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Yggdrasil_67
06-16-2015, 04:48 AM
Am I the only one who thinks killing npc units in one hit feels a bit unfulfilling or ungratifying? I mean sure your character is like a hero or something similar but I think it would feel better to fight against AI if they didn't die instantly but in 2 or 3 hits instead? I don't know about you all but killing enemies in one hit feels kinda mind-numbing to me and that worries me, to be honest.

Of course that's what I think, what are your opinions concerning AI units?

odi0n2009
06-16-2015, 09:46 AM
That's how it should be. The focus is on the human players. AI are meant to be fodder like when playing MOBA games. Maybe they might introduce us to tougher units that are up in rank in future reveals of the game.

But the main premise of this game (thematic wise) it's a MOBA in a different form, hence, the AI are fodder, for as the match progresses, you are leveling up, unlocking abilities by killing that AI fodder aka farming. Your concern should be focused on the human opposition not the AI.

Read the IGN.com article 12 things you didn't know about For Honor. And you will understand better.

Personally I like it how it is. I see the big picture.

Dat_Boi.
06-16-2015, 12:38 PM
Indeed, they are weak, but I think that they are just like how the person above me stated. In MOBA games you get minions to farm and so on, they aren't powerful either. They are there to help you progress and so on, the focus being on the real PvP experience.

If you want to read the article that Odion mentioned above, you can find it by searching: "11 facts about for honor you probably didn't know".

Enjoy!

Yggdrasil_67
06-16-2015, 08:22 PM
From what I can gather this doesn't look that much like a moba (other than maybe gaining experience by killing AI soldiers) it feels more like an arena brawler game, or almost like a musou, with swordplay. AI units are obviously not the focus as I understand but it felt as if we're feeding on them instead of fighting them, kinda kills the feel of a battlefield for me. I know it's a competitive game but I'd love to see units that can take a hit or two.

SonicRainboom24
06-16-2015, 10:16 PM
From what I can gather this doesn't look that much like a moba (other than maybe gaining experience by killing AI soldiers) it feels more like an arena brawler game, or almost like a musou, with swordplay. AI units are obviously not the focus as I understand but it felt as if we're feeding on them instead of fighting them, kinda kills the feel of a battlefield for me. I know it's a competitive game but I'd love to see units that can take a hit or two.

Yeah, no. This game is a straight tactical MOBA, it has nearly every aspect of one.

slicknick99
06-17-2015, 04:50 AM
I agree with the OP. I don"t think the players should be able to one-shot npc's (perhaps at higher lvl). but instead if you made each individual npc's just a little bit more difficult to kill it would add a layer off difficulty and realism. Imagine if you could somehow incorporate elite npc units? Nothing too strong ofcourse because the idea is too feel like a badass on the battlefield right? but I think an addition like that could really add to gameplay, giving you someone else to fear and keep a look out for on the battlefield.

Serdones
06-17-2015, 10:33 AM
Yeah, I think the comparison to MOBAs is really apt. I also didn't know about the IGN article, but now I wish I'd read before I made a thread in general. Oh, well.

Actually, I can't find that IGN article. Didn't turn up when I searched For Honor on IGN and when I Googled "12 things you didn't know about For Honor" in quotes (forget how exactly that affects the search algorithms, but Googling without quotes wasn't turning up the article either), the only result was this thread. So if someone could link the article, that'd be graaaaaaaand.

Anyway, like has been said, the AI units are like League of Legends' minions. They're fodder for the heroes, but still play a role in taking control points, managing space, putting pressure on enemy heroes, etc.. You could also think of them sort as weaker units in Dynasty Warrior games--they're there for you to beast through. If the MOBA-esque mid-match progression system is true, they're also necessary for you to beef up your character for the hero-on-hero encounters.

[Edit] Found it. Searching is really hard, guize.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/16/11-facts-about-for-honor-you-probably-didnt-know

Yugureki
06-17-2015, 10:39 AM
Yeah, I think the comparison to MOBAs is really apt. I also didn't know about the IGN article, but now I wish I'd read before I made a thread in general. Oh, well.

Actually, I can't find that IGN article. Didn't turn up when I searched For Honor on IGN and when I Googled "12 things you didn't know about For Honor" in quotes (forget how exactly that affects the search algorithms, but Googling without quotes wasn't turning up the article either), the only result was this thread. So if someone could link the article, that'd be graaaaaaaand.

Anyway, like has been said, the AI units are like League of Legends' minions. They're fodder for the heroes, but still play a role in taking control points, managing space, putting pressure on enemy heroes, etc.. You could also think of them sort as weaker units in Dynasty Warrior games--they're there for you to beast through. If the MOBA-esque mid-match progression system is true, they're also necessary for you to beef up your character for the hero-on-hero encounters.

[Edit] Found it. Searching is really hard, guize.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/16/11-facts-about-for-honor-you-probably-didnt-know

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/16/11-facts-about-for-honor-you-probably-didnt-know?abthid=557fc2695afd85ee5c00006b

There you go Serdones.

Edit: Literally a minute apart from posting the link you edit your post and add the link GG

Serdones
06-17-2015, 10:41 AM
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/16/11-facts-about-for-honor-you-probably-didnt-know?abthid=557fc2695afd85ee5c00006b

There you go Serdones.

Edit: Literally a minute apart from posting the link you edit your post and add the link GG

You tried.

Appreciate it.

[Edit] The article does say the AI units can be killed for points. I wonder if they feed into your hero's mid-match progression like in a MOBA. The IGN article says, "Special abilities are mapped to the D-Pad, and are unlocked if you manage to score consecutive skills (sic)." Assuming he meant "kills" by "skills," because getting consecutive AI unit kills isn't exactly a challenge, I assume it refers to player kills. So unlocking your Active Feats sounds like it might be more analogous to FPS kill streaks than a MOBA's mid-match progression system. The IGN article also compares the match types to traditional shooters, which, on a side note, shouldn't be disheartening to people who dislike shooters. Chivalry shares a lot of match types with FPSes, at least in concept, but it's still freakin' Chivalry.

There's also the possibility killing AI units feeds into Active Feats unlocks fractionally compared to killing an enemy player. I thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiink that's how Titanfall did it, where you could still get kill streaks on just AI units, but each one was worth less, but I really didn't play a lot, so I 'unno.

mummia84
06-17-2015, 05:30 PM
I think a 2 hit kill would do the trick, like first breaking their guard and ultimatley kill them. On the other hand if this game is a moba type of game then a one shot kill for "lesser minions" is ok if you ask me. Maybe the developers could implement "lesser knights" of some sort that could take more than one hit and provide lets say 3 to 4 additional points for the player pretty much as cannons on LoL. What do you guys think of this?

SpaceElephant
06-17-2015, 08:11 PM
Hey guys! Indeed, the minion NPCs can be killed pretty easily for points, but don't underestimate them !! They have a pretty good AI, and when they surround you in group, they can give you a hard time. There's also pretty cool stuff you can do with them. We'll show you more in the future!

Sixty-nl
06-17-2015, 09:27 PM
Hey guys! Indeed, the minion NPCs can be killed pretty easily for points, but don't underestimate them !! They have a pretty good AI, and when they surround you in group, they can give you a hard time. There's also pretty cool stuff you can do with them. We'll show you more in the future!

pretty cool stuff we can do with them? dammit, now i am even more curious.

tarumania
06-18-2015, 08:08 AM
Hey guys! Indeed, the minion NPCs can be killed pretty easily for points, but don't underestimate them !! They have a pretty good AI, and when they surround you in group, they can give you a hard time. There's also pretty cool stuff you can do with them. We'll show you more in the future!

First off, awesome multiplayer trailer, first time I post anywhere about a video game. With that said, despite what you said, the AI still needs better improvements, otherwise this will be a "Dynasty Warrior" game with PVP. I suggest instead of just having a "feat" such as the Samurai's random call of arrows, we have more commands of the npc groupings. For example, if you want to defend a critical choke point for the team, tell the Vikings to bunker down behind their shields and then the user can jump off the stacks of shields into enemy lines and demolish the opponents defensive posture with an AOE tomahawk slam

or... even better yet, go inside that wall of shields with the troops and go first person view mode to stab the opponents with your spear (if they used them).

or.... while inside, the right analog stick now becomes mini-orders to open the wall so the user can charge and attack, retreat, and the wall closes again.

Ok, i'm done.

If its too late to change the "feat" system, at least have a wide variety. Good luck. Oh yeah, this coming out on PS4? lol, i didnt catch that.

Sixty-nl
06-18-2015, 10:28 AM
on the ubi stage during the reveal they where playing with PS4 controllers, so i assume it comes out on PS4 yeah. But if i am correct also on xbox and pc

Erfa100
06-18-2015, 10:51 AM
I think they can use their sword-fighting gameplay in this part as well, so if the AI holds his sword in the same direction, he can counter as many attacks as you hit him with but, unlike other players, they only have one bar of health instead of four; one successful strike can be enough to kill them.
This might be how it is right now, it was just hard to tell with AI dying right and left :P

spaff_meister
06-18-2015, 02:34 PM
It would be really nice to see a "Commander" class who can use feats to buff troops such as command them into formations such as shield walls; to spur them on with renewed vigour/damage; to cause them to respawn quicker.

Assassin_M
06-18-2015, 04:30 PM
Trust me, it may LOOK easy but fighting these guys in hordes can be trouble. You constantly have to watch your back too, they're definitely not mindless fodder, they WILL attack and harm you. I'd say it sets a great balance because most of your time, you'll be locked in one-on-one battles anyway, so having these guys be 1 hit kills balances the gameplay perfectly, I think. Having them be 3 hits or 4 would break the game.