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View Full Version : Carrier Landings Made Easy!



VF-3Thunderboy
06-15-2004, 09:14 PM
...You just need to stick to a formula. I keep flaps down, gear down, tailhook down, and fly at 180 ft or so at about 105 kts constant(CFS2). Once you get the hang of tootling around at 105 knots dirty, then you just need some timing cutting throttle, and ploinking her down around 70 kts. With a moving carrier, you need to time it so you dont get boinked on the upstroke, like a ping pong ball.So you cheat and figure the time for one "bobble". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

VF-3Thunderboy
06-15-2004, 09:14 PM
...You just need to stick to a formula. I keep flaps down, gear down, tailhook down, and fly at 180 ft or so at about 105 kts constant(CFS2). Once you get the hang of tootling around at 105 knots dirty, then you just need some timing cutting throttle, and ploinking her down around 70 kts. With a moving carrier, you need to time it so you dont get boinked on the upstroke, like a ping pong ball.So you cheat and figure the time for one "bobble". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

heywooood
06-15-2004, 10:00 PM
http://www.geocities.com/invictusdomini/insert_brain.gif

uh-huh..."bobble"...hmmm.."formula"..

oooohhhh Donuts!!!

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/3tbm_avenger.jpg
Goin'fishin'

Fliger747
06-16-2004, 12:23 AM
A good start! Try Vidar's web page, or go over to AvHistory.org and chezch out a link to "VF15". Both have some historicaly based WI type carrier ops techniques that work well. Especially the curved approach with helps put you in the groove on short final.

Woodrow79
06-16-2004, 03:16 AM
You give a good description of how we do it in normal carrier ops Thunderboy.

The way Vidar and the Blacksheep do it is very close to how we do carrier ops and landings in the VF-15. Their carrier training mission for FB is quite impressive. I have IL2 but only fly in CFS2 as I am a PTO freak!

For CFS2
On final, you trim out for 95-110kts, flaps down, gear down, hook down. It is usually a good idea to trim the elevator so you can fly level without touching the stick at 100-200ft or so ASL.

After making the third turn off of the downwind leg to the baseleg towards the stern of the carrier, you start crabbing towards the stern. Use the rudder alot. My best suggestion is to get to know the rudder quite well. It makes flying in general and landing on carriers alot easier. It also prepares you for crosswind landings.

When you get close enough to the 'groove', a flight path in-line with the deck, you bank left into the groove about 100 meters from the deck(5-6 seconds from landing). I like to be at about 150-180ft ASL at this point. If landing on a static carrier, 85-90kts, if on a moving carrier, 90-100kts. As soon as you pull into the groove, start reducing throttle to descend towards the deck. If you have the plane trimmed out well, then all you should have to do is use the throttle, with only slight(if any) adjustments with the stick. Also, we fly the 1% CFS2 aircraft from avhistory, and have highly detailed VC's in many of the planes we fly the most. Virtual Cockpit makes it alot easier to land on the deck, as you can actually see where you are going! And if the instrument panel does get in the way, use the rudder to fishtail right then left to see where you are in relation to the deck. It will take a few runs like this to get the feel for it, but once you do, it makes the whole thing fairly easy. Then you just get a feel for when when to cut throttle and land.
I've only been flying in CFS2 for maybe 4-5 months and carrier landings are now rather ordinary. I can cut throttle when still 7-8 plane lengths from the deck (if necessary) and glide in and catch the wire. It is all just getting the feel for it.

We flew a reenactment of the Dolittle raid this past weekend and landed 6-7 B-25s equipped with tailhooks on deck, taxied, and launched for the mission. Cool as hell to be sitting on deck and watch those bombers taking off from deck.

The carrier ops manual that Fliger mentioned is on the training page of the VF-15 site, and I think on the download page at Sim-Outhouse.
I'm keeping track of PF and am looking forward to what they come out with!

http://www.vf15-flyingaces.com/vf15_fighting_aces_intro.htm


S!

VF15_Hicks

GT182
06-16-2004, 07:20 AM
Woodrow79, you guys over at VF15 have one great looking site and your training program looks topnotch. ~S!~

"GT182" / "Stab/JG51_vonSpinmeister"
www.bombs-away.net (http://www.bombs-away.net)
"Fly to Survive, Survive to Fly"

VF-3Thunderboy
06-16-2004, 07:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>duh-huh..."bobble"...hmmm.."formula"..

oooohhhh Donuts!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this a flame? LMAO! YOu dare flame Da Tunderboya?

BOBBLE: as in "BOBBLE-HEAD" Apparently ya dont have CFS2 installed! To add some Bobble, IE: Back,forth,up,down, just add these lines to the ship: Just looking at it rock up and down, back and forth, on approach makes you sea-sick!

Dynamics]
pitch_wave_moment_scale = 14
bank_wave_moment_scale = 20
pitch_damp_moment_scale = 2
bank_damp_moment_scale = 2

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

SKULLS_Exec01
06-16-2004, 10:11 AM
S! Great info on your site Woodrow, very nice!!
Almost makes me feel like reinstalling CFS2 again, ALMOST!! lol
Anyway - look forward to seeing you guys in PF over one of the carrier groups, maybe we can arrange a few join opts or something.

Texas LongHorn
06-16-2004, 10:22 AM
Hey Thunder, Could you be a little more specific? I just picked up CFS2 a few weeks ago and haven't had time to dive into the file structure. Where _exactly_ do I add the lines to get the Carrier bobble? Thanks in advance, LongHorn

http://img49.photobucket.com/albums/v149/msdavis/My_Sig_Image2.jpg

VF-3Thunderboy
06-16-2004, 01:00 PM
Add it to the ships configure &gt;CFG file. I think you could add it to all the ships, to make it feel more like a storm. The numbers I posted are !adjustable.So if you have alot of ships, they should all have some bobble in em, maybe not as much though.

Bring a barf bag, and lock your brakes after you land! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Fliger747
06-16-2004, 09:13 PM
Remember that "Chocks" aren't vitamins and chains....well never mind.

The best thing you can do is get a good set of rudder pedals and the best stick/throttle setup you can find. I splurged (Vidars advice) and bought the CH (USB) Pro's. Not perfect, but OK for the price and light years ahead of not having any. Good enough of an improvement that the STOCK F4U-1A is now flyable in CFS 2. Compared to the 1% F4U-1D it is still a "piece de la merd", but you can trap it OK.

In CFSIII it worked fom the start, in CFS II it took a bit of work (easy once you read the directions).

Woodrow79
06-17-2004, 02:11 PM
Thanks for the comments GT. All credit has to go to the C.O., X.O., T.O., and O.O. of the VF-15. I'm rather new to the squad. Those guys have done an incredible job with everything from training to mission building. Good to see you stop by.


S!

VF15_Hicks

Woodrow79
06-17-2004, 02:23 PM
Thanks Skulls.

Joint carrier ops sounds like a great idea when PF comes out. Always good to see alot of aircraft in the sky. It looks like Oleg is doing a good turn with PF so I hope it is as good as it looks when we finally get our hands on it.

S!

VF15_Hicks

BSS_Vidar
06-18-2004, 12:12 AM
Very nice CV ops guide your squadron has there. With a few tweeks between us to standardize terminology, our two squadrons could easily share the same flight deck.

S!

BSS_Vidar

Amanda_Hugnkiss
06-18-2004, 01:47 PM
LOL... I would not compare anything I did as a child (CFS Pilot) to what it takes to master the challenges of FB or PF. I think you will be hearing a lot of whiners saying the planes stall and spin too easily at 104 kts. You would be better off learning how the real pilots landed on carriers. Or better yet just watch the Discovery Channel the next time they show carrier landings. Hell I could consistantly land B-17's on the carriers in CFS2. You have many CFS "Aces" who can't even take off in FB. I imagine you had the cockpit turned off in CFS2 too...Didn't you...LOL

BSS_Vidar
06-18-2004, 04:31 PM
Interesting... I find the FB/AEP flight model alot easier to fly in the carrier pattern than that of the stock Corsair's in CFS2. It flies like a couch. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif The P-47 is the most challenging plane low, slow, and dirtied up in the pattern, and I've suggested to a number of folks to train with it in the BSS's Carrier Pattern Training Mission.

Take it from someone who does have 526 arrested landings in the real world. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BSS_Vidar

Fliger747
06-18-2004, 04:46 PM
Well gee whiz, one would think after 16,000 hrs of flying everything from a supercub to a 747-400 One might have some idea what REAL airplanes fly like. The stock CFS II planes have some wierd quirks, the 1% planes fly pretty well. Having flown IL2 and FB, I find those "planes" with some weird quirks as well that have not surfaced in any real aircraft I have been associated with.

A real aircraft can and should be demanding to fly precicely, a sim aircraft should as much as possible replicate that experience. The $50, million dollar sims that I get to (have to?) fly have for the most part "graphics" that you would snort at, but the do replicate the experience of FLYING really well.

I hope above all that time and effort is spent in achieving the aim of REAL flight charcteristics.

A C130 (a plane I used to fly) has been landed on a carrier, a plane a LOT bigger than a B-17! Indeed I can land an takoff a P61 quite well in CFSII, haven't tried it on one engine as yet, which has always been the bugaboo of non-centerline thrust multis and carrier ops. By the way, Vidar, did you guys practice single engine traps in the Viking?http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v249/fliger747/Black_widow_on_deck.jpg

Fliger747
06-18-2004, 07:40 PM
Doing a single engine trap in a big plane without a "hook" is "interesting". The VMCA of the "Widder" is about 140 knots or so, and touchdown much over 100 knots will use up all of the deck, so it is a "no waveoff deal", requiring good energy managment. The technique is a little different needing a steeper, reduced power approach with just enough "oomph" left for the roundout. Rudder trim must be neutralized or the plane will want to exit the deck post haste! http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v249/fliger747/single_engine_in_the_groove.jpg http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v249/fliger747/single_engine_on_deck.jpg

BSS_Vidar
06-18-2004, 08:15 PM
Hey 747,
Single engine was nothing we practiced anywhere near the boat. That all took place during FCLP's. (Field Carrier Landing Practice).
I have 2 actual single engine landings on the boat. One was a catrostrophic turbine failure, the other was a compressor stall. Countless single engine approaches in the OFT.
But what do I know? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BSS_Vidar

Fliger747
06-18-2004, 09:10 PM
Thats sounds like smart procedures! I've puked a couple over the years, but much like the B-36, the "dreaded 9 engine approcah" was no big deal. It's where the training kicks in.

500 or so is a lot of traps, a good thing to have survived!

Woodrow79
06-19-2004, 12:37 AM
Hey Vidar, thanks for the comments. Yes some of the terminology is a little different but basically similar procedures and the same result. I'm thinking if Pacific Fighters turns out anything like what it sounds and looks like it will be, there should be plenty of opportunity for the various squadrons represented here to recreate many of the great battles of the Pacific, like Midway and the Coral Sea, either squadron against squadron, or even combining squad members to form each side. Alot of possibilities.


S!

VF15_Hicks

Woodrow79
06-19-2004, 12:45 AM
Fliger, I'm wondering now.

Most of a computers usage to run a 3d sim is in producing the graphics. I always assumed that the high dollar simulators would produce not only near real FM's but also spectacularly close to real world graphics. Wondering why they don't?


S!

VF15_Hicks

Fliger747
06-19-2004, 10:46 AM
The "high dolar" sims have to be certified by an appropriate "body", in the case of the ones I fly these days it is the FAA. As a training device they have to exactly replicate all of the items in the cockpit, very circuit breaker, guage, lever and control, exactly as they operate in the real plane. In addition for full motion sims,they have to replicate the flying qualities exactly (new is better). The first time I was ever in a real 747-400 cockpit was on a revenue trip, sitting in the left seat! Not as scarry as it sounds, between my previous experienceand the sim training I was well prepared.

As to why the graphisc lag? Simply they are regarded as merely "eye candy" and not essential to the training goal, at least for instrument flying. remember that these sims are made in very limited numbers and tweaking up thegraphics to current levels would not be cost effective. These things run off of large mainframe computers which have to do a lot of things to move every (REAL) guage and produce all of the wild gyrations one sees from outside. The movements are not what one would think from insided the box, for instance acceleration or decelleration is a pitching moment!

I hope I anwered some of your question!

BSS_Vidar
06-19-2004, 12:01 PM
That would be an awesome COP mission. We have that kind of thing all ready in FB. One squadron could take up the Fighter/CAP aircraft positions on the flight deck while the other could take the Dive/Torp Bomber mission aircraft. Both squadron coordinated from the same carrier just like in the Battle of Midway! Man, I can't waite! Coordinating with other commands is gonna be a hoot! But we still need to come up with a standardization around the ship. The airspace is too refined to have different proceedures. Someone's bound to swap paint.
When the time comes, maybe we can get a group of squadrons together to come up with a standardization for flying around the ship very much like the rules generated for dogfighting in Ghost Skies.
The Blacksheep's carrier ops are based on information right out of the U.S. Navy's CV Natops. But there's nothing that says we can't bend the rulz a bit to get everyone on the same page. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Woodrow79,
If you think your skipper and command would be interested in working with the Blacksheep from the same flight deck, please let me know.

BSS_Staff@Yahoo.com or BSS_Vidar@Yahoo.com

It would be nice to work with another group that is all ready CV oriented.

S!

BSS_Vidar

Fliger747
06-19-2004, 12:19 PM
One squadron flies ( I believe) stock planes and the other 1%, does this present any problem?

BSS_Vidar
06-19-2004, 12:30 PM
In CFS2?, well, if no one else has that A/C downloaded, we'll see you as the defaulted AM2 Zeke. But we won't have to worry about that kind of thing in PF. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BSS_Vidar

Woodrow79
06-21-2004, 03:01 PM
Vidar I agree that there are alot of great scenarios possible if different squads fly together. One flying cap while the other flies bombers sounds very good. I'll have to talk to my C.O. and the rest of the squad.
I know the main goal of our squad is to recreate, as far as possible, the reality of flying in the PTO during WW2. That is the reason for using the 1% planes which require using the mixture, prop pitch, managing fuel in various tanks etc... not over or under G'ing. I don't remember how flying low and slow for carrier landings works in stock aircraft, but in the 1% you have to configure it correctly or the engine will overheat.

As I said I'm rather new to the squad so am not sure if they would be interested in inter-squad ops. I would assume yes, but I'll have to find out.

S!

VF15_Hicks