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XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 11:09 PM
The front wheel is not animated when rudder inputs are used during taxiing.

Is this a bug, or by design?
If it's just cosmetic, no big deal; however, if the modelled taxi performance "isn't modelled" then...?

I'm having a hard time articulating this.

Obviously, the physical appearance of the model has nothing to do with real-world behavior...

I'm asking if the taxi performance is there, and the model animation is missing, or if the taxi performance is NOT there AS WELL AS the animation is missing.

I don't want to come across as being picky.

BTW, thanks for fixing the "lockable tailwheel!" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



Message Edited on 09/08/0303:13PM by tolwyn.com

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 11:09 PM
The front wheel is not animated when rudder inputs are used during taxiing.

Is this a bug, or by design?
If it's just cosmetic, no big deal; however, if the modelled taxi performance "isn't modelled" then...?

I'm having a hard time articulating this.

Obviously, the physical appearance of the model has nothing to do with real-world behavior...

I'm asking if the taxi performance is there, and the model animation is missing, or if the taxi performance is NOT there AS WELL AS the animation is missing.

I don't want to come across as being picky.

BTW, thanks for fixing the "lockable tailwheel!" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



Message Edited on 09/08/0303:13PM by tolwyn.com

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 11:24 PM
i posted a similar thread about this. ppl told me that it the me-262 was never taxied onto the runway but instead towed to the runway. but i have seen pictures of its nose gear, and it apears to be turning. o well i have no problem taxiing if i power up one engine more than the other.

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 12:04 AM
The nose wheel could turn, but it wasn't connected to anything. It just rotated freely wherever the plane was going, and wasn't controlled by the pedals.

Manuevering was done with assymetric thrust, or by towing like you said.

http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb06894.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb57471.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb11726.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb75733.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb80477.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb64472.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb59442.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb80347.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb73057.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb48642.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb24962.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb72600.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb72327.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb10373.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb70750.gif

Message Edited on 09/08/0305:05PM by StG77_Fennec

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 12:27 AM
No problem then.
I can taxi quite well with it, except when switching engines, I forget to spool back down!

I'll consider this by design!
Thanks for the replies.

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 12:49 AM
Just as an aside, it's "tricycle" not "triangle". Just a heads up, not a flame.

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 01:13 AM
I would guess that there is no nosewheel steering. But having a free castering front wheel seems like a rather bizarre option for steering.

Towing probably worked the same as a modern tricycle gear setup - you remove the scissors pin, allowing the nose wheel to freely turn in the strut, and pull the plane around with a tow bar attacked to the wheel assembly. When in position, the tow bar is removed, the pin is replaced, and you have a fixed wheel again.

Barfly
Executive Officer
7. Staffel, JG 77 "Black Eagles"

http://www.7jg77.com

Message Edited on 09/09/0312:18AM by Panelboy

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 01:59 AM
The nose wheel assembly of the 262 was too 'fragile' to be used as the towing point.

Why is a castoring nose wheel bizarre? Are tail wheels on tail draggers steerable by the pilot?


Fennec, using the engines for steering was highly frowned on - rudder and brakes only. Also remember that the rpm was less than 6000rpm, where quick throttle movement was not allowed.


http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/625ed428e022ef/www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2004/Softail/images/DOM/img_Softail_FXST.jpg

http://www.redneckengineering.com/photogallery/photo23581/curves-done-03.jpg


"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 02:48 AM
The 262 was steered by differential braking it didn't have nose wheel steering.

It was towed only when being taken from the parking area to the taxiway as far as I understand.

Glasses-"I may have four eyes but you only have one wing"

"Kurt Tank is your daddy"

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 04:18 AM
Milo,

I've just never heard of a castoring nosewheel! Tailwheel yes, nosewheel no.

http://www.stormbirds.com/project/gallery/gallery_2001_1.htm

check out nosewheel in the third picture of this gallery. There is no trail (castor) built into the wheel! If it doesn't have a steering linkage, I don't see how you could use it for steering at all. But then again, there's no obvious scissor link to keep it straight...

Barfly
Executive Officer
7. Staffel, JG 77 "Black Eagles"

http://www.7jg77.com

Message Edited on 09/09/0303:28AM by Panelboy

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 06:06 AM
After awhile, this gets really tiring.

The 262 was towed by a bar attached to the nose gear and 2 cables to the main gear. The cables took all the strain. The nose wheel was resticted to 50 degrees right and left.

Is the trail obvious on a motorcycle? So how do you know there is none on the 262?

The scissor link had been removed after the nosewheel leg had been modified to accomidate an internal friction damper which had hindered the efficient working of the shimmy/flutter dampers

262 Vol 3

It is not used for steering, a castering wheel just follows.


Panelboy wrote:
- Milo,
-
- I've just never heard of a castoring nosewheel!
- Tailwheel yes, nosewheel no.
-
-
- check out nosewheel in the third picture of this
- gallery. There is no trail (castor) built into the
- wheel! If it doesn't have a steering linkage, I
- don't see how you could use it for steering at all.
- But then again, there's no obvious scissor link to
- keep it straight...
-
-


http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/625ed428e022ef/www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2004/Softail/images/DOM/img_Softail_FXST.jpg

http://www.redneckengineering.com/photogallery/photo23581/curves-done-03.jpg


"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 08:33 AM
-The nose wheel could turn, but it wasn't connected to -anything. It just rotated freely wherever the plane was -going, and wasn't controlled by the pedals. -


That's blsht (oops) I can send you a small movie where U see a 262 taxiing in a short turn with his own means. No Kettenkrad or anything else. And the front wheel just turned.

Wait another few days so that I can finish my werbsite, and I give you the link for download.


http://www.lesskinsajosse.france-simulation.com/vrac/ambiorixwarlordimi.gif


"Laissez les ├╝ber-planes ├ la VVS! La Luftwaffe, elle, ├ les ├╝ber-pilots!"


Message Edited on 09/09/0309:36AM by Warlordimi

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 08:44 AM
Warlordimi wrote:
-
-
- That's blsht (oops) I can send you a small movie
- where U see a 262 taxiing in a short turn with his
- own means. No Kettenkrad or anything else. And the
- front wheel just turned.
-
- Wait another few days so that I can finish my
- werbsite, and I give you the link for download.
-
-

Do you have your retraction prepared?/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Upon landing the 262 usually taxied to its dispersal point but for TO they were usually towed to the TO point. This saved fuel and restricted the possibility of sucking in any FOs.

Who said the front wheel did not turn? It could turn 50degrees to left and right BUT was not directly controlled by the pilot. Steering was by rudder and brakes, as has been said in previous posts.


http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/625ed428e022ef/www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2004/Softail/images/DOM/img_Softail_FXST.jpg

http://www.redneckengineering.com/photogallery/photo23581/curves-done-03.jpg


"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 08:49 AM
"Why is a castoring nose wheel bizarre?"

It's just a rather awkward way to do things. Kind of like taking the handle bars and pedals off a tricycle, and having to push with your feet.

The B-24 Liberator also had a free-castoring nosewheel. I was talking to the crew that flew in the Collings Foundation's B-24, 'The Dragon And His Tail', and they said that you had to steer and taxi with differential thrust.

"Are tail wheels on tail draggers steerable by the pilot?"

The one on the P-51B (and probably the D) was, at least somewhat. The pilot could also disengage it into a free-castoring tailwheel. Great engineering.

Stenciled on the side of my Dora:

"Lasst das H├┬Âllentor ├┬Âffen, es friert hier oben!"
("Leave the gates to Hell open, it's FREEZING up here!")

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 09:19 AM
Ok, sorry, apologies. However, don't you find strange to use the motors to control the plane on the ground when you konw that they won't last more than 20hours?

Simple question, no smart-*** /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


http://www.lesskinsajosse.france-simulation.com/vrac/ambiorixwarlordimi.gif


"Laissez les ├╝ber-planes ├ la VVS! La Luftwaffe, elle, ├ les ├╝ber-pilots!"

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 09:24 AM
Warlordimi wrote:
- Ok, sorry, apologies. However, don't you find
- strange to use the motors to control the plane on
- the ground when you konw that they won't last more
- than 20hours?
-
- Simple question, no smart-***
-

No engines used for steeing on the ground. Only rudder, if enough speed, and brakes.

With the slow throttle movement required below 6000rpm.......



http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/625ed428e022ef/www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2004/Softail/images/DOM/img_Softail_FXST.jpg

http://www.redneckengineering.com/photogallery/photo23581/curves-done-03.jpg


"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"