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Merlini.a.f.
02-05-2004, 07:44 AM
Some of you may have noticed, some may have not...
apparetnley the propellers can`t be destroyed....i mean if a prop blade hits, say, a 30mm cannon shell (or the otherway around) it (the shell) explodes, and destroys the blade, leaving the prop unbalaced and shaking untill total desintegration.....how come that doesn`t happen in Il2 ???
10x

Merlini.a.f.
02-05-2004, 07:44 AM
Some of you may have noticed, some may have not...
apparetnley the propellers can`t be destroyed....i mean if a prop blade hits, say, a 30mm cannon shell (or the otherway around) it (the shell) explodes, and destroys the blade, leaving the prop unbalaced and shaking untill total desintegration.....how come that doesn`t happen in Il2 ???
10x

HansKnappstick
02-05-2004, 07:47 AM
How do you see that the blade was hit?

Merlini.a.f.
02-05-2004, 07:52 AM
i can`t see it. i`ve been playing the game for almost a year now
and even with small machineguns 1500 rpm, straight from 6 o'clock......nothing happened ever.....i mean c`mon the props weren`t made of adamantium or diamonds....

VW-IceFire
02-05-2004, 07:56 AM
A bazillion times have I shot up the enemies engine having their prop jam and their plane slowly glide down into the weeds. Thats quite enough for me...engine failure/prop failure either works for me. I bet there are some things not modeled with regards to bullets hiting the prop...but that seems like DM overkill at this point.

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michapma
02-05-2004, 07:56 AM
Well, perhaps you are expecting too much of the simulation. Think of the complexity of actually tracking an object rotating at 2000-3000 rpm and whether it will be hit by a bullet. Instead, try crash-landing and seeing whether the prop is indestructible.

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zugfuhrer
02-05-2004, 08:11 AM
Ive seen a guncamera movie where a Me-110 attacks a Flying Fortress from asterna. It starts at aprox 400 m and the film ends when the Me is at aprox 25 m. The Me shoots a lot of ammo and you can clearly se the explosions when the shells impact the hull and frame. When the fire is directed towards the engines there are explosions and sparks clearly observed in the area of the propellers. Many tracers passes it but some must hit the propeller blades.

By the way there where gunners that shoot back on the Me but the reargunner was silenced after a while and the turret on top of the fortress shoot to high.

Merlini.a.f.
02-05-2004, 08:11 AM
i guess you guys are right......we don`t have the cpu power to modell damage to a prop.......although i have a vague idea of how it might be achieved, but that`s trivial already....10x

TgD Thunderbolt56
02-05-2004, 08:13 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by michapma:
Well, perhaps you are expecting too much of the simulation. Think of the complexity of actually tracking an object rotating at 2000-3000 rpm and whether it will be hit by a bullet. Instead, try crash-landing and seeing whether the prop is indestructible.



What he said. In fact I'd pay good money for a prop that doesn't bend when I get a little too low and aggressive on that mudmoving sortie. I can't tell you how many times I've had a prop strike and had to resort to my escape and evade tactics just to make it back to my unit cold tired and hungry 3 days later!

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SpinSpinSugar
02-05-2004, 08:19 AM
You wouldn't need to bother calculating where the propellor blades are at any given time, just an approximate hit percentage based upon the rate of fire of the weapon and an "average" figure for engine rpm. It would be pretty low, I'm sure, given how exactly you'd have to be lined up to fire through the prop of another aircraft anyhows.

As above though, the current engine damage modelling is fine with me. Though clearly more complex models would be great in BoB, a prop engine shaking itself apart in such a manner would look great from a gun camera.

Cheers, SSS

georgeo76
02-05-2004, 08:25 AM
I agree that the propeller should take damage from enemy fire, and it doesn't seem to. However, the prop is a poor target, and it's invulnerability to shells is a minor detail when you consider the otherwise complex and dynamic DM.


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michapma
02-05-2004, 08:27 AM
First I'd like to see engine detonation modeled, and the CSP routines refined...

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p1ngu666
02-05-2004, 10:34 AM
prop damage would be great
and radiator damage..

porcupine1
02-08-2004, 04:46 AM
http://users.pandora.be/airwareurope/eremb1102.jpg
http://users.pandora.be/airwareurope/eremb1101.jpg
thought these pics should go in here http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Friendly_flyer
02-08-2004, 05:06 AM
Would it be absolutely necessary to model exactly what goes on when bullets passes through a propeller? One could just make a simple statistical probability model, let's say a cumulative 2% chance of the propeller going when a bullet passes through it.

Fly friendly!

Petter Bøckman
Norway

tsisqua
02-08-2004, 07:58 AM
This has been posted about before on the old forum. Try this. While sitting on the ground try firing nose mounted MG's at the prop with the engine not running. Even if you bump the prop around by starting and stoping the engine, the shells pass through the prop blades with no damage. This was done to model the synchronization of MG and blades. Not a big issue for me, but yes, it would be cool if this could be done.

Tsisqua

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Kampfmeister
02-08-2004, 08:47 AM
I was going to post a question about this subject, but someone beat me to it. I've always wondered about this aspect in the game, especially when I am playing a rear gunner on a bomber. Whether it be German using the 7.92mm peashooter or the more powerful 12.7mm Russian weapon. I know that fighters have an interrupter mechanism to prevent them from shooting their own propeller, but what if someone else is shooting at your prop.

Many times while playing the rear gunner the opposing fighter gets in close enough behind me that I am shooting directly into his prop or at least it appears that way. What happens to my bullets at that point? Are some managing to go through the prop and hit the plane, while others are being deflected away? Shouldn't a lot of my bullets be damaging the opposing player's propeller? Any information on what would occur in the real world? Did a lot of fighters receive prop damage from bomber,s defensive fire?

ZG77_Lignite
02-08-2004, 09:09 AM
It would be great if someone could re-post that excellent U.S. Navy report on damage/lost aircraft (Sept1944-Aug1945), that lists types of damage recieved, to loss of aircraft (meaning unable to return to friendly base).

I believe it says that 9 aircraft (out of 501 total damaged aircraft), recieved damage to the propellor, and 0 were lost. No doubt this is not giving the whole picture, but it does give an indication as to the likely hood of prop damage due to enemy fire.

I believe pilot/control hits where the most deadly, with 97 aircraft 'damaged' in such a way, and 76 of those 97 lost (again, out of 501 total damaged).

Bruusteri
02-08-2004, 09:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Merlini.a.f.:
Some of you may have noticed, some may have not...
apparetnley the propellers can`t be destroyed....i mean if a prop blade hits, say, a 30mm cannon shell (or the otherway around) it (the shell) explodes, and destroys the blade, leaving the prop unbalaced and shaking untill total desintegration.....how come that doesn`t happen in Il2 ???
10x<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A prop blade is not necessarily destroyed even with a 20mm shell (I don't know about 30mm). I have a game called Battlehawks 1942 (published by Lucasfilm in 1987). It has a good manual with many photos from the pacific theatre. In one pic (page 19, in my manual) a US navy pilot is holding a prop blade which has a hole size of an orange. The metal around the hole is twisted like petals in a flower. Text says the hole was caused by a 20mm cannon shell (from a Zero probably). Too bad that I don't have a scanner. Probably he managed to land the plane as he still has the prop blade (otherwise it would in the bottom of the sea?).

Cheers