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HeibgesU999
05-12-2004, 11:21 PM
Hitler didn't learn from Napoleon. Both their endeavors in Russia ended in disaster.

of all the massive problems with sh2, the non-dynamic was the one that really took the fun out of the game. what will sh3 learn from the mistakes of sh2?

HeibgesU999
05-12-2004, 11:21 PM
Hitler didn't learn from Napoleon. Both their endeavors in Russia ended in disaster.

of all the massive problems with sh2, the non-dynamic was the one that really took the fun out of the game. what will sh3 learn from the mistakes of sh2?

Drebbel
05-13-2004, 12:00 AM
Subsim is visiting the E3 expo and has played SHIII. Read some Neal's comments on the campaign system at the link below:

http://www.subsim.com/2004e3_ssr.html


Drebbel

The Submarines of the Royal Netherlands Navy 1906 - 2004
http://www.DutchSubmarines.com/
We have a NEW FORUM:
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/phpbb2/
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Kejotikk
05-13-2004, 05:20 AM
Well judging by the report from E3 they've learned absolutely nothing.

Drebbel
05-13-2004, 05:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kejotikk:
Well judging by the report from E3 they've learned absolutely nothing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah I am really disappointed as well. Seems there will be no dynamic campaign at all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


Drebbel

The Submarines of the Royal Netherlands Navy 1906 - 2004
http://www.DutchSubmarines.com/
We have a NEW FORUM:
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/phpbb2/
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/hosting/images/sig/drebbel/kmoorlwp.gif

CB..
05-13-2004, 06:11 AM
yes i agree it's actually quite depressing..
the sub interiors are stunning couldnt ask for more ..the animated 3d crew fantastic..going to be very immersive...at least untill the limitations of the campaign engine start to bite...why do they do this stuff? i swear it's built in life span for a game..no doubt it will be worth buying...but i cant help thinking that folks will be a lot slower to uninstall SH2 than they might have been ...what is so scary about dynamic campaigns that they fudge the issue and run from inclusion....is it really a sign of the times?? short attention spans et al?
i don't get it..have i got it right that at the start of each mission yu dont even have control of the sub untill yu reach the patrol zone?...unless yu get one of the "dynamic" encounters" along the way yur just a line on the map nothing more....so it's actually less sim like than the SH2 campaign engine..no freedom of movement ...no options..just tramlines untill yur at the patrol zone.. and tramlines back home im assuming..all historical accuracy arguments aside it's taking the choices away from the player...i dont get it...must be all those E numbers in the burgers or something.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif

arzaal
05-13-2004, 06:13 AM
What exactly do you call a dynamic campaign? From what I unerstood, the next mission will depend on the choice you made and how you performed. Isn't that the very definition of a dynamic campaign? I don't understand why you guys are so worried about this.
The campaign will be dynamic, definitely http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

CDragon
05-13-2004, 06:50 AM
Hmmm. Perhaps instead of using the word DYNAMIC to describe the style of campaigning that sub simmers seem to want, I suggest using the word OPEN. My guess is that while the SH3 campaign may be mission-based branching, the missions will reflect the choice of campaign branch the player chooses to follow, and that missions from campaign to campaign will be different. Which is Dynamic. An Open campaign would be one where you could just sail out of port and go where you like, at whatever time compression your comfortable with, with the hope of encountering targets along the way.

arzaal
05-13-2004, 08:46 AM
This I find not realistic. Will you as a sub commander just leave the pier and explain D├┬Ânitz that you're going to wander on the vast ocean without objective? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif
No really. Come on.

ParaB
05-13-2004, 08:54 AM
Since so many see the AOD campaign as the holy grail of subsims, let met say that it was unrealistic, too.

I never got reprimanded when I left my designated patrol area and went off hunting on my own. Not quite like the U-Bootwaffe conducted their operations.

Looks like there will be some dynamic/random elements in the SH3 campaign after all. Not fully random, but IMO that was pretty clear since we got the first hint about "a mixture of scripted and dynamic campaign".

What I don't like so far is the inability to go to the bridge during the "map tavel". That sucks. Hope they change it.

xwhitemousex
05-13-2004, 09:03 AM
Dynamic campaign...

Look at Falcon 4.0's campaigns.

The game keeps running, there are aircrafts, troops, ships on the move all the time with different objectives.

Missions keep popping in, completely random.

One mission might be SAM hunting, another is Interception, a third is Air strike on ground troops. And there are several missions, several different ones, and always randomly generated depending on how the overall campaign is going.

If the enemy troops are advancing, you get more Air-ground strike missions than intercept/patrol missions.

Its Dynamic, meaning it always changes.

SH2 has a non-dynamic campaign, meaning the mission is ALWAYS the same everytime you play it. The target convoys are always at the same spot, moving the same direction, always.

Also in Falcon 4.0, you could intercept enemy fighters even if you are on a bombing run. You could stay in contact with the AWACS and always know where the enemy was, and if you wanted to, you could divert and engage.

It wasnt all a big, wide, open nothing if you diverted from your course. Heck, you could fly deep into enemy territory and get your wings blown off and get chased down by multiple enemy patrols.

Of course you had a mission to complete, but, you have a mission to do in SH3 too, patrolling a certain grid for instance, but if you call for contact reports and a large convoy is near you in another grid, you should have the choices to intercept it, or at least be able to radio if you can/should intercept it.

It's all about randomness, cause people like fresh new missions and new challenges... not the same old missions over and over... it really limits the lifetime of the game that way.

Branching campaigns were used back in the early 90's in games such as Dune 2, where you had 1-3 provinces to attack after each mission.

Plz, we should be somewhere else now 10 years later and in the fancy 2000+

Dynamic... else the game loses about half of its glory, no matter how good graphics and crew management is... &gt;.&lt;

CDragon
05-13-2004, 09:28 AM
What is missing in the description of the "branching" campaign is how dynamic the "branching" points are. Do the branching points occur in the same place every time you play, or do they occur in different places, depending on how you've played so far. Do the branches offered reflect the player's performance, or are they scripted and unalterable?

So, for instance, say its 1939 and your first command is a Type II. One of the campaign "branching" points might be a transfer to a different type, say a choice between a Type VII and a Type IX, both choices opening up new patrol areas and opportunities, given their longer range than the Type II. Do you reach this branching point this way every time:

MISSION 1 -&gt; MISSION 2 -&gt; MISSION 3 -&gt; BRANCH

3 missions than the branch. Or do you reach the branch sooner if you prove yourself able, and later if you prove yourself unable:

(Successful, aggressive commander):

MISSION 1 -&gt; MISSION 2 -&gt; BRANCH

(Lazy, unlucky commander):

MISSION 1 -&gt; MISSION 2 -&gt; MISSION 3 -&gt; MISSION 4 -&gt; MISSION 5 -&gt; BRANCH

And perhaps in the case of the lazy, unlucky commander, the branch is a choice between shore duties http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

misha1967
05-13-2004, 11:43 AM
But don't you see? We'll have mip-mapped seagulls and fantastically rendered water film on the scope!!!

Another piece of overhyped, prettified ****e headed for the bargain bin.

I should've known better than to get my hopes up yet again.

Oh well.

*shrug*

DonoDaCabeca
05-13-2004, 02:51 PM
The only thing I like is to be suprised about what will be coming. I start a mission, then I become incredible unlucky to find no ships, ask for new instructions and go to new area (again nothing). Then go back to harbor in a self-difined path (and find a convoy!).
Don't care to follow missions or to make a chose out 3, just don't make it predictable.
SH2 is the worse game I ever buy (only have play 6 missions)

sorry for the bad english guys...

CB..
05-13-2004, 04:55 PM
i have the sense of impending doom...

in that once the initial fun factor of SH3 has worn of a little (it will no doubt be emmense fun for a month or two) after that i can't help but think that SH2 will emmerge as being the superior sim simply because it's campaign engine allows the player to explore his/her own interpretation of the mission instructions in an independant way that is unique to each player...no matter what folks say about SH2..(including me lol!) it is an emmensely complex and flexible simulation hampered by some really stupid and insanely basic glitches..(ie the save game issue)......and SH3 may well end up making it look a whole lot better looking back than it ever was while it was the current release version.. they know exactly what they are doing...

Drym
05-13-2004, 06:03 PM
I'm concerned as well.

If all of the missions are canned it will likely spoil it for me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif On the other hand, if the missions themselves, aside from the "historical" ones, are random in nature (starting positions, sea states, types and numbers of encounters, etc.) then I might be able to live with it.

I wonder if one can import user-made/custom missions into the campaign. Or better yet, custom campaigns. This would be a boon as well.

Heracles87
05-13-2004, 06:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by misha1967:
But don't you see? We'll have mip-mapped seagulls and fantastically rendered water film on the scope!!!

Another piece of overhyped, prettified ****e headed for the bargain bin.

I should've known better than to get my hopes up yet again.

Oh well.

*shrug*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sadly, I agree with you. I'll wait the 6 months till SHIII is in the 9.99 and under bin at the local retailer. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif