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tsisqua
08-02-2004, 02:15 PM
Hello All http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

For over a year now, my mate, Skidro, and I have been trying to piece together a squad based on the Fighting 79th, 79th Fighter Squadron, of the 20th Fighter group. We had three members, and one of them has flown the coop. We had all of Skidro's research for the actual squad, a website, and I had missions, scenery, and other work involved as well.

For those who do not know, Skidro has maintained a website for the 20thFG Association, which consists of surviving pilots, friends, and family members. Skid has become acquainted with several of the surviving pilots, one of them possibly the first P-38 ace in the ETO, Jack Ilfrey. So the resources for making this a historically accurate squad were abundant.

Now, the problem is that Skidro is, at present, working on an interactive CD as a tribute to the real 20th Fighter Group. That, coupled with his other work, has consumed his every spare second, and nobody wants to see it completed any more than I do, but it has to be right, and I would never push him to hurry. In the meantime, I've been waiting, at least until last week.

While online at HL, I noticed that there were guys wearing 20thFG uniforms with their online names. I asked if I could fly with them a bit, since we had this kinship. It seems that their squad is based on the entire 20th Fighter Group, and have as subgroups the 77th, the 79th, and the 55th Fighter Squadrons. Rather than seeing a conflict here as to having two different squads based on the same history, I was asked to join. I contacted Skidro, and after a long talk, we will both be joining the 20thFG, first me, then Skid after his CD is completed.

All of Skidro's research will be very valuable to the squad, as well as anything else that we had done toward getting our squad off the ground. It is almost as if fate had prepared us to be a part of the new squad. Very odd, indeed.

I must say that I am enjoying the flying with new pilots, and making new friends online. This is my first squad since making the big move to IL2. I used to be in Aces High (squad, not the sim), in CFS2, and in CFS1, I was in the RAF112th, and flew Spitfires.

Well, I know that this has no bearing on anyone else's FB experience, but I thought that you folks might enjoy the story of how it came about. I found it a bit strange, but then, like I said, truth really is stranger than fiction.

Thanks
flying online as 20thFG>Tsisqua

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-bird1.JPG

tsisqua
08-02-2004, 02:15 PM
Hello All http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

For over a year now, my mate, Skidro, and I have been trying to piece together a squad based on the Fighting 79th, 79th Fighter Squadron, of the 20th Fighter group. We had three members, and one of them has flown the coop. We had all of Skidro's research for the actual squad, a website, and I had missions, scenery, and other work involved as well.

For those who do not know, Skidro has maintained a website for the 20thFG Association, which consists of surviving pilots, friends, and family members. Skid has become acquainted with several of the surviving pilots, one of them possibly the first P-38 ace in the ETO, Jack Ilfrey. So the resources for making this a historically accurate squad were abundant.

Now, the problem is that Skidro is, at present, working on an interactive CD as a tribute to the real 20th Fighter Group. That, coupled with his other work, has consumed his every spare second, and nobody wants to see it completed any more than I do, but it has to be right, and I would never push him to hurry. In the meantime, I've been waiting, at least until last week.

While online at HL, I noticed that there were guys wearing 20thFG uniforms with their online names. I asked if I could fly with them a bit, since we had this kinship. It seems that their squad is based on the entire 20th Fighter Group, and have as subgroups the 77th, the 79th, and the 55th Fighter Squadrons. Rather than seeing a conflict here as to having two different squads based on the same history, I was asked to join. I contacted Skidro, and after a long talk, we will both be joining the 20thFG, first me, then Skid after his CD is completed.

All of Skidro's research will be very valuable to the squad, as well as anything else that we had done toward getting our squad off the ground. It is almost as if fate had prepared us to be a part of the new squad. Very odd, indeed.

I must say that I am enjoying the flying with new pilots, and making new friends online. This is my first squad since making the big move to IL2. I used to be in Aces High (squad, not the sim), in CFS2, and in CFS1, I was in the RAF112th, and flew Spitfires.

Well, I know that this has no bearing on anyone else's FB experience, but I thought that you folks might enjoy the story of how it came about. I found it a bit strange, but then, like I said, truth really is stranger than fiction.

Thanks
flying online as 20thFG>Tsisqua

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-bird1.JPG

capt_frank
08-02-2004, 02:41 PM
congrats! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://home.bellsouth.net/coDataImages/p/Groups/118/118940/pages/277850/30.jpg

lil_labbit
08-02-2004, 02:52 PM
Great story Tsisqua - thanks for telling http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And good luck in the 20th http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/lilseesya.jpg
Night is better than Day

B16Enk
08-02-2004, 03:29 PM
So like mine your LOMAC disc is now purely decorative http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Nice and relevant tale Tsisqua http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fate is like that........

tsisqua
08-02-2004, 03:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B16Enk:
So like mine your LOMAC disc is now purely decorative http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Nice and relevant tale Tsisqua http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fate is like that........<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uhmmmm, yeah, I just wasn't getting the satisfaction that I wanted out of LOMAC, And, er . . . well, darnit, B16Enk, yes, it is a coaster for my drinks now.

Tsisqua

FA_Maddog
08-02-2004, 03:46 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by tsisqua:


This is my first squad since making the big move to IL2. I used to be in Aces High (squad, not the sim), in CFS2, and in CFS1.......

Tsisqua was that Danger's old squad your talking about?

BTW congratulations on joining a new squad. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

tsisqua
08-02-2004, 03:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FA_Maddog:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by tsisqua:


This is my first squad since making the big move to IL2. I used to be in Aces High (squad, not the sim), in CFS2, and in CFS1.......

Tsisqua was that Danger's old squad your talking about?

BTW congratulations on joining a new squad. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rgr that, on General Danger. Good guys in that squad, and I still see alot of them at the HL . . . Iceman, Pez, Fasted, etc . . . Ah . . . Pacific Fighters will show MS how to do a real PTO sim http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Tsisqua

SKULLS Virga
08-02-2004, 04:20 PM
Congrats Tsisqua!

Is there a link to your new home?

http://img68.photobucket.com/albums/v206/SKULLS_Virga/Signature_2.jpg

p1ngu666
08-02-2004, 05:47 PM
aslong as u happy mate http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

tsisqua
08-02-2004, 06:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SKULLS Virga:
Congrats Tsisqua!

Is there a link to your new home?

http://img68.photobucket.com/albums/v206/SKULLS_Virga/Signature_2.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rgr, and thanks. The site is under construction, and is being worked on now by Skidro. You can see what is there at the moment . . .The best stuff is in the history pages. Some of the links are working, but remember, it isn't finished yet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tsisqua http://www.geocities.com/hq20fg/

And here's hoping that Skid doesn't shoot me for this. LOL

initjust
08-02-2004, 06:25 PM
". . . Ah . . . Pacific Fighters will show MS how to do a real PTO sim"

Does this mean that PF will have real world geography? Will we be able to fly from Pearl to Midway?

Will the entire PTO be available in one large, real world map that will allow me to fly from Henderson to Rabaul to Mokeran to Hollandia to Merir to Ngesebus to Oceania and on to Tinian refueling as needed along the way and even stoping for the night and resuming my flight the next day?

Will I be able to recreate Doolittle's raid on Tokyo beginning from a modified launch point (modified by moving it from where they really launched to a point 200nm from Japan (not the 700-800nm they actually launched from) and only in an effort to limit the time required to complete the scenario to about 7 hours) to landfall on the Chinese coast (after flying across the East China Sea) trying to find and land at Chuchow which represents a total distance of some 1200nm?

Will the elements required for real world navigation like multiple temp layers, multiple wind layers, mag declination, etc. be modeled?

Will we need to take air density and wind and their impact on course and the IAS/TAS/GS relationship into account when flying?

Will a 400nm flight on a real map even be possible?

Will we be able to open up a world atlas and compare the shape of all the islands we fly over to their shapes in the atlas and be able to identify them?

If PF provides all of this then it just might be a worthy PTO simulator. If it doesn't then it will probably just be a really good game with a PTO theme.

I am not dissing PF by any means. All I am trying to point out is that in order for a game to be classified as a true simulator it needs to have some things that the IL2 series currently lacks.

Whether PF will be a simulator or just a game remains to be seen.

tsisqua
08-02-2004, 08:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by initjust:
". . . Ah . . . Pacific Fighters will show MS how to do a real PTO sim"

Does this mean that PF will have real world geography? Will we be able to fly from Pearl to Midway?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know. Neither do you. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Will the entire PTO be available in one large, real world map that will allow me to fly from Henderson to Rabaul to Mokeran to Hollandia to Merir to Ngesebus to Oceania and on to Tinian refueling as needed along the way and even stoping for the night and resuming my flight the next day?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably not.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Will I be able to recreate Doolittle's raid on Tokyo beginning from a modified launch point (modified by moving it from where they really launched to a point 200nm from Japan (not the 700-800nm they actually launched from)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, it seems more accurate to me to start in the air near the target if you don't want to fly all that way. You can do that (Start from the water, off the map) with the maps we have available already. See LuckyBoy about it . . . he's done it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>and only in an effort to limit the time required to complete the scenario to about 7 hours) to landfall on the Chinese coast (after flying across the East China Sea) trying to find and land at Chuchow which represents a total distance of some 1200nm?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uhh . . . I thought you wanted a "real" simulation.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Will the elements required for real world navigation like multiple temp layers, multiple wind layers, mag declination, etc. be modeled? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the truth is: none of us know how much weather is actually in the game already. Er, unless you have the source code, and can tell us about it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Will we need to take air density and wind and their impact on course and the IAS/TAS/GS relationship into account when flying?

Will a 400nm flight on a real map even be possible?

Will we be able to open up a world atlas and compare the shape of all the islands we fly over to their shapes in the atlas and be able to identify them?

If PF provides all of this then it just might be a worthy PTO simulator. If it doesn't then it will probably just be a really good game with a PTO theme.

I am not dissing PF by any means. All I am trying to point out is that in order for a game to be classified as a true simulator it needs to have some things that the IL2 series currently lacks.

Whether PF will be a simulator or just a game remains to be seen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Both CFS series, and IL2/FB/AEP are simulators. They are both good at simulating certain things. CFS is good at simulating the location of real world terrain. As for the appearance of said terrain . . . well, I completely lose the sense of accomplishment because I am flying for hours over a cartoon landscape, but yes, at least it is there. All the flat terrain, bridges that lies on top of a badly painted road, complete with water that also looks more like a child's drawing than H2O and runs under the roads anyway. . . yep . . . it's all there.

When I want to get close the experience of flying, I play IL2. It simulates the most important aspect of what makes a simulated flight experience: . . . the damn airplane. I may have to make some allowances for the aspects that are missing, but the experience of flight is still there, bigtime.

For example, fire up CFS3, and adjust your prop-pitch, or any of the other things that we have in IL2's CEM option.

Oops. You can't. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

What was the last time that you had a plane in CFS come to pieces, the damage based on the situation. Nope . . you get the same damnaged preloaded model every time that you get shot down.

I'm in no way taking what you said personally, and it makes for a damn good discussion. My comment was an incidental remark, and came from someone who has rediscovered the game, and has always been a big fan of IL2.

It wasn't the topic of the thread, but thanks for posting your thoughts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Tsisqua

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-bird1.JPG

SKIDRO_79FS
08-02-2004, 09:05 PM
Tsisqua, just wait till I get my hands on you! LOL, just wait! One day I'll be on your six and I will remind you of this post!

Just a few corrections though... The 20th. Ftr. Grp. website I created and maintain (albeit poorly as it's in dire need of an update and complete rebuild) is not sanctioned by the 20th. Fighter Group Assoc. They did give me an honorary membership for all my work and research but have never officially recognized the site.

Secondly, the multi-media CD-Rom I am currently putting together is only on the 79th. Fighter Squadron as there are already other researchers out there who are compiling books on the 55th. and 77th. so there's no need for me to duplicate their work. It is wonderful to see such under publicized units get the recognition they deserve and their stories preserved for future generations. I wish there were more people out there were making sure these stories are not lost forever.

BTW, I opted to do a CD instead of a book when I saw the printing expenses for the printing of a fellow researcher's book were astronomical. I did a little research and, copy for copy, the CD was the more logical choice - especially considering the whole cost of this project is coming out of my pocket, and I'm by no means independently wealthy.

Finally, the site that Tsisqua posted is only a temporary one. There will be a permanent home for the virtual 20th. Fighter Group coming at a later time. I slapped this together in a few hours just so the Group would have a presence on the net until that time.

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/SKIDRO-signatureimg.jpg
VICTORY BY VALOR, GENTLEMEN TO THE END

initjust
08-02-2004, 09:47 PM
Tsisqua,

Yes this is not the topic of this thread but your statement about PF will show MS how to do a real PTO simulation seemed a bit premature given that no one yet knows, and those that do can't divulge, what PF will really be.

I am interested in a real simulation and the ONLY reason I would adjust the Doolittle start location is/was to reduce the time requirement to fly the mission from 16+ hours to a more sensible 7 or so. Not too many people can find the time to sit and fly a single mission for 16+ hours. Hell, not many people have the interest in flying more than few minutes in any one scenario.

It is a question of simulating reality being balanced against game play.

However, moving the start point in no way lessened the experience nor did it make the recreation less of a simulation.

We each have our own ideas of what makes a game become a simulation.

You want to focus on the "damn airplane" that's fine if that is where your interest lies. The airplane certainly is an important aspect of making a game a simulator. It is important for me too.

At the same time, for me, there are many, many other aspects that are every bit as important as the airplane is that help make a game a simulation.

I think a discussion of scenery is probably not going to be productive since there are glaring weaknesses in any game and it would simply deteriorate into a subjective discussion and objectivity would be one of the very first casualities of the discussion.

Additionally, IL2:FB is not the only place one can find complex engine management and the need for fuel conservation efforts, but, in all my IL2 and IL2:FB experience I have never once been in any kind of organized scenario that required aggressive fuel management practices due to needing to fly at the extremes of the plane's fuel capabilities in order to complete the mission.

However, this dimension can certainly be introduced by loading less than a full fuel load but that also cuts down on the distance that can be flown.

For me, and this is just one point of interest for me and it may not be something that interests you or anyone else, it is interesting to have a scneario with distances such that a full load of fuel IS required AND aggressive fuel management techniques are needed to complete the flight. At the same time this usually also results in a single scenario being more than 3 hours in duration.

A scenario of this nature also provides opportunities for needing to do real world navigation needing to take into account air density, wind, mag declination, etc. provided these aspects are modeled in the game.

This type of scenario is certainly not going to be interesting to someone who is not inclined toward long boring flight segements that may or may not, depending on whether the flight finds any enemy aircraft or not, have very brief but intense periods of air combat.

As I said in the last sentence of my first post, we will just have to wait and see what PF is.

tsisqua
08-02-2004, 10:25 PM
IniJust, I am really starting to like you. A good argument with good people is rare here, and I LOVE it! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I must agree with you that we are both seeking different things from our simulations. My first, and foremost love is the airplane. I did a free trial of Aces High, and I know that AH has the most complex engine management system of any sim, yes, even IL2. I submit here as well . . . it's just that the AH arena doesn't appeal to me, for reasons that I'd rather not say for fear of offending someone.

And, on these points, you have to agree with me that when given the knowledge of the current version of IL2, more complete maps of the Pacific theatre, coupled with the addition of the quality modelling that we are accustomed to . . . If PF is going to be nothing more than another IL2 addon, it will have to be one hell of a game . . . and in my eyes at least, simulation of WWII PTO aviation combat.

I'm very glad to have made your acquaintence, InitJust

Tsisqua

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-bird1.JPG

tsisqua
08-02-2004, 10:33 PM
Skidro, my apologies for the errors, but not for bragging rights on you, my friend. Pals like you come along once, or twice in a lifetime, and I'm a very lucky man to know you.


Sorry, but I'm not leaving my wife for ya, though. Ok? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-bird1.JPG

initjust
08-02-2004, 11:27 PM
Tsisqua,

I agree. Far too often there is little of objective discourse and too much of subjective emotion when it comes to a discussion of particular aircraft, weapons and/or the game itself.

This has been a pleasant enough exchange, Thank-you.

I bought CFS2 when I learned about it. I bought IL2 when it was released. I bought IL2:FB when it was released. I bought CFS3 when it was released and took it back the next day for a variety of reasons.

I will, most likely, buy PF when it is available. How much time I spend on PF will be determined 100% by how well it offers me the kinds of total experiences I am looking for in a PTO game/simulator.

I am a bit leary that it will not meet some of the aspects that I consider to be essential ingredients for a PTO simulator but only time will tell.

SKIDRO_79FS
08-03-2004, 04:01 AM
quote: Sorry, but I'm not leaving my wife for ya, though.Ok?

Awwwwwwwwwwwwww shucks and here I had my bags all packed and ready to go!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/SKIDRO-signatureimg.jpg
VICTORY BY VALOR, GENTLEMEN TO THE END

bazzaah2
08-03-2004, 04:26 AM
good for you - being in a squad adds a nice extra dimension to enjoyment of FBetc.

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