PDA

View Full Version : Overall feedback to AC games



Okmetik
05-25-2015, 09:57 PM
I've been meaning to write some feedback for a long time (by the long time I actually mean years), but I finally convinced myself to do it, after buying AC:Revelations and deciding to finish Ezio story line.

I've been playing AC games since the beginning (both on XBOX and PC), and I like the series very much. But I've been kinda sad with the direction, AC franchise is taking. I don't mind the story. I've more or less liked all the stories, some more, some less. Ezio had awesome story drive, Connor was a little slow in the beginning, but the world made it up where story lacked. Same with Edward and Ships, and Arno there it was 50/50 (story vs. world I mean Paris). Now during the writing I've realized, I've forgot about the AC: Rogue. Need to buy that one, and I am still to finish some DLC, but that's not what I wanted to write about. Like I said I was more or less satisfied with story in all AC games, so now for the important part.

What in my opinion is huge step back, and what makes me sad the most is, the direction of combat system. In AC 2 & 3 the combat system was awesome. More weapons to pick from, nice kills chaining, good defense system, and awesome animations (especially but not only with daggers or tomahawk). But starting with AC 4 the combat system took huge step back. here's why:

Switching parry from good old prince of persia system, to new press button at the good time system isn't very good. Especially with the random camera, where I was often attacked by the guy, who I didn't even see on my screen.
Removing weapon wheel as such. I really miss randomly switching from sword to heavy weapon, then when I felt like using dagger or tomahawk switching to that, and then back to sword. Sometimes all that in one fight. My favourite was throwing heavy sword to first unfortunate guy, and picking it back after the fight ended. I just loved that overhead throw.
Removing chaining kills. With that, and combination of counterattack kill, my assassin really felt like assassin, A killing machine with proper training. With latest games, especially with good swordsmen (guy with flat hat in Unity) it felt more frustrating then actually rewarding. Before I liked combat, lately I was actually avoiding it, just because it wasn't such fun anymore. (and it's not about difficulty, with previous system some fights were also quite challenging, especially with some ranged enemies, and I had to left scene in hurry many times to save my skin)
Removing using enemy as living shield against another ranged enemy. Here is just one question... Why? Rolling in order to avoid shots is just weird. And not very good anyway if not timed perfectly. (and by perfectly I mean perfectly.)
And last point is probably animations. Some finishers are kinda nice, but a bit stiff. I really liked time times moving between enemies like the predator, well oiled machine, who knows what he's doing, and well it just doesn't feel like it sadly. And I'm talking about combat animations. Overall game animations are way better, that's I have and I'm not afraid to admit.


Also it's kinda shame, that you have removed buying shops and recruiting Assassins, but that was removed earlier and it doesn't bug me as much as the combat system. I understand, that naval missions kinda replaced sending assassins to the missions, so no complain there, but sending your personal assassin to kill someone was just nice :)

So not to be just negative, I liked ships in Black flag, and the nature. Beautifully done. Legendary ships, very nice idea... I like the crowds in Unity and the up down button. Finally there is some control over the parkour. It's still missing something, but I don't know what, so definitely good thinking there :) Towards the skillpoints I'm kinda neutral. It's not a bad idea, but well it would be nice to get enough skillpoints from the story line. I'm not playing AC with friends, and I'm not enjoying coop missions with strangers that much.

I would be really glad if someone would read this feedback, and I would be even happier if it would bring some valuable insight to at least one gamer's mind :)

sorry for the long post. I had to get it out. Now I'm going to finish that Ezio story.
Keep up the good work, and bring back our lovely combat system :-D (if possible)

What a day... What a lovely day.
Ondrej

Okmetik
06-04-2015, 09:16 AM
Wow I guess no one cared... It's nice to know tho...

strigoi1958
06-04-2015, 10:20 AM
cared about what ?

you made a statement.... it doesn't require a response.

you could have made it a poll or asked if people agree or disagree but you just stated an opinion and we all have those.

I would suggest you try the console section they are involved in debate and they outnumber the pc members a lot (maybe 100 to 1) and there are more pc members over there than here.

and this has had 148 views. So people have read it.

Sorry I just read that back and it sounded awful.... I didn't mean to appear rude. :o

strigoi1958
06-04-2015, 10:52 AM
ok so what you are saying is you liked....

easy kills by chaining and easy defence by human shield. Well lots of people thought the killing in early games was far too easy so perhaps Ubi listened to that.
The key to roll is the same key as human shield for me so it is just "the defence" key to me.... I press it and it does an animation but the human shield was too easy, you could grab a shield very early.... if the timing for the human shield was the same as the roll, so it took a bit more practice then it wouldn't matter so much.

The parry works well even if it doesn't always say on screen and timing is better than button mashing to defend.
If you are in a melee that requires chaining kills.... that is not being an assassin, that is being a brawler... I have played co-op with lots of people in Unity in order to learn and they are all good assassins..... all of them with one exception went through heists with very few kills and often unseen... in fact one guy was incredibly fast and only used smoke bombs... true assassin stealth skills :D.

I like the homestead, the trading, the missions and the community.... it is simpler in Unity but it is similar to renovations and income in the early games.

I liked the whistle and that is returning in Syndicate.

Also I have found the game is better if we adapt to the style that suits the game rather than wanting each game to adapt to our favourite style. the first time I did a heist with 100% reward it was very satisfying. I do not get in hack and slash fights with a lot of guards now.

Okmetik
06-04-2015, 11:55 AM
Maybe just something like "Thanks for feedback" so I would know someone in Ubi has read it :) Or some reasons why combat system was changed to current state.... I might try putting it to PS forum then :)

strigoi1958
06-04-2015, 01:54 PM
There are Ubi forum staff here... but whether there is anyone from the game design here I'm not sure. Things do get noticed here but your post about wanting the combat to be easy and running round killing lots of people has been brought up hundreds of times before... years ago when the combat system first changed sorry. And Ubi would have had to paste "thanks for the feedback" thousands of times for the same remarks :(

The combat system was far too easy... you could take on a hundred enemy and kill them all... players noticed this and asked for a challenge, plus being an assassin is not running around killing huge numbers of people it is about getting past a huge number of people to kill a specific target.

People complain if things change while others complain when they do not.... so it is impossible to please everyone... As I said before try to adapt to each game... the way I see it... Connor is different to Arno and different to Edward and different to Altair... so I think that I'm playing how they would play... not how Ezio would play.:D

Once you understand you cannot run around killing like in a call of duty game you will find it more rewarding.

The easy way has gone... nothing will bring it back and I'm afraid this is a very old subject that has been discussed a lot over the years even though it is new to you.

Okmetik
06-08-2015, 04:15 PM
ok so what you are saying is you liked....

easy kills by chaining and easy defence by human shield. Well lots of people thought the killing in early games was far too easy so perhaps Ubi listened to that.
The key to roll is the same key as human shield for me so it is just "the defence" key to me.... I press it and it does an animation but the human shield was too easy, you could grab a shield very early.... if the timing for the human shield was the same as the roll, so it took a bit more practice then it wouldn't matter so much.

The parry works well even if it doesn't always say on screen and timing is better than button mashing to defend.
If you are in a melee that requires chaining kills.... that is not being an assassin, that is being a brawler... I have played co-op with lots of people in Unity in order to learn and they are all good assassins..... all of them with one exception went through heists with very few kills and often unseen... in fact one guy was incredibly fast and only used smoke bombs... true assassin stealth skills :D.

I like the homestead, the trading, the missions and the community.... it is simpler in Unity but it is similar to renovations and income in the early games.

I liked the whistle and that is returning in Syndicate.

Also I have found the game is better if we adapt to the style that suits the game rather than wanting each game to adapt to our favourite style. the first time I did a heist with 100% reward it was very satisfying. I do not get in hack and slash fights with a lot of guards now.

Actually I'm playing revelations right now, and it's not that easy. I'm in chapter 5 and so far I could count proper chain kills on one hand (by proper I mean I have killed all the guards in the area by one chain) And well like I said, I was enjoying fighting in previous AC games but in Unity for some reason it's between frustrating and boring. Pretty much killing everyone by furiously pushing x except elite swordsman for who you need to parry or use bomb. So tell me how much better is the combat system. Comparing to Bats for example where it looks awesome feels like batman, but also it's very easy to get spanked. I was doing amazing combos there as well, then I didn't played the game for few months and when I played some DLC I got my *** kicked. So like old AC games it's not just easy, but it's easier to get better.

For example what I missed in Revelations was sneaking. Truth is there is no sneaking there is just hiding in the crowd which is not much. So I'm not saying Unity is bad game, just that for me combat was step back.

strigoi1958
06-08-2015, 08:53 PM
I think of it as a step sideways ;) whenever something new appears, it is not necessarily better or worse..... just different. If AC combat had started with Altair using Unity combat and Unity using Ezio's combat then some people would complain that they liked the "old" combat.

Some people like to be able to kill a lot of people easily (and I was one of them) AC3 I could defeat a fort easily and just keep using human shield then kill some more Brutes and Jagers.... but it is a bit unrealistic for 1 man to melee kill 60 or 70 armed aggressive soldiers while alarms are going off...

I think one of the achievements was to kill 10 Jagers without running away.. and I could kill them all day long.

I think this was told to Ubi and combat has become a last resort.

If you try NOT to kill people... or be quiet or clever when you kill then you will be playing more like an assassin and more like Arno. I found the best way is to do the heists... and try to complete them 100%.

Use your weapons, smoke bombs, gas grenades, berserk darts. sometimes it is better to let them kill themselves while you wait in the shadows.

ACE7492
06-10-2015, 06:13 PM
[QUOTE=strigoi1958.... but it is a bit unrealistic for 1 man to melee kill 60 or 70 armed aggressive soldiers while alarms are going off...

;QUOTE]

I get that, but dodging a gunshot......yeah, that's realistic. Human shield is a better idea. (Maybe on a stunned enemy only to keep it from being too easy)I think there needs to be a balance in between. The new combat in Unity is boring. You just need smoke bombs and berserk darts; the old combat from 3 and 4 was boring, you only needed parry. I do agree with the OP that some of the combat from 2 and brotherhood was pretty good. Average weak enemies should be easy to kill while faster or stronger enemies should be harder to deal with.

Heavy armor enemies from 2 could be a pain if all you do is parry, and fast enemies from 2 would parry a lot of your fast attacks, so you had to get behind them or interrupt. I liked the older stuff better as far as combat goes. Also, I am all for being a stealthy assassin, but stealth needs to work better. In its current form, it is not great.

All in all, the series has changed a lot over time, but Unity, from micro-transactions, to a wonky multiplayer, and changed combat did seem like a step in the wrong direction. Also the story was kinda Meh. I didn't really care for Arno. And the single save file, totally stupid. Gear being locked behind restrictions was a bad move as well. That being said, Unity did the Paris stories, which I loved, some better options for gear, and a small step in the right direction with skill points to setup a character to a play style. So not totally bad.

My (personal) opinion was that more was wrong than right in Unity compared to all the other games in the series. But that's just me and my opinion counts for little. After all was said and done I will never buy another game from this series until it's been out for a bit and had some solid reviews. I learned from this one.

strigoi1958
06-10-2015, 09:59 PM
But musket shots would kill with just one shot because the soft lead ball would flatten... I guess like a Dum dum (I think) so to be shot and not die is not realistic. plus even they had a possibility of passing through one body into the person holding the human shield at such short range so rolling or human shield to avoid being shot are both as believable as we choose. :D

I like all AC games even AC2 which drove me crazy with the timed levers... and I have enjoyed all the combat styles.

Unity for me is a bit more realistic because you cannot jump into a group of 20 guys and expect to survive... they don't wait their turn to stab you they are all hacking away if you turn your back to fight a different guy. the mechanics were different and some don't like the camera angles but as I said I just tried to adapt... when we are great at something and then it changes and becomes alien or more difficult, it is natural to want to go back to how it was...

https://youtu.be/vFfFdjELyLE

So for me, using strategy of picking off the snipers then the lone guards then sneaking through was great...

Micro transactions only belong in free games.. once I buy a game I don't want to pay-to-play but I think they were "time savers" and I don't want that I want value for money... Unity cost me 25 and I got over 500 hours from the game....5p per hour (5 cents) ... if only all entertainment was that cheap... 8p/ cents to watch a movie at the cinema ;)

Multiplayer had hiccups but it was a new experience to me... people were really kind and took time to show me around and the best and easiest ways to achieve things... I adapted their advice and made it work for me...

Single save ... well I would like 3 but I found saving the folder and renaming it worked ok but it would have been nice if it was already there to save me doing it.

Story (just my opinion) was possibly cut short to meet the deadline. Some gear or achievements have been locked before... as I have ever played online before Unity it was impossible for me to get 100% achievements because some would always be in multiplayer so I have always wanted 100% to be achievable in the campaign.... Ironically... Syndicate will give me my wish but now I have met some really awesome people online and will kinda miss them :(.

As for your opinion... it carries more weight than you think... we're all the same here. Gamers who love AC games... and that makes your opinion very valid here. I'll listen to anyone about AC games. :D

ACE7492
06-10-2015, 10:38 PM
LOL at that video. I was entertained.

I think if you put 100 hours into a game like this you can figure out what clearly works for combat or stealth. I also have liked almost everything in the series history of all the games. I guess my biggest gripe would have to be that the game was not ready to be released when it was and that more than anything made a terrible, unforgettable, and almost unforgiveable, lasting impression.

strigoi1958
06-11-2015, 11:56 AM
LOL at that video. I was entertained.

I think if you put 100 hours into a game like this you can figure out what clearly works for combat or stealth. I also have liked almost everything in the series history of all the games. I guess my biggest gripe would have to be that the game was not ready to be released when it was and that more than anything made a terrible, unforgettable, and almost unforgiveable, lasting impression.

Yes, unfortunately the release deadline may have cost Unity the awards that it really deserves. :(

The NCP's are awesome to watch, the city is stunning especially the huge difference between the wealthy homes and the poorest areas... the sounds like running across different places, like roofs, streets and metal, the ability to enter buildings through lots of ways without needing an animation or loading screen and the fact that it is so huge and beautiful graphics... these were probably overlooked because fans were upset.

TBH I didn't mind, I just wanted to play and I can overlook teething problems and try to see the big picture... (maybe age has made me more accepting ;)) but I was very happy but Ubi still gave me Dead Kings FREE which was very good, I really liked DK.

Unity was (for me) a sign of what is to come... That is why I'm sure Syndicate will be awesome... Unity has given it a good foundation, no-one is working on a multiplayer section so all involved are solely working on the game.... and it has a year after Unity's release to be perfect.

No AAA title releases in a perfect state so I expect a patch or 2 within a month but I am happy with that... I would not be happy without AC :D