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monsieurdavid
04-07-2004, 11:03 AM
Several discussions have sprung up in various topics about "what makes a Myst game Myst", and "is URU really Myst". (I say the simplest explanation is that Myst is "historical" and URU is "now", so there IS a difference, but let's not get into that.) The first two games were "slideshows", but that's where the comparison stops. The Miller brothers are on record as saying Myst would have looked like Riven if they'd had the resources "back when". Exile added the spherical node aspect of being able to look straight up, straight down, and 360 degrees around, but it was still a slideshow. In the same way that we react to motion picture film in a different way than we do to videotape (film says "fiction/fantasy", video says "reality"), I think Myst games require the slideshow presentation to put you in the right dimension. Render-on-the-fly says to your subconscious "pretty soon I'm going to have to shoot something". That's my big complaint with URU. I do hope that Revelation is pre-rendered. (Or it's not Myst ;-)

monsieurdavid
04-07-2004, 11:03 AM
Several discussions have sprung up in various topics about "what makes a Myst game Myst", and "is URU really Myst". (I say the simplest explanation is that Myst is "historical" and URU is "now", so there IS a difference, but let's not get into that.) The first two games were "slideshows", but that's where the comparison stops. The Miller brothers are on record as saying Myst would have looked like Riven if they'd had the resources "back when". Exile added the spherical node aspect of being able to look straight up, straight down, and 360 degrees around, but it was still a slideshow. In the same way that we react to motion picture film in a different way than we do to videotape (film says "fiction/fantasy", video says "reality"), I think Myst games require the slideshow presentation to put you in the right dimension. Render-on-the-fly says to your subconscious "pretty soon I'm going to have to shoot something". That's my big complaint with URU. I do hope that Revelation is pre-rendered. (Or it's not Myst ;-)

neoc7
04-07-2004, 11:16 AM
Judging from the screen shots of Revelation, I'm almost sure that it is pre-rendered.

Naquiel
04-07-2004, 11:21 AM
Well it would depend on what they can do with the tech of todays programming. The one thing they can do is make the game with prerendering like in excile with some improvements with a sur fire way of keeping with tradition. Or they could try to go a step further and go the route of a 3d world.

In a 3d world there is still some hurddles to jump over to keep with the ture wonderful graphics we are use to, but they might be able to do it this time if planed out well and if they know all the tricks to do it.

But i think there going the route of prerendering for the image quality and mystique.

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Jnathus
04-07-2004, 12:11 PM
I agree with Naquiel. If those scenes are indeed from the game, the graphics show very little in the wya of polygonal (is that a word) curves, in that the curves of the buildings and rails are perfectly rounded. That would seem a sign of pre-rendering. I'm already intching to see what's inside that pagoda in the distance . . . so I think I'll take it either way. I liked Myst III even though Cyan didn't do it. The only thing I could fault it for, is that it was a bit too "Myst formulaic" (with one beautiful hub world with links to other worlds and the other worlds all link you directly back to the 'hub'). I'm wondering how formulaic or original Myst IV will be. Won't stop me from buying it though.

Alahmnat
04-07-2004, 02:53 PM
It might just be because I have no taste for FPS games anymore (too complicated, way too twitchy for me to play these days... Dark Forces 1 was the last one I ever actually played, believe it or not...), but realtime does not automatically indicate to my subconscious that something needs to be shot at http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif.

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mszv
04-07-2004, 03:05 PM
Hi,
I think the technology has absolutely nothing to do with a game in the Myst series. The original Myst used prerendered images because that was the technology available when they did it. I think the desire to force game developers to use older technology is ill advised. That doesn't mean they have to move to 3D technology (though I love 3D!) but they should use the newest, best, most state of the art tools to create a spectacular game with a spectacular world. Oh yeah - I also want to the world to be alive - I want things to move and change. Weather anyone?

I thought that Myst Revelation was a 2D game (pre-rendered), like Syberia I and 2, and Myst, Riven and Exile. I suspect it's not completely 2D - don't all high-end games have some other stuff thrown in?

Uru is 3D and it's amazingly beautiful, with lots of detail. As the technology improves, I'm sure there will be more and more detail in 3D games. Uru seems completely "Myst like" to me, a beautiful evocative world, all ready to explore. For all that, Myst Revelation looks absolutely spectacular, and I can't wait to explore it - well, as much as I will be able to, if it's 2D. I intend to go over every bit of that world.

There aren't a lot of 3D adventure games, but I think it's because there aren't a lot of high-end, high-technology adventure games, niche market and all. Broken Sword III and Mysterious Journey II are 3D games. I have both of them, but have not played them, yet.

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Zymmin
04-07-2004, 03:52 PM
I'm in the "give me pre-rendered" category. I like Uru and I like Exile, but I think that the graphics in Exile were just fantastic and I really liked the embedded video clips too. It gave it more realism to me than Yeesha's and Zandi. I feel like I'm there.

Judging from the video I would say that they used prerendered, but it was not old technology. From the detail, even so small, it looked like they really took the technology up another notch.

Zymmin (akirl > Greg)

monsieurdavid
04-07-2004, 05:38 PM
--quote-- I think the technology has absolutely nothing to do with a game in the Myst series --unquote--
I regard using pre-rendered images as a style choice, rather than being shackled to old technology. Let's don't go back to Myst Island, the developers of Exile certainly didn't. On the other hand, the avatars in URU look like mannequins and move like robots, and I think it could be argued that this works against a completely believable, immersive environment. When I played Riven, I was THERE. What can I say?

Maxine MagicFox
04-07-2004, 08:15 PM
^_^ Ok, I'm going to definitely take it from the posts that pre-rendered is definitely Myst 3 all-round graphic 1 person style. (In another topic I mentioned that I was very clueless about what "pre-rendered" vs "real-time" meant.)

Judging from the fact that there's a movable flash on the main site, and that the shots already feel very "Myst 3" engine-like, I'm going to say, that it's pretty hard to assume that it's going with the Uru feeling. I have not played Uru (I'm repeating myself but I don't know how frequent people will read my posts in other topics LOL) and one of the reasons is the fact that real-time does NOT fit the Myst style. I loved the idea that "I'm" seeing things as if I were standing there, and not watching an avatar on the screen. The Myst storyline is suppose to have a very personal real feeling. Furthermore, it's far more an original style.

Besides, let's think about this: my favorite "video" in all of the games is in Myst 3 when you are sealed inside a gigantic glass-ball and taken down a roller-coaster ride. How the heck are we going to have moments like that if they switch to that rediculous avatar style.

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AFGNCAAP
04-07-2004, 08:28 PM
Maxine,

Pre-rendered means that the people who make the game already have made the screens that you see and are playing it back like a slideshow to you, like in Myst, Riven and Exile.

URU is different where all the graphics that you see on the screen are created by your computer. The developers give you a disc that tells your computer how to draw what you see.

On another note, I am just replaying Exile and that "fish eye" effect that you get with the 360 panning is quite annoying and the graphics are a little cartoony in places. Hope Ubi has more "Cyan-like" standards than Presto did.

Jephomat
04-07-2004, 08:31 PM
I read alot of people refer to pre-rendering as "old technology"
That basically using it is living in the dark ages like it's been surpassed by realtime 3d.
Thats just not the case. Yes it's been around longer but it has also advanced and will continue to do so.
Go and watch Josh Staub's intro to his pre-rendered short film "the Mantis parable" that i put a link to in the Poll thread and tell me thats old technology.
How about many of the kids 3D movies today? They're not done in realtime.

Today's realtime engines coupled with new cards can do some fancy tricks. But they're still a long way away. IMHO

Take the glass ball rollercoaster ride in Myst3 for example. I'm sure everyone knows it well.
Awesome stuff. No way any realtime engine could do anything even remotely close to that.

Deledrius
04-07-2004, 08:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jephomat:
Take the glass ball rollercoaster ride in Myst3 for example. I'm sure everyone knows it well.
Awesome stuff. No way any realtime engine could do anything even remotely close to that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Upon what evidence do you base this assertion?

Jephomat
04-07-2004, 09:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Upon what evidence do you base this assertion? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The fact that no modern day engine can draw that amount of polygons per second.

The best engines can still only do around 20,000 at a good framerate.

The scene in question has millions of polygons.

mszv
04-07-2004, 11:40 PM
Well - it's good we all have our different opinions, isn't it?

On 3D not being in the Myst style - what about realMyst, as well as Uru? The last games developed by Cyan (one a remake of Myst) were 3D games. Exile was developed by Presto studios (Cyan licensed the rights to Presto) and Myst Revelation (Myst IV) is being developed by Ubisoft. So, the company that created Myst hasn't done a 2D, prerendered image game in years, not since Riven. Just a thought.

On 3D games, they can be in 1st person. There's no requirement for there to be an avatar in a 3D game. On having animated characters in a 3D game, instead of actors seen in full motion video, the cool thing is that, in a 3D game, you can often walk around them, and see them from different angles, just like being there. Sure, it's animation, but it's a different experience. I think the comparison between 3D and 2D pre-rendered images also works better when you play the games. The aliveness (is that a word?) of a 3D world can make you forget about how there is slightly less definition, though Uru is packed with high-definition images.

For me, it's not the 2D - 3D thing per se, but the fact that there is another game in the Myst game series. I think that's the really swell thing. Though I am starting to prefer 3D (I'm sure you aren't surprised, given my comments), I'll happily be playing Myst Revelation - another great game in the series, and a good looking one too. I like how Myst Revation looks (though I'd prefer 3D) but what I'm intrigued by is the story, and what looks like new worlds to explore. I'm a sucker for new worlds to explore!

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Regards,
mszv - play as amarez

Put that down, you are not in a game, this is my life!

Maxine MagicFox
04-07-2004, 11:41 PM
ok... then from the sound of it, real time borders on being just as good as pre-rendered, however, stands the obvious potential of needing high speed computers and creating a lag on computers.

What does this mean for Maxine... Uru probably would be such a stress on her computer that it would crash = anger, frustration, and outrage towards the creators at being so stupid as to create a game that not everyone can enjoy to its fullest when there was another system just as good that didn't require so much.

^_^ But, I've never played Uru so I should probably shut up. However - please remember us little folk whose computers are about five years old and horribly outdated and can barely afford the cost of games let alone a higher quality computer.

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Phen1
04-08-2004, 06:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mszv:
Well - it's good we all have our different opinions, isn't it?

...the cool thing is that, in a 3D game, you can often walk around them, and see them from different angles, just like being there. Sure, it's animation, but it's a different experience.

For me, it's not the 2D - 3D thing per se, but the fact that there is another game in the Myst game series. I think that's the really swell thing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all, I agree that it is healthy to have different opinions, but you guys are driving me berserk! Ok, about the second part of your post: it isn't the same. Although it is kind of cool to be able to move around the characters as their talking, that factor is in my opinion completely reversed by the fact that you will never feel as if they are actually talking to you! They look so fake in URU that I feel like I'm playing a computer game! I am playing a computer game, I know, but the other myst games made me feel like I was really there, which was really cool!

Thirdly, I agree that it "swell" just because it is another Myst game, but the 2D-3D aspect of it is, in essence, EVERYTHING!!! I couldn't stand URU, it made me so mad that they did it in 3d. You're not there. It looks fake. You look at yourself from the outside. For me, I would rather have a Myst game with beautiful worlds and awful puzzles, then an "URU-game" (which for me isn't a Myst game) with outstanding puzzles. The reason I love Myst is because I'm really there.

Thanx for listening to my awful, never-ending ramblings. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~~PHEN~~
Sorry, guys, I lost my cheeseburger smiley. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
This place is so weird now... wow. Wow. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jnathus
04-09-2004, 03:17 PM
There is a point that many don't know or have forgotten. Myst III: Exile was originally going to be full-time 3D. The developers announced on their teaser site (showing the progress of the development) that the reason they didn't do that is because the system specifications necessary to run it would eliminate too many people who didn't run high end systems at that time.

I still remember the first teaser trailer which shows you progressing down the stairs in J'nanin.

_ Paula _
04-09-2004, 03:30 PM
Well, I have to say that I enjoyed both the Myst games and Uru. Uru was not meant to be like the Myst games and it wasn't. I thoroughly enjoyed it and I usually stayed in 3rd person. I just liked the perspective and it didn't ruin the immersion experience for me either. Actually, I now prefer 3rd person as I have a disability and 3rd person movement doesn't trigger nausea and dizzyness that 1st person does.

I also liked the fact that I could go just about anywhere I wanted to go in Uru...I wasn't confined to point and click. True, there are still some areas in Uru that aren't accessible, but you have a great deal more freedom than in the Myst games.

It wouldn't bother me at all if Myst Revelation was in 3D and offered 3rd person view.

Paula (Pa'lua in Cavern)

frankenscarf
04-09-2004, 05:40 PM
I just have to jump in here and say that realMyst beats Myst and Myst Masterpiece hands down. I think anyone who's played both would agree. Free-motion, change of day/night, weather, etc... It made it more, well... real.

Once technology advances, I think it would be great to see a realRiven or realExile. But it will probably be at least a decade or so. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

[edit] My point is I'm willing to experience Revelations as pre-rendered because that's what will make it most real, due to tech. restraints.

Alahmnat
04-09-2004, 06:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jnathus:
I still remember the first teaser trailer which shows you progressing down the stairs in J'nanin.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That was a pre-rendered animation much like the rest of the "rides" in Exile, back when they hadn't quite decided to leave out the animated transitions between nodes (probably one of the most annoying "features" ever invented, IMNSHO). While they did debate using realtime verus pre-rendered, they decided on pre-rendering because 1) it "fit" with the previous two games, and 2) it had a wider market because mre systems could run it. That decision was made before any content creation was done (else it would have wasted a lot of time in the end).

I'll be frank and say I'm rather irked by how many people didn't like Uru "because it wasn't like Myst", when it was never supposed to be like Myst. I fear Cyan pigeon-holed themselves into making "Myst games" after Riven was released, and now nothing they do will ever really be "as good" because it's "not Myst" (or Riven, if you prefer).

I personally love Uru because I wasn't expecting yet another Myst game, and because, to me, what it lacks in polygon depth, it makes up in life. Walk through Kadish, and listen to the sounds drift around you as you stroll. Watch the leaves drift gently downard through the shafts of sunlight streaming through the canopy of trees. Notice the wet footprints you leave behind after you walk through a puddle. Stand in Eder Kemo and watch a storm roll through. All of that, for me, made the Ages even more real than those in Myst, Riven, and Exile, and I have yet to encounter a game whose graphics are as realistic as Uru's. The objects and landscape in Uru have weight... "presence", if you will. They look like they're actually made from stone, or mushrooms, or metal, or wind-worn rock. I've never seen a realtime environment that has such a realistic feel.

Of course, I'm not one to judge my experience with a game solely on how many texture errors I can find (and there are plenty in Uru, and Riven as well... I dare you to re-play Riven without finding at least one instance of horrific texture tiling). There's mesh errors in Uru, yes, but they exist in Riven as well, and I'm sure if I was feeling nit-picky enough, I could find a few in Exile as well (most notably - and this is more of a lapse in detail than a true "mesh error", none of the doors in Exile have hinges to swing on or latches to hold the doors closed, despite the presence of handles).

My point is that the engine doesn't make or break the game. It's what you do with that engine that truly decides if the game is actually any good. On that note, I'm willing to accept that many people just don't like Uru becaue they didn't like the story. That's fine. To dislike realtime games because Uru had a few poor camera angles and wonky controls (I swear, I'm the only person in the world besides Rand who has no problems driving my avatar with a mouse in 3rd person...), though, is a rather extreme leap to make. To dislike realtime games because you didn't like Uru's story is an even larger leap (one whose logic I fail to comprehend, I might add). Not all realtime games are structured the same way as Uru with regard to camera controls, general user interface, or more obviously, visual style and storyline.

If done well, I would have no problem with having a new realtime Myst game, just as I have no problem with having a new pre-rendered Myst game. The key is that it be done well. If that isn't acheived (and obviously, what counts as being an acomplishment in that area is up to personal preference http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif), it doesn't really matter what format your game is in, it's going to be horrible. I've played some pretty horridly done pre-rendered games in my time (foremost in my mind being Lighthouse, but also for story reasons... Reah and Schizm were simply compression scheme failures... over-compressed pre-rendered images = bad when you can't read the keyboard necessary for solving a puzzle http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif), so pre-rendering is not the final solution to crappy game graphics, nor is realtime a foregone conclusion that the graphics will be bad (though if you go in trying to count polygons you're going to be disappointed, face it). Though I think perhaps the biggest bonus of realtime is that you don't risk as many "state" errors, with levers being shown in the wrong position after you walk away from them, or objects suddenly appearing/disappearing from view before/during/after an animation/frame change (Exile is chock full of these, again most notably in Amateria). All you have to deal with in realtime is re-loading the proper states whenever a person re-enters that Age.

Also, just for the record, there are over 40,000 polygons in the Channelwood Age in realMYST, and the engine used in Uru is a revision level above the engine used for realMYST. Amateria's roller coaster ride would probably have been perfectly do-able in Uru. Granted the meshes for the surrounding areas would have to be simpler, but since Amateria is 90% angular objects anyway, you're not losing much (and Amateria's central pagoda roof has a few harsh polygon angles in it even in Exile...). You'd also lose the glitzy camera glare when facing the sun.

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Naquiel
04-09-2004, 07:15 PM
To me, I like all the Myst game for what they are and what they offered. Each had there different story and things to figure out. Take Myst 3 for example, from being made by another company i think it turned out well and different. It still had the mystery and wonder of the past myst games, but was different based on the character you had to deal with. I even feel that the 4th Myst game will be different than the others to because we are going to deal with another situation we havent seen in the past games.

Uru was fun and i hope there is many xpacks to continue the adventure down in the cavern. I like that i get to play like a fellow resercher or an adventurer retuning to a place that was calling to me. Yes some of the puzzles i am use to playing with from past Myst games are not as abundent in Uru, but i am getting more information and seeing more things about the D'ni ppl that we didnt get from the other games.

So, I tend to take every game as a seperate experiance, and have fun solving all the little puzzles and playing with alot of dohickies and dodads.

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Phen1
04-10-2004, 04:43 AM
Um... excuse me? You think you can just get away with that? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

You can't just take both sides! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif C'mon, if it were up to you, what would you choose?

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

Timeposter
04-10-2004, 06:27 AM
I sort of agree, each game brings it's own uniqueness to the field. I have just finished myst and Riven with my kids, and we have just started Exile. They are all different and have different feels when playing (getting used to the 3d nodes in exile makes me dizzy sometimes :0). Uru is beautiful, and an entirely different game to me, but still apart of the same general story.

I am glad for the thousands that could not play URU because of computer specs. that Revelation will have lower specs and be available for Mac. I have alote of friends that missed out on the latest Myst game and now they have something to look forward to. For that reason alone I am glad for pre-rendering.

Scythephantasm
04-10-2004, 09:11 PM
I would just like to add that the only problem that I had with the 360 in Exile was that I took away from the realism of the shots. The first movie of Cathrine was all liney and not-good. I hope it's better in IV.
(but really, that's it. That's my only problem)

Alahmnat
04-10-2004, 09:52 PM
Yeah, Exile's live-action footage wasn't filmed at nearly enough resolution, so quality issues ensued when they got the footage back to their studio.

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Srikandi
04-10-2004, 11:41 PM
I have to say I find it puzzling how people say they "feel like they're really there" in the prerendered games, when you can't choose where you go... I definitely agree that first person is superior though. My choice is full-3D, first person. But I'll take what I can get. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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Tweek
04-12-2004, 04:59 AM
I'll go for the pre-rendered myself.
I think exile was fantastic despite what people think of it..and revelations looks just as good and will be better.

Tweek

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FRANK1119
04-12-2004, 09:55 AM
I've played Myst, Riven, Exile and Uru. For me personally it's not whether the game is pre-rendered or 3d. What I disliked about Uru is that it was more physical in the way that to get things done one need to use its muscles. But I've done a little counting and the number of puzzels are more than in Riven. But somehow it feels like Myst, Riven and Exile are more a challenge to your brains (that is, for me).

In a pre-rendered game, there are less opportunities to do jumping and so on.

Stupid enough: The only world in Uru that was only 'normal' puzzles, Kadesh, I couldn't finish on my own...

Phen1
04-12-2004, 05:10 PM
Didn't Riven only have like two real puzzles? All the rest was one big puzzle. That was why it seemed so real. The point wasn't to solve the puzzles, it was to figure out what was happening. It was so realistic, because you just didn't go to puzzle after puzzle, it was like what would happen in real life if you landed on a strange world. You had to figure out what was going on and how to do something about it.

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

CAGrayWolf
04-12-2004, 05:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phen1:
Didn't Riven only have like two real puzzles? All the rest was one big puzzle. That was why it seemed so real. The point wasn't to solve the puzzles, it was to figure out what was happening. It was so realistic, because you just didn't go to puzzle after puzzle, it was like what would happen in real life if you landed on a strange world. You had to figure out what was going on and how to do something about it.

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow! ... So well and perfectly said ... this is what I always felt about the series and specifically Riven ... for Riven was not just a game ... it was (and still is) an adventure ... and this is what made it so special. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Perhaps the ending has not yet been written
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Almlys
04-12-2004, 06:45 PM
I'm for pre-rendered.

-- More graphics quality, with less hardware requirements.
-- And I like to see real human actors! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~Almlys

Scythephantasm
04-12-2004, 07:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CAGrayWolf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phen1:
Didn't Riven only have like two real puzzles? All the rest was one big puzzle. That was why it seemed so real. The point wasn't to solve the puzzles, it was to figure out what was happening. It was so realistic, because you just didn't go to puzzle after puzzle, it was like what would happen in real life if you landed on a strange world. You had to figure out what was going on and how to do something about it.

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow! ... So well and perfectly said ... this is what I always felt about the series and specifically Riven ... for Riven was not just a game ... it was (and still is) an adventure ... and this is what made it so special. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

_Perhaps the ending has not yet been written_
http://www.greetersguild.com/home.html<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IS THAT IT?!?!?!?!?! IS THAT WHAT IT IS? WHY I KEEP GOING BACK TO RIVEN OVER AND OVER AFTER I'VE BEATEN IT A MILLION TIMES!? Wow. Now it all seems so clear. Riven is my absolute favourite, and I never know why (I'm sure that there's more to it than that, but this is really deep http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)

Thanks for that! My mind is now 10% less fuzzy!

Phen1
04-12-2004, 09:14 PM
Wow. I didn't know that post would cause any reaction at all! To add to it: That's the reason many people said Exile wasn't as good even though it had superior graphics. The problem was, it was a bunch of puzzles that didn't really fit any storyline. Take Amateria, Saavedro was just trying to annoy you, so he had you do random puzzles to get the thing to work, but really there was no point to each puzzle except that it advanced the storyline when solved. The two (three?) puzzles in Riven are combination locks I think, and so they actually fit with the world. The Exile puzzles are just puzzles. That's the biggets problem. Let's hope that Ubi can see this in their creation of Myst 4.

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

FRANK1119
04-13-2004, 04:57 AM
To be honest: I like Exile for the graphics, but: Yes, I agree: Riven is marvelous, because of the (two) puzzles, the story and the graphics still very good.

My statement was more about that pre-rendered can force the game-developers to create puzzles like in Riven than puzzles in the way there are in Uru (more physical)

Phen1
04-13-2004, 05:45 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/353.gif
Just to clarify, there are really three puzzles:
1. The dome/marble puzzle
2. The animal stone puzzle
3. The Catherine combination-lock puzzle
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Ok, I'm cool.

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

monsieurdavid
04-14-2004, 09:42 AM
This topic really got off and running -- and nobody got testy ;-) A couple of things more: If the technology had been there, maybe Riven would have benefited from the 360-degree bubble-node design that Exile had. For me, the quasi-3D aspect of the 360-nodes really works (it actually works better for me than full 3D because of the pre-rendered quality). And lastly, I think generally speaking people's complaints about Exile really can be summed up by saying it was "Disney-Myst". I hope Revelation gets things back on track.

Phen1
04-14-2004, 08:37 PM
Wonderful analogy david! I never thought about it like that. Yeah, Disney Myst would just about describe some of it, the bird especially in Edanna. Yeah, that could have used improvement.

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

bayo69
04-15-2004, 02:30 AM
i just found this url and the info there its kind of interesting. something about the technology involved in myst 4

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.01/play.html?pg=1

Jnathus
04-15-2004, 08:13 PM
I noticed that over at www.justadventure.com (http://www.justadventure.com) there is or was a poll about which MYST game you like best. I of course voted for Riven, and low and behold, I was SURELY not alone. Riven is the game that started me into PC gaming, and it still looks really good today compared with much of the adventure genre crowd. I still wish they'd at least come out with an updated version with 32 bit graphics. It appears that there are more fans of Riven than just me . .. so it might be worthwhile. (Do you hear me Cyan . . Strike while the iron is still ate least lukewarm!)

Jnathus
04-15-2004, 08:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alahmnat:
That was a pre-rendered animation much like the rest of the "rides" in Exile, back when they hadn't quite decided to leave out the animated transitions between nodes<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I understand this, however, they originally said it was going to be 'realtime' like RealMYST, and that 'pre-rendered animation' was meant to represent what the game was going to be like. It may even have been a proof of concept piece that actually did function in real time like they were originally intent on making it.

Phen1
04-15-2004, 09:07 PM
Jnathus, I hear that the DVD version of Riven has much better picture quality...

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

Alahmnat
04-16-2004, 12:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jnathus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alahmnat:
That was a pre-rendered animation much like the rest of the "rides" in Exile, back when they hadn't quite decided to leave out the animated transitions between nodes<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I understand this, however, they originally said it was going to be 'realtime' like RealMYST, and that 'pre-rendered animation' was meant to represent what the game was going to be like. It may even have been a proof of concept piece that actually did function in real time like they were originally intent on making it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Um... by the time the E3 trailer was released, they had definitively settled on pre-rendering the game. The pan down the stairs, as well as a number of other shots from the E3 trailer, were rendered specifically for that trailer and were not going to be used in the game.

I do indeed remember them saying they had contemplated doing the game in realtime, BUT by the time they got to content creation, the realtime vs. pre-rendered debate had been finalized. As I said, to delay that decision until after material had been created would have been a waste of development time, and with the release date just 18 to 20 months after the game's conception, there is simply no time to make that kind of change to your product without drastically damaging its quality. They never once announced that the game would be made in realtime. In fact, it was kind of presented to the community as everything realMYST wasn't, and the low system requirements were one if the game's biggest selling points during initial marketing, versus realMYST's far less low-budget-PC-friendly specs.

Just FYI, J'nanin contains over 2 million polygons, and was built that way from day 1. There's no way the pan down the stairs - which has the same degree of quality as the game's images - was used as a realtime proof-of-concept animation.

----------
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D'niPedia Writers Ring (http://www.dpwr.net) (DPWR.NET)
Uru and Myst Forum Moderator / Community Assistant
Please note: I do not respond to Private Topics dealing with technical support or hint requests for the Myst series

Unknown-One
04-16-2004, 12:20 PM
we may be jumping to conclusions due to the trailer, what if they just prerendered the sceen for the trailer, but the real game will be 3D?

Jnathus
04-16-2004, 04:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phen1:
Jnathus, I hear that the DVD version of Riven has much better picture quality...

~~PHEN~~ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I own Riven DVD, however, the DVD reader is 16-bit, and hence won't work on Windows 2000 / XP (because both are 32-Bit specific). I could run it on a Windows 9x (Windows 95, 98, 98 SE or ME) platform, but I only run XP these days.

Jnathus
04-16-2004, 04:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alahmnat:
Um... by the time the E3 trailer was released, they had definitively settled on pre-rendering the game. The pan down the stairs, as well as a number of other shots from the E3 trailer, were rendered specifically for that trailer and were not going to be used in the game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know all the information you do about Exile (like the trailer's pre-rendered scenes not being intended for the game, or that they settled on pre-rendered long before I saw the trailer). I have no proof of my position, but I did read everything I could find on Myst III as soon as I saw that first trailer, and I was left with the impression that they intended to make Myst III in realtime 3D. Perhaps I didn't pay close enough attention to the wording, or the statements were worded badly . . . who knows? The site with all of its teaser content is long since gone.

Moving away from the touchy subject (me being wrong), I was upset to see that the music used in the E3 trailer didn't make it into the game. I guess I shouldn't be too disappointed, since movie trailers use the same technique all the time. I hope that the Myst series games NEVER do that to me again. It was a little gratifying to have the URU trailer music on the soundtrack.

Alahmnat
04-16-2004, 05:09 PM
Heh, no worries, Jnathus http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

If you want a copy of the E3 trailer music without the narration by Atrus, it's up for download from MYSTerium.ch here (http://mysterium.ch/exile/exile_info_e.html) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

----------
Guild of Archivists,
D'niPedia Writers Ring (http://www.dpwr.net) (DPWR.NET)
Uru and Myst Forum Moderator / Community Assistant
Please note: I do not respond to Private Topics dealing with technical support or hint requests for the Myst series

Lord Hydronium
04-16-2004, 06:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jnathus:
Moving away from the touchy subject (me being wrong), I was upset to see that the music used in the E3 trailer didn't make it into the game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It actually did, sort of. Listen to "Airship Chasm" - it's the same basic tune as the beginning of the trailer music, but in a different style.

Al, if you're still online, can you check your messages on MC?

misterzen
04-17-2004, 10:06 AM
Riven and Exile were Prerendered. That fine.... But one thing: In Riven the view angle was a wide angle so we could have a nice view of the environment in a glance. But in Exile it was a kind of 50 mm view.... If found it claustrophobic espacially inside buildings we had to turn all the time....Remember

Also if you see a lot of details but we are not able to touch anything because it is only an image it is annoying.....A lot of interactive details matters.

lavalle50
04-17-2004, 01:31 PM
Uru-- was the best-- hands down although i'm a big mist fan. Looking forward to Myst 4. Wish it was out today. I'm 50 and really enjoy adventure games.