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VFS-22_SPaRX
05-02-2004, 08:05 PM

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-02-2004, 08:05 PM

Eagle_361st
05-02-2004, 08:15 PM
This is a great idea, and I look forward to flying in War Clouds even more now than before. I was never a regular, but your server is one of the few I do go into to fly in in a DF. This will certainly make pilots fly more realistically and smarter as well. I see a bright future in this. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
www.361stvfg.com (http://www.361stvfg.com)
http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1079.jpg

lbhskier37
05-02-2004, 08:18 PM
Definitly a good idea. I usually am all for vulching, but with this, I think vulching might not be the best idea. I think with that you should have multiple bases for each side so there isnt as good a chance of getting vulched 3 consecutive times.

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/pics/Killasig6.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&whereauthorid=lbhkilla&comefrom=display&ts=1049772896)
Official "uber190n00b"
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

BS87
05-02-2004, 08:22 PM
If this goes into effect, i forsee an definite increase in chute shooting.

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-02-2004, 08:24 PM
lbhskier37

Yes i realize that the dyanmics of the missions/maps is going to have to change with this as well. I do not have much time this week to tweak all the current missions, but there are 2/3 that definatly need to be addressed that I intend to fix before wednesday. I do plan on updating the content on the server in the next couple of weeks. I want to add a few variations to the plane sets in here and there. Just to spice it up a bit.

S~

SPaRX

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-02-2004, 08:29 PM
BS87,

Not really. Killing a pilot is already tempting. The mission can be won by killing pilots. So I do not think it will be anymore appealing now then it was before.

Also realize, that by enabling this feature, you are going to see a totally differnt level of players on the servers. They pilot that is out for quick, "quakish" action is not going to stick around very long. If/when he gets kicked the first time, he will not want to sit there for five minutes to wait to get back in. But for the pilots that are playing on the server for its "realistic" aspects, will want to get back on. Like i said, i konw for a fact i am going to spend a fair amount of time in the "sin bin". I havent flown much in the last 1/2 months as you all have seen. But i believe this is a good step to make. It raises the quality of play up just that much higher.

S~

SPaRX

Maj_Death
05-02-2004, 08:33 PM
I have no problem with vulching still being allowed but there will definatly need to be atleast 2 bases on each side on all maps in the rotation. No less than 4 light flaks and 8 heavy flak cannons will be needed at each base as well. Shoot killing should also result in kick if that is possible.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maj_Death here, Stab.I/JG1Death at HL

I build COOPs and DF maps. If you would like some of them you can get them atmy COOP page (http://www14.brinkster.com/triggerhappy770/default.htm)

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Jambock_Dolfo
05-02-2004, 08:38 PM
Now that would be a GREAT thing... really hope this catches on and gets spread over other servers too.

WTG

-dolfo

rcorporon
05-02-2004, 08:42 PM
Well, seeing that I am a "rookie" or "novice pilot" I'll probably be looking for a new server to play on.

Why punish those who get shot down? Seems silly to me.

Ronnie

http://images.snapfish.com/33%3A6436323232%7Ffp46%3Dot%3E232%3C%3D85%3B%3D563 %3DXROQDF%3E2323534%3C378%3A6ot1lsi

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-02-2004, 08:52 PM
rcorporon,


The intention of the server has always been to cater to the High level pilots. This does not mean that intermediate level pilots should be scared to play on the server. Think of it as a way to hone your skills. The competition level in the servers are not the same as your typical open pit/external on server.

Also, i would like ot mention, this is going to be on the HL server only. When the dedicated server package is released, I will be putting a server back in to UBI.com's lobby. These settings will not be present there. That server is more of an intermediate level server.

VFS-22_Swiss
05-02-2004, 08:53 PM
The Warclouds server has been my lifeline to this game, and I gladly support it. What we all have to remember is that this is a wartime sim. Some bases would have heavy flak, some wouldn't, and some would be completely supprised by an attack. One big draw to the game, for me, is the randomness. I believe the pilot kill kick would help to enhance this randomness, and keep attracting the better pilots into the best server for this game.

WUAF_Toad
05-02-2004, 09:05 PM
I think 3 pilot kill kick will just move the fights slightly higher to ensure enough altitude for bail out. Getting kicked if wrecking 3 planes will definately change the way most people fly. I'm not sure if the later option is possible but I really like your idea.

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-02-2004, 09:08 PM
Toad,

Remember, this is a "Pilot" death not a loss of your aircraft. If you bail out successfully, you will not get a pilot kill.

S~

SPaRX

lbhskier37
05-02-2004, 09:41 PM
kinda off the topic, but how about sticking some P39s in your pacific maps if you are tweaking the planesethttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/pics/Killasig6.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&whereauthorid=lbhkilla&comefrom=display&ts=1049772896)
Official "uber190n00b"
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

ColoradoBBQ
05-02-2004, 09:45 PM
Of course, this will bring out pilots who would bail as soon as they get shot at. It wouldn't do any good since the enemy plane would just wait until you jump out as soon as they see your canopy fly off.

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-02-2004, 09:57 PM
ColoradoBBQ,

as i stated before, with this enabled, it is not any more advantagous to shoot someone in a chute then before. And its going to come down to a honor thing anyways. With the server as it is now, it pays to shoot someone in their shoot. The pilot count is always lower then the plane counts. But is it honorable to shoot someone in their chute. I thinnk not. I never shoot at someone i their chute as i think most of the players are the servers do as well. So i really think this is a mute point.

IVJG51_Swine
05-02-2004, 10:21 PM
Great idea...S! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ColoradoBBQ
05-02-2004, 10:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VFS-22_SPaRX:
ColoradoBBQ,

as i stated before, with this enabled, it is not any more advantagous to shoot someone in a chute then before. And its going to come down to a honor thing anyways. With the server as it is now, it pays to shoot someone in their shoot. The pilot count is always lower then the plane counts. But is it honorable to shoot someone in their chute. I thinnk not. I never shoot at someone i their chute as i think most of the players are the servers do as well. So i really think this is a mute point.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I mean pilots who bail out a perfectly good plane as soon as the enemy gets on their six and get shot at. Then they would hit refly in hopes of not getting a pilot death. Since there isn't a general to dress them down, I would consider shooting the pilot as punishment.

LeadSpitter_
05-02-2004, 10:45 PM
Just make sure you add at least 2 or more choices of runway spawns for all mis.

I would like to see how this works out but i know on some of the maps like normandie and others there is only 1 runway to spawn from for germans and other maps have the same deal 1 runway each, a couple times i joined and went german you get vulched 3 times in a row or sometimes more if theres no friendlies in the air. 1 p38 can shutdown a run for a good ammount of time keeping all planes on the ground

I dont mind being vulched at all but the people who continue to vulch the same spot with all of thier ammo rockets and bombs gets annoying, but of course I dont say nothing online just get them back worse then they got me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If you get kicked out after 3 deaths it would be very annoying especially if you can get back into the server. warclouds is the only server i fly since 2.0 becuase of the settings.

The wait is bad to get in there as is especially with all the people joining by ip these days. HLl it will say 18 players and its full because of the ip joiners.

Give it a try it should be an interesting change.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/newsig.jpg

ElfunkoI
05-02-2004, 11:04 PM
Online IL2 play has definately dwindled. Theres tons of arcade servers, but only a hand full of almost real servers. I think this will be very good. After this we need more servers (bring back greater green!), and maybe they could adopt this too. As it stands on a given night the chances of actually getting into a non-arcade server are only about %25, and then you mihgt not end up playing because of **** free for all planesets.

Please, please, update the planesets on all maps. I don't remember if its warclouds that had '42 map with 190A5 and '43 map with 190A4 in sucession. Very stupid thing to do, killed the competition both ways. Don't do this. And maybe check out some theatre planesets, don't just plop everything from '43 into given map for June '43, check out what was available in that area and such. Makes for much more interesting gameplay, having to fly the middle of the road a/c instead of the uber fighters of each period (or flying mid-grade a/c against uber fighters).

"A6?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Will be A6!"

Madoka..
05-02-2004, 11:09 PM
Well, i think it will be a bad idea, and i even think that some of the people who are saying, yes they like it will start to change thier minds once they start getting kicked and banned, rember there are a LOT of way to die in this game, and many of them just happen, nothing you can do about it.

I do hope it works out, but i for one wouldnt even try to reconnect, because if you ban someone you really dont want to have that someone on your server. and thats how a lot of people will view it

Madoka

jenikovtaw
05-02-2004, 11:17 PM
Is it 3 or 5 kills TOTAL, or per some time?

I mean, if I fly for an hour, and get a 3rd kill, does that really constitute a reason to kick someone?

WUAF_Toad
05-02-2004, 11:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VFS-22_SPaRX:
Toad,

Remember, this is a "Pilot" death not a loss of your aircraft. If you bail out successfully, you will not get a pilot kill.

S~

SPaRX<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know...

S77th-Chek6
05-03-2004, 12:10 AM
Sparxx,

As I told you in TS, I am ALL OVER THIS idea.


By the looks of it, you've had OVERWHELMINGLY favorable response.

I can't wait until it's instituted.



You've done GREAT things with your server, and that is reflected in the numbers you have consistently logged in. Very nice indeed.



I just had a wingman turn into teeth, hair and eyeballs...I KNOW there's a sommab*tch around here that I gotta kill

http://members.cox.net/chek6/sigs/F15-Chek6-Sig.gif

JG14_Josf
05-03-2004, 12:11 AM
I would not get banned, my death rate is less than once every other sortie and each sortie lasts at least 30 minutes, therefore the change will not effect my flying.

However the Warclouds environment already includes a multi altitude threat and this change is likely to boost the number of players flying higher.

If players do get banned then other players will have a greater chance to join when the server is full and if they want to hold onto their spot on the server then they will be required to fly smart enough to stay alive.

Sounds great to me.

Mysticpuma2003
05-03-2004, 12:23 AM
I'd like to see a 'credit' system added. So if I get a kill, this wipes out a death against me. This means I am more likely to attack other enemies to gain 'credit', conversley, if I take down a friendly, this should be an instant kick. Just my thoughts.

http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/Mysticpuma.jpg

LuftLuver
05-03-2004, 01:32 AM
To say the least it will be an interesting experiment. Don't panic folks, it's not like settings can never be undone if it doesn't work out. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I wonder if pilots will become so survival-minded that the action will dwindle? At any rate, I really appreciate SparX for hosting and paying out of his pocket for us to play.

C'mon gang, let's log into our PayPal accounts and support Warclouds! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

PS: If UBI was smart, they would even sponsor these better HL servers such as WC and GG. What's a few hundred bucks per month to a gaming giant?

β"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Ά
"All your bases are belong to us."

TheGozr
05-03-2004, 01:42 AM
It is a good training for the competitions server's level.
The 2 or 3 deaths kick make the players watch their actions and very fun. Remember the USA vs France Germany Matchs etc on -PROWAR..
I think it's a Good going.

The none release of the server Patch affect badly all the servers.

-GOZR
http://www.french.themotorhead.com/forgotten-battles/images/IOCompetition.jpg &lt;--Competition Level IL2fb here (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/forgotten-battles/)

Fehler
05-03-2004, 02:38 AM
Sparx, this is a great idea! AFAIK, this will be the first dedicated dogfight server running this concept.

The only comment I would like to add is that any flak at target areas be eliminated for the ground pounders. Thay way only a human or human error would cause them to be kicked-die, if you understand what I mean. I would hate to have a reduction in bombers for fear of kicking. It would eliminate the whole purpose for fighters in the first place; Support of the ground attack, either directly of indirectly. I dont fly bombers regularly, but on the TOH server I did like taking the He-111 "Betty" for torpedo runs on all those cruisers you had set up in the south island bay. Very challenging to get out of there alive with all the boats shooting at you and the fighter cover! But ooo, the points you could rack up in that bay made a completed sortie well worth the risk!

I am sorry you had to drop the TOH server, I really enjoyed it over the 44 server because of the more historical plane sets.

I am assuming that your HL server will be more like the TOH than the 44 when you institute this "Death Kick" feature.

In any event, I am excited about this feature, be sure! Your server(s) just keep getting better and better...

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

Stalker58
05-03-2004, 03:19 AM
Great idea, your server Sparx is very popular and with this setting I's guess will be even more, I only fear that due increased popularity the chance to connect diminished...

Altitude, speed, manoeuvre and.... CRASH!

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-03-2004, 04:33 AM
Fehler,
Interesting point there. I know i am going to have to change the dynamics of the maps now for this new feature, but i did not consider what it would do to bomber pilots. I think you are right in the need to reduce the AAA intensity at target points. I do not want to totally remove it though. Maybe this will force the issues that you will need someone to go in and clear the AAA threats before you make you bombing runs. Maybe i will reduce the AAA intensity to 3/4 units at a target area.

TO answer the question about someone bailing and hitting refly before their plane crashes. The script already takes that into account. If the script sees that you bailed and refly without crashing, it will then credit the other team with a plane lose. So that "way around" the system is already been accounted for.

As Josf said, for most pilots this is going to be a null issues with them. I know many pilots that can fly for hours upon hours and never have a pilot kill. I am not saying they dont get shot down, but the are dedicated in the preservation of their pilots life. They run their sorties with the number one goal of getting home. This is the mindset I want to see on the servers. I know its a game on a computer, so there is no fear of death. But i think by adding this, there is now a reason not to die in game. Infact i dont even like calling it a game though it may be just that to so man. To me it is a simulator, and i am dedicated to making my server simulate what WW2 pilots went thru in every sortie they flew.

Adding this feature is going the change the entire gameplay for sure. Teamwork will be essential. Bombers will need escorts. Bombers will need someoen to go in and clear the AAA threats from a target area. You are going to want to fly with a wingman to help cover your A$$. Four eyes are better then two. Heck, i am thinking i dont want to get in the air now without at least 3 pilots to wing with. It going to be very interesting to say the least. I am glad that most of you support this move. I just hope it does what i intend it to do.

On the question about planesets. I myself prefer the Wester Front. This is why i put up the 44+ server with USA/RAF vs Luft. But i know there are many of you that enjoy other Theaters of operations. So to make both of us happy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, i intend to do the following. Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday i intend to run the 44+ maps. I am going to mix in a few other planesets here and there, but it will primarily remain Wester Front. Then on Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday i will run the TOH maps. This will keep you history buffs happy i hope. I am goign to need a couple of weeks to get all this in place. My current plan is to get the 44+ server running with these new features, then expanding from there. I just need some time to alter all the TOH maps and get them worked into the server.

SO i hope everyone enjoys this. Its something that can really turn into a lot of fun

S~
SPaRX

nixon-fiend.
05-03-2004, 05:12 AM
Sounds like a briliant idea, i'll definitely be on warclouds more often now.

But one thing, I know this is only historical anyhows but this new setting will push everyone into the best plane for each side.

It's kinda nice to chug along your favourite plane, eeking out kills where you can - mostly being shot down! But now i guess there's reason to grab the best of the bunch. Maybe this will reduce variety in the online planesets.. But like I said, this was true in real life.

Anyway, great idea

F16_Abe
05-03-2004, 05:40 AM
Hey what happened to the

1 death
1h ban

alternative?

This is my vote! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

/Abe

Hawgdog
05-03-2004, 05:45 AM
"No less than 4 light flaks and 8 heavy flak cannons will be needed at each base as well. Shoot killing should also result in kick if that is possible"

Wow, so I hope the bases are ten minutes apart otherwise you'll have the base huggers cowering under that withering AAA..wow, 8, 88mm flak towers, four whirblewinds. Theres lag waiting to happen http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"The intention of the server has always been to cater to the High level pilots"

An elitist server? I understand about the wants of more experienced flyers, but watch your PM's. Even the good ones get knocked down, and to think someone with an ego will wait any time to get back to get even cracks me up, you'll get some hate mail! LOL
You dont get that good without driven by personal goals and ego- the best pilots have egos to match the scores! Always.

"you've had OVERWHELMINGLY favorable response"

I'm sure the most responses are always the most powerful emotional responses (I'm just working on post count)

I really dig the idea that someone is spending time and effort into creating a superior experience for the game. I respect your efforts truly, flown on your server as well. Good base crew.

Final word: Remember coops? They are nearly dead online.
Why? You die, you're out till the mission is over, now I used to love coops, I'd look at the clock when I died, it was about 3-5 minutes tops till the next mission (same server) would run. Without externals to watch the action you just sat there. Elitists hate externals, its viewed as some kind of a cheat.
I think you'll get a server full of about a dozen die hards, but no new blood. Without new blood you may as well password the game to your squad only.
I know I play poke the bear pretty often here, but this is a heartfelt reply. Regards-

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v22/HawgDog/sharkdog.gif
When you get to Hell, tell 'em HawgDog sent you!

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v22/HawgDog/says.jpg

609IAP_Recon
05-03-2004, 05:48 AM
I vote for 1 death kick.

I think there should be more flak! (sorry Fehler)

This way, those bombers trying to vulch a base will pay http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But, as far as spawn death - whatever happen to the pilots on the team protecting their base?

If you read Lipfert's book, their bases were under attack alot, and they would try to rid the base of these bandits (funny, in IL2 it's bad to vulch even though it was real).

Personally - if you add enough bases per side, its really unlikely you can get vulched.

again, 1 death = gone. This way, I might actually get to join the server http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

One thing though - all this joining and exiting - I suspose the pauses are going to increase 200% ?

Salute!

IV/JG51_Recon

http://www.forgottenskies.com/jg51sig2.jpg

jensenpark
05-03-2004, 06:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fehler:
Sparx, this is a great idea! AFAIK, this will be the first dedicated dogfight server running this concept.

The only comment I would like to add is that any flak at target areas be eliminated for the ground pounders. Thay way only a human or human error would cause them to be kicked-die, if you understand what I mean. I would hate to have a reduction in bombers for fear of kicking. It would eliminate the whole purpose for fighters in the first place; Support of the ground attack, either directly of indirectly. I dont fly bombers regularly, but on the TOH server I did like taking the He-111 "Betty" for torpedo runs on all those cruisers you had set up in the south island bay. Very challenging to get out of there alive with all the boats shooting at you and the fighter cover! But ooo, the points you could rack up in that bay made a completed sortie well worth the risk!

I am sorry you had to drop the TOH server, I really enjoyed it over the 44 server because of the more historical plane sets.

I am assuming that your HL server will be more like the TOH than the 44 when you institute this "Death Kick" feature.

In any event, I am excited about this feature, be sure! Your server(s) just keep getting better and better...

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly what he said.
Autokick, but tone down the flak...no ones going to want to ground pound with such a high probability of death from flak.

http://www.corsair-web.com/thistler/rtfoxint.jpg
Buzz Beurling flying his last sortie over Malta, Oct.24, 1942

TgD Thunderbolt56
05-03-2004, 06:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG50_Recon:

One thing though - all this joining and exiting - I suspose the pauses are going to increase 200% ?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



This would be my main concern. I flew last night for about 5 hours and only died twice, so the death/kick thing shouldn't be a big deal.

The lag and stutter was (for me) at an all-time high though. It was frequently completely unplayable. I know some of this will dissipate when the dedicated server comes out, but isn't there something that can be done now? I would even opt for fewer pilots and a little less AAA if that would help. I'm quite sure it's NOT my rig. I have a decent gaming rig and maintain it at a fairly high level and I don't get the level of stutter and lag on other servers.

I like the settings on WarClouds and enjoyed TOH over the 44+ server (sorry it had to close shop). I know you haven't solicited suggestions, but I would like to see enemy icons completely turned off...especially, if the death/kick gets implemented. As it currently stands, "running" isn't much of an option. As you simply can't hide or even evade detection.

S!

TB



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

JG50_Sepp
05-03-2004, 06:40 AM
Great idea! good point also Recon, those spawn stutters are a shame and hope it doesnt have too much ill effect on what is a superb idea in a df server. Hope it works out Sparx, I enjoy your server allready but this idea ios right up my alley! S~

http://www.stop45tavern.com/immages/jg51sig1%20copy.gif

tsisqua
05-03-2004, 06:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mysticpuma2003:
I'd like to see a 'credit' system added. So if I get a kill, this wipes out a death against me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Puma!

You know, Walter Nowotny had a pretty high kill count, but the one time that Ernest Fieblekorn killed him ended his carreer forever. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif In Sparx's own words, he is trying to recreate the feeling of actual combat, and though I see your point, I think that this would take away from the server's goal. Just IMO.

Now, Sparx, I think that the "3 kill, 5 min ban" option is a wonderful idea. The most exciting part would be the teamwork required to both, protecting the base, and attacking enemy positions. Someone will have to take a "shift" flying CAP over the base. Someone will have to clear AAA. Someone will have to die http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Love the WC server, Sparx. TY so much.

Tsisqua

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-nedChristie.jpg
Tsalagi Asgaya Galvladi

Diablo310th
05-03-2004, 06:49 AM
Sparx...as a regular in the server I think it's a great idea. Maybe more people will use the TS server and work as teams now. I know I'll spend my fair share of time being kicked but it will be fair and a good thing for the server.

http://img54.photobucket.com/albums/v166/310thDiablo/Diablos20Sig.jpg

VW-IceFire
05-03-2004, 06:56 AM
Great idea just make sure the thresholds for kicks and penalties are sufficient enough so that if something stupid happens it doesn't ruin it for everyone.

Case in point, Slammins at one point was setup for Ghostskies when I was flying there (no external view, most settings enabled, etc.) and they had set (much to their mistake I found) that shooting a pilot was instant kick. Unfortunately I was the unlucky person who opened fire on a Bf 110 with a P-51...not convinced that I had done enough damage I made a second pass firing several bursts into his engine and rear tail area. He then bailed out and his pilot or gunner was hit by my guns...and that was it for the night.

So just becareful with stuff like that. If you are going to say that shooting chutes (which I don't normally do) results in a penalty then please give it a tolerance level so something like what happened to me doesn't happen.

Otherwise, intriguing idea and I look forward to seeing how it works.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

05-03-2004, 07:07 AM
One thing I have noticed about FB these days is the number of servers that allow Icons even limited icons.
Now that = Arcade server.

This Sim has a hard enough time trying to create reality in a 2D world on a screen as it is.
And you allow Icons ?
That is about as far away from reality as you can get.
S!

ElfunkoI
05-03-2004, 07:22 AM
Wow, you are strict. So, all but 1 server (I can think of) are arcade servers? Icons don't both me, its when wonder woman and externals are on. Also, when the red side is flying a german aircraft against the blue side, thats what bothers me.

"A6?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Will be A6!"

Hawgdog
05-03-2004, 08:34 AM
Wait, we're trying for as much realism as possible but you get a permanent boot for shooting a pilot in his chute??!?!
Must have missed reading that one.
Man, just make sure the 109Z is available http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

HayateKid
05-03-2004, 09:47 AM
I have a better idea:

1 death = kick
no time ban.

This forces you to reconnect everytime you die. And resets your score to zero. And allows other people to connect while you are out. And depending how popular the server is at the time, you will have a delay in getting reconnected anyway, so no need for a ban.

Additionaly, when you look at the scores, you know the highest scorer is the best pilot instead of just the pilot who have been playing the longest.



"First learn stand, then learn fly. Nature rule, Daniel San, not mine." - Mr. Miyagi

crazyivan1970
05-03-2004, 10:26 AM
Not a bad idea Hayate... kind a rough...but i like it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

crazyivan1970
05-03-2004, 10:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG77_GK:
One thing I have noticed about FB these days is the number of servers that allow Icons even limited icons.
Now that = Arcade server.

This Sim has a hard enough time trying to create reality in a 2D world on a screen as it is.
And you allow Icons ?
That is about as far away from reality as you can get.
S!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Listen man... keep in mind one thing... there are some people that can`t see too good, or computer does not allow to see what others see, why punish them? How is that their fault?

I don`t mind no icons and i`d do fine without them, but personally know people that can`t see plane from 500m... i can point finger on it, they still can`t see it. Why ruin fun for them? Tsk tsk tsk

You know what far from reality mate... it`s you, sitting with a beer in one hand, joystick in another and talking about realizm http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

ElAurens
05-03-2004, 10:53 AM
This is a great idea. I have come to really like the server and fly it frequently now. this will add to immersion and will (hopefully) spark a higher level of teamwork. As I frequently take the ground attack role, this new emphasis on teamwork is very welcome.

My P38 will be on the hunt for tanks tonight!!!

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

S77th-Chek6
05-03-2004, 11:03 AM
All due respect, Hayate, but I don't agree with the ONE death = kick issue.



Imagine in you had just gotten in and you get an accidental ram on the ground by a teammate...you're kicked. Or even worse, you've been playing like a STUD for hours and you get that same accidental ram...


Now with 3 or 5 deaths it will force peeps to act realistically and not take stupid chances. It will, however, have a little 'cushion' so that ONE accident or even TWO will not be the sole cause for your kick. From my view this builds in for those 'unique circumstances' that were described above.



Just my opinion, of course, but I say 3 deaths = 5 minute ban is good, or even better 5 deaths = 5 minute ban. I feel a 10 minute ban would do you a disservice Sparxx, as peeps might get frustrated and go play elsewhere, thereby negatively affecting your player count.

Also, a 10 minute ban is a fairly significant percentage of one map...about 1/8th if most of your maps are set for 80 minute playtime.


A five minute ban would give the player a chance to get a coke or take a wazz.


...Standing by....



I just had a wingman turn into teeth, hair and eyeballs...I KNOW there's a sommab*tch around here that I gotta kill

http://members.cox.net/chek6/sigs/F15-Chek6-Sig.gif

Metallicaner
05-03-2004, 11:04 AM
While we're at it, why not remove icons over enemy aircrafts then? If this deathkick is going to happen, I would really try to get away from the enemy planes if necessary, without beeing spotted and get shot down, if you know what I mean

Metallicaner
05-03-2004, 11:05 AM
and also a more variety of aircrafts, like the Yaks http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

fullrealfly3r
05-03-2004, 11:07 AM
I don't think its a good idea. Some people are still trying to learn how to fly full real and this could be very discouraging. There are not enough full real servers as it is. Dont make it hard on the noobs.

Flame_Out
05-03-2004, 11:40 AM
I think this is a great idea. I am still new to FB and believe that this deathkick idea will make me a better and more situationaly aware pilot. I bought FB because I enjoy realistic gameplay. I dont believe that noobs will be punished by this setting, it will just seperate the pilots who are dedicated to making the experiance as real as they can from the one's just looking for a quick fix.

BTW, What is the teamspeak channel? I did not see it on the breifing page.

http://img56.photobucket.com/albums/v172/Flame_Out/planes2.jpg

Yum_Yum
05-03-2004, 12:09 PM
Hello http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif,

I agree with the new Settings SP@RX!

I have always used the war-clouds servers since the start, and sometimes the server is full not only for a few hours at a time ... but for days!. I remember a time when I was the only one there http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

War-Clouds are the best large servers because a lot of listening, forethought and planning has been made, and new ideas and information has been readily applied.

They have the correct setup at present, and I think if the new settings are applied it can only further enhance the server for the better of all.

I am not afraid to use any settings http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Thanks http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

WUAF_Boxer
05-03-2004, 12:50 PM
Great idea. This will create a much more realistic flying experience. Just like VEF.

I think it will create some great high alt battles http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. And sure pilots will bail out earlier now that their life is on the line. But do you guys really think that real WW2 pilots waited till they lost of wing or their eng. was on fire before bailling out? Staying alive is the utmost importance and thats how I always play. Also those who constantly bail at the first sign of danger will not get many points and will lose planes for their team. So I think everything should balance itself out nicely.

S! Sparks for trying to bring a little more realism do a DF server http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

WUAF_MS_Boxer

hos8367
05-03-2004, 12:59 PM
I fly regularly on the server and I'm all for the change. And I too agree with Fehler for less flak at ground targets (not bases). You dont see a lot of mudmoving as is, and this will certainly diminish it. right now it seems like only 1 out of 5 missions ends by means of ground targets. Its usually just dogfighting.

I would also like to request no enemy icons. I think it adds a lot to the game.

nickdanger3
05-03-2004, 02:11 PM
Glad to hear that the TOH missions will still be around - I like those better than the 44+ (ok - I just totally suck at the P-51 and 47)

I think the icons are just right for the level of play that you are looking for SPARX. What is the distance that the plane type becomes visible anyway? Just curious.

And the balance has been dead on IMHO - I've played the "Germans bomb the train station" mission a few times and it always goes right to the end - time, planes, pilots, and targets ALL running out at the same time - WELL DONE !

As for the deathkick settings, I'm willing to just see how it works out. Hope this means more people on TS.

609IAP_Recon
05-03-2004, 02:22 PM
Ignore Ivan http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Go full real - hey, not all pilots could see that well in real life.

We have 99% arcade servers now- please leave at least one for the regulars eh?

We switched our war to full real after Il2, and everyone was so concerned. Today they learned how to fly without padlock, etc... and they would go no other way.

It's a learned behavior http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif And it feels quite rewarding when you begin to master it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Salute!

IV/JG51_Recon

http://www.forgottenskies.com/jg51sig2.jpg

SKurj2
05-03-2004, 02:24 PM
Ok, I am pretty new to FB, but I have spent alot of time in the last couple of weeks flying, and over 80% of that time has been spent on a Warclouds server.

Don't have TS, yet as I can't ID the friendlies I really dunno what good it would do me...

Warclouds are the best servers for me, as my ping rarely goes over 90, and there aren't any other servers even close to that with similar settings... errm make that basically nil.

I understand your decision Sparx, it makes sense and hey it may even give me pause to check the time more..


SKurj

BaldieJr
05-03-2004, 02:30 PM
I like the idea of deathkick!!!!

But please listen to ivan. Icons are a hardware equalizer. Its not cool to leave people out because of eyesight or hardware limitations.

I like the current settings a lot. They could pop up a little further out, but its no big deal.

I would love to see only one change: get rid of the snow maps or get rid of the haze. Older monitors don't make enough contrast.. everything gets washed into grey.

SKurj2,

Use Teamspeak anyways. Trust me. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
Specs:
More expensive than the dining set.
Less expensive than the couch.
Smaller than the dishwasher.
Just as noisy as the refridgerator.
Faster than the cars' computer.
Less practical than the car.
Face it, people who put thier computer specs in thier signature are pretty ****ing wierd.

</pre>

crazyivan1970
05-03-2004, 03:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG50_Recon:
Ignore Ivan http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Go full real - hey, not all pilots could see that well in real life.

We have 99% arcade servers now- please leave at least one for the regulars eh?

We switched our war to full real after Il2, and everyone was so concerned. Today they learned how to fly without padlock, etc... and they would go no other way.

It's a learned behavior http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif And it feels quite rewarding when you begin to master it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Salute!

IV/JG51_Recon
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Recon behave http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif I know your PC specs http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

609IAP_Recon
05-03-2004, 03:33 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif

Salute!

IV/JG51_Recon

http://www.forgottenskies.com/jg51sig2.jpg

TooCooL34
05-03-2004, 03:34 PM
How about 30 min ban for 10 deaths?
I could clear my house during that time and my family would want me to play FB more and more. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

---------------------------

=815=TooCooL34, =815=Squadron

http://toocool34.cafe24.com/images/815mark.jpg

-= 8 1 5 =- FB AEP Server
AEP Server Address : 815sqd.com
Teamspeak Server Address : 815sqd.com
(Just enter 815sqd.com. No need for complicated IP numbers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

100Mb IDC line, P4 2.8G server.
Full real but limited icon and minimap path.
(3km type without color, 1.8km id, 0.5km name)

For more info, visit :
http://www.815sqd.com

609IAP_Recon
05-03-2004, 03:37 PM
"All due respect, Hayate, but I don't agree with the ONE death = kick issue.



Imagine in you had just gotten in and you get an accidental ram on the ground by a teammate...you're kicked. Or even worse, you've been playing like a STUD for hours and you get that same accidental ram..."

--

Hey, sit your 5 minutes with St. Peter and be glad to be alive again.

I get the impression in this thread that everyone thinks only intentional actions in real life killed people. Huh?

You don't think flak was a serious deterant? hmm, I do. You think they went in sweaty palms on a artillary gun? I do.

For what price? 5 minutes?

c'mon guys, don't dumb down the game -- keep the stakes high, make it a challenge.

I'm still awaiting the 1 death = kick rule http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As far as icons, learn to see. It's a great part of the game. You lose them - well, such is combat. makes you think twice before tnb'ing knowing he might slip off and reclimb to surprise you...

Salute!

IV/JG51_Recon

http://www.forgottenskies.com/jg51sig2.jpg

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-03-2004, 03:44 PM
WOW! Where do i even start! Guess i will try and keep my post as organized here as i can and address some of the issues that many of you have brought up.

1. Icon System. This is not going to change. I know there are a lot of advocates out there for no enemy icons and such, but I honestly just do not feel a no icon system is fair across the board for everyone. I honestly believe taht the curren icon system i have in place servers its purpose very well. I have spoke to many Real world pilots that have flown private planes as well as some of the war birds in air shows and such, and these icons mimic what they have told me. Both friend and foe icons are identical. At 2km you get a plane type and at 500meters you get a pilot id. When i spoke to these pilots most of them agreed that at 2km they could adequately ID a plane type. At 500 meters they could read the plane/pilots id numbers. So this is the reason behind these icons. As i said, these are not going to change as i really do not believe that it detracts for teh game that much to warrent removal. They have no color at all, therefore losing track of them is just as easy as it is to lose track of the plane itself.

Flak/AAA issues:
I agree that this will need to be changed with this new deathkick in place. My thoughts are that bases should be heavily protected. Yes it very well may cause a FPS hit for some ppl flying thru it, but that is a price you have to be willing to pay if you wish to attack and enemy base. Think of it in this manner. When a pilot decided to attack a field and all the flak started going off, he could very well get quite disoriented. The noise, flashes, turbulance that is created added that much more of a challenge to attack a base. A drop in FPS could be seen as this type of disorientation. I am not saying i am going to load the bases up with so much Flak and AAA that it will drive everyone down to 2 FPS. You'd be suprised how much AAA and FLak is already present at each base. Typically, i place 4-6 20/25mm AAA and 4-6 80/88mm Flak at each base. I think this is probably going to be sufficiant. Will make you think twice if you are willing to risk a direct hit from a AAA/Flak gun for one guy on the ground.

As for AAA/Flak around ground targets. Yes i do think it should be lightened up a bit. But not very much. Bombers are going to need help to get the ground targets now. They may very well need a fighter to go in and clear the target of any AAA/Flak in the area so they can have a clean run at the targets. Its all about team work and team work is something that i am striving for with the server.

Number of deaths before a kick:

I see a lot of you requesting a 1 death = kick. I considered that, but found a few issues that might cause soem problems. Sometimes IL2 does not record landings correctly. It counts is as a pilot death. I have seen it happen a few times. I can think of one time in particular. In this one instance, I did a successful ditch and next time successfully did a dead stick landing after someoen shot out my engine. Then on one of my following sorties my Pilot go killed witha well placed shot through my canopy. I was kicked for reaching 3 deaths. For this reason, I think using a 3 death setting will give a good "cushion" for these issues. It very well may get corrected with the new patch. I have not tested this yet, but i think if after u ditch or dead stick, if you bail out instead of reflying, IL2 will nto count you as a PK.

Increase is Join Lag:

With the server running in a window as it is now, it possible could. I have noticed taht if i reboot the server it tends to cure this. So i may just have to start rebooting the server every couple of days to help combat this. My hands a pretty much tied right now as we dont have the Dedicated server. I am trying my best to work with what i have right now. Everyone just needs to hang in there till we get the new dedicated server, then all should be well.

Now i want to address a few comments by specific ppl.

Hawdog:

I stated that "The intention of the server has always been to cater to the High level pilots" and your reply to that was "
An elitist server? I understand about the wants of more experienced flyers, but watch your PM's." If you view this as an elitist comment, then that is your own view on this and not mine. There are plenty of server to cut your teeth on. When you want some higher calibur action, then this is the place to come. Think of it in the terms of Drag car racing or any racing for that matter. Rookies hone their skills in lower class races. Then as their skill progress, they get a faster car and race in higher class races till they make it to the pro level. This is not about singling out the best, or leaving people behind. Its about raising the level of competion. Creating more of a challenge. If you cannot see it that way, then i am sorry. And i honestly take offense to you callin me an elitist. Sorry to single you out there bud, but that really hit a sore spot with me.

Now for some other comments: ( like this little format of mine http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Hhaha )

TOH vs 44+ server:
In all honesty, i feel taht once Greater Green comes back, they will fall right back into their place of providing Historical based missions with correct planes. They do a wonderful job of this, and i have no intention of competing with that. First off, i do not have 1/10th of the historical knowledge to do it and no time to research it. TOH = Touch of Histroy, i selected taht name for a reason hehe, I just didnt feel taht i was going to be putting up "historically" accurate missions. Now i know alot of you like that format of the TOH server, thats why i intend on rotating the maps thru the week. If everyone keeps playing on teh TOH nights, then see no reason not to keep it going. I wish i could find another server to host both the 44+ on and the TOH, but its not looking too promising.
The 44+ format will probably get a little bit of a face lift. I am thinking i might throw a few Japan Vs USA and VVS vs Luft rounds in the mix. They will still be in the ~44' year format. I personally love the western front. Always have and always will. The planes i loved as a child were represented there and i love flying them in IL2 FB. So this is kind of a personal preference for me. I feel that its only fair that i run a server that i would personally fly on myself. Do you think its fair to me to dedicate all this time and effort to create a server i personally would not enjoy flying on?
So as i stated before, The server rotation is slated to run as follows: 44+ Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat and the TOH server on Tues, Thurs, Sun.

Just a few comments on what i think this is going to do to the gameplay on the servers:

Teamwork is going to be essential. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. If you leave your base alone, you are opening yourself up to beign shot down in a hurry. Teams are going to have to work together providing CAP for bases, clearing AAA at target areas for bombers, and aer going to have to fly in flights of 2-4 to help cover each others butts. Is this not how the real deals did it? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
How you fly is going to change drastically. If you fly solo into a furball that has you you numbered, you are going to get shot down and risk the kick. You are now going to have to think about every situation before you enter it. What are your odds of survival? Do i have an advantage? All these question should start popping up in yoru head before you enter an engagement. Again, did not the real deals do this as well? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Voice comms is going to be essential as well. As I provide a free publicly avaible TS server for all to use, i dont see this as an issue. Mic are cheap. Setting up Teamspeak is not that hard. Quick communitcations are going to make or break how a mission will go for a team.
To, IL2 is all bout simulation. We have obvious limitations as we are playing on PCs in nice comfy chairs and our blood does not get spread all over the Russian terrain. Honestly, we all know these things and bringing them up time and time again is pointless. But we do have the means to control other aspects of IL2 to give it more of a simulation feel. These are the things we need to focus on. Hopefully these new ideas and mission will do just that.

Time frame to get this up and running:

I know i stated taht i would like to have this in place by Wed. Well its not looking too good right now. Wife just hit me with the, " I have to work till close tonight and Wed and Thur". So i will be on baby sitting detail most of the week. ANd if any of you have a 6 month old or have children, you konw what i am talking about http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. My time is her time. Not complainign because i love my daughter dearly. So i am hoping that i can have some form of this up and running sometime this weekend. I ask that all you bare with me till i get this complete. I think i am looking at bout 1.5-2 weeks till i can have everything tweeked out and running smooth again. And any comments on how its progressing over this period will be greatly appreciated and very helpful.

OK.. Baby's crying, my fingers hurt, and i feel like i just wrote my disertation for my degree.

S~ and happy flying

SPaRX

antelus
05-03-2004, 04:35 PM
I am not a good pilot (maybe even not "intermediate"), but I have a great time when I play in your server. I think challenge is good for learning, and the idea of being kicked after three PKs (something that will happen frequently) seems good. My main concern (already commented in the thread) is ground attack. Survival is easier for a fighter, and I am afraid that we will see much less bombers and fighter-bombers in the battle. Maybe this will force a change in the missions.
Anyway, thank you for giving us the opportunity of having a good time.

Antelus

fullrealfly3r
05-03-2004, 04:51 PM
with all due respect, the bases are too far apart and the maps are poorly designed. The design encourages "base hugging", a tactic where one team does not leave their base and waits for people from the other team to get bored enough to roam within a km of the base where they are quickly dispatched by 5 or 6 planes competing for a kill. This often results in killstealing.

With the "death penalty" (with all respect a horrible idea) people will just be more encouraged to base hug and not risk dogfighting. No one will go after the objectives, they will "play it safe" and stay near their base.

A proposed solution to the already existing problem of base hugging, is to make the maps smaller or just make bases closer, do not implement a death penalty, and make the ground targets near the CENTER of the map INBETWEEN the two bases.

I hope this contructive bit of criticism helps. I enjoy the warclouds server but it has some issues that need to be resolved.

Aviar
05-03-2004, 05:22 PM
After reading all the posts on this thread, I am seriously thinking about trying this deathkick on my server. After all, we'll never know how it will play out until someone tries it.....right?

Since switching over to an FBD server a few weeks ago, I was put off by the lack of teamwork and the fact that most players seemed to ignore the goals of the map. Maybe the deathkick feature will add a little more drama to the room.

I do have a question about one aspect, since I have never tried this feature.

Question: Do your deaths reset to '0' (zero) when a new map loads?

Aviar

--------------------------
AMD XP 2600+
EPoX EP-8K9AI Mobo
1536Mb DDR PC 2100 RAM
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro
SoundBlaster Audigy 2
Klipsch 5.1 THX Certified Speakers
CH FighterStick USB
CH Pro Throttle USB
CH Pro Pedals USB
Thrustmaster Tacticalboard
--------------------------

nickdanger3
05-03-2004, 05:41 PM
SPaRX - Excellent post - thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Get on those voice comms people ! It really helps. I'm a convert - sorry to all the people who had to listen to me tweak my settings in the first few sorites http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And glad to hear you have your priorities in order - diapers THEN flying - I know how that is !

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-03-2004, 06:08 PM
fullrealfly3r,

Nice of you to create a new username today, esp so you can remain anon. Your comments about the server are certainly your own. I have gotten nothing but good comments about the server, maps, and settings. You are most definatly in a minority in your obersvations and opinions. Sorry you don't care for the server, but there are enough that enjoy it.

Your so called "base hugging tatic" (nice name by the way, thought of a care bear when i read that) is something i have never seen on the server.

S~

SPaRX

609IAP_Recon
05-03-2004, 06:40 PM
Thanks SPaRX,

Excellent reply - I am looking forward to flying on your server!

Salute!

IV/JG51_Recon

http://www.forgottenskies.com/jg51sig2.jpg

fullrealfly3r
05-03-2004, 06:56 PM
I am a relatively new poster as you have pointed out. I believe I speak for many people that were playing on your server today, it is doubtful that all of them post here so I thought I would say something on their behalf. If you choose to ignore my input and constructive feedback, that is entirely up to you. Now the server is your own, but I felt obligated to inform you of the shortcomings so that there is at least a chance, however small, that you may consider a change. How did you get the impression that i didn't like the server? I even wrote in my last post "i enjoy the warclouds server."

JG14_Josf
05-03-2004, 07:43 PM
On the topic of tactics:

Earlier today I went for three hops in Warclouds.

On the first sortie the blue team outnumbered the red so I chose to fly a 190F-8 loaded with a big bomb.

The mission brief targeted a train up north.

I had a few options;

I could launch from 3 bases.

I chose the one farthest to the west.

There were no other Blue players from that base.

I chose to fly north first to gain altitude. My thinking was to stay out of the high traffic areas.

Being alone it was important for me to weave and keep an eye out for threats. Once at 3,000 meters I turned east toward the target and trimmed for a higher climb speed.

Over the target at 4,000 meters there were no visible threats and an obvious target below. It looked like a train parked at a depot on the west end of town.

My drop went wide but my technique was lacking precision.

Up and west after the drop with 2,000 meters to spare I noticed one plane below. It did not excite the ack. One burst of the big AAA guns hit my plane and causes a fuel leak.

I went home.

On the way I saw a target way out ahead climbing. It turned out to be a P-51.
The target detected my approach and went over the top to reverse; giving me a shot.

I missed and continued home.

The P-51 followed.

Nose low, wep, radiator closed, Manual pitch at 100 percent I ran to the closest Blue base; the one in the middle.

The P-51 continued to follow, low level, into his enemies territory. Perhaps he thought his speed would keep him alive.

I don't know.

I went past the middle base, checked my fuel, and went into some clouds faking a left turn.

In the clouds I went right and headed for the West blue base.

The P-51 was no where in sight.

I landed.

After landing I checked the side balance and noticed that red was now ahead, but instead of going back to fighters (my preference) the challenge of getting a bomb on target inspired me to try again.

The map ended. Blue won the mission having destroyed the required ground targets.

The next hop had Blue and Red about even with a few more Red players than Blue. I went back to the 109K4 to do what I could to suppress the top cover and keep Red pinned down.

My wife informed me that we were going to dinner early. I asked how much time. She said 5 minutes. I saw that she was on the phone and calculated the wife extimate factor to be 15 minutes; times 3.

At 4,000 meters and a turn into the high traffic area a dot appeared passing north to south indicating enemy.

It turned east in front of me.

On wep, radiator closed, full throttle, the dot became a visible P-47.

It turned left, then hard left.

I went up and checked 6.

We went around like this for some time.

The P-47 getting lost in the ground clutter.

Me checking 6 and grabbing.

The P-47 returned, he was interested in testing me out I think.

We did a few climbing, stalling hammerhead type bouts, the last one allowing me to get a low percentage passing shot at his upper planform.

I hit.

He smoked and went low.

Almost 10 minutes had expired.

I returned to base.

On the way home I met a pair of 109s in echelon formation. They really ought to go with the line abreast.

My thinking during the flight was how the new rules may effect side balancing. My only concern is that some players get upset when things get unbalanced and this can lead to a whole lot of hand-wringing and the inevitable cries to fix what in my view is not ever a problem. The fixes tend to be worse than the ailment.

My thinking continued during my landing approach; this death boot is going to be worth the price of addmission, which is...?

WUAF_Boxer
05-03-2004, 07:46 PM
Sparx, I also think that you should reduce the number of ground targets to destroy on many maps. Some maps like the one where Allies attack bunkers on the beaches are already almost impossible to win. I for one have never seen that map won by ground targets. Since it will now be much more risky to ground pound, I think that this will be neccessary to balance things out. Targets that require heavy bombs to destroy like ships and tanks should be reduced because it takes a lot of time and many sorties to destroy them all. Maybe an average of a 20-25% reduction of them on the difficult maps.

WUAF_MS_Boxer

T_O_A_D
05-03-2004, 08:03 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Have you checked your Private Topics recently? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=ugtpc&s=400102)
131st_Toad's Squad link (http://www.geocities.com/vfw_131st/)
My TrackIR fix, Read the whole thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=15310285&p=1)
2.11 drivers (http://home.mchsi.com/~131st-vfw/NaturalPoint_trackIR_2_11.exe)
http://home.mchsi.com/~131st_vfw/T_O_A_D.jpg

Mattiflaps
05-03-2004, 08:10 PM
Hi Sparx, I think the death kick feature is a good one - anything that raises the bar a bit is a good thing. Just some thoughts on AAA-

I agree with yourself and others that base AAA should be increased. Personally I really dislike vulching, but I put up with it because I enjoy most other aspects of your server. 'But this is a war simulator and vulching happened in the real war!' I hear you all say. Very true, but also remember in the real war, bases were usually much further apart than they are in DF maps. Also remember real pilots didn't instantaneously 'spawn' right in front of a strafing P38 or Bf110!
I also agree that AAA should be decreased at the target zones. For example your Bastogne map - I often fly Bf110's on that map, and I accept that my first 2 or 3 sorties will end in my pilot being dead, but it's worth it to get rid of the AAA early in the mission. Fighters taking out AAA ahead of bombers? It'll never happen! lol
I like the idea of small calibur AAA defending targets - it usually won't kill a pilot, but it does draw the attention of nearby defending fighters.

And on a different note - any chance of dropping the Fw190D9late45 into the odd planeset - I miss it! lol

Thanks Sparx, your time and effort in running your servers is greatly appreciated http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Cheers
Mattiflaps (aka DEY_Scull)

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-03-2004, 08:22 PM
S~ all.

I just have to say. The reponses that are coming from this are simply amazing. I have been debating this feature for quite some time. I knew it was there, but honestly thought that the general community would reject it. But you all have showed me different. Nice to see that everyone is open to this new type of dogfight server. FBD in my opinion has brought to alot of COOP options to a dogfight server. Assigning targets and rewarding a team for completing tasks with a mission complete. Simply amazing. Sammie, Bernie, and Lunix have done something wonderful here.

I notice a lot of you are posting concerns bout the missions that are on the server right now. Yes i do realize there are some gameplay issues with them and i am trying to get these worked out. I ask that everyone just hang in there with me. I am working on it, and your comments are not going on blind eyes.

I have reworked the missions tonight to get them ready for this change. They are ready for the trial run now. So pay attention to your teams brief page. You will see a description of the Deathkick settings. If you see this, it is enable and running. So let the fun begin.

Again all, please bare with me as i try and work some time in to get the missions squared away.

S~ and happy flying

SPaRX

Fehler
05-03-2004, 09:28 PM
Sparx,

I just want to say, thanks again. You provide a very nice atmosphere to fly in, I have really wnjoyed your servers.

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

hos8367
05-04-2004, 01:02 AM
Sparx,

I am highly anticipating the change, and its great to hear that this will be up and running soon. I played for a while tonight, and there were all sorts of people asking when it would be started (obviously anxious to try it). http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fullrealflyer,

How can you even call yourself a full real flyer? Every change you are asking for describes a quake server. There are plenty of quake servers out there, maybe you should try one as you may enjoy it more. And if you speak for anyone who plays on WC, you must only speak for a very small minority.

I too would like to see # of ground targets reduced along with less AA @ the target area. Most times maps end by one side running out of planes, very rarely are # of ground targets reached. I think tweaking it for the way it is now is in order. Furthermore, the death kick will adversely affect bombers more then fighters for a couple reasons. The bombers have to fly through AA, no way around it. Potential mudmovers will think twice about bombing with the deathkick. Fighters will also not want to fly though the AA, and it is likely there will be even less fighters willing to cover bombers, making it even harder for the bombers. I am all for encouraging teamwork, but if its too hard everyone will go the easy route and just dogfight.

S!

[This message was edited by hos8367 on Tue May 04 2004 at 12:34 AM.]

JG14_Josf
05-04-2004, 02:34 AM
If currently (pre death boot) a ground attack mission is more likely to result in death than a fighter mission then all the more reason to inspire the ground attack players, or virtual pilots if you prefer, to adjust their tactics toward a more survivable routine.

If the players are more concerned with knocking out ground targets then they will act in a manner that knocks out ground targets.

If the players are more concerned with gaining points then they will act in a manner that gains points.

If the players are more concerned with getting kills then they will act in a mannner that gets kills.

If the players are more concerned with survival then...

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-04-2004, 04:22 AM
You all are makign some valid points. We are just going to have to give it a go and start tweaking from there. This is a first for all of us. First time you have played on a server with it enabled, and first time for me designing missions for it. So I ask two things. Keep the input coming. The more info i get from everyone, the better i can make adjustments. And finally, just bare with me as we get this fine tuned. I should have it enabled something this late after noon. Probably 4-5pm EST. I adjusted some all of the missions AAA lastnight. Removed some that were too rough on pilots and added some to bases. Also made sure that each map had a min of two bases per team. I also adjusted the plane/pilot counts as i think ppl will be flying smarter. So please all, just bare with me in this. If it doesnt work out, we can always go right back to the way it was. But i honestly think this is going to work out well.

S~

SPaRX

Fehler
05-04-2004, 04:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG14_Josf:
On the topic of tactics:

...Earlier today I went for three hops in Warclouds....

...My wife informed me that we were going to dinner early. I asked how much time. She said 5 minutes. I saw that she was on the phone and calculated the wife extimate factor to be 15 minutes; times 3....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahh, your wife must be Caucasion. You see, I know this because my wife is Asian, and the official "Asian wife - get ready extrapolation" (AWE) is a factor of 5, not 3 as in the case of "Caucasion wife - get ready extrapolation" (CWE). Thus, had I been in your situation, I would have had this function:

5 minutes x AWE = 25 minutes

But then I could also add the extra bonuses such as: Phone call = 30 minutes and Makeup bonus = 20 minutes.

However I would have to penalize myself for the "Wife sets all the clocks in the bedroom back 10 minutes" function.

The final equasion looks something like this.

(AWE = 25 minutes) + (Phone Bonus) + (Makeup Bonus Bonus) - (Clock penalty) = x

X would then = 65 minutes

I could have played an extra hour and a five minutes if I were already to go, -OR- an extra fifty-five minutes if I had to get ready.

Of course all of this would be accompanied by the "Yeah-Yeah's."

Wife: "We are leaving in 5 minutes!"
Husband: "Yeah-yeah..."

Wife: "Get off the computer, we are leaving in a few minutes!"
Husband: "Yeah-yeah."

Wife: "I'm almost dressed! Are you ready?"
Husband: "Yeah-yeah..."

Wife: "You are still on that stupid computer?!? All I have to do is put on my make-up!"
Husband: (Snickers) "Yeah-yeah."

Wife: "Im getting my shoes, you better be ready!"
Husband: (In "Yes dear" voice while starting shower) "Yeah-yeah."

Wife: "OK, lets go! We are late!"
Husband: (Looking at watch - 55 minutes from start - straightening out tie) "Yeah, yeah!"

Wife: "I always have to wait for you!"
Husband: (Satisfied with his last 3 sorties) "Yeah, yeah." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

ElAurens
05-04-2004, 05:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG14_Josf:
If the players are more concerned with survival then...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...no missions that have a basic requirement for completion of destroying ground targets will be won by the attackers. Well, at least the anti tank mission on the Normandy map will never result in victory for the Allies. Whilst the fighter jocks are off seeking glory in furballs, the ground pounders, who can win the mission quickly if supported, are left to the wolves. The problem is: How do you get enought fighter pilots to support the attack force? Tere are always one or two "little friends" who are willing, but it will take all availabel fighters to win most of the maps.

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

Diablo310th
05-04-2004, 06:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JG14_Josf:
If the players are more concerned with survival then...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...no missions that have a basic requirement for completion of destroying ground targets will be won by the attackers. Well, at least the anti tank mission on the Normandy map will never result in victory for the Allies. Whilst the fighter jocks are off seeking glory in furballs, the ground pounders, who can win the mission quickly if supported, are left to the wolves. The problem is: How do you get enought fighter pilots to support the attack force? Tere are always one or two "little friends" who are willing, but it will take all availabel fighters to win most of the maps.

_____________________________

ElAurens I agree. Granted I fly the Jug in DF mode but it's going to take a change in attitude for us fighter jocks to realize the importance of acheiving the mission. If the pilot deaths start over at 0 when the map changes ie. mission accomplished then it would benefite fighters to help the ground pounders out. In the 310th we are used to supporting the Heavies and ground pounders so it's no big deal. In actuallity i enjoy the escort missions. Sparx......is there a way exteral views could be set up to allow for heavy bombers such as the B-17 to be used untill we get the B-25?? External views also make it alot easier on some maps to see teh runway.

http://img54.photobucket.com/albums/v166/310thDiablo/Diablos20Sig.jpg

JG14_Josf
05-04-2004, 09:38 AM
Guys,

Maybe, and I say maybe because I don't know, a large percentage of the guys flying currently on ground attack missions are flying with more concern about knocking out ground targets and less concern about surviving. This type of mind set may drive tactics towards something less than what history has recorded like for example perhaps flying around the target area until all ammunition is used up, turning low and slow in enemy territory where enemy fighters are known to prowl.

Perhaps the rule change won't change anything, but my observation based upon experience suggests that it will at least inspire some players to sit out a few minutes of game play once they have used up a few virtual lives.

What happens after that remains to be seen.


If the guys who die a lot end up in the back of the line pressing enter at the 'Server is full' window and pressing the mouse button on the 'Join' button, then the possiblity exists that either the players who do not die a lot will populate the server or the players who die a lot will learn how better to survive.

If anyone is interested in reading 'how it was' from one German ground pounders perspective on the Eastern front then please read:
Stormbird by Hermann Buchner (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1902109007/qid=1083683076/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_6/104-0990924-8297569?v=glance&s=books)

That person lived through the war.

My opinion is that if the number of ground targets are too great for players to reasonably achieve the mission goals then that number will be adjusted to a more reasonable number, however doing so based upon assumption is leaving out the possibility that the assumption is in error.

What just may be possible is that the new rule will drive the fighter planes higher and leave the lower altitudes relatively free from danger.

What occurs often in these situations are people claiming to represent everyone where few actually fall into that particular group.

For example: Often it is reported that Dog Fight servers are all low level non-historical free for all quake type games.
These reports may come from players that find themselves at low level flying in a non-historical free for all quake type way whenever they join a dog fight server.
Since this is what they see it is a natural assumption that this is all there is to see.

My last flight, last night, on the WarClouds server was another historical example of WWII Aircombat and a tactical success.

I went high in a fighter plane to supress the enemy fighters, to knock them down, to secure the high ground for the Blue team. Again my squad mates were not available so I flew a lone mission. I consider this to be along the lines of a Recon/Air superioriity mission.

The Recon part is where I get a look at the latest enemy tactics so that my 'intelligence' can be applied to tactics once the Squad is available.

The Air Superiority part is when I manage to down more planes then lost.

On this occasion I found one player at medium altitude and no sooner than the fight started the enemy numbered 3 closing on my tail shooting holes in my plane.

Diving at high speed into the clouds enabled me to escape.

Why do I consider this to be a tactical success?

I met enemy planes at medium altitude and their advantage in altitude was less when I left.

Chances are that another blue player did the same type of tactical maneuver clearing the upper altitudes before me. Had the Red team gained Air Superiority in altitude I may not have survived and escaped that mission.

Often a player on my 6 will follow me down low over his enemies territory and I wonder why?

Often that player will be shot down by friendlies, sometimes even AAA will get him.

The trick to survival is knowing when the battle is lost before the battle is lost and getting out.

This tactical ability, once learned, can be employed very well in teamwork. It is called dragging.

Dragging is recorded as a historical tactic.

Last week on the Discovery Wings channel was a Battle of Britain documentary describing in part how Adolf Galland instructed his pilots the art of shooting down Spitfires by setting his students up over france while he went to England to drag targets for them to shoot down.

Please give the new settings a chance to effect a change that is observable. Changing too many variables all at once will obscure the effects of one variable.

P.S. CWE is correct. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[This message was edited by JG14_Josf on Tue May 04 2004 at 10:48 AM.]

Diablo310th
05-04-2004, 10:11 AM
Josf....good point. I was on WarClouds last night too and 4 of us were flying high cover. 2 would go down and recon and bring the enemy up after making a slashing attack. 2 P-51's and 2 P-47's. After the first group of 51's attacked us 2 47's took our turn. It was great team tactics with all 4 of us RTB while claiming 2 kills if i remembver right.

http://img54.photobucket.com/albums/v166/310thDiablo/Diablos20Sig.jpg

BaldieJr
05-04-2004, 10:23 AM
Hey Sparx.. just a quick idea.

Would it be possible to bring back the other server and use that for play-testing new missions without deathkick, and migrating the best missions over to 44+ with deathkick enabled?

Use the same settings for both servers, but give the lesser pilots a place to get thier fight on, while allowing the new missions a chance to be throroughly tested.

Also, have you thought about releasing mission guidelines for anyone who might be willing to create missions?

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
Specs:
More expensive than the dining set.
Less expensive than the couch.
Smaller than the dishwasher.
Just as noisy as the refridgerator.
Faster than the cars' computer.
Less practical than the car.
Face it, people who put thier computer specs in thier signature are pretty ****ing wierd.

</pre>

hos8367
05-04-2004, 11:33 AM
Baldie, I think sparx said the TOH server was borrowed and no longer available.

Sparx, tonight already? Sweet! Can't wait to try it out http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BaldieJr
05-04-2004, 12:24 PM
I guess I missed that part. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
Specs:
More expensive than the dining set.
Less expensive than the couch.
Smaller than the dishwasher.
Just as noisy as the refridgerator.
Faster than the cars' computer.
Less practical than the car.
Face it, people who put thier computer specs in thier signature are pretty ****ing wierd.

</pre>

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-04-2004, 03:15 PM
I keep seeing the concern bout the missions popping up. And guys i realize that the missions are going to have to be tuned for these new settings. So what i am asking is that you all just bare with it till we get it down. Keep giving the inputs. Let me konw what is working and what is not. THis is how the server is going to make this changed effectively.

When i design a mission, i have a typically have a number of targets in my head i want for the mission. Well i think i need to change this mentality. So while thinking about it today, i came up with this idea.

- All missions will be designed with the following format in mind. 15 players per side. Assume that 10 pilots will be fighters and 5 will be ground pounders. Targets will be set so that the mission can be complete if all 5 of the ground pounders run 2 successful sorties. There should be no problem running 4/5 sorties per map. So i will set targets like as follows. If a P47 can take out 5 ground targets in one sortie, then i will set 50 ground targets for that map. That is 5 targets times 10 sorties. If a FW190F8 can take out 2 targets in one sortie, then it will be 20 targets for that mission, 2 targets times 10 sorties.

Does this sound feasible? 10 players providing Cover and 5 ground pounders. Now you think, waht if there are not 5 ground pounders. Well you will not be able to win the mission then. Or the ground pounders that are there will have to work that much harder. The team will have to cooperate and work towards the common goal. How does this sound to you all?

Kinda amazing how enabling this one feature is going to change a DF server so much. The entire dynamics of gameplay will be changed. This to me is very exciting.

Questions, Problems, Concerns?

SPaRX

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-04-2004, 03:35 PM
Baldie,

I am have a txt file that i have been sending to people interested in building missions. I need to rewrite it now. I hope to do this by the weekend. Then anyone that is interested in making some mission can d/l this file. There have been a few that have made a few missions, and i'm sorry i havent got back to some of them. The missions they have been submitting are good, but not for the server. Lots of things i see are:

Too many objects. One had over 600 objects placed on the map.

Too few targets. For instance, 25 cars in the open. One pilot can take out 25 cars in a single sortie.

Thats really what i have mostly seen. As i said, i am going to try and get this done by the weekend. It will help alot if there is a team making missions. Another idea i have thought might work, maybe have a meeting with all those interested in making missions for the server. We can all get together on Teamspeak and have a Q&A session. This i think will be the best. So if anyone is interested in doing this Q&A session, email me with some times you are availible and we can set this up.

I just want to say a few words here to give you guys an idea on how I approach running any server i manage. Servers are for the community. The more input the design and settings get from the community the better. The more people in the community involved with the servers the better. Any comment, suggestion, or concernt that is voiced is always looked at by me if it is constructive. All I want and ever wanted was a High quality server that players want to play on. With that in mind I try and do whatever it takes to achieve this.

S~

SPaRX

fullrealfly3r
05-04-2004, 08:32 PM
Please consider revising the Belgorod map. I have heard many people voice their opinion in game and many people do not enjoy that map. I think it would be more enjoyable if the ground targets were inbetween the opposing bases. Also the bases are so scattered, 75% of the time you are just flying around. Its just hard to find a fight. I think everyone would agree, that what makes il2 enjoyable is the combat aspect of the game. It is what separates il2 from microsoft flight simulator 2004. I hope this post does not offend you.

roadczar
05-04-2004, 08:48 PM
Great idea SPaRX. I think it will elevate the level of game play by adding consequences to ones actions. It will promote team tactics and flying with wingmen. Teams with the best communications will prevail.

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-04-2004, 09:14 PM
Ok guys, the Deathkick is enabled. Let's see how this goes. More feedback the better

S~

SPaRX

brimigus
05-06-2004, 07:45 PM
Man what a great idea.it might force players into some tactics.but with no external views on the whole taxi problem might get u banned for life.just one respawn in front that u cant see and goodbye for the night.dont get me wrong i love the idea maybe u should have airstarts if you try these new settings