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View Full Version : Vulching thread - to extract the topic change from the P-63 thread



BpGemini
02-12-2004, 01:48 PM
Go ahead ya ninnys start typing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

BpGemini
02-12-2004, 01:48 PM
Go ahead ya ninnys start typing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

BpGemini
02-12-2004, 01:49 PM
What's been said:


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SKULLS_LZ:
Fehler not trying to flame you but I would like to set the record straight in regards to the word "vulching", which IMO gets misused in this forum. Shooting a plane on landing approach is not vulching. Vulching is shooting a plane at the spawn point (and I'm not saying that's wrong either). You are correct that shooting at AC on final is a 100% valid tactic and no one should whine about it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BpGemini:
In my opinion nowhere should be safe. As soon as you hit the fly button be ready for action. You and your team mates should protect each other and themselves from vulchers.

Just my 2c
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Magister__Ludi:
Ah vulching..
It may have been a legit tactic during the war, but the opposition they had in such airfield attacks was much more serious than what we have now on our virtual airfields. In ww2 escorted Sturmoviks did a lot of such attacks and suffered horrendous losses all the time: the AAA and whole enemy squads ready to defend the airfield made such missions almost suicidal. There are no such things in our petty virtual war. All we see online are questionable quality pilots trying to get easy points by attacking planes on the ground. IMO pilots attacking planes on the ground should be booted.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

BSS_Goat
02-12-2004, 01:56 PM
This is a war game and the object of war is to kill them before they can kill you soooooooooo
if given the chance I say shoot the hell out of them before takeoff, while smoking and on final approach. If you were an infantry soldier on a ambush would you wait for your victims to be ready before you opened up?

BpGemini
02-12-2004, 02:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Magister__Ludi:
Ah vulching..
It may have been a legit tactic during the war, but the opposition they had in such airfield attacks was much more serious than what we have now on our virtual airfields. In ww2 escorted Sturmoviks did a lot of such attacks and suffered horrendous losses all the time: the AAA and whole enemy squads ready to defend the airfield made such missions almost suicidal. There are no such things in our petty virtual war. All we see online are questionable quality pilots trying to get easy points by attacking planes on the ground. IMO pilots attacking planes on the ground should be booted.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Remember that there only 10-18 slots on the average server. If sides are even on a two-team server you have 5-9 guys per side. Online DF rooms are a much smaller scale than in RL on both sides of the fence. It‚'s not hard to protect your base against Vulching. Even on a server with 3 teams (like mine), where your team is always outnumbered it‚'s not hard to protect against it.

IMO the guys who whine about Vulchers are the real point *****s. Who cares if someone bounces you on landing or take-off. Learn to fight under tough conditions. I personally don‚'t vulch (if I do not very often at all and usually only when playing around with someone I know).

The terms skilless or questionable quality pilots when applied to vulching servers irks me a bit. Mainly because I‚'m positive it takes more skill to take-off in a lead bath than free and clear.

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IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

Inadaze
02-12-2004, 02:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BpGemini:
In my opinion nowhere should be safe. As soon as you hit the fly button be ready for action. You and your team mates should protect each other and themselves from vulchers.

Just my 2c
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah. I agree. I gets on my nerves when you continually get hit in the respawn points, but generally I don't mind some vulching. If we could make the airfields able to be captured or knocked out it would make it a more acceptable tactic maybe.

Generally I don't vulch unless it's happened to me first. But is there any kill more satisfying than bringing downa vulcher thats been bothering ya? Especially if it turns out he knows what he is doing.

Some of my fave games online have been dueling with vulchers. To me it's just part of the game.

Salute http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif ~Inadaze

XyZspineZyX
02-12-2004, 02:13 PM
It takes two to vulch: the vulcher and the vulchee.

If a guy spawning in doesn't check overhead, or listen for the siren to warn him about enemy overhead.... or he ignores this information rather than *gasp* take off from a safer airfield farther away from the action (omigod, that could take...a whole 5 minutes!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif )
then he deserves what he gets.

I'll take the easy kill as gladly as the difficult one. And idiots who can't be bothered to check airspace around them before taking off are the easiest of them all.

If, on the other hand, I spawn in, there's only one base and it's infested with enemy, I have to make a decision. Do I roll, try to escape low and get alt away from the fray, or just wait until the vulchers are gone? The latter seems the best solution, although sometimes you can get off the ground in a relatively safe manner. If the situation is really bad so that by rolling, I'd basically just be padding someone else's scoresheet, I'll sooner log. I'll give it a few minutes to clear up, but if it's a vulchfest, no thanks. Count me out.

But, the important thing is, I *check*. I don't just roar off with bullets impacting the area and aircraft flying down the tarmac strafing.

Magister__Ludi
02-12-2004, 02:19 PM
Not IMO, BpGemini. I can stay close to an airfield and shot down ANY plane that spawns or tries to land. I just have to take a Jug and circle at high speed over the airfield. Nobody can touch me because I'm fast and I don't try to outmaneuvre anybody - I can get plenty of kills this way. I don't see the fun in this, but others do. It's their only chance to get kills.

Just tell me a server (not your server) with airfields that are not protected by heavy AAA and see if you can spawn under my attack.

BaldieJr
02-12-2004, 02:22 PM
Vulch all ya want. Who cares really? If pinned, I grab an I-153 with rockets (unless i'm on one of THOSE servers where the admin had his rear handed to him by a pro in an I-153 and its been removed because said admin thinks its overmodelled (which makes sense because he wouldn't be caught dead in an 'uncool' plane, therefore he's completely clueless about it)).

As for people who attempt to redefine terms: you can't rewrite the dictionary to win. Shut your hole.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

BpGemini
02-12-2004, 02:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Magister__Ludi:
Not IMO, BpGemini. I can stay close to an airfield and shot down ANY plane that spawns or tries to land. I just have to take a Jug and circle at high speed over the airfield. Nobody can touch me because I'm fast and I don't try to outmaneuvre anybody - I can get plenty of kills this way. I don't see the fun in this, but others do. It's their only chance to get kills.

Just tell me a server (not your server) with airfields that are not protected by heavy AAA and see if you can spawn under my attack.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That‚'s part of it though. The host needs to create an environment that is effectively protected without adding too much packet loss/lag to the players. Also jumping in nimble anti-vulch planes is a good way to regain CAP control that should‚'ve never been lost in the first place.

As far as circling the base at high speed and swooping down to spawn points, it may be a more difficult proposition if a host takes precautions. For example, I placed cliffs near the spawn pads of each base on my maps. These cliffs make angling into spawn areas difficult and an AAA Concrete bunker guards the easiest way into the cliff-covered zone. This coupled with teammates running CAP and anti-vulch planes readily available and I just don‚'t see you having much success at vulching.

Look at everything above and tell me that doesn‚'t add a little excitement to the game. Think about the alternative, you have a bunch of hosts starting a bunch of nit picky rules that only water down the flow of the game and start clouded lines of perception of what those rules are.

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IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

XyZspineZyX
02-12-2004, 02:54 PM
Er, as the host, you could also populate the server with interesting ground targets front lines and a viable tactical situation, and place the airfields far enough apart so that it takes a concerted EFFORT and choice to go to the enemy bases to CAP or strafe them.

IMHO, placing "cliffs" around airfields is a pretty arcade approach. This is (usually) Russia; it's mostly flat. And there's a reason why most airbases *anywhere* were usually well back of the front lines when the armies could help it.

HellToupee
02-12-2004, 03:13 PM
its also arcade that their are even teams and balanced plane sets, plus balanced maps, they should be made highly imbalanced and have the russians vulched and vulched so they cant get airborn, all these anti vulch rules are very arcade.

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XyZspineZyX
02-12-2004, 03:20 PM
Funny...the later you go in the war, the more that role would be reversed.

BpGemini
02-12-2004, 03:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
Er, as the host, you could also populate the server with interesting ground targets front lines and a viable tactical situation, and place the airfields far enough apart so that it takes a concerted EFFORT and choice to go to the enemy bases to CAP or strafe them.

IMHO, placing "cliffs" around airfields is a pretty arcade approach. This is (usually) Russia; it's mostly flat. And there's a reason why most airbases *anywhere* were usually well back of the front lines when the armies could help it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The section of map I use already has hills and valleys (fog sets in the valleys). I can‚'t stand maps with bases far apart. I have a family so when I do get to play I want action and action instead of fly around for 15 minutes for 2 minutes of action.

I also like to add ground targets (a little bit of everything for everyone‚'s tastes).

I use a 3-team server, a (semi-historical what if) fictional scenario with Russia breaking off from the Allies. The bases are roughly the same distance apart from one another and they are placed in a circular pattern. Each base has its basic plane set following the theme Allies (Green) Axis (Blue) and Russia (Red). There‚'s only one base per side. Make no mistake, I want action, I want teams to work CAP and protect against vulchers. IMO its lame to have multiple bases or bases extremely far apart. On the other hand I want to create a difficulty or challenge to vulchers looking for an easy lunch. I disagree with any arcade label. I would call it fast-paced but most certainly not arcade. Arcade would be ‚"let me land‚"Ě or easy settings IMO.

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IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

BpGemini
02-12-2004, 03:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HellToupee:
all these anti vulch rules are very arcade. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree.

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IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

crazyivan1970
02-12-2004, 03:37 PM
Vulching is encuraged on my server, please be my guest, AAA is waiting for you... and guess what...when they make a swiss cheese outta of you, some fresh plane from the base near by (i have at least 2 bases per side) will arrive and put you out of your misery http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I could never understand hosts that have 2 bases 10km apart with AI bombers and no AAA. What gives? And the RULE says : No vulching by fighters!!! Makes me laugh every time when 2-3 B-17s or Pe-8s surround poor base turnfighting fighters and wasting anything that moves on the ground...either you landing, parked there or trying to take off. Real treat http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

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VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Menthol_moose
02-12-2004, 05:30 PM
I dont mind people occasionally vulching, and I sometimes do it myself. Nothing more enjoyable than shooting up some helpless aircraft with the 37mm . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

But what really pisses me off is that there are some people who continously and only vulch.

Playing on greatergreen, there is a particular dove of vulching that really annoys alot of people.

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Eh, mates! What's the good word?

georgeo76
02-12-2004, 05:43 PM
It's very frustrating to sit on the runway and be destroyed over and over again by one or more AC. I don't like it and I don't think anyone else dose either. However, like it's been said, Vulching is a problem easily solved by friendly action. Banning it on a server is silly, well designed maps don't lend them selfs to vulching.

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Showtime_100
02-12-2004, 06:42 PM
Noob alert!

I am new and have a couple questions. I've only done the Hyperlobby thing twice so far.

You earn points here? Where would I find my points and what are they for?
So you can spawn at other fields? I clicked a base at the beginning of the game and I thought I was stuck only flying for that country.
I come from Aces High. The 2nd time I joined a Hyperlobby server I got bombed on the runway and then vulched twice as I was taxiing. I assume there is no country-country war with base capture so I thought it was kind of weird plucking people while non lethal on the ground. I figured the whole point was to fight someone and get angles. (Sadly, when I did get into the air [and I'm only flying the Pony], I was owned by the 109s.)

VAIO Digital Studio‚ô RZ46G Desktop PCV-RZ46G
Pentium 4 3.20 GHz with HT Technology
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ATI Radeon 9800 XT 256 AGP

BaldieJr
02-12-2004, 07:14 PM
Points!

The only reason points exist is so that those who need validation can get it.

Hit the "S" key to see your, as well as others, points. Its also good for seeing what so-and-so is driving.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

Stalker58
02-13-2004, 04:04 AM
I bet that those who comdemn "vulching" also hate bouncig, they simly like if fighting goes the way they preffer, but FB is simulation of brutal war, there is no way to get out of this. What the difference if someone kill me just after spawning to killing me when I'm on approach flying &lt;200km/h with gear still up?

Altitude, speed, manoeuvre and.... CRASH!

robban75
02-13-2004, 04:43 AM
I don't vulch, and neither do I like being vulched, but it all depends on which maps. When the blue and red bases are far apart, I don't mind being vulched. However on smaller dogfight maps where bases are close together, I tend to think that vulching is not a fun thing. Like Georgeo put it, it's not fun to be destroyed over and over again by one or more aircraft. Meaning they circle the airfield waiting for you to hit the refly button. Just to destroy you before you even have time to hit the "I" key. Over,, and over.

But these are just my thoughts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

WOLFMondo
02-13-2004, 05:00 AM
I just don't like vulching cause when I want to dogfight, thats what I want to do.

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(FIN)-Cowboy
02-13-2004, 05:01 AM
My n00bish take on vulching:
I think anti-vulching rules are rather silly - although some real life comparisons about "this being war where there are no rules" are rather silly too...

If the host does not want people to vulch on their server, they should just put the following on all maps:
- at least two bases with enough flak to defend them for each side
- other objective(s) than plane amount (after all, no battle outside of BoB was won with fighters alone)

Menthol_moose:
You're not the only one who sometimes on GG gets annoyed at a certain vulcher of peace... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

--
Tylymiez - the official choice of n00b-hunters since 2002!

NorrisMcWhirter
02-13-2004, 06:28 AM
Hi,

In the server I fly in, vulching is forbidden unless you have a designated bomber type. It is also frowned upon for a/c to be shot down shortly after takeoff.

There are no rules for planes landing.

Within this framework, I generally give a/c about a minute after take off before I engage but then I don't hang around the enemy airbases that often.

For planes landing, I never shoot them down if they have their gear down and are on a geniune final approach (i.e. within approaching in a cone of ~ +/-60 degrees of the centreline of the runway) because, while it is a simulation, it is also a game to be enjoyed and nothing is more annoying that the noob/idiot that parks himself over the airbase simply vulching people on landing because it is the only way they can down something.

Having said that, if someone deliberately vulches me on landing, esp if they do it n times, I will go and deliberately shoot *the person involved* down while they are landing. No whining - simple payback.

With this in mind, the server has very few slanging matches between players because there is a level of gentlemenly 'respect' for each other which provides a more positive atmosphere.

Of course, not everyone wants that, so I imagine that the whole question of whether vulching is acceptable or not revolves around what the server is an 'on-line war' (in it's true sense) or a more general 'yeah, it's two sides competing but let's keep it reasonable'. i.e. In war, it's kill or be killed (so you do whatever places you at minimum risk) whereas, in the game, it's more of respect, scoring points and having fun.

Cheers,
Norris


================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam : http://cabinessence.cream.org/

More irreverence:
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73GIAP_Milan
02-13-2004, 07:14 AM
when I create my own maps, i just place so many flak at the homebases, that it's almost impossible to vulch.

besides being it fair or not, vulching was in wwII a actively used tactic, especially by the Luftwaffe during the BoB, they called it "Freie Jagd" and they shot A LOT of fighters down during their landing or takeoff..
But imho Vulching during an online airbattle quickly takes the fun out of the game, and i only see ppl going after someone that vulched 'em....

i have something against vulching with fighters, but when bombers may be used, it gets really funny sometimes...last week i saw a dogfight between 3 IL2 Sturmoviks...hilarious..

so...there you have it..my opinion.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Der Tote Baron a.k.a. SK_Black_Knight....
______________________________
Sky Knights Squadron Leader

Indianer.
02-13-2004, 08:36 AM
Who cares about the definition of vulching. I shoot planes wherever, its supposed to be a ww2 Combat flight sim. If ya dont like being shot at go play FS2004.

"Wer auf die preussische Fahne schwort, hat nichts mehr, was ihm selber gehort"

flyingskid2
02-13-2004, 09:15 AM
Anti-vulching solution: respawn in a bomber and shoot down vulchers from the ground with your gunner.

BpGemini
02-13-2004, 10:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyingskid2:
Anti-vulching solution: respawn in a bomber and shoot down vulchers from the ground with your gunner.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That's just one of several that Vulch whiners don't really care to learn.

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IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

SKULLS_LZ
02-13-2004, 11:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
Hi,

...
Having said that, if someone deliberately vulches me on landing, esp if they do it n times, I will go and deliberately shoot *the person involved* down while they are landing. No whining - simple payback.

With this in mind, the server has very few slanging matches between players because there is a level of gentlemenly 'respect' for each other which provides a more positive atmosphere.

Of course, not everyone wants that, so I imagine that the whole question of whether vulching is acceptable or not revolves around what the server is an 'on-line war' (in it's true sense) or a more general 'yeah, it's two sides competing but let's keep it reasonable'. i.e. In war, it's kill or be killed (so you do whatever places you at minimum risk) whereas, in the game, it's more of respect, scoring points and having fun.

Cheers,
Norris

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*takes a deep breath*
OK once again, a Vulcher is someone who shoots players' AC at the spawn point. Shooting planes on the apron right after they spawn is the *only* true "vulching" in FB. This is a very important point for all of us to understand. If a server has a rule of "no vulching allowed" that does not mean you are protected from being attacked because you are approaching your base at 200 Kph with flaps down.

Thanks again for your kind attention in this matter.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.jwilliamsmusic.it/belushi.jpg
Yeah I vulched ya. Now put a cork in it and pick another base before I bust a c@p in your sorry @ss.

WUAF_Badsight
02-13-2004, 11:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Der_Tote_Baron:
when I create my own maps, i just place so many flak at the homebases, that it's almost impossible to vulch. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


LIAR , LIAR , PANTS ON FIRE


i tried to make a DF map that would be impossible to vultch on

it had so much AAA firing at me that the game slowed down to 1 fps (if that !)

BUT I STILL FLEW STRIGHT OVER THE BASE AT 1000m ALT

AAA is useless & thinking its an effective solution for vultching is WRONG

yes it gets lucky now & then , but big deal



BTW i managed to get 1800 points once vultching a base in an IL2 , it was there only spawn point

when i finally ran out of ammo my team-mates had turned up & i was able to rtb : P

Jetbuff
02-13-2004, 12:20 PM
I think one host (forgottenserver?) had it just right in their briefing:

Strafing is shooting a plane on the ground - whether just spawned or landing. Nothing wrong with that. Vulching OTOH, is repeatedly strafing and hanging around airfields with the sole intent of strafing.

Strafing is not only a valid tactic, it adds to the paranoia of it all and creates a need for teamwork to avoid it, both big plusses in my book.

Vulching is a bit iffy. On the one hand, it rewards air superiority and the more coordinated team and it's fun (at least imo) from both ends. On the other, it's not realistic in the sense that no one in war would "hang around" the enemy base waiting for enemy planes to appear out of thin air. This can be ameliorated by having multiple fields per side, each at least 20km or more apart and well defended by flak/AA + strategic objectives. (i.e. hosts can create their maps to be non-vulching friendly) If the vulchers choose to remain at their perch, the opposing team can take-off from another airfield and either ambush the vulchers or anihilate their ground units.

What is despicable though, any way you cut it, are those players (no, not pilots) who do nothing BUT vulch while flying fighters. This is especially true in single base per side maps. Yeah, sure it's fun for you, but think of the poor guy(s) hitting fly repeatedly only to explode on the runway. How would you feel if the roles were reversed and your entire, hard-won, free evening is ruined because you couldn't take off?


So, my suggestion, when you see a "helpless" plane on an airfield below you, check to see if it's a single-airfield map. If it is, let it go and look for other targets. If it isn't... HEH HEH HEH! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Finally, regardless of whether you choose to strafe a plane or not, remember that sticking around to do it again is now vulching. Of course if you're in a ground-attack plane, ignore all of the above and LET 'EM HAVE IT! :P http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/sig.jpg

BpGemini
02-13-2004, 01:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
i tried to make a DF map that would be impossible to vultch on

it had so much AAA firing at me that the game slowed down to 1 fps (if that !)

BUT I STILL FLEW STRIGHT OVER THE BASE AT 1000m ALT

AAA is useless & thinking its an effective solution for vultching is WRONG

yes it gets lucky now & then , but big deal



BTW i managed to get 1800 points once vultching a base in an IL2 , it was there only spawn point

when i finally ran out of ammo my team-mates had turned up & i was able to rtb : P<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



I agree that too much AAA does more to crap up the game play with stutters and freezes than helps with anti-vulching. I disagree that AAA is useless though. If you take moderate AAA and squeeze the vulching lanes it will narrow the field of vulching opportunity therefore increasing the chance of AI AAA success.

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IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

Magister__Ludi
02-13-2004, 01:46 PM
I very much agree with all you said Jetbuff, those who are circling around an airfield for the sole purpose of attacking spawning aircraft or planes that had already landed are the real vulchers that should be booted. Straffing an airfield is OK as long as the base has a good AAA defence.

One little story regarding vulchers (from my personal online experience), nicely revealing their twisted logic: one night in order to escape vulching on a 2 airfield map I took a Me-262. Soon the guys vulching me started to cry that they were right from the beginning to vulch me, all jets should be vulched anyway http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. Ok then, I said. Five minutes later after clearing the airfield area of all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif enemy aircraft they started to moan that jets should be disabled, because you never see them comming and you cannot catch them to answer the threat. I replied them that this is very much like vulching, Me-262 is the vulcher of the planes that already took off http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif, and as long as they agree with vulching it should be ok. It wasn't for them, after another 5 minutes they all agreed to load a different map with Me-262 removed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif It's very hard to endure vulching, even for dedicated vulchers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

[This message was edited by Magister__Ludi on Fri February 13 2004 at 12:59 PM.]

BpGemini
02-13-2004, 01:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jetbuff:
I think one host (forgottenserver?) had it just right in their briefing:

Strafing is shooting a plane on the ground - whether just spawned or landing. Nothing wrong with that. Vulching OTOH, is repeatedly strafing and hanging around airfields with the sole intent of strafing.

Strafing is not only a valid tactic, it adds to the paranoia of it all and creates a need for teamwork to avoid it, both big plusses in my book.

Vulching is a bit iffy. On the one hand, it rewards air superiority and the more coordinated team and it's fun (at least imo) from both ends. On the other, it's not realistic in the sense that no one in war would "hang around" the enemy base waiting for enemy planes to appear out of thin air. This can be ameliorated by having multiple fields per side, each at least 20km or more apart and well defended by flak/AA + strategic objectives. (i.e. hosts can create their maps to be non-vulching friendly) If the vulchers choose to remain at their perch, the opposing team can take-off from another airfield and either ambush the vulchers or anihilate their ground units.

What is despicable though, any way you cut it, are those players (no, not pilots) who do nothing BUT vulch while flying fighters. This is especially true in single base per side maps. Yeah, sure it's fun for you, but think of the poor guy(s) hitting fly repeatedly only to explode on the runway. How would you feel if the roles were reversed and your entire, hard-won, free evening is ruined because you couldn't take off?


So, my suggestion, when you see a "helpless" plane on an airfield below you, check to see if it's a single-airfield map. If it is, let it go and look for other targets. If it isn't... HEH HEH HEH! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Finally, regardless of whether you choose to strafe a plane or not, remember that sticking around to do it again is now vulching. Of course if you're in a ground-attack plane, ignore all of the above and LET 'EM HAVE IT! :P http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/sig.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



I agree with the definitions of vulching you presented but since vulching is not a real world defined term it is open to differing opinions of its definition. However, it is understood in the same general way.

I disagree with the one base server being unfair to those on the ground. I prefer hosting with one base. I also don‚'t vulch. That should lead you to believe that I‚'m either stupid Ė crazy Ė or like a challenge. If you say the first it reveals that you‚'re a coward, the second you‚'re probably right but the third is the real reason. One base per side forces the teeth of the dog backed up against the corner to act. It also brings a greater urgency to not let your base become overrun with enemy planes. As far as ‚"the poor guy(s) hitting fly repeatedly only to explode on the runway‚"Ě they need to hit ‚ėI‚' faster and get to it. Also their teammates should help them off the ground.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

Zayets
02-13-2004, 02:24 PM
What a heck you call vulching?
being shot while on the ground? You bunch of wussies! Learn to survive or at least die with dignity!Geeeez,can't believe it! Everything is moral in a war.And that includes unexpected casualties.Errrr...people who let themselves being vulched.Ya heard me right!You think is easy to vulch?Step in my Sturmo and show me how easy it is.Can't believe there are still people whinning about this!

Zayets out
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-iar80pic.jpg

BpGemini
02-13-2004, 02:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Magister__Ludi:
I very much agree with all you said Jetbuff, those who are circling around an airfield for the sole purpose of attacking spawning aircraft or planes that had already landed are the real vulchers that should be booted. Straffing an airfield is OK as long as the base has a good AAA defence. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Booting someone for vulching is lame in my opinion. There are better and more interesting (fun) ways to deal with them.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>One little story regarding vulchers (from my personal online experience), nicely revealing their twisted logic: one night in order to escape vulching on a 2 airfield map I took a Me-262. Soon the guys vulching me started to cry that they were right from the beginning to vulch me, all jets should be vulched anyway. Ok then, I said. Five minutes later after clearing the airfield area of all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif enemy aircraft they started to moan that jets should be disabled, because you never see them comming and you cannot catch them to answer the threat. I replied them that this is very much like vulching, Me-262 is the vulcher of the planes that already took off http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif, and as long as they agree with vulching it should be ok. It wasn't for them, 5 minutes later they agreed to load a different map with Me-262 removed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif It's very hard to endure vulching, even for dedicated vulchers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sounds like the jet whiners and the vulching whiners should‚'ve quit there whining and scrapped with a little more grit in their nails. ‚"They agreed to load a new map‚"Ě is lame; they shouldn‚'t have loaded a new map. They should‚'ve kept vulching if that‚'s what they wanted to do and you should‚'ve kept taking that jet up if you wanted to. Each side should‚'ve toughed it out and overcome the situation, but that‚'s just me.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

BpGemini
02-13-2004, 02:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zayets:
Can't believe there are still people whinning about this! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Neither can I actually. The good news is ... about a year ago it seemed the online community was on it's way to Tea and Crumpet land. Now it seems the majority is more along the lines of "grow a pair" and fight.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

[This message was edited by BpGemini on Fri February 13 2004 at 02:06 PM.]

Magister__Ludi
02-13-2004, 02:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BpGemini:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zayets:
Can't believe there are still people whinning about this! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Neither can I actually. The good news is ... about a year ago it seemed the online community was on it's way to _Tea and Crumpet_ land. Now it seems the majority is more along the lines of "grow and pair" and fight.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gem, do you keep jets on your map? I might pay a visit http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Magister__Ludi
02-13-2004, 02:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zayets:
What a heck you call vulching?
being shot while on the ground? You bunch of wussies! Learn to survive or at least die with dignity!Geeeez,can't believe it! Everything is moral in a war.And that includes unexpected casualties.Errrr...people who let themselves being vulched.Ya heard me right!You think is easy to vulch?Step in my Sturmo and show me how easy it is.Can't believe there are still people whinning about this!

Zayets out
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-iar80pic.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Zayets, you're missing one thing. There are no spawn areas in real life. Also there are no refly buttons. That's why there never were planes cicling around enemy airfields in real life. Too risky and unproductive.
Vulching is very much arcade and destroys any feeling of reality. Please don't call vulching a real world tactic.

[This message was edited by Magister__Ludi on Fri February 13 2004 at 02:01 PM.]

BpGemini
02-13-2004, 03:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Magister__Ludi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BpGemini:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zayets:
Can't believe there are still people whinning about this! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Neither can I actually. The good news is ... about a year ago it seemed the online community was on it's way to _Tea and Crumpet_ land. Now it seems the majority is more along the lines of "grow and pair" and fight.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gem, do you keep jets on your map? I might pay a visit http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


My favorite hosting map has a version with and without. I only host the one with next time. Feel free to stop by.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

BpGemini
02-13-2004, 03:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Magister__Ludi:
Zayets, you're missing one thing. There are no spawn areas in real life. Also there are no refly buttons. That's why there never were planes cicling around enemy airfields in real life. Too risky and unproductive.
Vulching is very much arcade and destroys any feeling of reality. Please don't call vulching a real world tactic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


There‚'s a blending of individual historical elements and an overall sim/game atmosphere in IL-2. A good mix of the two is the recipe for fun. Too stuffy of a server is just dry and bland. Too easy of settings is just too arcadish for my taste.

A lot of things in a DF server are continuous. I think of the well-put together DF servers as miniature ever looping co-ops. Whether it be a continuous loop of bombing runs by one team or a continuing loop of vulchers or a bunch of stragglers or a combination of the three, you should just deal with each accordingly. Whining and making rules to stop them is just silly to me.

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

Magister__Ludi
02-13-2004, 03:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>BPGemini: (strange I cannot quote you)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To me it is easy to make difference between (fast, real world) straffing run and (cheesy, arcade) vulching circles. That's my opinion as a simple user, I'm not a host, I don't make rules. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
But I would play anytime on your server http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif just tell me the name.

-------

One more thing that may be overlooked by hosts: as a host you always have some guys that know you well and would defend you, but as a user having to change the server everynight in order to find the "ideal" settings, that does not happen. There's only you caring for your skin. This is one more reason why vulching becomes an issue.

BpGemini
02-13-2004, 04:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Magister__Ludi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>BPGemini: (strange I cannot quote you)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To me it is easy to make difference between (fast, real world) straffing run and (cheesy, arcade) vulching circles. That's my opinion as a simple user, I'm not a host, I don't make rules. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
But I would play anytime on your server http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif just tell me the name. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I host in Hyperlobby under BlitzPig_Gemini. I usually host every Saturday but since this Saturday is Valentines Day and I'm married well..... I may be hosting tonight instead. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Feel free to stop by if I'm on (with jets this weekend). http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

crazyivan1970
02-13-2004, 04:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Originally posted by Magister__Ludi:
Zayets, you're missing one thing. There are no spawn areas in real life. Also there are no refly buttons. That's why there never were planes cicling around enemy airfields in real life. Too risky and unproductive.
Vulching is very much arcade and destroys any feeling of reality. Please don't call vulching a real world tactic.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In RL it was called flying a cap over enemy airfield. Very common tactic on the eastern front. Flights of fighters suppressing airfields and destroying AAA, and while they at it... anything that flies, rolls or stands still is being a subject of their attack. Then Sturmoviks or bombers will show up and finish up the rest. But quiet often alerted fighters would come up from airfield next door and ...
That`s what missing in quiet a few servers. One base per country is plain silly IMO. But that just me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

XyZspineZyX
02-13-2004, 04:22 PM
The Japanese also did a bit of this loitering and vulching during their ascendency in the Dutch East Indies and other places.

Often, it was too risky to do more than one pass at a field... but that's not to say it was always like that.

Vulching DID occur.

Magister__Ludi
02-13-2004, 04:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
The Japanese also did a bit of this loitering and vulching during their ascendency in the Dutch East Indies and other places.

Often, it was too risky to do more than one pass at a field... but that's not to say it was always like that.

Vulching DID occur.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vulching did occur, but it was used only initialy, with airforces that thought they could take huge losses. Such raids were very unpopular with pilots. I would ask crazyivan what was the average survivability for such Sturmovik missions: 10-20? Was it a viable tactic? Sturmovik was very vulnerable to interception and flak. That's why only suprise attacks were used against airfields as the war progressed. Take a look at this list to see how vulnerable Il2 was:

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/stormovik.html

WUAF_Badsight
02-13-2004, 04:42 PM
well shooting someone on the ground is kinda cheap

why dont you just let them get airborn & then both parties get to have fun

Showtime_100
02-13-2004, 04:47 PM
This really isn't WW2 and there is no attrition and loss of life. You aren't fighting for a cause or to win territory. No real point in shooting someone defensless unless you can't handle competition because it's not about anything other than the dogfight. At least that's what I'm looking for when I select a pixellated aircraft to fly.

WUAF_Badsight
02-13-2004, 04:48 PM
ok Question : if a guy gets a kill in the air ........

doesnt he deserve the points ?


isnt shooting a plane thats obviously landing kinda crappy thing to do?

this is a game & if you have any sence of gameplay then youll do your shooting at airborn planes


your only spoiling other peoples fun

is that how you want to play ?

crazyivan1970
02-13-2004, 04:50 PM
Majority of IL-2 Sturmovik planes were brought down by flak, numbers are different, from 60% to 80%, other losses are enemy fighters, accidents, breakdowns...etc. Number of IL-2 Sturmovik brought down by enemy aircraft dropped down by big margine in late 1942 , early 1943 with introducing a two seater and use of proper tactics.
Yes , there were major losses. But trust me, IL2 was probably the toughest ground pounder in WW2, high casualties of IL2 crews and planes could be explaned by lack of training, especially for group leaders and "Must be done, no matter what" approach. Average life of IL-2 crew was 3 mission. Sad statistics.

"On 14 (or 16?) February 1945, Otto Kittel took off to intercept a flight of Russian Il-2 Sturmovik ground-attack aircraft over Dzukste, Kurland. Witnesses say that Kittel dove into a formation of eight of the ground-attack aircraft. He damaged one but it did not go down, instead, disappearing back over the Russian lines, on fire and in serious trouble. Kittel‚'s Fw 190 A-8 (W.Nr. 960 282) ‚"Black 1‚"Ě was hit by return fire from the other Il-2s and burst into flames. The aircraft plummeted to earth, trailing a long sheet of flame and smoke, where it crashed. Otto Kittel had no chance to take to his parachute.
"

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

robban75
02-13-2004, 04:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
ok Question : if a guy gets a kill in the air ........

doesnt he deserve the points ?


isnt shooting a plane thats obviously landing kinda crappy thing to do?

this is a game & if you have any sence of gameplay then youll do your shooting at airborn planes


your only spoiling other peoples fun

is that how you want to play ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It happens all of the time. Lowering flaps and gear, turning onto final, a bogey approaches. Will he let me land? I'm 2 seconds away from touching down, bullets swoosh by, snap! There goes the wing, crash and burn, I get killed. and that's the way it always has been.

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

LeadSpitter_
02-13-2004, 05:03 PM
If the server allows vulching/strafing, theres no problems with it at all. Many times people go into a fit you shot me trying to land, "didnt you see my gears were down, you have no respect, your have no honor at all etc. so I usually shoot thier pilot too and they get more mad http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif stat servers have planes/pilots so I always shoot bailers so our team wins

First off they should check thier 6 before landing, second if its allowed in ther server they shouldnt b*tch about it or get booted and fly the little kiddie servers who dont allow vulching.

The game has payloads and they are ment to be used on ground targets and airfields.

If I spawn and get killed no big deal, I'll just spawn at one of the other bases and go to the base being attacked simple as that.

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
VIEW MY PAINTSCHEMES HERE (http://www.il2skins.com/?planeidfilter=all&planefamilyfilter=all&screenshotfilter=allskins&countryidfilter=all&authoridfilter=%3ALeadspitter%3A&historicalidfilter=all&Submit=+++Apply+filters++&action=list&ts=1072257400)

BpGemini
02-13-2004, 06:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
well shooting someone on the ground is kinda cheap

why dont you just let them get airborn & then both parties get to have fun<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


It may be "cheap" for the vulcher to do but not all of us are bummed by vulchers tactics. In fact bringing together tactics of our own to remove them is part of the fun and that's from a person on the ground's point of view.

What wouldn't be fun is constantly fighting the same type of fight. i.e. each climb to the same altitude and fight then hit eject and repeat or land and repeat. I want the fights in the air but I also want the full immersion.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

BpGemini
02-13-2004, 06:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
ok Question : if a guy gets a kill in the air ........

doesnt he deserve the points ?


isnt shooting a plane thats obviously landing kinda crappy thing to do?

this is a game & if you have any sence of gameplay then youll do your shooting at airborn planes


your only spoiling other peoples fun

is that how you want to play ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Again it may be kind of crappy to do but I can live with it. Last weekend I was shot while landing and lost 500 points (1 TB-3 and 2 Yaks). I thought the vulcher was in check with my team mates and I made the bad decision of trying to land before they discipated him. What did suck about it was I successfully landed but it said I crash landed so I only got 50 points. Now, that's something that needs to be fixed along with the bent prop 'crash landed' bug.

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

BpGemini
02-13-2004, 06:13 PM
Well..... looks like I wont be able to host a server tonight got plans.

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

Magister__Ludi
02-13-2004, 08:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BpGemini:
Well..... looks like I wont be able to host a server tonight got plans.

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif np mate, we'll meet another time. My wife got plans for me too this night http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif early celebration

Magister__Ludi
02-13-2004, 08:27 PM
I'm sorry crazyivan, I didn't intend to sound insulting or provocative. I just wanted to say that attacking airfields was very costly, and circling around airfields was done only early in the war. Most of the time there was only one straffing run. That does not mean that raids decreased in effectiveness because of that. No, the squadrons got better. I saw pictures after one Sturmovik attack, and all aircrafts hidden in a small wood close to the runaway were destroyed.

HellToupee
02-13-2004, 09:08 PM
how is it unenjoyable to be shot down upon landing, there is nothing nothing at all to get rarked about, i mean gettin shot down on landing just speeds up your return to the fight, you lose nothing at all cept a few points but points mean nothing at all.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

crazyivan1970
02-13-2004, 09:10 PM
I am not insulted by all means bud, just saying that things were getting done at all costs... unfortunately soviet command would not take no for an answer most of the times.

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

arcadeace
02-13-2004, 09:32 PM
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1076732995.jpg

MosDef_99th
02-13-2004, 10:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Showtime_100:
This really isn't WW2 and there is no attrition and loss of life. You aren't fighting for a cause or to win territory. No real point in shooting someone defensless unless you can't handle competition because it's not about anything other than the dogfight. At least that's what I'm looking for when I select a pixellated aircraft to fly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree it's one thing when flyin on the old TX-OC3- crowded wargame type servers where there are plenty enough fellow pilots to CAP the field and its closer to war type settings with objectives. Then vulching should be encouraged if u can make it through to the base.

But if its only a few pilots on either side, or its woefully uneven, its lame to just hover over a base and kill anything that spawns. And I don't wanna hear that bullsh@t is this case about being a wargame and all, most people who fly in that case are looking for a skillfull air to air challenge, not some moron refusing anybody in the air saying "war is hell".