aircraft enter that section, FB seems to run each pieces tracking algorithm independently of the other - ships can track and shoot multiple targets at one time if need be.

When you introduce parachutes, particularly from bombers, you are in effect introducing 5 to 10 new targets for the AA to track, usually right on top of it - they are immediately in range of most if not all of the AA pieces onboard.

I would strongly suspect that the real killer influence on this is the on-die cache of the CPU, CPU frequency, memory frequency, and CPU to memory bandwidth.

FWIW, my Athlon Tbird running at 1650, 200 [400]mhz bus, 512MB of Corsair 3200LL ram and A7N8X runs heavy AA/ship missions as badly with the current TNT2 Vanta as it did with a 4600-ish speed overclocked Nvidia Ti4200. Badly means "when things get heavy the entire machine heaves and pauses occasionally in between running at about 8fps".

I would expect quad pumped P-4s, especially ones with lots of extra juicy cache, would do a lot better.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

Aztek_Eagle
04-10-2004, 09:13 AM
i have pro blem wiht fps to.... i think the aaa is way to visible in some ships, i got plenty of video library wiht places like midway and only at nite u could see those tracers so sharply

http://www.angelfire.com/art2/robertosgallery/CORSAIR8.JPG

Aztek_Eagle
04-10-2004, 09:16 AM
why my signature still no work....

http://www.angelfire.com/art2/robertosgallery/CORSAIR8.JPG

Aztek_Eagle
04-10-2004, 09:16 AM
ho goody it w3orks!

http://www.angelfire.com/art2/robertosgallery/CORSAIR8.JPG

Tully__
04-10-2004, 09:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aztek_Eagle:
ho goody it w3orks!

http://www.angelfire.com/art2/robertosgallery/CORSAIR8.JPG <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's also too big.

Please reduce to -

Dimension limit: 400x200 pixels
File size limit: 30KB

Yours is too wide.

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Aztek_Eagle
04-10-2004, 01:56 PM
it is only 19 kb

http://www.angelfire.com/art2/robertosgallery/CORSAIR8.JPG

Tully__
04-10-2004, 01:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aztec_Eagle:
it is only 19 kb
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's still too wide.

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heywooood
04-10-2004, 10:00 PM
This is a really interesting thread too..smoke really kills my framerates to death.

and you know - my rig stutters, no it hangs for a second or two, when a plane or flight spawns, also.

for instance - offline mission/campaign - I am in flight when another plane or flight is born elswhere on the map.. my comp hangs/stops for a second.. is it related to your topic?..

clint-ruin
04-10-2004, 11:59 PM
Planes spawning stutters are most likely caused by having to load the entire model from disk freshly, and having to load the mesh/lods/textures into memory.

As far as I know one of the problems with OpenGL is that there is no way to query and find out what data is being stored on the cards memory and what is in main system memory and what is cached. This can result in textures 'falling out' of the card or having to re-load multiple textures back into memory when caching fails. Tim Sweeney of UT fame went on a crusade to fix this a while back, don't know if he ever got it changed for 1.3/2.0. I'm pretty sure FB is 100% native OpenGl and just uses a wrapper for DirectX support, so it's unlikely this stuttering would stop by switching to DX rendering.

Some people have had luck with pre-loading the model/default textures by placing static aircraft on the ground that they intend to spawn in later, but this has never worked for me [with either a Ti4200, Kyro2, or TNT2].

I would say it's unlikely that this is the cause of the ship AA problems except in cases of extremely low video memory [32mb with no supported compression, 16mb, etc]. Even then it would probably only have an effect when the smoke trail textures or other such data first appears in the mission.

Someone who knows more about the inner workings of the OpenGL API might be able to say more about why this happens or correct me if I'm wrong :&gt;

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg