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LieutenantRex
05-17-2015, 05:23 PM
Holy cow is this game bad. Perhaps that's a bit general an opening assessment of a game over a year old, but I started the pirate adventure immediately after devoting much time into AC3, and I am sorry to say that my previous thoughts about Black Flag were sullied by this playthrough.

There was nothing 'wrong' with the game; I experienced few to no bugs, the environments were beautiful, the guard A.I. far more consistent than a game before, and there was a clear aim, uninhibited by sideplots that went nowhere and characters who we saw once and never again. But something was wrong.

First off, I find the naval combat, in retrospect, far more inferior than it was in AC3. I don't know if it's just me, but the Aquila felt as if it had more weight than the Jackdaw. Waves actually felt like waves. There was a tense ambience aboard the Aquila, with the deck hands engaging in activity more frequently than the hands on the Jackdaw. The former's atmosphere was lively and exciting, the latter's merely engendered a sense of insipid manner. There were also destructible physics attached to the Aquila and its crew. You would see the damage a particularly arduous barrage of cannonfire left in your hull and on the deck of your ship. Cannons would be disabled, your crew would perish. None of this is present in Black Flag. While the effects may ostensibly promote a more explosive and hectic naval engagement (enhanced smoke, louder cannonfire), the evidence of this would be constricted to a few pieces of stray board and shrapnel on your main deck, resulting in a more disorderly appearance, but visually, you're fine. Just watch your health bar.

The story was lacklustre, and Edward doesn't feel like a character that is consistent enough to warrant the motivations he holds for himself and his loved ones. At several points in the game, I reflected on the numerous contradictions in his character, trying as best I could to elucidate. I couldn't.

I truly believe that AC3 was a better game,
simply because I returned to playing it, not feeling any disappointment that had infected my views of it on its initial release. The same cannot be said for Black Flag.

VestigialLlama4
05-17-2015, 05:40 PM
First off, I find the naval combat, in retrospect, far more interior than it was in AC3. I don't know if it's just me, but the Aquila felt as if it had more weight than in Black Flag. Waves actually felt like waves. There was a tense ambience aboard the Aquila, with the deck hands engaging in activity more frequently than the hands on the Jackdaw. The former's atmosphere was lively and exciting, the latter's merely engendered a sense of insipid manner. There was also destructible physics attached to the Aquila and its crew. You would see the damage a particularly arduous barrage of cannonfire left in your hull and on the deck of your ship. Cannons would be disabled, your crew would perish. None of this is present in Black Flag. While the effects may ostensibly promote a more explosive and hectic naval engagement (enhanced smoke, louder cannonfire), the evidence of this would be constricted to a few pieces of stray board and shrapnel on your main deck, resulting in a more disorderly appearance, but visually, you're fine. Just watch your health bar.

Interesting. Generally there hasn't been much comparison between the naval of AC3 and the naval of Black Flag. Black Flag simply has well, more naval than AC3.

I recently replayed AC3 and Black Flag myself and for me, Black Flag is visually a far less interesting game than AC3. Compare the jungles and land environments of Black Flag with the Frontier of AC3 and you'll see that Black Flag is kind of flat, the trees and foliage is very simplified whereas in AC3, nature really did look like nature and while trees could be climbed and all, they still looked like actual trees and not specially landscaped jungle gyms. This is of course justified because BLACK FLAG has open-world sailing and most of its screen is water, so obviously the sandbox for water took precedence over the land gameplay, which was a little more streamlined to accomodate the focus on sailing. Likewise AC3 had a strong powerful lighting that reflected North America whereas Black Flag had bright blues and greens that fits the setting but at times makes it look like a Carribean Postcard.

As for naval, I did not notice all the stuff you mention but I will next time. I generally found naval in AC3 kind of like a dry run and most of the missions are essentially tests for kinds of naval missions, there was a lot of stuff closer to the coast, and moving through rocks and the like, and you had to change sail speeds more often whereas in Black Flag you can go full sail most of the time in the game.


The story was lacklustre, and Edward doesn't feel like a character that is consistent enough to warrant the motivations he holds for himself and his loved ones. At several points in the game, I reflected on the numerous contradictions in his character, trying as best I could to elucidate. I couldn't.

Well Edward is a divided and flawed guy. He's a good guy who tries to make himself a worse person than he actually is.


I truly believe that AC3 was a better game,
simply because I returned to playing it, not feeling any disappointment that had infected my views of it on its initial release. The same cannot be said for Black Flag.

AC3 is a more ambitious and innovative game than Black Flag and Unity, but its a fairly flawed game by any measures. It had amazing potential and when its great its great, its also far more beautiful than any Old Gen title and it has crazy ideas there. Black Flag is on the whole the more satisfying game and smartly produced one, in terms of integration of side missions and a more entertaining historical cast, none of the American Founders in AC3 ever escape being textbooks whereas the Pirates in Black Flag are all three dimensional characters.

AC3 is your old Hollywood epic, your David Lean movie whereas Black Flag is a B-Movie shot using the same sets of a David Lean movie, directed by Raoul Walsh or Jacques Tourneur.

LieutenantRex
05-17-2015, 05:45 PM
AC3 is your old Hollywood epic, your David Lean movie whereas Black Flag is a B-Movie shot using the same sets of a David Lean movie, directed by Raoul Walsh or Jacques Tourneur.

Haha. That was a pretty amusing analogy.

phoenix-force411
05-17-2015, 06:15 PM
That's sort of how I felt with ACIV. ACIV had defining moments that had a big "WTF" moment such as: Edward's Assassin Robes and the Death of Loreano Torres. It's never explained who the heck left convenient assassin robes on the table where Edward acquired them, and Torres's death was just so anti-climatic and so poorly done.

The main locations in ACIV just really tires me out because there's nothing really defining about them other than they look different and all that other stuff. I enjoyed AC Rogue's world more than Black Flag's because it was so much more dynamic and the ice bergs and stuff added more dangers to the world.

For Naval Combat and boats and stuff, Naval Combat was a lot more realistic in ACIII. ACIII required timing and precision to really damage ships besides Schooners. Well-aimed hits to a Man O' War and you can sink it in seconds whereas in ACIV it takes an unbelievable amount of hits. You are more attached to your crew in ACIII, because you knew everyone on the ship and who controlled what over the ship unlike in ACIV where everyone is expendable besides Adewale. Your ship takes realistic damage and the damage done to your ship does show as it takes more damage from enemy ships. Sound and special effects are very realistic in ACIII, because you can hear all of the cannons firing and you can see the side of your ship lighting up due to the cannons firing. Lastly, but not least, the crew needs time to change shots before you can fire again and the reload time does take longer compared to ACIV. Because ACIV is more naval focused, a lot of the realistic elements had to be stripped to make naval more fast paced, but in the process of doing that they kill a lot of the immersion in it. Also, the Aquila is a Frigate and so HOORAH for Aquila!

Lastly, for story, none of the story missions were very memorable and there's not much to learn from Edward's story besides some fillers and who the sage is. Templars weren't very memorable, and all of a sudden, you are hunting them down. I believe there were 3 targets in the game that I didn't even know of and I had to kill them. No pity whatsoever. Edward's character development took a cliche shift which I thought was not really interesting. Kidd dying along with his other friends changed him to become a more selfless person isn't really something new. ACIII, overall, is still a much more meaningful game because a lot of the plot elements were not obvious. The fact that Connor is a love or hate character makes him that much more interesting. I think ACIV is so overrated.

Farlander1991
05-17-2015, 06:26 PM
It's never explained who the heck left convenient assassin robes

The table didn't have Assassin robes, just protective leatherpads (among with other battle equipment, so it makes sense for something like that to be there). Edward took off the coat and put the leatherpads on, the robe is still the one that he stole from Duncan, not a different one.


You are more attached to your crew in ACIII

How so? There's Faulkner who's the first mate, who else are we attached to? The two cannon guys we meet once in the story and then never see them (well, they're on the ship, but they're never in focus really) speak or hear their name ever again? Some attachment that is :p


Also, the Aquila is a Frigate and so HOORAH for Aquila!

Aquila's a brig. At least that's what they call it in the game, I don't remember how it looks like well enough to say how accurate that is.

phoenix-force411
05-17-2015, 06:36 PM
The table didn't have Assassin robes, just protective leatherpads (among with other battle equipment, so it makes sense for something like that to be there). Edward took off the coat and put the leatherpads on, the robe is still the one that he stole from Duncan, not a different one.


How so? There's Faulkner who's the first mate, who else are we attached to? The two cannon guys we meet once in the story and then never see them (well, they're on the ship, but they're never in focus really) speak or hear their name ever again? Some attachment that is :p



Aquila's a brig. At least that's what they call it in the game, I don't remember how it looks like well enough to say how accurate that is.

At least the two guys can always be seen and the rest of the crew wanders around the Homestead and opens doors for you. :)

When he first grabs the blocky looking assassin outfit from the table, it looks as if that was the full outfit. The description of the outfit does mention his outfit as a modified version of the Duncan outfit although the similarities are hardly there since you cannot see the interior of the Duncan outfit.

Shahkulu101
05-17-2015, 06:37 PM
AC3's naval has better production values and looks better, the cannons have far better sound effects too. However that's only because naval in AC3 isn't free-roam, it's really a bit unfair to compare the two naval systems because of that. Anyway, AC3's naval controlled really awkwardly and was quite frustrating at times. Sure AC4's is more game-y but if it plays better who cares?

Disagree with your assessment of the story, it's my favourite of the series. It's told beautifully, has a fantastic script and cast, and Edward to me is the most believable and human protagonist in the series. The ending was touching and really got me emotionally. There is a sense that it's maybe too simple and straightforward but it told the story it wanted to tell because of that. AC3's on the other and is too complex for it's own good and you have weird plot elements like Connor just shrugging off the fact Washington burned his village. In terms of gameplay AC3 is mostly atrocious with it's painfully linear campaign and depressingly simple, boring side content - the assassination contacts were an abomination. AC4 wasn't a masterpiece but the stealth, unlike AC3, functioned quite well and the side missions were very solid and addictive.

AC4 is the best in the series in my opinion and trounces all over AC3 in every aspect.

VestigialLlama4
05-17-2015, 06:41 PM
Aquila's a brig. At least that's what they call it in the game, I don't remember how it looks like well enough to say how accurate that is.

Aquila is a custom-made ship built-to-spec by the Assassins. You can't call it a brig or a frigate since its essentially their Batmobile. As fast and manoeuverable as a brig but with the firepower of a frigate. Jackdaw is a repurposed Spanish brig. The Aquila has a very distinct and elegant make and design with that amazing blue colour whereas Jackdaw is kind of like a muscle car which is constantly being modified and tuned up and later getting chrome plates.


How so? There's Faulkner who's the first mate, who else are we attached to? The two cannon guys we meet once in the story and then never see them (well, they're on the ship, but they're never in focus really) speak or hear their name ever again? Some attachment that is

I agree with that. I mean I didn't bond with the crew in AC3 more than Black Flag. Black Flag has open world sailing and sing-along shanties after all. I liked Faulkner a lot however, he and Connor had great interactions and he's also part of the Captain Kidd missions but the other crew were just there. They only matter in one of the later Homestead missions after Chesapeake Bay where you have to get a doctor to heal several seasick sailors.

The naval missions in AC3 may have been more tough (more scripted) than Black Flag but ultimately its not very hard (unless you do Full Synch missions), I do like the weather effects and storm sequences in AC3 more than Black Flag and the wave physics is a lot more scary there than in the pirate game (aside from the Spanish hurricane sequence of course near that Fort in Tulum). But AC3 is scripted so the graphics can be extra good and smooth, whereas doing that in open world for a annualized title on reused assets is trickier. Shooting ships in storms is a lot harder in AC3 and the Battle of Chesapeake Bay is fairly intense but nothing in AC3 approaches the Legendary Ships in Black Flag.

One thing that AC3 is indubitably superior to Black Flag. The first naval mission, The Forts where you are essentially firing at an artllery barrage on land and you have to move around. That is far harder and more intense than Black Flag's fort missions. That's still hard when you play it again.

phoenix-force411
05-17-2015, 06:55 PM
I agree with that. I mean I didn't bond with the crew in AC3 more than Black Flag. Black Flag has open world sailing and sing-along shanties after all. I liked Faulkner a lot however, he and Connor had great interactions and he's also part of the Captain Kidd missions but the other crew were just there. They only matter in one of the later Homestead missions after Chesapeake Bay where you have to get a doctor to heal several seasick sailors.

The naval missions in AC3 may have been more tough (more scripted) than Black Flag but ultimately its not very hard (unless you do Full Synch missions), I do like the weather effects and storm sequences in AC3 more than Black Flag and the wave physics is a lot more scary there than in the pirate game (aside from the Spanish hurricane sequence of course near that Fort in Tulum). But AC3 is scripted so the graphics can be extra good and smooth, whereas doing that in open world for a annualized title on reused assets is trickier. Shooting ships in storms is a lot harder in AC3 and the Battle of Chesapeake Bay is fairly intense but nothing in AC3 approaches the Legendary Ships in Black Flag.



Agreed. Faulkner and Connor had great interactions and ToKW added more special dialogues including Connor mentioning his grandfather. Adewale and Edward's interactions just didn't feel as special, and I just wasn't into Adewale's character which is why I don't bother to play Freedom Cry.

Farlander1991
05-17-2015, 07:00 PM
At least the two guys can always be seen and the rest of the crew wanders around the Homestead and opens doors for you.

And Edward's crew cheers for him whenever he comes aboard and sings shanties :p That's about the same level of interaction from a bunch of generic NPCs. But you also can recruit crew members by saving them from different troubles, and there's also an element of protecting them while boarding (the crew members with skulls above them are about to be killed).


When he first grabs the blocky looking assassin outfit from the table, it looks as if that was the full outfit.

He never grabs that blocky thing because there's no blocky thing on the table until he removes his coat. And the blocky thing is his coat :p The leatherpads are scattered in pieces and are not 'blocky'.


The description of the outfit does mention his outfit as a modified version of the Duncan outfit although the similarities are hardly there since you cannot see the interior of the Duncan outfit.

While it's true that you don't see most of the interior of the Duncan outfit, you do see the central part of the front and the flaps. The only parts of the outfit that really change are the ones that were covered by the coat, while the visible visually stay the same.

VestigialLlama4
05-17-2015, 07:09 PM
Agreed. Faulkner and Connor had great interactions and ToKW added more special dialogues including Connor mentioning his grandfather.

Really, that obvious fan-nod with Connor shilling! That was a special dialogue? It's kind of like this: "I wish to interrupt my Alternate Universe Adventure to shill for the star of the new game coming this October, starring not-me...yes you can stop cheering, and yes I hear you...it has my grandfather...(Silence)...not my mother's side, my Dad's Dad, my white grandpa...(Sigh of relief as audience won't play another Native American)...he's Welsh and he's a Pirate...(Crowd cheers wildly)."


Adewale and Edward's interactions just didn't feel as special, and I just wasn't into Adewale's character which is why I don't bother to play Freedom Cry.

Adewale is one of my all-time favorite AC characters and he and Edward have a deeper relationship than Connor and Faulkner (who are essentially co-workers who bond over a period of time). Adewale and Edward are best friends but its complicated and that friendship does get soured by the end of the game. For me, when I play Black Flag I do all the side missions with Adewale as my first mate, all the legendary ships and the diving and upgrading, because its not the same without him. That's how much I bonded with him.

phoenix-force411
05-17-2015, 07:14 PM
And Edward's crew cheers for him whenever he comes aboard and sings shanties :p That's about the same level of interaction from a bunch of generic NPCs. But you also can recruit crew members by saving them from different troubles, and there's also an element of protecting them while boarding (the crew members with skulls above them are about to be killed).



He never grabs that blocky thing because there's no blocky thing on the table until he removes his coat. And the blocky thing is his coat :p The leatherpads are scattered in pieces and are not 'blocky'.



While it's true that you don't see most of the interior of the Duncan outfit, you do see the central part of the front and the flaps. The only parts of the outfit that really change are the ones that were covered by the coat, while the visible visually stay the same.

It probably looks different because it is a different outfit and the since the interior is not the focus of the outfit, its appearance will probably slightly differ to some degree.

phoenix-force411
05-17-2015, 07:21 PM
Adewale is one of my all-time favorite AC characters and he and Edward have a deeper relationship than Connor and Faulkner (who are essentially co-workers who bond over a period of time). Adewale and Edward are best friends but its complicated and that friendship does get soured by the end of the game. For me, when I play Black Flag I do all the side missions with Adewale as my first mate, all the legendary ships and the diving and upgrading, because its not the same without him. That's how much I bonded with him.

I understand why Adewale left Edward, but yeah, he does leave at a time where you would at least expect him to. Many felt his death was unjustified in Rogue and to a degree I would agree, but on the other hand, I can't really forgive Adewale for not trying to persuade Achilles to not pursue the artifacts. Rogue may have been a game not important to Ubi, but the characters they involved do impact the fan base.

VestigialLlama4
05-17-2015, 07:21 PM
It probably looks different because it is a different outfit and the since the interior is not the focus of the outfit, its appearance will probably slightly differ to some degree.

Can I ask a question, why bother with the outfit? How does this minor quibbling make AC3's naval better than BLACK FLAG. I mean yeah, Connor looks like a captain of the ship while on deck and I like that outfit. And I happen to consider Edward's basic outfit the ugliest of all protagonists (i prefer the craftable ones as well as the DLC ones) but that has nothing to do with gameplay.

The point of this discussion is comparing Naval in AC3 to Naval in Black Flag, and other aspects. Visually AC3 is better than Black Flag, also has a lot more innovations but as important as that is in a long-term franchise, it doens't compensate for weaknesses in storytelling and weak mission design.

Though I would blame the weak missions on the fetishization of Haytham in the game since all the missions he's involved in are the most linear in AC3.

phoenix-force411
05-17-2015, 07:24 PM
Can I ask a question, why bother with the outfit? How does this minor quibbling make AC3's naval better than BLACK FLAG. I mean yeah, Connor looks like a captain of the ship while on deck and I like that outfit. And I happen to consider Edward's basic outfit the ugliest of all protagonists (i prefer the craftable ones as well as the DLC ones) but that has nothing to do with gameplay.

Side talk at best. Edward's assassin outfit is probably the only outfit I have equipped on Edward the most despite its unattractive looks to some. Outfit does impact gameplay, and if you are dissatisfied with your outfit you'll probably not enjoy the game as much as you would like to.

VestigialLlama4
05-17-2015, 07:25 PM
I understand why Adewale left Edward, but yeah, he does leave at a time where you would at least expect him to. Many felt his death was unjustified in Rogue and to a degree I would agree, but on the other hand, I can't really forgive Adewale for not trying to persuade Achilles to not pursue the artifacts. Rogue may have been a game not important to Ubi, but the characters they involved do impact the fan base.

I can understand liking Black Flag more than AC3 and preferring Edward over Connor (i.e. genuinely rather than my usual racist SJW accusations), I can't understand or tolerate liking ROGUE over either game.

VestigialLlama4
05-17-2015, 07:29 PM
Side talk at best. Edward's assassin outfit is probably the only outfit I have equipped on Edward the most despite its unattractive looks to some. Outfit does impact gameplay, and if you are dissatisfied with your outfit you'll probably not enjoy the game as much as you would like to.

Look, Edward is a poor-as-hell pirate down on his luck, he's supposed to look badly outfitted and scrappy. Connor's outfit in AC3 was hardly fashion week but it fitted the whole frontiersman and woodsman persona as did the Captain Outfit on Deck of Aquila.


In Black Flag you have a lot more options to try different kinds of outfits, you have governor's outfit, merchant outfits', accessory jackets (one crimson red one that makes Edward hoodless and makes him look like a rock star). I also really love the sleeveless sailor's outfit that he can wear. The DLC gives you Francis Drake, Henry Morgan (aka Pirate Outfit El Supremo) and a Gentleman Outfit (which I always make sure I wear in the final mission because I am sailing with my daughter back to civilian life).

phoenix-force411
05-17-2015, 07:29 PM
I can understand liking Black Flag more than AC3 and preferring Edward over Connor (i.e. genuinely rather than my usual racist SJW accusations), I can't understand or tolerate liking ROGUE over either game.

Rogue pales in comparison to both, because it is merely a filler and a bridge to Unity. I guess the only likable things in Rogue would be its world and characters(Shay to be specific since he is like a new Connor: a loved or hated character).

Charles_Phipps
05-17-2015, 08:02 PM
I understand why Adewale left Edward, but yeah, he does leave at a time where you would at least expect him to. Many felt his death was unjustified in Rogue and to a degree I would agree, but on the other hand, I can't really forgive Adewale for not trying to persuade Achilles to not pursue the artifacts. Rogue may have been a game not important to Ubi, but the characters they involved do impact the fan base.

I think Adewale would have listened to Shay more than Achilles and I think Achilles would have listened if Shay hadn't opened his conversation with an accusation. I can't blame Shay for doing so, though, since I don't think he was in a good headspace.

Hans684
05-17-2015, 08:04 PM
I think Adewale would have listened to Shay more than Achilles and I think Achilles would have listened if Shay hadn't opened his conversation with an accusation. I can't blame Shay for doing so, though, since I don't think he was in a good headspace.

He was willing to kill himself to prevent another earthquake, so you can say he's totally broken down.

Charles_Phipps
05-17-2015, 08:09 PM
Much of history makes sense when you realize that most people do not make 100% rational decisions or even 50%.

phoenix-force411
05-17-2015, 08:12 PM
I think Adewale would have listened to Shay more than Achilles and I think Achilles would have listened if Shay hadn't opened his conversation with an accusation. I can't blame Shay for doing so, though, since I don't think he was in a good headspace.

Accusation or not, he was given the facts and did not heed the warning. Achilles and every other assassin who died by Shay probably somewhat deserved their fate. They would see the world wounded again just to be proven wrong.

VestigialLlama4
05-17-2015, 08:15 PM
Can we continue on topic of AC4 Naval versus AC3 Naval? There are a lot of Rogue threads after all.

Kaschra
05-17-2015, 08:15 PM
I disagree with... well, EVERYTHING :)

I almost hated AC3's naval after playing AC4's. It felt really slow and clunky and was not much fun to play at all.

The story of AC4 was great, my favourite in the franchise. And Edward too was a great character.



I can understand liking Black Flag more than AC3 and preferring Edward over Connor (i.e. genuinely rather than my usual racist SJW accusations), I can't understand or tolerate liking ROGUE over either game.

You can't TOLERATE that someone likes Rogue more than AC3 and AC4...?
Sorry, but are you ****ing kidding me?

Charles_Phipps
05-17-2015, 08:17 PM
Yeah, I just completely disagree.

Black Flag is the best Assassins Creed game.

The AC 3 ship combat is blown out of the water by it, as far as I'm concerned.

phoenix-force411
05-17-2015, 08:17 PM
He was willing to kill himself to prevent another earthquake, so you can say he's totally broken down.

He is pretty much broken down at that point. He blames himself for the lives that were taken by the earthquake. I'm pretty sure anyone in his position cannot just brush it aside like the assassins did. He was pretty new to the assassins, and so, his views were not clouded as much as the assassins were due to their devotion to the creed.

harsab
05-17-2015, 09:56 PM
For me personally AC4 Black Flag is the worst game in the franchise for me. Not because of the game mechanics or setting, it's the story. Black Flag just had such a disappointing story that it influenced other AC'S, that's why i think Unitys story came out very bad because Ubi thought they could hardly mention the AC Lore & get away with it. I personally think BF ruined the story after AC3...it shocks me because Darby wrote Revelations which was my favorite story in the franchise.

Charles_Phipps
05-17-2015, 10:02 PM
For me personally AC4 Black Flag is the worst game in the franchise for me. Not because of the game mechanics or setting, it's the story. Black Flag just had such a disappointing story that it influenced other AC'S, that's why i think Unitys story came out very bad because Ubi thought they could hardly mention the AC Lore & get away with it. I personally think BF ruined the story after AC3...it shocks me because Darby wrote Revelations which was my favorite story in the franchise.

What is your problem with the story? I think it's one of the best given Edward Kenway has an actual emotional journey.

Hans684
05-17-2015, 10:11 PM
He is pretty much broken down at that point.

He is the most broken protagonist, he accidentally destroyed an entire city.


He blames himself for the lives that were taken by the earthquake.

"All those souls lost... One more hardly matters"


I'm pretty sure anyone in his position cannot just brush it aside like the assassins did.

The only character that I can think of that would is The Joker from Batman.


He was pretty new to the assassins, and so, his views were not clouded as much as the assassins were due to their devotion to the creed.

Achilles Brotherhood(and Adéwalé) is fanatic and is blinded by their own creed.

-------------------

Naval looks best in AC3. In Black Flag is bigger and calmer, not much of a challenge. Rogue's naval is far more fun, the snow and ice gives let's the nature "fight" the ship.

harsab
05-17-2015, 10:15 PM
What is your problem with the story? I think it's one of the best given Edward Kenway has an actual emotional journey.

It literally has nothing to do with the AC Lore, shouldn't of even been an AC Game. If i'm playing Assassins Creed i expect an Assassins Creed game not a game that's solely telling me the history of pirates, then it finishes. Like the Sage thing seemed last minute to me.

Charles_Phipps
05-17-2015, 10:18 PM
It literally has nothing to do with the AC Lore, shouldn't of even been an AC Game. If i'm playing Assassins Creed i expect an Assassins Creed game not a game that's solely telling me the history of pirates, then it finishes. Like the Sage thing seemed last minute to me.

For me, it was about how the Assassins appear to outsiders and I felt that was a powerful story. They provide contrast to Edward's selfish and self-satisfied journey.

I.e. "Why are the Assassins good guys?"

harsab
05-17-2015, 10:19 PM
For me, it was about how the Assassins appear to outsiders and I felt that was a powerful story. They provide contrast to Edward's selfish and self-satisfied journey.

I.e. "Why are the Assassins good guys?"

Still didn't feel like an AC Game. Just personal opinion i guess. AC4 BF was a success & got very good reviews. It just didn't resonate with me, that's all.

Kaschra
05-17-2015, 10:22 PM
It literally has nothing to do with the AC Lore, shouldn't of even been an AC Game. If i'm playing Assassins Creed i expect an Assassins Creed game not a game that's solely telling me the history of pirates, then it finishes. Like the Sage thing seemed last minute to me.

Aaaaah... you're one of these "Waaah AC4 is PIRATE's Creed" people.
Maybe pay some attention next time, because AC4 has a lot to do with the AC lore.
I also don't get how the Sage is a last minute thing, he already appears in Sequence 2.

harsab
05-17-2015, 10:27 PM
Aaaaah... you're one of these "Waaah AC4 is PIRATE's Creed" people.
Maybe pay some attention next time, because AC4 has a lot to do with the AC lore.
I also don't get how the Sage is a last minute thing, he already appears in Sequence 2.

I'm not one of those ''Waah AC4 is PIRATE's Creed people'' i'm not against the game by any means, i just personally didn't have a connection with it like i did with the previous AC Games. I was expecting mystery, conspiracies & strong tie ins with previous AC's but i just didn't get that so i got really disappointed when i completed the game. The game was a huge success though & many people enjoyed it. I have no hatred towards the fact people like it. Just a person opinion.

HiddenKiller612
05-17-2015, 10:29 PM
People should realize that not every assassin was born into it. Some were drawn to it after a unfulfilled life, like Adewale, or of a life in pursuit of the perceived happiness and riches like Edward. Most assassins bring something else to the table. Edward happened to be a pirate for the majority of the story, but he was still a part of the lore. He saw both sides before choosing. He was in the middle of the conflict before even realizing it, and after having done so did his best to make up for the short comings and the destruction to the brotherhood. If that isn't an Assassin's Creed game, I don't know what is.

Kaschra
05-17-2015, 10:42 PM
I'm not one of those ''Waah AC4 is PIRATE's Creed people'' i'm not against the game by any means, i just personally didn't have a connection with it like i did with the previous AC Games. I was expecting mystery, conspiracies & strong tie ins with previous AC's but i just didn't get that so i got really disappointed when i completed the game. The game was a huge success though & many people enjoyed it. I have no hatred towards the fact people like it. Just a person opinion.

You still haven't explained why you think that the Sage was a last minute addition (which is weird since he (and the Observatory) was one of the main plot points of the game)

I-Like-Pie45
05-17-2015, 10:47 PM
Kaschra are you tall

harsab
05-17-2015, 10:50 PM
You still haven't explained why you think that the Sage was a last minute addition (which is weird since he (and the Observatory) was one of the main plot points of the game)

If he isn't a last minute addition then it was a very lazy addition. What did he add to the AC Lore? lol nothing at all. A few words about his ''beloved'' and boom he dies. He had so much potential but it just didn't pan it out right.

Kaschra
05-17-2015, 11:01 PM
If he isn't a last minute addition then it was a very lazy addition. What did he add to the AC Lore? lol nothing at all. A few words about his ''beloved'' and boom he dies. He had so much potential but it just didn't pan it out right.
Nope sorry, I absolutely can't agree with that. I thought Roberts was a really fascinating character, and the concept of Sages added something really interesting to the franchise.
A man, pretty much reborn again and again throughout the centuries, who still has memories of Aita and the long forgotten time of the First Civilization.

Besides, Roberts is not the only Sage in AC4. There's also John during Modern Day, and not to forget, Thomas Kavanagh's letters.

Charles_Phipps
05-17-2015, 11:09 PM
I like the Sages but I *HATE* That Germaine and Jacques De Morlay were one.

The Templars shouldn't be slaves to those stupid Alien Space Gods.

Kaschra
05-17-2015, 11:13 PM
I like the Sages but I *HATE* That Germaine and Jacques De Morlay were one.

The Templars shouldn't be slaves to those stupid Alien Space Gods.

Yeah, I also don't like how the Sage thing was handled in Unity.
It has no real impact on Germaine or de Molay. We only get a small glimpse during Germaine's death speech, that's it.

harsab
05-17-2015, 11:13 PM
Nope sorry, I absolutely can't agree with that. I thought Roberts was a really fascinating character, and the concept of Sages added something really interesting to the franchise.
A man, pretty much reborn again and again throughout the centuries, who still has memories of Aita and the long forgotten time of the First Civilization.

Besides, Roberts is not the only Sage in AC4. There's also John during Modern Day, and not to forget, Thomas Kavanagh's letters.

It was very underwhelming for me, you like it that's cool. I just didn't enjoy how it was portrayed in AC4, it wasn't enough. If there was maybe a flashback to first civ times that the Sage shows you then it might of intrigued me more. It just wasn't enough for me. That's it.

D.I.D.
05-17-2015, 11:25 PM
It's pretty simple for me.

AC3 is an historical diorama. It's a model that shows you a specific set-up, and there's almost nothing you can do with any skilful input to significantly alter your chances of success - whatever experience you had was identical to the one I had. It teases the idea that something's going to happen, but all you've got at the end is the prospect of playing the DLC. You're led through the museum and out through the gift shop.

AC4 is a proper game. It's by no means perfect, but at the time it was the closest the series had come to making you think, plan and strategise. The layout of the missions was better than ever, offering some tricky situations and the tools and environmental features to deal with them. It also had the mad scramble set-pieces of the forts, which were a great pairing of a sea battle followed by a chaotic beat-'em-up. Black Flag understood better than AC3 that you were supposed to feel something during a game, and to be entertained.

MissAcrophobia
05-18-2015, 12:05 AM
Yeah, I also don't like how the Sage thing was handled in Unity.
It has no real impact on Germaine or de Molay. We only get a small glimpse during Germaine's death speech, that's it.

Ha, I didn't like it either, and I haven't even played Unity!
Maybe it would make sense if the Sage occasionally put the Templars back on track, so to speak, if it was necessary, but as it is... it just doesn't fit.
As for John, I really think he was killed too soon. He could have been the connection between AC4 and the next games, but no...


I admit, I was one of the 'Oh noes, it's Pirate's Creed!' people - until I played it. At first it did feel like the assassin part was a bit short, but it works. After all, this is the story of an assassin who was not born into the Creed, had nothing to do with it, so why would he join just because his friend shows him around a bit?
I also think the supporting characters were handled better than in the other games (can't speak for AC3). They were actually part of the story and not just... there.

LieutenantRex
05-18-2015, 12:27 AM
I created this thread to accentuate the inadequacies between Black Flag's naval combat and atmosphere, not explicitly compare the stories and characters, although in hindsight I see how the original posts presentation could have led to such implications.

Someone responded earlier on the topic of naval gameplay for the two games, and while I wish not to belie or question the credibility of that person (and these things are subjective), as I played the naval portions of the games extensively, and in tandem, I have to say that AC3's naval environment was simply better as a whole. The Jackdaw in Black Flag felt so light and insignificant juxtaposed with the Aquila, and again, there is no visible ship damage or ship hindrance in general. You will not lose cannons that cripple your ability to destroy two men-o-wars, destroying any tension and desperate struggle for survival that missions in AC3 conjured.