PDA

View Full Version : So now that we agree the 190 is overmodeled.....



XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 06:49 AM
let's clarify what I am saying.

Who here knows what is up with the disparity between online and offline play? In QMB I shoot down the 190 on ace 10 times out of 10 using everything from the Razorback Jug to the Wright Bro's flyer........... I give them smokin motors, rip off their tail and other treatments.

But online it's a different game. Don't give me any smack about better pilots, real humans, blah blah blah. I watch as me and my wingman score hit after hit while this turd FW just wallows and flip flops through the air until we go winchester.

Why don't the AC behave the same online as offline?





"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes."

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 06:49 AM
let's clarify what I am saying.

Who here knows what is up with the disparity between online and offline play? In QMB I shoot down the 190 on ace 10 times out of 10 using everything from the Razorback Jug to the Wright Bro's flyer........... I give them smokin motors, rip off their tail and other treatments.

But online it's a different game. Don't give me any smack about better pilots, real humans, blah blah blah. I watch as me and my wingman score hit after hit while this turd FW just wallows and flip flops through the air until we go winchester.

Why don't the AC behave the same online as offline?





"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes."

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 06:52 AM
GR142_Astro wrote:

We?


TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=forum
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=discussion

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:00 AM
Yes, you're on board....aren't you?



"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes."

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:02 AM
Oh stop whining and learn to fly, will ya?

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 08:14 AM
I'll just copy this in from another thread. This isn't so much directed at you Astro as it is to hopefully cut this off before another thread gets out of hand. And to make a point in general.

*Sigh* More FW whining. I give up. You would think the 190 kills planes just by pointing your nose at them, and is immune to damage by reading the forum lately. Nobody flew it before because it sucked so bad, now it is a Tie-fighter cleansing the skies of the opposition.

So far I have seen that the FW-190 rolls too fast, is too tough, doesn't overheat, turns too well at low and high speed, doesn't bleed energy, climbs too fast, etc. Soon people will be complaining that the visibility is too good. I have flown the 190 for a long time now and it is not THAT much improved. Funny, nobody flew the 190 now everyone is an expert on its FM. Strange. I agree that the roll rate should decrease with speed and that if it is capable of some cheesy maneuver that can be exploited then these things should be fixed. Still the FW whining is getting ridiculous and much of it is BS from people who fly it once or twice. Its amazing how many people here snap to judgement and make claims that later on are totally disproven after some actual time is spent. I just love statements that start with, "I just tried the FW-190 and..."

And the FW overheat is fine. It overheats normally with radiator closed. With Radiator on auto it doesn't really overheat but your radiator will be fully open and you will be going VERY slow.

The FW is the new Yak-3? LOL . I just hope Oleg uses sense and reason when examining the FW and makes whatever changes are appropriate. If he bases his changes on the crap posted in the 30 threads complaining about the 190 then we will likely have the dog that was ignored by most players again and we will be blessed with all 109 servers again. Isn't that great?

And this post isn't directed at those who make informative posts, or that state something as opinion. This post is directed at those who just post to jump on the bandwagon and make claims without even flying a certain plane for an extended period of time. Or to those who just make general statement to attract attention to themselves or to exaggerate things. I'm all for getting things correct, but like I said, I just hope Oleg uses good judgement when making changes. The FW-190 was regarded as one of the best fighters in WWII with exceptional high-speed handling, toughness, and speed. Let's just hope after the changes to the patch are implemented we have something that even remotley resembles that, unlike before.

Sorry to vent, bad day at work and this stuff is getting old. Every week we have a "noob" plane. At one time or another, this is the updated list of uber planes since IL-2 was released:

I-16
I-153
Hurricane
La-5FN
La-7
109E
109G-10
109K-4
P-39N
P-39Q-10
Yak-3
Yak-9T
Yak-9K
Mig-3U
& last but not least the FW-190.

There was even a thread about the P-47 being "uber." I'm sure I am forgetting some but you get the point.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.



Message Edited on 08/19/0307:21AM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 08:20 AM
i think that the FW is finally as fast as it should be
id also like to see it turn a little better

it does seem to be very strong now

its climb is getting there too , the FW-190 had a good climb rate

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 08:51 AM
I agree there are some issues with the 190 that needs to be adressed, such as rollrate and perhaps too effective elevators, but that's pretty much it. The Dora-9 was Uber in RL, so why shouldn't it be Uber in-game aswell?

http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/robban75/Dora-9-3.JPG


'When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!'

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 08:58 AM
What you're describing sounds like lag to me. It sounds as if your computer and the server aren't completely synchronized, so the server might think you've scored less hits than you actually have. I think this would explain why you can score many hits and still not score a kill.

Sheesh guys, give the man a break. I didn't see him complaining about the FM or the FW being uber or somesuch, why bash him so hard?

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 09:15 AM
GR142_Astro wrote:
- let's clarify what I am saying.
-
- Who here knows what is up with the disparity between
- online and offline play? In QMB I shoot down the 190
- on ace 10 times out of 10 using everything from the
- Razorback Jug to the Wright Bro's flyer........... I
- give them smokin motors, rip off their tail and
- other treatments.
-
- But online it's a different game. Don't give me any
- smack about better pilots, real humans, blah blah
- blah.

Some of it _is_ the AI. The AI can't BnZ very well.
The 190 is a BnZ plane.

- I watch as me and my wingman score hit after
- hit while this turd FW just wallows and flip flops
- through the air until we go winchester.

I've seen all manner of planes do that, including
Pe2s, IL2s, etc. It happens especially if they are AI
aircraft, run by the host, and I have significant
lag/packet loss with respect to the host. It seems to
happen more in FB than IL2, but I've seen lag do odd
things since I first played flight sims on line (Air
Warrior, Warbirds, etc).

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 09:26 AM
dont forget according to the British tests the captured war-weary Fw 190A-3 was fully competitive with Spit IX in low/med alts... and yes, BnZ is hard to do for humans, not speaking about AIs



<center>http://www.kurita.sk/PRIVATE/pictures/sig_il2.jpg

Cpt.LoneRanger
08-19-2003, 09:44 AM
AI is rather stupid, sometimes and especially with BnZ-fighters.

But what's really illogic is the fact that you call it uber-modelled, because there are online-pilots flying it better than the AI does. The really much closer conclusion would be the AI is dump. But, well, I guess that insight depends on your ego?

greets
Cpt.LoneRanger


http://www.cptloneranger.privat.t-online.de/CptLoneRanger.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 09:52 AM
GR142_Astro, the newbie, all planes are the same both online & offline, except the pilots are different.

It's very funny that you compare AI with human pilots.

If you find playing online with pilots better than you is some what unfair to you, then you better stay offline.


Continue your so-called slaughter on the stupid AI.~ LOL



Message Edited on 08/19/0308:56AM by matthewlue

LLv34_Jani
08-19-2003, 10:00 AM
Finally FW190 got the status in the game that it had in real life, a feared fighter by any allied pilot.

Good work Oleg,

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:18 AM
If the FW 190 is too tough, explain to me why a Yak 9U recently blew off my right wing with two hits.

I admit that it's possible that the Focke Wulfs are slightly overmodelled when it comes to the elevator, but that's about it.

It was a fearsome fighter in RL and now it is in the game too.

BTW, there's no disparity in FM and DM between SP and MP. That's just the same old bullsh!t that has been disproven a dozen times.



"I find your lack of brains disturbing"
http://ourworld.cs.com/Demolisher%20SWE/signature01.jpg
Former Würgerwhiner extraordinaire

Zayets
08-19-2003, 10:37 AM
I don't see any big changes. For me FW still rolls too fast. And yes , my fav FW is A4.


Zayets out

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:39 AM
Yes FW-190 is overmoddeled in terms of too high roll rate on high speeds (3 seconds should be some 5 secs) and a bit too efficient elevators on highspeeds.. but there are very very slight overmodelling.. Still remember that the FW-190 Gunsight is way undermodelled /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif And FW-190 still looses turning fight to every VVS-plane, like they should .. and they do..It is far from beeing a über-ufo-Hurricane, that we had to fight with FB 1.0.. I think FW-190 is pretty realistic except for these 2 small bugs, which willl be fixxed in Official 1.0, I am sure..

Butcherbird is the king now, when correctly used.. learn to live with it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif or learn how to fight it..

____________________________________



Official Sig:



<center>http://koti.mbnet.fi/vipez/shots/Vipez4.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 11:05 AM
GR142_Astro,
how long do you play online already ?
just a question /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.bayern.de/Layout/wappen.gif

Bavaria is one of the oldest European states.
It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 11:08 AM
I don't see how too high a roll-rate, the only problem with the 190 IMO, and not by too much, can equate to uberness. I've killed them off and online and they go down pretty much like any other plane.

What makes them seem uber IMO is the hordes of 190 fans who have been having to fly a crippled plane up till now finally getting a real performer and capitalizing on it to the max. Kudos to them I say and well done!


<hr width="400">Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and have their
shoes!
http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/sig.jpg (http://www.jagdgeschwader1.com)

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 12:34 PM
- kyrule2 wrote:
-
- I-16

Ahhh... the I 16...

It can be an animal in the horizontial plane /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Flown well, you can almost avoid getting hit by
other aircraft fire. It turns on a dime.
Great low level fighter, just never plan on being
able to run away...................
Oh... no fuel quantity gauge, almost always go
with full fuel load. (I only play offline, sorry)

And you can get it to 10,000m though
a 110 can overpower you.

I see that they have toned the LaGG 3 down...

I agree the 190 is now more to the way it
should be to me, except for the already
mentioned too high roll rate at speed.
And yes, you can get it to overheat also.
A radiator setting of 2 or 4 is sufficient.
I have only flown the A 4 model for a while
so far.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:32 PM
Gezz

Nobody likes to get killed in this game


So What now Whinners?

FW190 becomes a UFO???

Show hard DATA, prove it!


When Fw190-A9 show up in FB this was already a Killing Machine, even with Mk108 Tunned down.

Do like Redwulf Bring data and show to Oleg.

Lot of German Aces leave the 109 and move to 190 cause this planes were better. WURGER means somenthing that u dont know.

If u cant accept that, then try have fly lessons this may help.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:37 PM
agreed? who? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:50 PM
jurinko wrote:
- dont forget according to the British tests the
- captured war-weary Fw 190A-3 was fully competitive
- with Spit IX in low/med alts...


Never did get an answer when I asked this before but why would a FW, with Stab markings, assigned to an officer (Faber) be in such bad shape? What kind of shape would a NCO's a/c be in then?

I would also like to hear why you say the a/c was war-weary.

http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/crandall-stormclouds2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:56 PM
The only real problem I currently see with the FW190 in FB 1.1b is the high-speed roll rate that has already been discussed ad nauseum since the open beta release.

It seems to be stuck at ~120 deg/sec at high speeds, and is more of a distraction than anything else.

Alot of the other things people are talking about are not unique to the Focke-Wulf alone.


<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 03:12 PM
Airbot, I stated that my post wasn't directly aimed towards him. But the title of the thread should have certainly been different and he had to know this would happen.



Jetbuff wrote:

"What makes them seem uber IMO is the hordes
- of 190 fans who have been having to fly a crippled
- plane up till now finally getting a real performer
- and capitalizing on it to the max. Kudos to them I
- say and well done!"

Thanks Jetbuff. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif My long, hard hours have finally paid off. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


It's nice to see some voices of reason here, finally. (Hmmm, can you see a voice?)



<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

Message Edited on 08/19/0302:13PM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 03:18 PM
Please - besides the original post, I agree with a lot said here, but especially with Kyrule.

The 1.1b 190 isn't much improved over the 1.0. It all depends on the pilot; most players (and all AI) aren't patient or disciplied enough to fly the 190 correctly. They are easy pickens.

Most agree that, if flown correctly, the 190 is an extremely difficult target. But you would admit, wouldn't you, that this was the case in real life? During the war, the 190 was seen as a radical design that had numerous advantages over other Allied and LW designs. It had more armor and power than any other LW fighter. Lots of LW pilots who had only a few kills in a Bf109 quickly joined the ranks of Experten after converting to the 190. Year for year, a FB FW should be able to more than hold its own against allied designs. Call it uber, if that makes you happy. But that's what happened in 1942-45, too.

It took me about two months of concentrated effort to get a grip on flying the 190 before the patch. I was pretty damn happy with it then. Even pre-patch, an occasional player would hint that I was cheating because he got on my six and couldn't shoot me down with a La7 or Yak9. (Once you learn how to roll and pull back on the stick while ALWAYS looking backwards, it's not hard to evade attackers.)

After the patch, there were some changes; mostly the 190 is easier to put into a stall and harder to land. It is also slightly more prone to damage. But I fly the 190 much the same way.

So yeah, tell Oleg to change it back. Properly flown, you'll still not be able to bring it down without a bit of luck and a lot of skill.

ZG77_Nagual
08-19-2003, 03:24 PM
Sheesh - I shot down an a9 the other night - online - with one burst at the left wing from a Brewster. I've got a track of me taking on two a9s and a 109 in a q10. Pure 6 is a poor position for shooting at any plane - particularly the 190 (though the brewster kill was from six)


http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 03:58 PM
What a bunch of crybabies,oh they have a hard time shooting down a 190.Well you fragile ego sissies how come in a vvs vs L.W. server the top scorer of 2500+ points was flying a yak?And there were equal numbers of veteran pilots on both sides,and the highest score on the L.W. was 1000 points behind.And half the people who started that game stayed to the finish.

And I've seen similar situations numerous times.
The only thing negative about vvs planes is they carry less ammo than L.W.,but that is the way it really was.
The simple fact of the matter is the vvs has to use tactics that suit their aircraft and be aware that that L.W. plane that is up high and seemingly far away while you are chasing another,will very quickly be on your high6 with enough fire-power to criple if not destroy your plane that sacrificed armour and structural integrity for low and medium speed aerobatic capabilities.

Its easy to avoid the BnZ in those planes,but few hardly ever bother.
And those planes can take down a FW with either a lucky or a skilled 3-4 shot burst of 20mm.Evidently if your emptying your magazines in to a FW with little effect youre shooting at the wrong spot.
As far as wild evasive manuevers,they drain energy,and theres no excuse for the pilot on the 6 to not retain his energy and wait for the FW to become a sitting duck,if that means letting him go because of other hostiles in the area,too bad.That works both ways.

If you want guaranteed 1-shot kills use a big-gun yak.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:09 PM
Look at my sig, Im a 190 fan since I ever starting flight simming many years ago. You call people are so quick to throw around cry baby, whiner etc.

The 190 movement is so wrong it resemblems a cfs1 2 modded plane. The dive and climb speed seems very accurate now but it seems like the control sensativities were giving way to much hootspa. elevator effectiveness and roll rate.

Dull down the controll sensativities so we cant perform these stupid fish flop avoid manuevers no plane in fb can stay on its six.

offline is a totally different story since ai go down from slight hits and bail and dont do the fish flop avoid move just about every online pilot exploits now.

I sent in my bug reports with tracks and charts hopefully it will be fixed so I can fly the 190s without feeling like a noob in an ac then out bnz;s everything and out turn fights just about every plane in the game.




http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

ZG77_Nagual
08-19-2003, 04:12 PM
I've also been in the 190 awhile - since IL2 in fact - so I deserve the current flight model for all my patience and suffering /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Actually I agree the very high speed roll and elevator authority are a bit off - I think the 190 could do the fish flops however - there are stories of pilots using the stall to get out of bad situations - because it was so simple to recover from.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:14 PM
kyrule2, I wasn't actually referring to you in my post, just all these "learn to fly" replies when what he is describing sounds more like a problem with lag than whining.

And I think he was just trying to attract attention with the title of the thread. Seems he succeeded no? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

kyrule2 wrote:
- Airbot, I stated that my post wasn't directly aimed
- towards him. But the title of the thread should have
- certainly been different and he had to know this
- would happen.
-

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:15 PM
What do you mean with "fishflops" ? ... the highspeed stall ?!?

-------------------
http://320015073007-0001.bei.t-online.de/il2-forum/signatur.gif
III/JG51_Atzebrueck

JG51 (http://www.jg51.de)
Virtual Online War (http://www.s-driess.de/vow/index.php?page=homeion=home)
"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:26 PM
About the roll(yes again/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ) When using full rudder the 190 can make a 360 degree roll in about 1 second. I never used the rudder alot in V1.0 cause it didn't do much to aid rolling. But now it wips you around in no time at all. Could this be correct. I can't find this information in any of my books about the 190, although I only have 3 of them. Anyone?

http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/robban75/Dora-9-3.JPG


'When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!'

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:38 PM
heh, anyone ever think that those fishflops are completely unintentional??

the 190 departs VERY easily, flops etc. Luckily the aircraft can recover pretty quickly. Unfortunately that departure often means going from attack to defense as you've lost position and time recovering.

Flying nothing but the 190 for a few days now (with the new patch) those departures are a pain in the butt.

http://www3.telus.net/ice51/taipans/tpn_bard.jpg (http://taipans.dyndns.org)

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 05:04 PM
Hello

I don't think there has been anything wrong with the FW series at any time pre patch or otherwise or even in the earliest version of IL-2. I just re-learned to addapt to each succesive change, all it took was my time.

It's a game where experience counts and you have to learn the strengths and weakneses of your chosen aircraft type over others, no aircraft is the best at everything but some pilots fly them as though it may appear that way.

Flight Models have changed almost with every patch and I am sure it will continue in the future. Over modelling, climb rates and turn rates etc etc are things which the can only try to achieve with some accuracy in a simulation, the reality is whatever they give you .. you have to do the best you can with it.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 05:08 PM
Well the only thing I can think of that fits the description of "fish-flops" is the high-speed stall.And I am not convinced it is completely unrealistic.The roll is the only thing I will grant to be significantly far off.

At lower speeds the FW is a sitting duck,at medium speeds it has decent manueverability that can buy it a little time,and possibly get an overshoot,but thats not the place to be.
I do not want the plane doing things it wasnt capable of in real life.So if evidence has been sent to 1c that shows it manuevering in a physically impossible way,and they deem it credible and reliable and make a change thats good.But I personally havnt seen it so I remain sceptible.
The use of flaps helps at lower speeds,and why shouldn't they?What are they for then?And there is a cost for using them.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 05:18 PM
I have had plenty of opportunities to fly with Astro. He is a good pilot and (usually) knows what he's talking about. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I respect his opinion enough to run some FW 190 DM tests and find out how extreme this really is. Honestly, I haven't flown much single player since the release of FB. (mostly QMB and multiplayer).

S! Astro!



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/_uimages/p47atm.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 05:24 PM
can anyone PROVE BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that the roll rate is too fast on fw? because i find the p39 rolls just as fast. and the dora just about as fast. rumor is the fw was the fastest rolling fighter of the war. and ive Seen prop fighters in airshows roll super fast . 3 seconds no problem.probably faster actually and thats on the deck. i say its all B.S. about the fw rolling too fast.fw spins like a top in every sim ive ever owned.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 05:28 PM
The Fw190 shouldn't be able to roll as fast as an Extra 300. It's not hard to time the roll on the FW and compare.

25th_Buzz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 05:31 PM
No one likes to get shot down. I know it upsets me greatly...self-esteem thing I guess.

I just got my brother started on FB and last night he loaded it up along with the new patch. He called me this am to say "whats wrong with all the German planes"...they fly to slow and won't accelerate. When I pull up to climb they stall.

I have to go over to his place after work and FIX whatever he has wrong with his setup. Just goes to show...I was flying last night in a F4 in one of the excellent single missions available from one of the talented folks online and that thing scoots right along and climbs very well.

I will report back to tell all about what he has hosed on his install.

Just don't shoot me down please! How about invulnerability on servers!



Happy hunting and check six!

Tony Ascaso, RN

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 06:31 PM
Not to mention the improper cockpit view that probably costs me 2-3% in my kill rate and up to 5% in damage rate.Which automatically increases my loss rate.Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:12 PM
Exactly right Jet. 190 pilots have made do with $hitty renditions of their plane for nearly 2 years. Many beating Yaks and Lagg's while flying at a serious disadvantage. Now that they've been given something that approaches reality, they're showing what the Wurger can do and decimating the competition.

There's a reason VVS pilots and others dreaded the 190. It was a killer period.

As for this newbie nonsense, again this is utter BS. The community for IL2/FB is stable. Sure some new people come in every once in awhile but what you see online is the folks who've been here from the beginning. So to suggest hordes of new pilots are entering the sim community and benefitting from an Uber 190 is pure whining BS.

It speaks volumes to the initial poster's lack of class and character. 190 pilots have had to work hard to compete and now they're reaping the benefits of that hard work as they've been given a plane that approaches historical performance.

VVS planes are still faster. Still turn better. Still win lots of head-on's due to higher rate of fire and "generous" damage modelling -- at least for Yaks -- the 190 still has serious visibility issues, yet Astro wants to complain?

This is a purely political post designed to sway Oleg and his team. I hope they see through it and let the data dictate how they model.

I personally would be embarassed to make a post like this.


Jetbuff wrote:
- I don't see how too high a roll-rate, the only
- problem with the 190 IMO, and not by too much, can
- equate to uberness. I've killed them off and online
- and they go down pretty much like any other plane.
-
- What makes them seem uber IMO is the hordes
- of 190 fans who have been having to fly a crippled
- plane up till now finally getting a real performer
- and capitalizing on it to the max. Kudos to them I
- say and well done!
-
-
-
- <hr width="400">Before you criticize someone, you
- should walk a mile in their shoes.
- That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile
- away and have their
- shoes!
- http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/sig.jpg (http://www.jagdgeschwader1.com)

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:20 PM
Guys:

The guy (Astro) was simply asking a question and stating an observation. The question was, "Is there a difference between in the damage model between the 190 in QMB and on-line play?" and the observation was that the 190 seems very hard to bring down even after repeated hits. I was the wingman he was referring to and both he and I hammered the 190 and the thing continued to fly. This wasn't a one-off event as the aircraft seems overmodeled in its ability to withstand damage. That's all that Astro was trying to say. No one is crying/whining about anything nor talking about anything from a use of tactics point of view. Respectfully, some folks here are simply too sprung-loaded and don't bother to read what is being asked. Relax a little.

GR142-Pipper

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:29 PM
GR142-Pipper wrote:
- Guys:
-
- The guy (Astro) was simply asking a question and
- stating an observation. The question was, "Is there
- a difference between in the damage model between the
- 190 in QMB and on-line play?" and the observation
- was that the 190 seems very hard to bring down even
- after repeated hits. I was the wingman he was
- referring to and both he and I hammered the 190 and
- the thing continued to fly. This wasn't a one-off
- event as the aircraft seems overmodeled in its
- ability to withstand damage. That's all that Astro
- was trying to say. No one is crying/whining about
- anything nor talking about anything from a use of
- tactics point of view. Respectfully, some folks here
- are simply too sprung-loaded and don't bother to
- read what is being asked. Relax a little.
-
- GR142-Pipper



Maybe if you would've jumped out of the Yak-3 for once and hopped into something a little more challenging with a little more ammo you could've brought the 190 down.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif

<center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Warning: My intense sense of humor may tug at the stick crammed in your shaded spot.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">If you treasure your lack of humor please refrain from reading my posts as they may cause laughter.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Heaven Forbid.</table style></center>
<table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=1)">
<font size=+2><font color="black">Still loving my P-39</font></font> </table style>
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
<table style="filter:glow[color=green,strength=4)"> www.blitzpigs.com</center> (http://www.blitzpigs.com</center>) </table style>

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:58 PM
Nonsense.

The title of Astro's post is "we agree the 190 is overmodeled." Not, the 190's damage model needs adjusting.

It's intentionally inflammatory, over the top and designed to get Oleg and team to castrate the 190. Pathetic. Even more so because you attempt to qualify what was clearly an unqualified initial statement.

It's very possible you guys were scoring hits but the 190 driver was rolling and jinking, so you weren't able to deliver a fatal blow.

I fly 190's all the time and have flown them since this sim came out. They are as fragile as ever believe me. It's just 190 drivers have learned how to jink and present very elusive targets.

On many occasions, pre-1.1, I had frustrated Yak, Lag, or Hurri pilots complain I was using "gay" or "unfair" tactics because I played to my strengths in rolling then extending unloaded to gain separation until one of three things happened: (1) I finally made it back to base; (2) I got help from my side or; (3) my attacker got frustrated and gave up.

The reality is a 190 should win a scissors provided the 190 driver knows what he's doing and keeps the fight in the vertical (rolling scissors), where roll rate and E management are the deciding factors, as opposed to a flat scissors where turn rate and turn performance are more important.

Conversely, I cannot tell you the number of times I've delievered a point blank burst on a Yak3 with Mk 108s, 20 MM and 13 MM from my 190, only to see it fly away with brown stains on the fuselage. Do you hear me or other 190 flyers b$tching? No we keep flying. BP is right. You guys had to have been in Yaks, Laggs, Hurris.

But don't for a minute think we don't see through your naked attempt to influence Oleg. At least be a man and own up to it. Don't try and change up. Your post was incendiary and those are the sort of responses you will get.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 08:16 PM
Online, flying against the same pilot in a FW, I had this happen:

- short burst from MG + Cannon in a Yak 3: FW losses a wing
- several bursts, FW hit but goes away...

Conclusion: there is a weakness somewhere. It's my job to find it and aim at it next time.
True for all planes.


Pipper, you still have a challenge on your plate.

I suppose bragging online is good enough for you, but standing for your words isn't.....


<Center>



http://www.wingman-fr.net/fzg/forum/images/smiles/sm167.gif

1.5/10 Troll Rating from USAFHelos
(but working on it /i/smilies/16x16_robot-tongue.gif - Woot! 7.25 points awarded make 8.75/10)



Message Edited on 08/19/0304:01PM by NN_Veverka

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 08:45 PM
People that fly Yak's all day long then b$tch about not being able to down a luftwaffe plane are the most irritating thing about this game.

It's never ever ever ever enough for that certain breed of Yak pilot...the ones who only fly the best plane in the game. They get p*ssed if you out dive them, p*ssed if you out climb them p*ssed if they cant have it all stacked for them and only them. Tehy get p*ssed if you fly high and fast, p*ssed that you won't get into a stall fight with them but they never notice how many times the mk 108 bounces off their wooden plane or their canopy for bleepin sake...how many times the FW jock jinks too hard, stalls and hits the ground trying to run from all these yaks that never stall themselves or gets pilot killed from 800 meters by some crap yak machine gun. Funny how they don't see that, but two guys unload all their ammo into a FW and something is wrong with teh game.

total BS BS BS BS BS

you know how these guys are....they tell always that the problem is that you need to learn how to fly right, then criticise you for not flying the way they do. tell you that you make cheap shots when you fly by at 800kph and they can't shoot back, tell you you're a lame shot when you miss because they don't have the cockpit bar in front of them to block the vision like you do.

It's so feaking arrogant its unbelievable. for years the FW pilots have been flying crap planes and somehow they managed to get by and a few even kicked some a$$ in them despite all the problems. now today the fw is modelled correctly, after 2 YEARS of being crappy and what do they have to say???? waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh my two yaks couldn't kill one little fockwulf, this game is ruined

my lord just what are they talking about?
do they feel they have anything legitimate to say?

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 08:51 PM
yakovlev_guy

Funny post from someone with your nick.

25th_Buzz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 08:58 PM
shhhh http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

so what if I like yaks too? I can't shoot well, can't fly well and am too lazy to try something with any skill to it. is that bad?

I just don't want cocky bastages like that ruining the game for me, I need everything I can get. some people are never happy though...go check out servers like that sometime. all yaks and la's spinning around right over the ground. and guys like that they do b$tch when they get BnZd...******ed.


PS Buzz...don't you think you have enough posts? you could retire or something ol man. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PPS send some my way so if you can http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 09:03 PM
Amen brother. Sorry a$$, whining Yak3/La7 whiners should be ashamed. And they've been all over the place of late because finally they're getting a dose of competition and they don't like. Where are all the sanctimonious "learn how to fly...well, your plane was inferior anyway..." lectures now?

What we're seeing is a full on VVS lobby. It's sole aim is to convince Oleg to tone down the 190 so it returns to the human guided target drone it was pre 1.1.

I hope Oleg sees through this sad chorus and lets the FM stand -- the only thing I can see is a slight toning down of the 190's high speed roll rate. Slight.

VVS pilots, newsflash: Yaks should have a tough time against agressively flown 190s that emply proper tactics --ie E fighting primarily in the vertical. End of story.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 09:22 PM
FW190 isn't overmodeled... I flew A4 and a P39N outclimbed me. I could barely turn with any fighter. The only real advantage I had were good guns.. Anyone else think the velocity of those bullets has been increased? :P



Message Edited on 08/19/0311:23PM by Lukki

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 09:24 PM
Funny and so true /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



****************************


People that fly Yak's all day long then b$tch about not being able to down a luftwaffe plane are the most irritating thing about this game.

It's never ever ever ever enough for that certain breed of Yak pilot...the ones who only fly the best plane in the game. They get p*ssed if you out dive them, p*ssed if you out climb them p*ssed if they cant have it all stacked for them and only them. Tehy get p*ssed if you fly high and fast, p*ssed that you won't get into a stall fight with them but they never notice how many times the mk 108 bounces off their wooden plane or their canopy for bleepin sake...how many times the FW jock jinks too hard, stalls and hits the ground trying to run from all these yaks that never stall themselves or gets pilot killed from 800 meters by some crap yak machine gun. Funny how they don't see that, but two guys unload all their ammo into a FW and something is wrong with teh game.

total BS BS BS BS BS

you know how these guys are....they tell always that the problem is that you need to learn how to fly right, then criticise you for not flying the way they do. tell you that you make cheap shots when you fly by at 800kph and they can't shoot back, tell you you're a lame shot when you miss because they don't have the cockpit bar in front of them to block the vision like you do.

It's so feaking arrogant its unbelievable. for years the FW pilots have been flying crap planes and somehow they managed to get by and a few even kicked some a$$ in them despite all the problems. now today the fw is modelled correctly, after 2 YEARS of being crappy and what do they have to say???? waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh my two yaks couldn't kill one little fockwulf, this game is ruined

my lord just what are they talking about?
do they feel they have anything legitimate to say?

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 09:38 PM
Lukki wrote:
- FW190 isn't overmodeled... I flew A4 and a P39N
- outclimbed me. I could barely turn with any fighter.
- The only real advantage I had were good guns..
- Anyone else think the velocity of those bullets has
- been increased? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


Maybe he's better at climbing than you.



<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif

<center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Warning: My intense sense of humor may tug at the stick crammed in your shaded spot.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">If you treasure your lack of humor please refrain from reading my posts as they may cause laughter.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Heaven Forbid.</table style></center>
<table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=1)">
<font size=+2><font color="black">Still loving my P-39</font></font> </table style>
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
<table style="filter:glow[color=green,strength=4)"> www.blitzpigs.com</center> (http://www.blitzpigs.com</center>) </table style>

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 09:41 PM
Excellent post yakovlev_guy! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/robban75/Dora-9-3.JPG


'When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!'

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 09:47 PM
Yakovlev_guy is spot on! Well said.

"I find your lack of brains disturbing"
http://ourworld.cs.com/Demolisher%20SWE/signature01.jpg
Former Würgerwhiner extraordinaire

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 09:54 PM
It´s of no use to compare AI in this game to human controlled aircraft, on one hand the AI can perform maneuvers violating the law of physics while exceeding the performance envelope limits of a given aircraft, on the other hand they are acting incredibly inapropriate the next second by i.e. not deploying proper tactics for a particular AC. It´s my take that AI controlled AC generally use a different (simplified) FM out of system performance considerations.

GR142_Astro wrote:
- let's clarify what I am saying.
-
- Who here knows what is up with the disparity between
- online and offline play? In QMB I shoot down the 190
- on ace 10 times out of 10 using everything from the
- Razorback Jug to the Wright Bro's flyer........... I
- give them smokin motors, rip off their tail and
- other treatments.
-
- But online it's a different game. Don't give me any
- smack about better pilots, real humans, blah blah
- blah. I watch as me and my wingman score hit after
- hit while this turd FW just wallows and flip flops
- through the air until we go winchester.
-
- Why don't the AC behave the same online as offline?
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
- "We will welcome them with bullets and shoes."



============================
When it comes to testing new aircraft or determining maximum performance, pilots like to talk about "pushing the envelope." They're talking about a two dimensional model: the bottom is zero altitude, the ground; the left is zero speed; the top is max altitude; and the right, maximum velocity, of course. So, the pilots are pushing that upper-right-hand corner of the envelope. What everybody tries not to dwell on is that that's where the postage gets canceled, too.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:00 PM
What in the hell is a "fish flop" anyway???


<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:04 PM
FW190fan wrote:
- What in the hell is a "fish flop" anyway???
-

My guess is the kind of movement a fish does when it's on dry land, you know wriggling around and flapping it's tail trying to get away...?

"I find your lack of brains disturbing"
http://ourworld.cs.com/Demolisher%20SWE/signature01.jpg
Former Würgerwhiner extraordinaire

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:08 PM
"Where are all the sanctimonious "learn how to fly...well, your plane was inferior anyway..." lectures now? "


You forgot the "use the right tactics" every 190 pilot, asking some questions, was obliged to read as an automatic answer for more than two years /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:10 PM
All your FW`s belong to us...oh wait...we`r on the same side /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:12 PM
CHDT wrote:
- "Where are all the sanctimonious "learn how to
- fly...well, your plane was inferior anyway..."
- lectures now? "
-
-
- You forgot the "use the right tactics" every 190
- pilot, asking some questions, was obliged to read as
- an automatic answer for more than two years /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- Cheers,
-
-
-
-



funny how when they did use them, people complained they were poor sports and couldn't fight in a man's plane, the Yak 3. shameful.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:18 PM
crazyivan1970 wrote:
- All your FW`s belong to us...oh wait...we`r on the
- same side /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



Dang, for a sec I thought you had come over to the dark side.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif

<center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Warning: My intense sense of humor may tug at the stick crammed in your shaded spot.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">If you treasure your lack of humor please refrain from reading my posts as they may cause laughter.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Heaven Forbid.</table style></center>
<table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=1)">
<font size=+2><font color="black">Still loving my P-39</font></font> </table style>
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
<table style="filter:glow[color=green,strength=4)"> www.blitzpigs.com</center> (http://www.blitzpigs.com</center>) </table style>

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:25 PM
Alright I did see what looked like an unrealistic manuever from an FW today,its a banking back and forth with a frequent complete roll all the while applying negative G's.I could have killed him except I used up 90% of my cannon ammo on other planes.
It diddnt look right though,almost like it was stuttering,but it wasnt.No doubt the roll-rate problem is to blame.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:45 PM
"No doubt the roll-rate problem is to blame"

The roll-rate is more annoying than helpful. Btw, if it is exaggerated, it's only by a little bit, as it's a recognized fact that the 190 had one of the best roll rates of the WWII fighters.

But anyway, the right question is:

Was it possible, before the patch, to really use the 190 according to its historical tactics? NO

Is it possible, after the patch, to really use the 190 according to its historical tactics? YES


I can agree than some minor tweakings could be done, but the second situation have to remain!

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:52 PM
I scored my kills at first with the 109G-10, 14, K, and 262...Got my *** handed to me in Dora initially...Now I have slown down my flying a bit and utilize my elevators more and Dora and a8 perform for me. I am quite satisfied with the improvements save the highspeed roll time which everyone seems to have taken note of...

I also noticed that P39 Q is quite good. I had many troubles in bringing down a certain "Center Cut" Blitzpig this weekend who had a good handle on the Aircobra. Give her a shot bro...Lagg 3 is no slouch either.

"I am a hunter. When I have shot down an Englishman my hunter's passion is satisfied for a quater of an hour."
-Manfred Von Richtoffen


Me to the Smithsonian; "Wanna sell your 190D??"

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:59 PM
VonHeide wrote:
- I scored my kills at first with the 109G-10, 14, K,
- and 262...Got my *** handed to me in Dora
- initially...Now I have slown down my flying a bit
- and utilize my elevators more and Dora and a8
- perform for me. I am quite satisfied with the
- improvements save the highspeed roll time which
- everyone seems to have taken note of...
-
- I also noticed that P39 Q is quite good. I had many
- troubles in bringing down a certain "Center Cut"
- Blitzpig this weekend who had a good handle on the
- Aircobra. Give her a shot bro...Lagg 3 is no slouch
- either.



/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif




<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif

<center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Warning: My intense sense of humor may tug at the stick crammed in your shaded spot.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">If you treasure your lack of humor please refrain from reading my posts as they may cause laughter.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Heaven Forbid.</table style></center>
<table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=1)">
<font size=+2><font color="black">Still loving my P-39</font></font> </table style>
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
<table style="filter:glow[color=green,strength=4)"> www.blitzpigs.com</center> (http://www.blitzpigs.com</center>) </table style>

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 12:25 AM
Well

Anyone who have some coop experience with Fw190 against PE-8 know that get in the six is suicide, cause one shot in the engine and u are finished

Is much more harde shoot down a P47

then some ppl say:

"i cant shoot down the Fw190 its too tough"

Have u tryed the art of aiming????

nOObs nOObs nOObs nOObs nOObs nOObs nOObs nOObs

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:19 AM
Awww look, Astro hasnt responded yet. Maybe you GR142 guys should get out of your Yak3's and try some other planes. The 190 is fine, except for the roll rate at high speeds. I have ALWAYS flow the 190, and i ALWAYS will. I dont care if they strip all the guns off and give me a pistol. I'll still fly it. Your just pis*ed cause the 190's are they easy kill they used to be in your uber planes

http://www.geocities.com/bs87cr/Wurger2.txt

http://www.geocities.com/bs87cr/Wurger2.txt

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 03:03 AM
So now that we agree the 190 is NOT overmodelled.....



BS87, good to see another 190 addict. They could turn the 190 into a recon plane and I would STILL fly it. I would just have to ram the bastard$. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 05:48 AM
i have just recently ben fighting some reasonable piloted P-39s in the FW-190 A9

they kept up with me in differt climbs ( angles i mean ) ....
well they were only loosing me Very slowly

they kept up with me in dives .... well nearly , i was getting away only Very slowly .....

the FW-190 feels faster than it did pre-patch

what i want to see commented on is that was the P-39 was so close to the FW-190s performance IRL ????

because i dont think so .

the P-39 seems excellent now , is a really Nassty LW threat LOL

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 06:18 AM
ok one question. the roll rate is almost correct in the fw now if i hear this right. so if we repatch it to slow down roll by 1 more second is that going to make a difference in the plane? NO. so why bother patching it if it aint gonna make a difference. besides anyone yet have any 100% guaranteed proof that the roll rate is off? if so i want quotes from actual pilots that say this. and documentation also. prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt or stop saying its too fast a roll rate. i havent seen anything conclusive yet and ZERO pilot accounts to that effect.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 06:28 AM
I think its called lag. What you see as hits may not be interpreted by the server as hits. Thus 190 stays alive.

_____________________________________

When does a game end being a game and become a simulator? Interesting questions to ponder while waiting, from Aces-High.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 07:19 AM
Ok, I have just kind of sat back and let you guys run your course for a day or so. Very interesting responses indeed. Thanks to those who tried to offer a bit of their insight, and to those who pulled out their daggers - you know what you can go do.

If the likes of bs87 or walter-mitten would care to read before typing, you guys will notice that I never said a word about AI vs Human pilots. In fact, I went out of my way to differentiate the point.

And the point is, the damage accumulates much more rapidly in QMB than online. I've gotten a hold of a number of noobs flying the bogus-90, fat and slow......and their plane absorbs damage that a B17 couldnt withstand.

I will leave you with this. Isn't it amazing how many of the pro-190 posters here had this basic phrase in their post:

"Ok, I'll agree that the 190's (insert bug here) should be addressed, but.........."



"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes."

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 07:24 AM
I read your entire post and understood it. The 190 has ALWAYS soaked up dmg online, even before the patch. It was always tough. Get used to it like the rest did.Combine the fact that lag sometimes makes you see a mk108 or 37mm land and blow up on the plane, but in reality it whizzes past, and that the 190 soaks up alot of dmg, and yes, it does seem like a very tough bird. Offline in QMB, there really isnt any lag (except maybe video) so the hits you see are actually hitting.

http://www.geocities.com/bs87cr/Wurger2.txt

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 07:50 AM
i can shoot down fw190s no problem. shoot the wings engine or cockpit and it goes down like a lead balloon. if you sit there unloading into the tail and through the main body your going to get most of your ammo soaked up just like in the jug. use skill and blow the wings off or if thats too hard use deflection and hit his engine as he goes by. aim straight and youll be amazed. i am shooting down fws left and right every night . NO PROBLEM.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 08:02 AM
The Fact is that the faster any ac goes the slower the rollRate should be PERIOD

same with altitude thiner air will effect the rollrate PERIOD

But not for the Mighty Rollercoaster FW
its rollrate is almost unchangable Its so overmodled that its anoying

I had to adjust my stick inputs way low to be able to fly her SEMI normaly

I been using Duel 151/20 wing cannons or 103's This seems to Improve the OM Rollrate but screws the Turnrate O well just trying to find a ballance untill the Final patch

ALSO the Instantaniouse turnrate is rather snapy & somehow dosent seem quiet right


I think this is a brutal experiment & we are the Mice

Squuuuuueeeeeellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll lll http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 08:50 AM
actually murdoc the faster the plane goes the faster the roll rate should be. at least thats the way it is with the jug. faster you go faster it rolls. kinda makes sense to me . a slow plane doesnt have much energy to flip it around much. but at high speed youve got tons of built up energy to work with. anyone else with facts to throw in here? i could be wrong with some planes but if it works for jug then it should work for other planes yes?

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:00 PM
You are wrong, about the speed/roll stuff. If you have a look at the chart the jugwhiners were waving around, ALL the planes, including the almighty JUG had their rolrate slowed down at greater speeds. And if you want an example: A6M Rei-sen, the Zero had its elerons freeze at high speeds. and the way I see it, the Thatch Weave benefitted from it(It also benefitted from high cooperation and teamwork, and the structure of the F4F Grumman Wildcat)

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king."

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 03:37 PM
WUAF_Badsight wrote:
-
- i have just recently ben fighting some reasonable
- piloted P-39s in the FW-190 A9
-
-
- they kept up with me in differt climbs ( angles i
- mean ) ....
-
- well they were only loosing me Very slowly
-
- they kept up with me in dives .... well nearly , i
- was getting away only Very slowly .....
-
- the FW-190 feels faster than it did pre-patch
-
- what i want to see commented on is that was the P-39
- was so close to the FW-190s performance IRL ????
-
- because i dont think so .
-
- the P-39 seems excellent now , is a really Nassty LW
- threat LOL



I've said for quite some time now that the P-39 is closer to the original IL-2 P-39. Meaning it very well may be over-modeled still. But IMO, from flying the P-39 exclusively since the first IL-2 that this one is less over-modeled than v1.0 was. Also if you were pulling away in a climb and dive then that seems correct to me. You're not going to pull away like he's standing still unless you have more energy to start with. You pulled away slowly and that's about right in my opinion. I could give you a math equation to further my point if needed.


<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif

<center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Warning: My intense sense of humor may tug at the stick crammed in your shaded spot.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">If you treasure your lack of humor please refrain from reading my posts as they may cause laughter.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Heaven Forbid.</table style></center>
<table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=1)">
<font size=+2><font color="black">Still loving my P-39</font></font> </table style>
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
<table style="filter:glow[color=green,strength=4)"> www.blitzpigs.com</center> (http://www.blitzpigs.com</center>) </table style>

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 05:31 PM
We were told this was a beta and that we were the testers. If you have problems with planes and see issues then follow the procedure to have them addressed. It is in the readme file.

In pipper and astro's defense they know where to shoot I just think they are not use to seeing so many FW around. It takes the same ammount as before in my view and for those who sit and tell them to get out of their yaks while saying all I ever fly is the 190 and have since day 1.....just think about that statement.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 06:36 PM
When i said that, i didnt say the 190 is all that i've ever flown. I said its my main bird, and always will be. I still fly alot of other planes, including the Yak's.

http://www.geocities.com/bs87cr/Wurger2.txt

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 08:03 PM
The 190s DM is about as rediculous as it gets. I could care less about its FM. It takes as much to bring down a 190 (on adverage) as it does to bring down bombers. While the P-47 (the tuffest and most reliable plane of the war) still suffers from single engine hits that destroy the motor, single mg round fuel leaks, single mg round control loss. I know where Oleg says he gets his information from but just once Id like to see it in print, right here in this very forum would be nice.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 11:23 PM
In the 190 i constantly get pegged with 1-3 mg shots and i have no engine, and i can almost always garauntee i'll have a fuel leak. So i dont know what your talking about, i also get the same thing in jugs and the LaGG3

http://www.geocities.com/bs87cr/Wurger2.txt

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 11:57 PM
real pilots real challange simple as that

<center>I know my name is spelled wrong

XyZspineZyX
08-21-2003, 12:16 AM
Some won't be happy till were all stuck flying one plane.

XyZspineZyX
08-21-2003, 01:45 AM
BfHeFwMe wrote:
- Some won't be happy till were all stuck flying one
- plane.
-
-


Personally, i wont be happy until they include the wright flyer into the game. Now that would be an uber plane!

http://www.geocities.com/bs87cr/Wurger2.txt

XyZspineZyX
08-21-2003, 02:01 AM
two words


"pilot kill"

XyZspineZyX
08-21-2003, 04:00 AM
A few hits and the 190's speed becomes crippled severely. I doubt this happens offline with AI as I have seen shot up Yaks and other planes with hardly any wing left flying as if they were never touched. I fly the 190 exclusively, and losing half your speed is not much fun. The wing dips like crazy also, maneuvers become almost impossible. When flown by a human pilot the 190 is very vulnerable, offline it seems very tough. I would like to see the fuesalage made a little less tough and see the engine made a little tougher. The radial of the 190 was supposed to be pretty tough but in FB it is very vulnerable.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

Message Edited on 08/21/0303:03AM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
08-21-2003, 04:58 AM
Again, more civilized discourse (for the most). Great stuff! I am aware that hits to the wings are the way to go, which can become nearly impossible if the 190 dude decides to employ what I call the "pinwheel". Bogus uninterrupted rolling without losing even a smidge of energy. Can anyone say blackout?

As for you "BS" 87, ask anyone I fly with what my rides have been for the past few months. Everything from the F4 to the I-16 to the P39. Since the patch, almost exclusively the Thunderbolt. Yaks are a rarity for me, since I tired of the easy kills.

For the rest of you fine gentlemen, S!


(and no, I don't know why my old call sign came back)

Hawgdog
08-21-2003, 05:22 AM
Oh hell yes, go into any server and its a 190 fest! LOL gott love it. So.....why is it they cursed the hurricane and now praise the 190
raisins I say

<center></script>Bad Dog Brigade
Vulching can be a contact sport
When you get to hell, tell 'em Hawgdog sent you
http://users.adelphia.net/~hawgdog/assets/images/sharkdog.gif