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View Full Version : What has happened after WW2 was over???



XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 06:51 PM
I was wondering as I read an article today about the Ju88. There the author wrote that when Germany surrendered the allies found hundrets of Ju88 standing around at airfields cause germany produced so many of them at the end of the war.

Now i started to wonder:

There are not too many German WW2 planes left in Germany and in Austria we don't have a single german WW2 in a museum althought we had factories and airfields. Now where are they all??? I know that there are more German WW2 planes in Britain and the US than here. When you have a flightshow here you have a P51 and maybe a B17 or someting but no German planes. Especially no Ju88 and no Bf110 (as far as I heard there is only one wreck which is being restored in Berlin for the Museum)tho there must have been so many nightfighters left when the war ended. Now there should've been quite a lot of German fighters left afer the war. Where are they? Did they take one for each little museum in the US and destroyed the rest??? Why don't we have any WW2 planes here??? Anyone knows what happened to those planes?

2 things we need in FB:
The 110 and the desert!!!
http://exn.ca/news/images/1999/04/23/19990423-Me110coloursideMAIN.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 06:51 PM
I was wondering as I read an article today about the Ju88. There the author wrote that when Germany surrendered the allies found hundrets of Ju88 standing around at airfields cause germany produced so many of them at the end of the war.

Now i started to wonder:

There are not too many German WW2 planes left in Germany and in Austria we don't have a single german WW2 in a museum althought we had factories and airfields. Now where are they all??? I know that there are more German WW2 planes in Britain and the US than here. When you have a flightshow here you have a P51 and maybe a B17 or someting but no German planes. Especially no Ju88 and no Bf110 (as far as I heard there is only one wreck which is being restored in Berlin for the Museum)tho there must have been so many nightfighters left when the war ended. Now there should've been quite a lot of German fighters left afer the war. Where are they? Did they take one for each little museum in the US and destroyed the rest??? Why don't we have any WW2 planes here??? Anyone knows what happened to those planes?

2 things we need in FB:
The 110 and the desert!!!
http://exn.ca/news/images/1999/04/23/19990423-Me110coloursideMAIN.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 07:05 PM
The same thing that happened to the AC from most countries. They were destroyed and used for scrap. Axis countries especially, for dual reasons. First, they were disarmed and except for a few examples of hi tech AC they were destroyed along w/ the tanks and rifles. Secondly, the Axis countries were ruined both physically and economically. The metal and components of the AC were needed to help rebuild.



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"Altitude, speed, maneuver, fire!"-The "formula of Terror" of Aleksandr Pokryshkin, Three times awarded the rank of Hero of the Soviet Union

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 07:26 PM
Most were scrapped, think about it, you have gone through a major war with Germany, Are you about to start allowing them to produce spares for their bombers etc?

A lot of the Heinkels that survived are due to continuing in service in Spain as Casa built examples, similar to the 109, these were also used by Spain re engine with the Merlin as the Buchan.......... A lot of these would have not survuived if it was not for the likes of The Battle Of Britain film that transported a lot to uk and hence ensured their survival

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 07:36 PM
...and btw most of the warbirds flying today are planes that were used even after the war in huge numbers, we dont have to forget that in order to keep a warbird in airworthy conditions u need A LOT of spare parts, and at least one extra-engine. We have the same problem here in italy, the museum has a mustang and a spit mk.IX but not a Fiat G.50,a Br.20 or other italian old birds. Most of the italian planes we have are wrecks recoverd from artillery schools /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

SJ

http://www.il2sturmovik.it

Visita il portale italiano di IL-2 Sturmovik!!!

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 08:05 PM
I also think that a lot of the LW planes that are now in museums or collections survived because the RAF and USAAC seized them and brought them home for testing.

Eventually, these war booty warbirds were scrapped or released to museums - in the US and UK.

If it was a model that didn't particularly interest the US or UK military, almost all copies ended up on the scrap heap.

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 08:18 PM
"Secondly, the Axis countries were ruined both physically and economically."

In fact, with the possible exception of the USA, so were the Allies too. For example, food rationing didn't end until 1949 in the UK and the Fifties were typified by the continuation of the gov't's Austerity program. Much of the war materiel scattered around Europe was buried and concreted over, as the cost & effort of returning the items to the countries of origin was unaffordable at that point in history. Large quantities of munitions were dumped at sea or destroyed in controlled explosions, while unserviceable vehicles were, as I say, just buried.
(In my part of Devon there are said to be more than a hundred unused ex-army Indian motorcycles under the foundations of a post-war factory ... we bikers have thought long and hard about that! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif But apart from all that concrete, not to mention the factory owners, it's highly illegal to dig up war debris in the UK without the express permission of the MoD ... mandatory gaol sentences and so on.)
Some of the rarer metals were gathered - copper was in short supply - but most of the ferrous items were either buried or left to rot. A notable example, though from another time, is Hammersmith Bridge over the Thames in London. It was constructed in the early twentieth century and coincided with the introduction of a new British infantry rifle. The metal portions of a whole generation of rifles, dating back to the Boer War, were used to reinforce the central piers of that bridge.
Serviceable gear was used by the Allies of course, to bolster the Occupying forces and strengthen the already-forming East-West partition of Europe, and I would guess that the surviving, useful Axis weapons were destroyed or confiscated by the victors. A lot of small arms were smuggled home by returning personnel - and the black market & the arms-dealers had a field day, as ever!

Sorry about the length of this, but I guess there's no clear-cut answer to the question.

Salutes all,

Brando

Stuff the fugitive....here comes the one-armed man!!

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 08:23 PM
There are a FEW surviving German a/c remaining in Germany. In the Munich (Munchen) area, I have seen a 2-seat Me-262 and a Bf-109G (?) series at the Deutsches Technisches Museum. And there is an He-111 which is on exhibit at an airfield museum north of the city (name escapes me).

Great town Munich, by the way. Love the people, the food, the history, the general vibrance of life there. Also a great football team (Bayern Munchen).



Blutarski

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 08:25 PM
I was in Munich. They have a Me262, a Ju52 and a Bf109E.

2 things we need in FB:
The 110 and the desert!!!
http://exn.ca/news/images/1999/04/23/19990423-Me110coloursideMAIN.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 09:22 PM
I read in "aero journal" that the french airforce flew some JU88 for a little while after the war- Squadron GB1/31 flew JU88's for a while.
Other planes used- often renamed were Arado 396, Fieseler Fi 156, Ju52/3m, Bf 108, Me 208
Major pbs with planes captured at the end of the year is that they hadn't been built to last very long so maintenance was a major issue and it was tough to keep em going.

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 10:44 PM
JV44Rall wrote:
- I also think that a lot of the LW planes that are
- now in museums or collections survived because the
- RAF and USAAC seized them and brought them home for
- testing.

you are refering American wise to Waltons Whizzers, check out this link for information on the survivors


http://www.stormbirds.com/squadron/home.htm

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 10:47 PM
Are there any Ju88s or Bf110s left somewhere in the world? I'd like to see them cause all i found so far were 109s 190s and Ju52s

2 things we need in FB:
The 110 and the desert!!!
http://exn.ca/news/images/1999/04/23/19990423-Me110coloursideMAIN.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 10:54 PM
Gershy wrote:
- Are there any Ju88s or Bf110s left somewhere in the
- world? I'd like to see them cause all i found so far
- were 109s 190s and Ju52s


Recently a complete Ju-88 nightfighter was raised from the lake Balaton (quite many planes are there, 2 Sturmoviks were also raised recently). I beleive it`s bound for some German museum, probably restaurated and displayed. (Berlin?)


http://www.x-plane.org/users/isegrim/FB-desktopweb.jpg
'Only a dead Indianer is a good Indianer!'

Vezérünk a Bátorság, K*sérµnk a Szerencse!
(Courage leads, Luck escorts us! - Historical motto of the 101st Puma Fighter Regiment)

Flight tests and other aviation performance data: http://www.pbase.com/isegrim

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 10:54 PM
Gershy wrote:
- Are there any Ju88s or Bf110s left somewhere in the
- world? I'd like to see them cause all i found so far
- were 109s 190s and Ju52s

You can find both at Hendon RAF Museum, at least they were there in 2001.

"Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but the pig enjoys it!"

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 03:15 AM
Axis Air Forces' machines were generally bulldozed & chopped up for scrap; as earlier explained, metals for civilian use were desperately needed, almost everyone was short of goods. As for US/British warbirds, if they weren't going to stay on the active rolls, they were either scrapped or sold cheap. Corsairs, Mustangs, and Lightnings were on the block for $10,000 USD in '46-47, and there weren't many takers, sad to say. The Royal Navy shoved dozens if not hundreds of Hellcats, Corsairs, and Wildcats off the fantails of their carriers after the end of hostilities because the requirements of the Lend Lease agreement would have required them to pay for the aircraft if they held on to them, and they finally had British built carrier capable planes in the pipeline. There were stories that over 200 P-38Ls were bulldozed and burned in Japan just a few months before North Korea began its invasion of the South (it would have been a much safer and more capable mudmover than the Mustangs that got stuck with the job, don't you think?)

Used to live in Tucson Arizona, where row after row of mothballed military aircraft waited to be brought back into service or broken up for the metals. When I was there, the B-47s and early model B-52s were the most noticable, but there were Skyhawks, Crusaders, dozens of F-101s and F-86s...very depressing for an airplane nut. Combined with the delayed p___h, I"m feeling moderately suicidal. I'm gonna go load up the QMB with a 4 LaGG-3 vs 8 Me-109F-4 mission and get my a$$ shot off...



"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" - LCOL Don Blakeslee, CO, 4th FG, March, 1944

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 04:35 AM
Salute

Aircraft were for sale for a lot less than 10,000 dollars.

Surplus P-47's were for sale at one point for 200 dollars.

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 07:14 AM
My father wanted my Pop to buy a corsair for 5 pounds and nearly convinced him but he had no where to store it so the plane was scrapped :\

I fear that was all to common an event back in the 50's and 60's.
(New Zealand anyway)

<bgColor="green">

<center>http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/images/small/john001.jpg</p>


I complained that my radar hums so the mechanics taught it words.
</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 07:25 AM
Hi!

A very good link to find out where the german airplanes are now is this: http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com

After WWII Norway had the second largest airfleet in Europe, consisting of abandoned german aircraft. The where mainly demolished and buried, as it was impossible to keep them flying due to lack of spareparts and so on..

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 08:34 AM
That's an excellent site! Thanks.

I'd never join a club that would have ME as a member!!.

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 08:36 AM
Be aware...your Coca Cola can could have been a Ju 88 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

++ 88.IAP_Manuc ++

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 01:17 PM
The coolest survivor i ever heard of was the Alutian Islands P40. I researched it when considering doing a skin for it.

The Aircraft was sitting abandoned on a disused airfield and was going to be destroyed in the American Nuclear Weapons testing. All over the World Uproar poured into the American Governmental departments about pollution...enviromental damage etc.

Except one lone letter, that started a single handed Campaign from this one voice asking why in the days of dwindling warbirds was this lone historical P40 going to succume for no reason and he bombarded them with mail.

The subject would have died in that Distant Island long too be forgotten if it was not for the tenacity of the man and the effect his letter writing had on one in the position to do something about it.

The Author of these letters believing that after the Testing had been carried out another worthy Aircraft had gone from this world was suprised to recieve a phone call to tell him that the Aircraft he was so concerned about had been carefully dismantled, packed into a shipping container and sent half way round the world to the one person on the planet who gave a damn about her and where would he like her delivering too.

She flies today /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



Message Edited on 08/08/0312:19PM by Taylortony

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 03:34 PM
Another way in which materials from scrapped aircraft were used was to produce new products. The legendary Vincent (pause for respectful silence) motorcycle used aluminum from scrapped Merlin aero engines for its engine.

America's Lend-Lease "scheme" reportedly left Britain quite crippled economically after hostilities ended. Did other Lend-Lease recipiants fare similarly?

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 04:14 PM
The so-called HE-111 in the Deutsches Museum (secction in Oberschleissheim, north of Munich) one of the Spanish license production. Now it is under a careful restoration, I hope they are converting it back to a true He 111.


BLUTARSKI wrote:
- There are a FEW surviving German a/c remaining in
- Germany. In the Munich (Munchen) area, I have seen a
- 2-seat Me-262 and a Bf-109G (?) series at the
- Deutsches Technisches Museum. And there is an He-111
- which is on exhibit at an airfield museum north of
- the city (name escapes me).
-
-
-

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 05:16 PM
Vicent motorcycles indeed - I genuflect whenever I see a Black Shadow. One ofthe great injustices of history is that the Vincent has disappeared and an anachronism like Harley Davidson has survived.


Blutarski

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 06:47 PM
BLUTARSKI wrote:
- Vicent motorcycles indeed - I genuflect whenever I
- see a Black Shadow. One ofthe great injustices of
- history is that the Vincent has disappeared and an
- anachronism like Harley Davidson has survived.

Amen to that!

I also mourn the loss of Ariel. I saw a beautiful 1950 Square Four last night. Many Triumphs and Nortons as well, but not a Vincent (...) among them. Sigh.

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 07:17 PM
No, no, no!

Haven't you been reading this forum?
All axis warbirds were buried under Berlin (with full fuel tanks and ammo, of course) /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
it's been posted at least 4 times