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View Full Version : POLL: The ultimate IL-2 dogfighter v.2.04.



Atomic_Marten
08-24-2004, 06:25 PM

Atomic_Marten
08-24-2004, 06:25 PM

Sandman_UK
08-24-2004, 06:55 PM
I really cannot see why everyone goes on about the Spitfire. It is flown by a lot of people cos they like the design i think. In regard to the planes you have listed i think it comes in last. Its lack of combat flaps hinder it and when slightly damaged its performance turns to nothing. It also has a very bad roll rate. On the plus side it has great cannons and goot top speed and a good turn rate, but is in no way Uber.

The Ki-84c and La-7 are quite superior! and they Yak and late Mk 109's are a match! so i just dont understand these constant comments.

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/sandmanUK-c5b9.jpg

breakfast_yeti
08-24-2004, 07:09 PM
LA-7 with the B-20s. All the others... too slow.

Jaws2002
08-24-2004, 07:44 PM
IAR-81C hands down. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v258/<FA>Jaws/Uber2sm.jpg

PBNA-Boosher
08-24-2004, 09:51 PM
YaK-1B Baby! Lilya Litvyak's Yak-1b!

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

Dammerung
08-24-2004, 09:51 PM
I-153, everything else is a tool

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

BaldieJr
08-24-2004, 10:00 PM
Another vote for I-153. Its the best dogfighter in the game.

<A HREF="http://officemax.secureportal.com/" TARGET=_blank>
Hey ya'll prepare yourselves
for the rubberband man!</A>
http://www.fighterjerks.com/rbman.png
http://www.fighterjerks.com

ElAurens
08-24-2004, 10:42 PM
P40E (and only the E).

The only aircraft that I can fly with any success against JimmyGiro with. And it just looks so friggin cool to boot.

And I will second with the I 153. When you absolutely, positively have to turn inside someone.

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

Maj_Death
08-24-2004, 10:51 PM
I-153 for agility, Me-163 for speed and climb, Me-262 overall. For non jets I'd pick the La-7 for overall best dogfighter. The Spitfire is only average, the Yak-3 and Ki-84 are mediocre at best.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spelling mistakes left in intentionally to annoy tttiger.

Maj_Death here, I/JG1_Death at HL

I build COOPs and DF maps. If you would like some of them you can get them atmy COOP page (http://www14.brinkster.com/triggerhappy770/default.htm)

I/JG1 Oesau is recruiting axis pilots who prefer to fly maximum realism. We accept both veterans and rookies. We fly in VEF2, VWF and may join other online wars in the future. I am currently the acting CO, if you are interested in joining please PM me here or page me in HL.
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WUAF_Badsight
08-24-2004, 10:52 PM
Spitfire Mk9

most dominant Fighter in FB

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Vladimir_No2
08-24-2004, 11:09 PM
P.11c, or J8A- the best in my opinion. Generally, the 30's aircraft make the best pure TnB dogfighters.

-Vlad
http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v255/vladimir_no2/polishsig.jpg
Der Spaziergang uber Warshau

F19_Ob
08-24-2004, 11:16 PM
Fiat Cr42 normally fights above its capabilities on GG and F16, meeting more advanced ,newer fighters.
Even when meeting the J8 its on disadvantage due to its visibility and spinn characteristics, although its marginally faster.

A plane for the true artists of the air.....hats off to the few who fly this unlikely creation.
As Capt.Haddock puts it ( think it was him):

"Its not a plane to see out from, but to be seen in".

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

[This message was edited by F19_Ob on Wed August 25 2004 at 02:44 AM.]

jeanba2
08-25-2004, 01:39 AM
THe TB-3 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Cajun76
08-25-2004, 02:16 AM
The Brewster. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Good hunting,
(56th)*Cajun76
http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/p47nh.jpg (http://www.airwarfare.com/)&lt;Click for Mudmovers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
If you have trouble hitting your objective, your secondary targets are here and here,
an accordian factory and a mime school. Good luck, gentlemen. - Admiral Benson Hot Shots

Capt.LoneRanger
08-25-2004, 03:41 AM
Spit is uber? Don't think so - well, at least they are really fun to shoot down. You just shouldn't underestimate her diving speed and turn rates - but that applies to any plane http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Ki's and La's should have been modelled, as they were in WW2, not as they were initially designed. While the Me262's engines are very fragile, the Ki's and La's are the designers dream, without the weaknesses of the original. Both modells suffered from bad manufacturing processes. Indeed, Japanese factories spared up to 1/2 the bolts at the end of the war.
The La's, I can't stop bringing the example, were so sluggy, that an entire squad of high-quality La7, that were built *after* the war, was rotten beyond repair in a three weeks, as they were sent to a tropical area...

I still prefer P40s. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/Arcadiac/LRSig.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
08-25-2004, 04:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
While the Me262's engines are very fragile,
Capt.LoneRanger <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the Me-262 motors flame because thats how they worked from fast throttle action

they havent been made to flame due to historical "fragileness"

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ednavar
08-25-2004, 04:51 AM
Gladiator all the way..

S!

Capt.LoneRanger
08-25-2004, 04:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> the Me-262 motors flame because thats how they worked from fast throttle action

they havent been made to flame due to historical "fragileness" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hm, aren't you just contradicting yourself, Badsight?

That's how they worked - that was not to make them historical fragile? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif


I'd say if the fact that they catch fire is "how they worked", they actually MADE them fragile in this regard!?

I'm not whining to tune some fighters down for balance or something, in case you thought this was the point. It's just that the Me262 is a good example for implementing the weakness of a plane in service. Just like the stuttering engine of early planes in negative-G.

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/Arcadiac/LRSig.jpg

Tully__
08-25-2004, 05:05 AM
No plane is best. Nearly all have circumstances where each one has an obvious advantage. The trick is to get your opposition to allow you the oppurtunity to arrange those circumstances http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/sig.jpg

Tully's X-45 profile (SST drivers) (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip)

Salut
Tully

AlexDavies
08-25-2004, 05:09 AM
i find the gladiator best. it's too slow for anything to stay on it's tail long enough to shoot it down, and can out-turn just about any axis plane.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/T_O_A_D/alexcopy.jpg

Cajun76
08-25-2004, 05:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
Spit is uber? Don't think so - well, at least they are really fun to shoot down. You just shouldn't underestimate her diving speed and turn rates - but that applies to any plane http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Ki's and La's should have been modelled, as they were in WW2, not as they were initially designed. While the Me262's engines are very fragile, the Ki's and La's are the designers dream, without the weaknesses of the original. Both modells suffered from bad manufacturing processes. Indeed, Japanese factories spared up to 1/2 the bolts at the end of the war.
The La's, I can't stop bringing the example, were so sluggy, that an entire squad of high-quality La7, that were built *after* the war, was rotten beyond repair in a three weeks, as they were sent to a tropical area...
I still prefer P40s. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/Arcadiac/LRSig.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


If your going to bring this example , you ought to bring the whole thing, not just the part that suits you. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Someone posted this report a while back, the whole thing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Yes, they were rotten beyond repair in 3 weeks, but they were never designed for the tropics. Russia is cold, and rot-proofing wood for hot, humid weather was most likely not a priority. Secondly, IIRC,the planes were found to have lost 50% of thier original strength. This sort of degradation (although on a longer time-frame) was anticipated and designed into the production. With 50% less strength than originally built, the plane was still rated for full performnce speeds and G's. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Good hunting,
(56th)*Cajun76
http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/p47nh.jpg (http://www.airwarfare.com/)&lt;Click for Mudmovers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
If you have trouble hitting your objective, your secondary targets are here and here,
an accordian factory and a mime school. Good luck, gentlemen. - Admiral Benson Hot Shots

Capt.LoneRanger
08-25-2004, 06:24 AM
Well....

Please don't forget that the supply lines to Stalingrad were disrupted BECAUSE of the humid climate and the wet ground before and after the long winter. They were simply stuck in the mudd. So, this area is not Siberia - Russia cover a great deal of different cimatic areas, INCLUDING tropical (subtropical) areas. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Besides that, the actual battlefield of Stalingrad, where the SpearHead of the Wehrmacht was defeated is closer to the equatorial line, than Germany - and Germany is definately not icy.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/Arcadiac/LRSig.jpg

JG26_Heinrich
08-25-2004, 06:25 AM
109 k4

[This message was edited by JG26_Heinrich on Wed August 25 2004 at 06:27 AM.]

Udidtoo
08-25-2004, 06:59 AM
Yawn.......(don't you hate when people just reply yawn?)

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

ruf9ii
08-25-2004, 09:59 AM
the spit IX has one of the best rate of climbs in the game. if anyone gets on your 6, u can usually spiral climb out of harms way and drop down on top of them.

the YP-80 owns too, but dunno if u count it

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
08-25-2004, 10:12 AM
Spit IX the higher the better.

can handle all planes verry well at 7k and higher

http://home.arcor.de/sebastianleitiger/other%20Stuff/we%20rule%20your%20world3.jpg (http://www.hell-hounds.de)

IV_JG51_Prien
08-25-2004, 11:14 AM
JU87 D5......

http://www.jg51.net/downloads/squadbanner.bmp

Intruder_GP
08-25-2004, 11:38 AM
The Yak3P all the way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Lord-Raptor
08-25-2004, 02:06 PM
Spitfire all the way, best aircraft ever (in my view) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

During the Battle of Britian, Hermann Goering asked Adolf Galland "What do you need to defeat the British?" to which Galland Replied "A Squadron of Spitfires"

Tvrdi
08-25-2004, 03:18 PM
Ki84 and Spit IX as they represented in FB...not realistic IMO...like yaks and Las used to be in first release of Il2...

WUAF_Badsight
08-25-2004, 11:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:

Ki's and La's should have been modelled, as they were in WW2, not as they were initially designed. While the Me262's engines are very fragile, the Ki's and La's are the designers dream<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the Me262 motors flame due to their design , not due to a moddeled historical weakness in the manufacturing process

asking for one set of planes to be made weaker in FB due to historical manufacturing processes & then giving the Me262 motors ability to flame are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS

planes in FB are as in "perfectly made" condition , fresh from the factory & no plane ought to be singled out

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
08-25-2004, 11:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cajun76:
Yes, they were rotten beyond repair in 3 weeks, but they were never designed for the tropics. Good hunting,
(56th)*Cajun76
_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i work with wood in my job

for a freshly made wooden plane to rot in three weeks would have required certian circumstances & in no way should this one example give any indication of the normal dis-intergration time for the wooden Lavochkins

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Cajun76
08-26-2004, 07:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cajun76:
Yes, they were rotten beyond repair in 3 weeks, but they were never designed for the tropics. Good hunting,
(56th)*Cajun76
_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i work with wood in my job

for a freshly made wooden plane to rot in three weeks would have required certian circumstances & in no way should this one example give any indication of the normal dis-intergration time for the wooden Lavochkins

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rgrt, I definately agree. Louisiana, USA is considered sub-tropical, and I've seen wood of all types, either last and last, or rot quickly, depending on conditions. His example seems like an isolated incident, and not typical, especially since the rest of the report is not included. The planes were overbuilt and even after suffering 50% loss of original-built strength, they were still capable and rated for full performance. Sounds pretty impressive to me, although I'm not a big fan of the La. Still got to respect it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Good hunting,
(56th)*Cajun76
http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/p47nh.jpg (http://www.airwarfare.com/)&lt;Click for Mudmovers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
If you have trouble hitting your objective, your secondary targets are here and here,
an accordian factory and a mime school. Good luck, gentlemen. - Admiral Benson Hot Shots

Capt.LoneRanger
08-26-2004, 08:08 AM
@ WUAF_Badsight:

You still didn't get me. I don't think that the LA should be turned down or any other plane. I'm not whining anywhere to turn down LAs only, or some other single plane.
What I would like to see is exactly what you (and I)said: This sim modells the planes as they were designed, not as they actually faced combat. To give you another fine example: The Gun of the P39 was know to jam frequently. It would give an additional thrill to simulate these failures, don't you think so? And that is all I suggested would be cool, as an option or whatever. (these examples shouldn't even be difficult to model)


@ Cajun76
If you know the article, then of course you know, that this squad was grounded. Keep it to the truth, please.
Besides that, as being an architect, I can asure you, that ANY untreated wooden construction being continuously exposed to rain and very humid climate will suffer from fungal decay and insects.
Besides that, as you work with wood, too, you surely know, that untreated wood will absorb the water and grow, and when dried, it'll shrink. If that happens for a few weeks, with daily exposure to rain and then drying periods, there is no way any structure will hold.
According to my "KonstructionTables for Engineers", wet wood has 1/6th the strength of dry, treated wood. According to European right, for any supportive construction, the weights have to me multiplied with 1.8 - that is for beams........ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/Arcadiac/LRSig.jpg

diomedes33
08-26-2004, 09:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
Online. Regardless of period in war. Hmmm... after a while online, I have noticed what are the favourite picks of online majority. With my experience I have managed to compile a short list of 'most wanted' ones http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif, and I'll be glad to see that u give me your opinion as well. So here they are, true champions of IL-2 virtual sky (from top to bottom, my view of ultimate ones).


Why I put them this way:

1. Ki84(c) series after a serious second thought http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. ++Lot of reasons plus the way that baby is armed. -Only fragility LMAO.

2. Spitfire IX series. ++Spit is the closest in my view to the KI84.

3. LA7. +Everything very good. -From my point view, lack of proper weapons installed.

4. Yak3P. +Everything. -Speed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting list. With the exception of the Spit IXs I see many more p51s, fw190s and bf109s online then these other three.

My 2 cents, the pilot makes the plane, not the other way around.


aka 3./JG51_Specter
http://www.public.asu.edu/~guthriec/ubi_sig.jpg

Kartveli
08-26-2004, 10:34 AM
I find it funny how the Ki84C is grouped in with "dogfighters" when it is much better suited to BnZ....

I don't see as many ppl fly the Spit anymore, I guess the novelty has wore off...remember how many P38s were up not very long ago?

Too bad for the Ki84 though, it's a fine type, pleasant to fight and fly in...just that damned 1C model really turns me off...

I can't decide what is more boring to fly, the La7 or the Ki84C...

For me, as far as the best "dogfighter" in FB goes, it is simple...the A6M2, which will out-turn every monoplane in FB...but if there are any biplanes about the A6M2, then one has to go with the J8...which can out-turn all the biplanes...J8's smoke I-153...

If we have the J8 flyable, then we do we not have the AI Glad. mkII as flyable?

The B 17 is also a great dogfighter, believe it or not...just need 2k in this bird and fly er like a fighter

Atomic_Marten
08-26-2004, 03:11 PM
P47_driver B17 is dogfight monster I give you credit for that. I fly that baby online and believe or not, in every flight scored 2 enemy planes approx. I'd say it is really good dogfighter for bomber. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif But it's worth to mention that I never come back home in one piece in that bomber http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif.

BTW on this POLL ppl are free to express their oppinion. (yes folks, that means that you can put G.50 on top of the list too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif).

Fly safe http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

LuftLuver
08-26-2004, 04:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by P47_driver:

For me, as far as the best "dogfighter" in FB goes, it is simple...the A6M2, which will out-turn every monoplane in FB <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The P47 will fly rings around the Zero without breaking a sweat. So no to the Zero.

"The B 17 is also a great dogfighter"

I've a funny story regarding that. A squadmate was dragging a Zero back to home base and when he saw I was goofing around with the Fort he figured he was finished. Then I dove down and filed right in behind the Zero and the AI nose gunner promptly sawed his wing off. Got the whole server laughing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

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http://members.cox.net/kinetic/SigImages/tonystewartchevy.jpg
"All your road courses are belong to us."

VW-IceFire
08-26-2004, 10:11 PM
Best dogfighter is the La-7. Firstly, while stalls are easily occuring if you're hard on the controls, its very forgiving when it does stall. Secondly it has an awesome power to weight ratio. Thirdly its got an excellent turn. Fourthly its got average to decent firepower which is ideal for a fighter but not as an interceptor. Finally, its able to take damage better than the Ki-84, the Yak-3, or the Spitfire.

In comparison to the Spitfire V and IX, the La-7 rolls better, turns better, carries similar firepower, and accelerates and has a better top speed at low altitudes. Against the Spitfire XIV, it'd be different...with similar advantages until 6000 meters where the XIV would totally take control of the situation.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RAF No 92 Squadron
"Either fight or die"

CrazyDonut
08-27-2004, 01:01 AM
Well think the term "#dogfighter" is kind of ww1 like....in game with no "real historical" comparison i would go:

Lag 3-IT
109G6A/S
Spit 43 with entire wing..looks A6M3 like with the cliped ones and hate the handling lol

and these 3 planes are quit fun to have in same game...they match up pretty good

Cajun76
08-27-2004, 04:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
@ WUAF_Badsight:

You still didn't get me. I don't think that the LA should be turned down or any other plane. I'm not whining anywhere to turn down LAs only, or some other single plane.
What I would like to see is exactly what you (and I)said: This sim modells the planes as they were designed, not as they actually faced combat. To give you another fine example: The Gun of the P39 was know to jam frequently. It would give an additional thrill to simulate these failures, don't you think so? And that is all I suggested would be cool, as an option or whatever. (these examples shouldn't even be difficult to model)


@ Cajun76
If you know the article, then of course you know, that this squad was grounded. Keep it to the truth, please.
Besides that, as being an architect, I can asure you, that ANY untreated wooden construction being continuously exposed to rain and very humid climate will suffer from fungal decay and insects.
Besides that, as you work with wood, too, you surely know, that untreated wood will absorb the water and grow, and when dried, it'll shrink. If that happens for a few weeks, with daily exposure to rain and then drying periods, there is no way any structure will hold.
According to my "KonstructionTables for Engineers", wet wood has 1/6th the strength of dry, treated wood. According to European right, for any supportive construction, the weights have to me multiplied with 1.8 - that is for beams........ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/Arcadiac/LRSig.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, you already stated that the planes were grounded. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Not disputing that. I remembered the part about them still being fully rated for performance because it seemed pretty cool. I don't remember enough of the article to recall if they went opperational again. It sounds like improper maintenence, to me. I can ground a C-130 just by putting a red X in the a/c forms and taking a panel off. Grounded planes can fly again. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif You aren't trying to say that the La-7 was un-treated are you? I'd find that extraodinary. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif If you have this favorite article, please post it, I'd like to save it. Forgot to last time I saw it.

Good hunting,
(56th)*Cajun76
http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/p47nh.jpg (http://www.airwarfare.com/)&lt;Click for Mudmovers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
If you have trouble hitting your objective, your secondary targets are here and here,
an accordian factory and a mime school. Good luck, gentlemen. - Admiral Benson Hot Shots

Capt.LoneRanger
08-27-2004, 05:00 AM
Here is the article:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Foot Notes

In his initial choices of birch and pine Gorbunov had indeed allowed the mass production of fighter aircraft using material native to Russia. Aircraft when manufactured were done so with a life expectancy under combat conditions of months rather than years. The wood was not treated with any preservative and so its natural life was not long by "normal air craft" standards. In deed only 2 examples of the La mark survive today. (Both La-7's one at Prague Kbely museum the other at Moscow Monino Museum) In fact the frames were so vulnerable to fungicidal attack that when a squadron was sent to a subtropical climate (after the war) all planes were grounded and lost due to weakened structural members so attacked. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the link:
http://www.btinternet.com/~fulltilt/deshist.html

But I think you confused that story with this:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> One post war incident does reflect the design considerations undertaken by Lavochkins engineers. The country to operate La-7's and La-5FN's longest was in fact Czechoslovakia who maintained them operationally until 1950(Russia dropping the mark by 1947). In 1946 they grounded all but 2 of the mark on the basis of structural degradation. An investigation was conducted to find that the air frame strength had been reduced by half. After initial alarm it was later discovered that Lavochkins engineers had allowed for this in their calculations and that the craft were still fully combat worthy! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But these are different reports http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/Arcadiac/LRSig.jpg

Vladimir_No2
08-30-2004, 01:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kartveli:
For me, as far as the best "dogfighter" in FB goes, it is simple...the A6M2, which will out-turn every monoplane in FB...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The I-16 and P.11 are both monoplanes that out-turn the A6M2. Also, the A6M is very sluggish in a roll, and it is outclassed by both the I-16 and P.11 here also. The A6M has a speed avantage over these aircraft, but as we are talking about pure "dogfighters" which implies Turn-and-Burn fighting, speed is not more important than turn and roll rates.

-Vlad
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/vladimir_no2/pzlsig.jpg

Cajun76
08-30-2004, 05:07 AM
Well, as I said, it has been quite awhile since I read that site, and both accounts do appear on the same page. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I'm still not sure what your trying to say about the La-7. You seem to imply it was somehow weakly contructed, or not made to last a long time compared to other designs. But that goes for most, if not all of the planes built for WWII. Yes, some of them were built tough, but they weren't built to last for years like todays aircraft. Also, tropical conditions are very hard on machinery in general, and aircraft in particular, no matter if they are wood or aluminum.

http://home.att.net/~Historyzone/Seversky-Republic6.html

Halfway down the page:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>To say that the pilots of the 9th were less than enthused with the P-47 would be nothing less than a gross understatement. These pilots had developed a deep abiding faith in the P-38. The security of two engines could not be underestimated. Especially when one considers the huge tracts of open ocean in the SWPA. Nonetheless, their tired Lightnings were becoming a maintenance nightmare. The constant use (and, some would say "abuse") and tropical conditions had combined to result in worn out engines, systems and electrical bugs that kept the squadron's mechanics working 18 hour days just to meet the basic operational requirements. In addition, the actual airframes were beginning to show the wear and tear of hard use. In short, the P-38s, mostly G models, were long overdue to be retired to less demanding training duty. Kenney ordered that the 9th transition to the P-47. On November 12, 1943, the remaining P-38s were handed over to a maintenance squadron and the 9th began training with the Thunderbolt. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

P-38G's started arriving in the Pacific in early 1943. A full 11 months in service is being very generous. So, it's not only the La-7 that suffers from heat, moisture and hard conditions. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Good hunting,
(56th)*Cajun76
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/CajunsSig03.gif (http://www.airwarfare.com/)&lt;Click for Mudmovers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
If you have trouble hitting your objective, your secondary targets are here and here,
an accordian factory and a mime school. Good luck, gentlemen. - Admiral Benson Hot Shots