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XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 03:24 PM
is it just me or are the graphics, sounds, and gameplay better in the first IL2 game? i played FB for the first time last night and was disapointed...

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 03:24 PM
is it just me or are the graphics, sounds, and gameplay better in the first IL2 game? i played FB for the first time last night and was disapointed...

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 03:29 PM
CWOS

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 03:31 PM
can you explain that in noob terms plz http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 03:32 PM
The graphics are better in FB slightly but pretty close... with the exception of water on perfect mode, thats just wonderful but the thing that ruins it for me is the Flight Models, IL-2 was way ahead of its time in this department and Oleg is having trouble recreating this again.

<a>http://www.talonsoft.com/images/hiddenanddangerous/hiddenanddangerous-eyes.jpg</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 03:58 PM
The FM was better in IL2

Just because they added CEM doesn't mean it got better, it got worse. They didn't have to dumb down the flight model to CFS3 levels and make flaps hardly feel like anything.

The sloth moving trim is probably the worst part about FB, turning off many players. If it is still the same in their next sim don't be surprised if sales reach rock bottom.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 04:03 PM
il2 sturmo had the same problems, but people didnt notice them as much since with trim you can do 360s around a quarter with no elevator usage.

Il2s fms seem to change drastically from patch to patch creating more problems then fms slightly solved.

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Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 04:28 PM
Sorry guys, FB has been and still is far better than IL2 in the FM dept.

Harder is not "more real". Don't confuse better E and acceleration modeling with "arcade".

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 04:37 PM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
- Sorry guys, FB has been and still is far better than
- IL2 in the FM dept.
-
- Harder is not "more real". Don't confuse better E
- and acceleration modeling with "arcade".
-
-

100% agreed

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 04:51 PM
In FB the air is not air, it's liquid grease. Has nothing to do with "harder" it has more to do with what air is (a gas, not a liquid)

To say the FM in FB is better is a joke. Ever played CFS3? Thats what FB feels like compared to IL2. I hope you don't think CFS3 has a better flight model than IL2.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 05:41 PM
Saying the FM is better in FB than IL-2 is just something someone with a lazy stick would say. If it's more fun for you to fly around without concern for Energy or making mistakes then yes FB is better. Good for 8 year olds too.

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 06:15 PM
well for anyone in the eastern US who wants to play the original IL2 online, dogfight style on normal settings you can get our server ip here>>>

http://www.mmiclan.com

just scroll down to the bottom of the page

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 06:31 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:

- The sloth moving trim is probably the worst part
- about FB, turning off many players. If it is still
- the same in their next sim don't be surprised if
- sales reach rock bottom.


Saying that is like saying that the only people who have ever bought this game are people who regualrly post on these forums. I'm that simply some sluggish trim won't make "sales reach rock bottom"




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XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 06:46 PM
Todd, RBJ and crew don't know what is realistic or even care about it. They can't see beyond the trim issue. They are still pi$$ed that they can't game the game as easily now and actually have to employ better tactics. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 06:55 PM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:

- Harder is not "more real". Don't confuse better E
- and acceleration modeling with "arcade".

Hehe well i wouldn't say FB has better E and acceleration modeling with the 109's in fact its the complete opposite right now.

Take off in the old IL-2 in the G6/AS, The acceleration is so much better for this plane in the old IL-2 than in FB, oh and it also kept its E better.

<a>http://www.talonsoft.com/images/hiddenanddangerous/hiddenanddangerous-eyes.jpg</a>

Buzz_25th
10-01-2003, 06:58 PM
Which FM is right then? Which patch? Is the 109 more accurate now than in IL2? Or pre FB patch. Or the next patch, or the next, or the next? How can anybody say what is right anymore?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 07:05 PM
More planes, Better graphics, more refined FM (not necessarily easier/harder), CEM, More intricate DM...and so on.

FB is better, hands down.


TB




http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 07:09 PM
EyesBlack wrote:
- BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
-
-- Harder is not "more real". Don't confuse better E
-- and acceleration modeling with "arcade".
-
- Hehe well i wouldn't say FB has better E and
- acceleration modeling with the 109's in fact its the
- complete opposite right now.
-
- Take off in the old IL-2 in the G6/AS, The
- acceleration is so much better for this plane in the
- old IL-2 than in FB, oh and it also kept its E
- better.

I disagree.

In IL2 everything was always on the edge of a stall because it was always too slow. As was pointed out, late war hot rods were fighting at early war speeds. All planes dove at the same rate (this is still a problem, but less so it seems), and zoom climbs were all but impossible.

FB1.0 was the best and most accurate for 109s. The Mk108 was neutered, and there was no drag for rads, and there was the 105% throttle bug, but......the acceleration, and zoom climb, as well as normal climb rates, were finally inline.

They've been toned down in each patch since then. The problem now is too much drag from rads and poor auto system modeling.

The E modeling on the whole doesn't seem to have changed though.

And if you are comparing /AS vs VVS in IL2 vs FB, don't forget how overblown and out of proportion those VVS UFOs are. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

There are still problems of course. But they will hopefully be sorted soon. I'm not holding my breath for the P-47(D-27 all around, and the currently pathetic zoom capabilities in all 3) to be fixed though. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif



Message Edited on 10/01/0306:10PM by BlitzPig_DDT

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 07:40 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- In FB the air is not air, it's liquid grease. Has
- nothing to do with "harder" it has more to do with
- what air is (a gas, not a liquid)
-
- To say the FM in FB is better is a joke. Ever
- played CFS3? Thats what FB feels like compared to
- IL2. I hope you don't think CFS3 has a better
- flight model than IL2.
-
- "The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace
- said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was
- still a newbie.
- news update (http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.p
-)

RBJ_4 wrote:
- Saying the FM is better in FB than IL-2 is just
- something someone with a lazy stick would say. If
- it's more fun for you to fly around without concern
- for Energy or making mistakes then yes FB is better.
- Good for 8 year olds too.

Agreed! Right on the money! RayBanJockey and RBJ_4 rule! FB was turned into an arcade game, not a sim.

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 08:06 PM
Is it just me or is RBJ absolutely obsessed with the trimming affair? Until now, I knew monothematic books, monothematic TV docs, monothematic art exhibitions, even monothematic meals, but I'd never found the genuine monothematic man, until I started reading his posts.

'Monotheman, the talk-on-and-on-and-on bat-turning ace: ne talks about trimming until his enemies say: please, no more'.

It sounds like a kind of boring superhero or so. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

- Dux Corvan -



http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612322300

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XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 08:47 PM
Some of you guys kill me with your "single issue" gripes about FB. Whether it's trim or the 109 or the 190 or the Jug or whatever..... I use trim all the time and it works fine for me as it is. I never used it in IL2 so I dont know what I may or may not be missing but it works fine now so I really dont care. Between the better graphics, the CEM, the Jug, the P-40, the Dora the flyable 111 and the 262 alone FB is better than IL2. Add on the quick track record, pilot skins, better AI, new maps upcoming add ons and you can see why the sim had to be a stand alone. No developer would give as much support as Oleg would have been doing had this been an addon to IL2 considering all the previous add ons to IL2. The man has to eat. IMO the Fms are improved and you have to think more to fly right. I was in IL2 again a few days ago for nostalgia and yes it is STILL a great sim..but FB is a step up. Harder flight models are not more realistic inspite of what some of the "experts" in here may think. In CFS we used to pride ourselves at flying at 100%...but actually 80% was a more realistic flight model in CFS and every time I would tell my squaddies that they would beat their chests and do the "We are men who fly 100% only!!!" thing. I have found in FB that using the plane and really REALLY learning the plane is crucial to relly enjoying the sim and the plane you fly. IL2 was the same way when compared to other sims...(Ray for you to even mention FB in the same sentence on the same side of the argument as CFS3 has substantially reduced whatever credibility you had...at least with me...not that you should or do GAF but.....) You couldnt just jump into IL2 out of the box and get mega kills. You had to throw out most except for the basics of what you learned from other sims and start from the newer, better standard set by IL2. It's the same with FB. This sim is GREAT!!!! Notice I didn't say perfect..... but it is great and there is no better sim out not even IL2 or all you guys would be flying it regularly and there are probably only a few of you if any who still fly IL2 on a regular basis.

RBJ_4 wrote:
Saying the FM is better in FB than IL-2 is just something someone with a lazy stick would say. If it's more fun for you to fly around without concern for Energy or making mistakes then yes FB is better. Good for 8 year olds too.

And saying something like that is just something someone lame enough to idolize RBJ to the point where they would even take his name.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif would say. Unless of course you are the original......./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

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Message Edited on 10/01/0306:11PM by Bearcat99

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 09:48 PM
I agree with Bear Cat to the extent that I do not have IL2 so I will not comment on that sim but based on my sim experience from Dynamix's (remember them?) Aces of the Pacific to IL2 FB (sans IL2) OVERALL FB is a very fine Simulation. I say overall because that is how one should judge a sim. Judge the aggregrate not the individual elements which I believe Bearcat is saying.

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 10:08 PM
I have played FB for about 5 min total (unpatched) and the only thing i have noticed was the sound quality...the dora and the P40 just....dont sound right
S!

JG6 Oddball (Geschwaderkommodoren)
http://jg6.net

Buzz_25th
10-01-2003, 10:15 PM
Bear,

Jumping in one plane, and really getting to know it is my favorite way to fly. The problem is, the FM keeps changing. How do you get used to anything that way?

I say right or wrong. Leave the dam thing alone, and let's fly.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 10:23 PM
It`s interesting when that comparassion (IL2 vs FB) between two is based on what people "felt" while none of them flew real 190`s, 109`s...etc .. and sounds are not what they should be...while no-one heard a REAL sound from REAL WW2 fighters cockpit /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif That includes me too, so i have nothing to say /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 10:25 PM
in FB the 109 in V1.0 was great, yes better than IL-2's 109, but right now ever since 1.1b they have become worse than in IL-2, and right now in 1.11 they are dogs.

<a>http://www.talonsoft.com/images/hiddenanddangerous/hiddenanddangerous-eyes.jpg</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 10:30 PM
EyesBlack wrote:
- in FB the 109 in V1.0 was great, yes better than
- IL-2's 109, but right now ever since 1.1b they have
- become worse than in IL-2, and right now in 1.11
- they are dogs.
-

Wait till 1.2 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif you might change your mind mateee

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 11:11 PM
crazyivan1970 wrote:

"Wait till 1.2"


You know something I don't?





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XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 11:14 PM
Thunderbolt56 wrote:
-
- crazyivan1970 wrote:
-
- "Wait till 1.2"
-
-
-
- You know something I don't?
-
-
-

Yup /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 11:27 PM
Good rgr, at this time FB isn't impressing me, 1.2 I hope will change my mind again.

Time to buy a microsoft stick. (another logitech broken over weekend .... arg)

<a>http://www.talonsoft.com/images/hiddenanddangerous/hiddenanddangerous-eyes.jpg</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 01:36 AM
Keep the faith... it would be different if Oleg and 1C were schleppers...... they have proven themselves in my book so thats why I just dont sweat the small stuff. I know when it is all said and done I will have a quality product on my HD...better than what I have now and I will be satisfied.

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

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<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 01:45 AM
I love hearing from all the aeronautical engineers!

It's a Game! A darn good one at that! And until I can fit a pair of Cray mainframes on my desktop I'll live with the few shortcomings this game has.

Just my .02 worth.

(.005 after taxes)



<center>Beebop-ProudBirds-VFW<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/230903-Beebop%20Sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 02:10 AM
As to FM...I have no idea, never having flown any of the real aircraft modelled in the game. On the basis of the real aircraft experience I do have (Yak52, Luscombe, Cessna 172) The stick forces were better modelled in IL-2 than in FB.

Niggly thing....damage modelling...putting cannon shells/mg rounds into an airframe and often there is no visible sign of damage.

Anyway...it's a small thing compared to the overall stunning brilliance of this piece of work.

"If I had all the money I've spent on drink....I'd spend it on drink!"

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 04:03 AM
Actually, your Pentium IV is probably faster than a pair of eighties-vintage CRAYs. Ain't progress a wonderful thing?