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BaldieJr
04-14-2004, 07:14 AM
Neither have I!!!!
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
I've seen these though:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_6800_ultra/images/il21600.gif

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BaldieJr
04-14-2004, 07:14 AM
Neither have I!!!!
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
I've seen these though:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_6800_ultra/images/il21600.gif

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|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

BaldieJr
04-14-2004, 07:28 AM
I might as well post this too...

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_6800_ultra/images/lomac1600.gif

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+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

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TgD Thunderbolt56
04-14-2004, 07:29 AM
Yeah, baby...yeah.


btw...where did you get those?



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

Nub_322Sqn
04-14-2004, 07:37 AM
Comparing apples to oranges again Baldie?

And what new ATI cards?

Those are all old ones, lol.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rcma/banners/Nubarusbanner.jpg

SUPERAEREO
04-14-2004, 07:38 AM
Blimey!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

S!

PS: they are from here: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/



"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."
Chuck Yaeger

Diablo310th
04-14-2004, 07:40 AM
Hmmmmmmm almost has me going back to GForce.

http://www.wellspringmarketing.biz/310th/Diablos20Sig.jpg

Nub_322Sqn
04-14-2004, 07:43 AM
I will make up my mind when the 6800 Ultra is benchmarked against the Radeon X880 XT.

Or isn't the 6800 Ultra PCI Express 16x?

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rcma/banners/Nubarusbanner.jpg

BaldieJr
04-14-2004, 07:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T-ONub_322Sqn:
Comparing apples to oranges again Baldie?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should say that to the next person who upgrades from a ti4200 to a 9800Pro and claims ATI is superior. We see those posts all the time.

Right now, nVidia has the fastest part. Get over it.

See firing squad for a complete review. This card is almost twice as fast as anything out there, and totally owns in AA/AF.

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+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

Nub_322Sqn
04-14-2004, 07:49 AM
Like I said, we will see how it does against the Radeon X880 XT.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rcma/banners/Nubarusbanner.jpg

michapma
04-14-2004, 07:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
You should say that to the next person who upgrades from a ti4200 to a 9800Pro and claims ATI is superior. We see those posts all the time.

Right now, nVidia has the fastest part. Get over it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


For $200, the 9800 Pro is the best value on the market. Get over it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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georgeo76
04-14-2004, 08:00 AM
You know, I remember when my ti4600 was on the top of the heap http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Seeing it bring up the rear is just depressing.

______________________
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Alexi_Alx_Anova
04-14-2004, 08:04 AM
I note that the fireingsquad review states that the 9800 Ultra is PCI express native (bottom of page 2). All that I have read so far has clearly stated that the first Nvidia NV40-based cards will not be true native PCI express. Rather, they have a bridging chip to make what is effectively an AGP card fit into a PCI express slot. Perhaps Nvidia changed their minds after all thenegative press about this cludging chip. In any case, it's kind of moot at the moment since we don't know if PCI express will make a detectable improvement over AGP.

Give it six to 12 months for the battle to sort itself out and see who is the winner.

Alexi

-----------------------------
Drug of choice....coffee

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~alx_747/coffee.jpg
-----------------------------

maxim26
04-14-2004, 08:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
You should say that to the next person who upgrades from a ti4200 to a 9800Pro and claims ATI is superior. We see those posts all the time.

Right now, nVidia has the fastest part. Get over it.

See firing squad for a complete review. This card is almost twice as fast as anything out there, and totally owns in AA/AF.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please, dont confuse people here. The banchmarks you posted compare NEW nVidia card and OLD ATI card, which has no sence. By the end of April (just 2 weeks) ATI will release X880 XT and i'm shure thet banchmarks will look different.

More over, ATI will have advantage in the June, when both companies will release PCI Express solutions. ATI has better not compromised PCI Express architecture.

And I didn't understand your coment about upgreading ti420 to 9800 pro. Even after 6800 release, 9800 pro is the best card in its price category.

Zayets
04-14-2004, 08:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T-ONub_322Sqn:
Comparing apples to oranges again Baldie?

And what new ATI cards?

Those are all old ones, lol.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rcma/banners/Nubarusbanner.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pi$$ed because you've lost the train?hehehehe.Your time will come again with the next gen ATI cards. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Don't be upset.

Zayets out
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-iar80pic.jpg

BaldieJr
04-14-2004, 08:20 AM
ATI fans will fight tooth and nail, no matter what the data is.

Bang for buck comparisions:


Card Price FPS Rank $/Fps Pricerank
--------------------------------------------------
6800U 499 35.8 8 13.93 4
9800xt 399 21.8 7 18.30 6
9800Pro 201 19.3 6 10.41 2
5950U 369 18.2 5 20.27 7
9700Pro 175 17.5 4 10 1
5900U 272 17.5 3 15.54 5
5900XT 176 13.4 2 13.13 3
Ti4600 122 5.7 1 21.40 8

The 9700 Pro is currently the "bang for buck" king, coming in at $10 per frame/second.

But keep in mind that you are talking about last years technology at todays pricing.

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Nub_322Sqn
04-14-2004, 08:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zayets:
Pi$$ed because you've lost the train?hehehehe.Your time will come again with the next gen ATI cards. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Don't be upset.

Zayets out<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A clear case of seeing what you want to see.

I am not pi$$ed, it's just funny to see a topic stating "OMG! Have you seen the new ATI card benchmarks?!?" and then looking at old ATI cards being benched.

The topic should be called "OMG! Have you seen the new Nvidia vs old ATI card benchmarks?!?"

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rcma/banners/Nubarusbanner.jpg

Zayets
04-14-2004, 08:28 AM
Yeah baby,yeah!
I can't even dream how UT will move on my future Slack box! Yea,yea,yeaaaaa! I better wait a bit for more months until the price will go a bit down for the nextgen cards. Also,I'm planning to buy SCSI HDD(s) instead of IDE or SATA's. That should speed up the new machine.Now,bring my that BoB game,I know just the cure!Hehehehe.I've kept this Ti4600 for 3 years and still works well. Believe it or not I have now a 9800XT as well (200 eur) but didn't had time to put it in my box. I'll do that in weekend probably.Now , I'm not quite sure I will keep it,but who knows...

Zayets out
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-iar80pic.jpg

BaldieJr
04-14-2004, 08:30 AM
New metric, just for fun.

Suppose you rank each card on it FPS score (8 cards, 1 = worst, 8 = best), and then rank each card on its value (1 = worst, 8 = best), and then add those two numbers.

The new nvidia part bests the nearest (ati) competition by two whole points.

So, best value goes to ATI, best real-world "bang for the buck" goes to nVidia.

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</pre>

PriK
04-14-2004, 08:31 AM
Baldie is simply stating what the video card world looks like NOW so "apples and oranges" don't apply. Sure that can change in a few months, years, decades but those charts show what's going on NOW.

Nevertheless my next card will likely be 9800 because there's no way in hell I'm paying $699 plus 15% tax for a frikkin video card, be sure.

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Zayets
04-14-2004, 08:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T-ONub_322Sqn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zayets:
Pi$$ed because you've lost the train?hehehehe.Your time will come again with the next gen ATI cards. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Don't be upset.

Zayets out<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A clear case of seeing what you want to see.

I am not pi$$ed, it's just funny to see a topic stating "OMG! Have you seen the new ATI card benchmarks?!?" and then looking at old ATI cards being benched.

The topic should be called "OMG! Have you seen the new Nvidia vs old ATI card benchmarks?!?"

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rcma/banners/Nubarusbanner.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Listen my friend, I don't give a damn what card has better fps as long as my card plays everything just OK. I'm not an nVidia fan but I tend to buy them for their outstanding support for Linux.Not everyone uses only Windows,you see? I have aquired a 9800XT for gamming only,because I've heard is good.Didn't had time to test it ... yet. But now I'm thinking if I should return it or not.
And since we are still on this subject look back on the board and see how comparing was always done : Ti's vs 9xxxx or Fx5200 vs 9xxx and so on.
As I said, don't be upset.Your time will come.

Zayets out
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-iar80pic.jpg

michapma
04-14-2004, 08:35 AM
This thread has me wondering if it wouldn't be better to hold out a few more months on seeing what graphics card to get. My 4200 is still quite playable... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

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Nub_322Sqn
04-14-2004, 08:40 AM
Again, what makes me look upset?

I was sure that my post about the incorrect thread title vs the content was clear but it seems it's not.

Oh well....

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rcma/banners/Nubarusbanner.jpg

jgur1
04-14-2004, 08:57 AM
Hey Guys....Instead of possibly getting someone too pissed off, just remember that in either card, its only good this week, as next week they will have newer, faster ones as long as us suckers want the ultimate... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

jgur

KGr.HH-Sunburst
04-14-2004, 09:05 AM
another troll post
apples and oranges
Baldie move along no soup for you.go crawl back under the rock you came from http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

http://www.freewebs.com/fightingpumas/
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oeqvist
04-14-2004, 09:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T-ONub_322Sqn:
Comparing apples to oranges again Baldie?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should say that to the next person who upgrades from a ti4200 to a 9800Pro and claims ATI is superior. We see those posts all the time.

Right now, nVidia has the fastest part. Get over it.

See firing squad for a complete review. This card is almost twice as fast as anything out there, and totally owns in AA/AF.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
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(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn´t that a bit ignorant when we have no benchies on the R420? The release date for the NV40 and R420 is the same really. 26th of April then we are talking.

We have known since long that this generation will be twice as fast as the old generation. It has always been like that. Geforce 2 to Geforce 3. Geforce 3 to 9700 PRO. 9700 PRO to NV40/R420.

nVidia is the master of hype. ATI was as silent about the 9700 PRO as they are with the R420 so believe me those who preorder a NV40 today may feel totally confused when the R420 comes out http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Baldie do you think we should compare the 9700 PRO to the Geforce 4 ti-4600?? They where released about the same time.

The NV40 will ship at the same time as the R420 so why compare it with the old generation it makes -1 sense. It´s like saying the NV40 smokes the 5950 ULTRA to death big surprise isn´t it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

About the NV40 it sure got the performance, it allows you to run full trilinear filtering. It has adopted ATI:s rotating grid antialiasing almost as well as ATI:s. the 6800 ULTRA:s anisotrophic filtering is definiatly on par with the Radeons and in some areas a little bit better really.

So the NV40 IQ seem to be just about on par with the Radeons so it´s just a question if the R420 improves over the previous generation in that department. If they do nVidia still lost the IQ race and have to hope for winning the FPS race to be competitive really.

That is yet to see really. I was a bit surprised that the 6800 ULTRA is clocked so low as for 400 MHZ on the core though against R420:s 600 Mhz. Not that it necessarily have to mean anything. The 59XX got higher clocks than the 98XX series...

Before making your judgements wait until they are actually released on the market. It´s a bit ignorant to preclaim this the "ATI killer" card from a company that has been behind technology wise for 2-3 years really when no numbers are showned on the R420.

But that is great news. Now I know for sure I will upgrade my video card soon. If the R420 is a total failure the NV40 is no slouch either http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

PriK for that you have to wait until they are actually in the stores and it´s entirely possible the R420 will be on the shelves before the NV40. They got the same release date of 26th april but that can of course change very soon.

But as the world looks now we have the 5950 ULTRA and 9800 XT on our hands. And if I could send this back without loosing to much money I would do it as soon as possible because they will become quite worthless when the next gen arrives. The 9800 PRO prices I don´t expect will drop much but the 9800XT prices will drop like a stone. I would estimate really close to the 9800 PRO costs just what happened to the 9700 PRO. Still sells for like 200$.

Real world bang for the buck is still 9800XT or the 5950 ULTRA really.

lbhskier37
04-14-2004, 09:18 AM
The predictions dont have the R420 matching the NV40, or at least from where I have been looking. That is why ATI is releaseing the follow-up to the R420 at the end of May already http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I don't think ATI would be releasing the X800XT in May if the X800Pro already beat Nvidias best. As for people talking about PCI Express, it will show no advantage for gamers initially, even ATI has said so, cards don't fully use AGP 8X. I have been running ATI for a while, and I think this might be my chance to run Nvidia again, I am getting quite sick of the "awesome" drivers that keep coming out for ATI. Oh and to all fanboys of each side, I run ATI now, I would run either side if it were a better deal. Right now I am seeing Nvidia as maybe being that for the next gen of cards.

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TooCooL34
04-14-2004, 09:28 AM
I like this holy war. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

-----------------

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Full real but limited icon, minimap path and spdbar.
You can expect something, since I run the server myself. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

oeqvist
04-14-2004, 09:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lbhskier37:
The predictions dont have the R420 matching the NV40, or at least from where I have been looking. That is why ATI is releaseing the follow-up to the R420 at the end of May already http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I don't think ATI would be releasing the X800XT in May if the X800Pro already beat Nvidias best. As for people talking about PCI Express, it will show no advantage for gamers initially, even ATI has said so, cards don't fully use AGP 8X. I have been running ATI for a while, and I think this might be my chance to run Nvidia again, I am getting quite sick of the "awesome" drivers that keep coming out for ATI. Oh and to all fanboys of each side, I run ATI now, I would run either side if it were a better deal. Right now I am seeing Nvidia as maybe being that for the next gen of cards.

http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&whereauthorid=lbhkilla&comefrom=display&ts=1049772896
Official "uber190n00b"
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is no predictions on the R420 it´s a well kept secret. And as I said ATI did the same with the R300 and that wasn´t a failure was it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

As of today noone can speculate very accurate about the R420:s performance except the ATI engineers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And don´t fall for all this hype. As I have said nVidias marketing team is the best in the computer business. We have the NV30 everyone thinks it is DA ****. It isn´t but then we get the NV35 and now we are sure it is da **** and ATI killer. It isn´t and now we have the NV40 and now is absolutely super confident it is da **** and an ATI killer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

It may be so of course but you can´t make that call from the history can you? You just have to know how the nVidia and ATI marketing team works. nVidia likes to go off with a bang and everyone loves them for it. ATI just releases their cards and let them talk for themself really.

All these speculations is absolutely worthless when we don´t have the cards on the table.

I know it´s a long wait but it´s soon over http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If I would speculate I would believe ATI have the better IQ and the performance I have absolutely no clue about which will be faster http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

tsisqua
04-14-2004, 10:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You should say that to the next person who upgrades from a ti4200 to a 9800Pro and claims ATI is superior. We see those posts all the time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That would be me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Seriously, though, Baldie . . . Right now was the right time for me to get the 9800 Pro, since it was only $219.00 US. If I spend more than a couple hundred on a video card, my wife starts to have asthma attacks. For the money, I have the best card that I could afford (barely).

This Nvidia vs ATI war will go on incessantly as each maker continues to "one-up" the other. This time next year, we that have PCI Express native cards will no longer have frame rate issues.

Then comes the eyeball helmet monitor, and the hollodeck.

Tsisqua

BaldieJr
04-14-2004, 10:50 AM
Tsisqua,

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger (or tonto?) in this. Several people have made the same comparisions.

I even recal bashing ATI "WAY BACK WHEN" after upgrading to a Voodoo Rush. Sure, the comparision was indeed unfair, as the ati card wasn't even a 3d part, but my assesment was still correct: the Voodoo Rush card was far better than an ATI.

I also claimed nVidias superiority when I returned a MUCH HYPED Radeon and got myself a greater GeForce part.

Apples are compared to oranges on a regular bases. The origional mentioning of said fruit was just an effort by the poster to excuse his beloved card manufacturer for not producing a competitive product today.

As for your purchase: I almost made the same purchase, if that means anything to you.

As a LOMAC fan, I decided to wait. If FB were the only game I played, I probably would have bought the 9800Pro two weeks ago.

To each his own, and nVidia is clearly the current leader in graphics technology http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
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/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

oeqvist
04-14-2004, 10:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tsisqua:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You should say that to the next person who upgrades from a ti4200 to a 9800Pro and claims ATI is superior. We see those posts all the time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That would be me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Seriously, though, Baldie . . . Right now was the right time for me to get the 9800 Pro, since it was only $219.00 US. If I spend more than a couple hundred on a video card, my wife starts to have asthma attacks. For the money, I have the best card that I could afford (barely).

This Nvidia vs ATI war will go on incessantly as each maker continues to "one-up" the other. This time next year, we that have PCI Express native cards will no longer have frame rate issues.

Then comes the eyeball helmet monitor, and the hollodeck.

Tsisqua<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes good move I think the prices on the 9800 PRO will be as of today or even go up a bit.
But the best bang for the buck is probably still a crappy 9600 but you don´t want that do you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Actually PCI-Express are better for 3D modelling then such then gaming. There was a awesome post explaining why PCI-X are so good over at www.hardforums.com (http://www.hardforums.com). For gaming performance though it will do absolutely nothing really in term of performance.

But now is the time to get a high end video card and brag for it. Or perhaps when the R800XT comes around since that will be released a month after the R420. Then you can brag for 6 months about you having the fastest video card around and the next 18 month bragging how well it still do just like we former 9700 PRO owners used to and still do http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Instead of those 9800XT owners who could brag for 4 months then it´s more or less obsolete for high res gaming with games like HL 2/STALKER/FAR CRY/DOOM 3 around the corner or here already

Cajun76
04-14-2004, 11:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tsisqua:

Then comes the eyeball helmet monitor, and the hollodeck.

Tsisqua<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My holodeck is on order right now. I expect by 2035 at the latest. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

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Bearcat99
04-14-2004, 11:26 AM
I wont be doing any major upgrades till BoB come out... my current rig plays FB fine... Im sure by then ther will be some new hot players out and that card will go for about $200....



All I need now is a TIR2.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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oeqvist
04-14-2004, 11:39 AM
BaldieJR how can you make such statement when you haven´t even seen the R420. There is working samples of that out too you know?? Are you working for ATI or??

Can you please post me your X800 benchies and screenshots?

CO_Eagle_31stFG
04-14-2004, 11:40 AM
You know if GF raised the steaks that ATI will be there also wether its advertised or not. The real question will be do you actually have a system capable of pulling out what that card offers.
I dont think it will really benefit anyone unless graphics engines put out more realistic scenery better than Mega scenery for 2004. Think about it how much better can a computer generated image look.
The most I have seen in difference even at the GF site, between whats availiable now and whats comming out, only amounts to changing some brightness or contrast on your currect card or monitor settings. The actual picture isn't better just lighting rendered differently.
Anyway I havent been impressed by what I have seen so far, and definately not impressed enough to start saving towards it. Besides whats it going to start at ...like every other new card $400 plus.

[This message was edited by CO_Eagle_31stFG on Wed April 14 2004 at 11:00 AM.]

[This message was edited by CO_Eagle_31stFG on Wed April 14 2004 at 11:01 AM.]

reddevil49
04-14-2004, 11:45 AM
Me personaly Intend to wait and see what happens before I decide on wich card to get. No more will I get sucked in by the hype and buy on impulse as I did with the 5900 ultra. Only to find out that the card did not deliver what it claimed. You no the old saying once bitten twice shy. I plan to do a long and careful study first. This is just my 2 cents so take with a grain of salt.

Nub_322Sqn
04-14-2004, 12:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Apples are compared to oranges on a regular bases. The origional mentioning of said fruit was just an effort by the poster to excuse his beloved card manufacturer for not producing a competitive product today.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's called selective reading Baldie.

You just made an error in your topic title since you posted benchmarks of the new Nvidia card, not the new ATI card since there are no benchmarks of the new ATI card yet.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rcma/banners/Nubarusbanner.jpg

BaldieJr
04-14-2004, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by oeqvist:
BaldieJR how can you make such statement when you haven´t even seen the R420. There is working samples of that out too you know?? Are you working for ATI or??

Can you please post me your X800 benchies and screenshots?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

which statement are you talking about?

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

G13man
04-14-2004, 12:31 PM
could not find it in stores, so it's not the fastest yet.....

k6-2 .5g,198m,2 megvid also
Albatron K8X800 PROII :64|3200
1G MushkinPc3500[2-3-2-6],9800xt
reusing,case,os98se,[64?]hd,cd

p1ngu666
04-14-2004, 01:48 PM
baldie is just pointing us to a benchmark on what was avalible to reviewer at the time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
but how much will affordable cards be?
or the haxable cards http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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609IAP_Recon
04-14-2004, 01:56 PM
"You should say that to the next person who upgrades from a ti4200 to a 9800Pro and claims ATI is superior"

hmmmm. maybe you ought to read your own data with that claim.

Let's see, a 9800Pro is 19.3
The 4600 is only 5.7

And you have a problem with people saying a 9800PRO is superior over a 4200 ?

Salute!

JG50_Recon

http://www.forgottenskies.com/Recon_sig.gif

lbhskier37
04-14-2004, 01:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by oeqvist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lbhskier37:
The predictions dont have the R420 matching the NV40, or at least from where I have been looking. That is why ATI is releaseing the follow-up to the R420 at the end of May already http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I don't think ATI would be releasing the X800XT in May if the X800Pro already beat Nvidias best. As for people talking about PCI Express, it will show no advantage for gamers initially, even ATI has said so, cards don't fully use AGP 8X. I have been running ATI for a while, and I think this might be my chance to run Nvidia again, I am getting quite sick of the "awesome" drivers that keep coming out for ATI. Oh and to all fanboys of each side, I run ATI now, I would run either side if it were a better deal. Right now I am seeing Nvidia as maybe being that for the next gen of cards.

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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is no predictions on the R420 it´s a well kept secret. And as I said ATI did the same with the R300 and that wasn´t a failure was it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

As of today noone can speculate very accurate about the R420:s performance except the ATI engineers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And don´t fall for all this hype. As I have said nVidias marketing team is the best in the computer business. We have the NV30 everyone thinks it is DA ****. It isn´t but then we get the NV35 and now we are sure it is da **** and ATI killer. It isn´t and now we have the NV40 and now is absolutely super confident it is da **** and an ATI killer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

It may be so of course but you can´t make that call from the history can you? You just have to know how the nVidia and ATI marketing team works. nVidia likes to go off with a bang and everyone loves them for it. ATI just releases their cards and let them talk for themself really.

All these speculations is absolutely worthless when we don´t have the cards on the table.

I know it´s a long wait but it´s soon over http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If I would speculate I would believe ATI have the better IQ and the performance I have absolutely no clue about which will be faster http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now if you look at the whole picture without fanboyishness http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif you would come to the same educated guess as I am. The R420 is confirmed to have 12 pipelines, the NV40 has 16. The R420 is clocked faster, but the NV30-38 were clocked faster than the ATI parts (which had more pipelines) and the ATI parts came out on top, especially in games that are heavy on the shaders. The last piece of evidence is that ATI is coming out with the X800XT only a month after the X800Pro, where-as they waited 6 months after the 9800Pro to release the 9800XT. What would be the reasoning behind making your top end part obsolete after only a month if it was the fastest thing out there. Another thing is that NVIDIA knew I am sure early on in the NV30 development that it was going to suck. With this in mind would they not do everything in their power to make a part that actually works next time? They saw what happened to 3DFX and im sure they dont want to fall to the same fate. This is why I can make an educated guess that the NV40 should outperform the R420, now when the X800XT comes out it might be a different story but I dont see Nvidia just sitting around then either. All in all I think it will be quite an interesting year in graphics.

Now that you got on me about speculating with no knowledge, lets hear some reasoning why the R420 WILL have better image quality like you seem to think. I think right now this is the bigger unknown, you may be correct, but there is no evidence to support either case at the moment.

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Nub_322Sqn
04-14-2004, 02:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lbhskier37:
The R420 is confirmed to have 12 pipelines, the NV40 has 16.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then you read something different then I since the budget version will have 12 pipelines but the full version has 16 pipelines.

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lbhskier37
04-14-2004, 02:06 PM
The 16 pipeline version is the X800XT. It is the "sequel" to the X800Pro. The 16 pipeline version isn't going to be released until May.

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Nub_322Sqn
04-14-2004, 02:10 PM
That's not what you said, you said that R420 will have 12 pipelines.

It doesn't matter if it's a Pro or a XT card or when it will be released, the R420 has 8, 12 or 16 pipelines, not only 12.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rcma/banners/Nubarusbanner.jpg

faustnik
04-14-2004, 02:14 PM
Not sure I understand the brand identification deal? I don't care who makes it as long as it is really fast!

I've owned both ATI and Nvidia cards, both have worked great.

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lbhskier37
04-14-2004, 02:17 PM
Excuse me I miss spoke. The R420 coming out THIS month will have 12 pipelines. The R420 that will come out with 16 pipelines is the XT model. Like I said in my post, they are releasing the XT model only 1 months after the Pro, where-as last time they waited 6 months to release the XT model. This is why I am speculating that the NV40 is faster than the X800Pro. If it wasnt faster why wouldnt they wait 6 months like they did last time?

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oeqvist
04-14-2004, 02:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lbhskier37:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by oeqvist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lbhskier37:
The predictions dont have the R420 matching the NV40, or at least from where I have been looking. That is why ATI is releaseing the follow-up to the R420 at the end of May already http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I don't think ATI would be releasing the X800XT in May if the X800Pro already beat Nvidias best. As for people talking about PCI Express, it will show no advantage for gamers initially, even ATI has said so, cards don't fully use AGP 8X. I have been running ATI for a while, and I think this might be my chance to run Nvidia again, I am getting quite sick of the "awesome" drivers that keep coming out for ATI. Oh and to all fanboys of each side, I run ATI now, I would run either side if it were a better deal. Right now I am seeing Nvidia as maybe being that for the next gen of cards.

http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&whereauthorid=lbhkilla&comefrom=display&ts=1049772896
Official "uber190n00b"
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is no predictions on the R420 it´s a well kept secret. And as I said ATI did the same with the R300 and that wasn´t a failure was it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

As of today noone can speculate very accurate about the R420:s performance except the ATI engineers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And don´t fall for all this hype. As I have said nVidias marketing team is the best in the computer business. We have the NV30 everyone thinks it is DA ****. It isn´t but then we get the NV35 and now we are sure it is da **** and ATI killer. It isn´t and now we have the NV40 and now is absolutely super confident it is da **** and an ATI killer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

It may be so of course but you can´t make that call from the history can you? You just have to know how the nVidia and ATI marketing team works. nVidia likes to go off with a bang and everyone loves them for it. ATI just releases their cards and let them talk for themself really.

All these speculations is absolutely worthless when we don´t have the cards on the table.

I know it´s a long wait but it´s soon over http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If I would speculate I would believe ATI have the better IQ and the performance I have absolutely no clue about which will be faster http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now if you look at the whole picture without fanboyishness http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif you would come to the same educated guess as I am. The R420 is confirmed to have 12 pipelines, the NV40 has 16. The R420 is clocked faster, but the NV30-38 were clocked faster than the ATI parts (which had more pipelines) and the ATI parts came out on top, especially in games that are heavy on the shaders. The last piece of evidence is that ATI is coming out with the X800XT only a month after the X800Pro, where-as they waited 6 months after the 9800Pro to release the 9800XT. What would be the reasoning behind making your top end part obsolete after only a month if it was the fastest thing out there. Another thing is that NVIDIA knew I am sure early on in the NV30 development that it was going to suck. With this in mind would they not do everything in their power to make a part that actually works next time? They saw what happened to 3DFX and im sure they dont want to fall to the same fate. This is why I can make an educated guess that the NV40 should outperform the R420, now when the X800XT comes out it might be a different story but I dont see Nvidia just sitting around then either. All in all I think it will be quite an interesting year in graphics.

Now that you got on me about speculating with no knowledge, lets hear some reasoning why the R420 WILL have better image quality like you seem to think. I think right now this is the bigger unknown, you may be correct, but there is no evidence to support either case at the moment.

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"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now if you look at that without fanboyism http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The X800 is said to have 16 pipelines but 12 functional. Why do they have 16 pipelines but only 12 functional?? This may very well mean you can soft mod them to make use of 16 pipelines. It may also mean they want the X800 to be the base of the X800XT so when they produce X800XT cores which don´t pass as 16 pipeline video cards they can sell them as X800:s instead of throwing them away.

Very much like how they do today with the 9800XT:s. A lot of 9800 PROs sells with R360 cores nowadays.

And how do you know ATI releases the X800XT only one month after the X800 for performance issues? You may notice that the X800XT is priced 100$ more than the X800 and for me it makes sense to release their cards when they are ready. It says nothing about the performance relative to the NV40.

Also nothing says it´s better to have forced 16 pipelines using vertex shaders like nVidia or true 12 pipelines like ATI has.

Only a fanboy can say that the NV40 will perform better or worse than the R420 without ever see a working sample of the R420 in action...

If we look on paper the NV30 totally outclassed the R300 didn´t it?

Also here is a quote from myself from this thread:

"That is yet to see really. I was a bit surprised that the 6800 ULTRA is clocked so low as for 400 MHZ on the core though against R420:s 600 Mhz. Not that it necessarily have to mean anything. The 59XX got higher clocks than the 98XX series..."

The x800 only got 500 core but still...

About the image quality. I just go under the assumption that the R420 IQ will be at least as good as the older Radeons and that if ATI don´t improve a bit makes it at least as good as the 6800 ULTRA IQ wise http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif The 6800 ULTRAs IQ has surely improved and is very much on par with the radeons only twice as fast but nVidia often sacrifices image quality for performance as they did with the 5xxx series to a further extent than ATI.

But as said those optimizations seems to be something nVidia will let the user to disable. That was one of the criterias that had to be fullfilled for me considering getting a nvidia video card again.

It can be fun to speculate as long as you know that is what you are doing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Nothing in few specs says anything about the R420 being inferior.

oeqvist
04-14-2004, 02:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lbhskier37:
Excuse me I miss spoke. The R420 coming out THIS month will have 12 pipelines. The R420 that will come out with 16 pipelines is the XT model. Like I said in my post, they are releasing the XT model only 1 months after the Pro, where-as last time they waited 6 months to release the XT model. This is why I am speculating that the NV40 is faster than the X800Pro. If it wasnt faster why wouldnt they wait 6 months like they did last time?

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Official "uber190n00b"
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To make it more clear the X800 will have 12 "functional" pipelines out of 16. Think about that you softmodders and overclockers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif It may mean you can have a X800XT for 100$ less. Also seeing that in just a month after the X800 the GPU clock will go up 100 Mhz may mean the X800 is very overclockable http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif It can be an overclockers dream really if you look at what is said about the specs http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Also nVidia is a 8 pipeline video card which can use the vertex shaders for 8 extra pipelines. I don´t know how this affects the vertex shader performance... But the Nv40 got plenty of them so perhaps they are just fine http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I envy your genious who can make up from the specs which one is faster I am quite lost really

LEBillfish
04-14-2004, 02:57 PM
My GEForce ti 4200 128mb 8x works great WITH the latest drivers just released vs. the old 45.03.......

Why change?......There will always be better if not today then tomorrow.

removed sig pic, Billfish
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VF-10_Snacky
04-14-2004, 03:02 PM
Well you cant blame the Nvidia peeps for being happy about this benchmark as wacked as it is. Nvidia has been owned by ATI for a long time now so for two weeks they are king. WooHoo.lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Son of a B**ch! That's gonna leave a mark."

essemm
04-14-2004, 03:11 PM
I think this is the stupidest thread on the board.

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Dano10
04-14-2004, 03:26 PM
1280 x 960, FSAA 4x + AF 8x/16x

6800 Ultra 40 FPS

9800XT 46 FPS


1600 x 1200, FSAA 4x + AF 8x/16x

6800 Ultra 32

9800XT 33


http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/nv40_37.html

Xbit says it might be a driver issue but comparing it to FireingSquad it doesn't make sense.

oeqvist
04-14-2004, 03:33 PM
That scores just don´t make any sense. They must have some issues really. The 6800 ULTRA should smoke all of the competition if you have a fast CPU comping it.

Dano10
04-14-2004, 03:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by oeqvist:
That scores just don´t make any sense. They must have some issues really. The 6800 ULTRA should smoke all of the competition if you have a fast CPU comping it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Athlon 64 3400+ CPU (2.20GHz, 1MB L1 cache); ASUS K8V Deluxe mainboard; OCZ PC-3200 Platinum EB DDR SDRAM (2x512MB, CL2.5-3-2-8); Seagate 7200.7 HDD (SerialATA-150, 8MB buffer); Creative SoundBlaster Audigy 2 audio card; Microsoft Windows XP Pro SP1, DirectX 9.0b; Drivers: NVIDIA ForceWare 60.72, ATI Catalyst 4.4.

? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hunter82
04-14-2004, 03:52 PM
The 6800 will also be available in multiple version. The tested version is the higher end and also carries 600 Mhz ddr3 ram but will be shipped with 550 mhz ddr3 at least that is what NV spec sheet says


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lbhskier37:
Excuse me I miss spoke. The R420 coming out THIS month will have 12 pipelines. The R420 that will come out with 16 pipelines is the XT model. Like I said in my post, they are releasing the XT model only 1 months after the Pro, where-as last time they waited 6 months to release the XT model. This is why I am speculating that the NV40 is faster than the X800Pro. If it wasnt faster why wouldnt they wait 6 months like they did last time?

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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

==============================
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==============================

lbhskier37
04-14-2004, 03:53 PM
How is the NV40 pipeline "forced" ? From all that I have read it is 16 real pipelines, the NV30 had the "forced" 8 pipelines that were really 4. And the NV30 didn't really smoke the R300 on paper, it only did if you counted it as having 8 real pipelines, which it didn't.

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Lav69
04-14-2004, 05:08 PM
What a stupid post. He is comparing a next generation Nvidia with a previous generation ATI. Big Deal.

_______________
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JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
04-14-2004, 06:00 PM
this test is realy strange...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/nv40/nv40_games_gif/il2_1600_candy.gif

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/nv40_37.html

(ATI 9800 @405Mhz-Core)

Xiolablu3
04-14-2004, 06:20 PM
The graphics card world doesnt look like this at all. Those benchmarks are taken from a PREVIEW. You can't even buy the damn card yet. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

MosDef_99th
04-14-2004, 06:33 PM
Hi......newcomer to this vid card debate,but was interested as I'm now dedicated to moving away from this GeForce2 TNT, so I definately cannot vouch for any or either of the major players,ATi or Nvidia. But in the spirit of this misleading, taunting thread title, I'm just curious as to why this chart wasn't posted;http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/nv40/nv40_games_gif/il2_1280_candy.gif


9800 pro at $194 looking even better now.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/DAR/BUC-01.jpg

BM357_TinMan
04-14-2004, 06:39 PM
I'm a staunch Nvidia guy....I think that Catalyst drivers are a pain in the neck

however,

these benchmarks give me cause for pause here.

how is it that the "old" 9800 bests the "new" 6800 w/ AA on??

What gives there?

hmm...

I might just put the effort into becoming a catalyst pro (you have to be to make those damned things work). It looks like it may be worth the effort......

S~

BM357_TinMan
xo BM357 VFG
www.bm357.com (http://www.bm357.com)

NetDaemon
04-14-2004, 06:41 PM
Nvidiot BaldieJr trolling again. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

And you guys keep on feeding him http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

My sig stays the same no matter what, FX cards still suck @ss http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif



"Friends don't let friends buy Nvidia FX cards"

Capt_Kernel
04-14-2004, 07:13 PM
What a stupid thread! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1241.gif

http://img7.photobucket.com/albums/v18/jsmuz/Spit_over_Ardennes_Region_modified.jpg

Hunter82
04-14-2004, 07:43 PM
Interesting a guy who is a self proclaimed Nvidia person can complain about the Cat drivers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. Just bustin balls

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BM357_TinMan:
I'm a staunch Nvidia guy....I think that Catalyst drivers are a pain in the neck

however,

these benchmarks give me cause for pause here.

how is it that the "old" 9800 bests the "new" 6800 w/ AA on??

What gives there?

hmm...

I might just put the effort into becoming a catalyst pro (you have to be to make those damned things work). It looks like it may be worth the effort......

S~

BM357_TinMan
xo BM357 VFG
http://www.bm357.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

Cajun76
04-14-2004, 07:44 PM
There is a thread

on this board

about the best way

to start a flame war.

Apparently, it's the ATI vs. nVidia debate, although this has been rather civil. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Relax people, you'll live longer. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Baldie's bait shop is open, and there's a rush on fish catching paraphernalia..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/bait.gif
Shamelessly stolen from OC, if it's a problem for him, it's a problem for me too.

Good hunting,
Cajun76

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/Real_35a.gif
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

Hunter82
04-14-2004, 07:47 PM
if you guys didn't know he is a master baiter I feel sorry for you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

CO_Eagle_31stFG
04-14-2004, 10:30 PM
Phife LOL before you post a chart you made you could at least make it look realistic IE Sturmovik on yours is spelled wrong http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Anyway before installing the 6800 you must buy a walk in cooler in which to run your new card because if its that good and that much faster its bound to put out alot of heat.

I can't believe this string has lasted 4 pages now

lbhskier37
04-14-2004, 10:53 PM
Actually it seems that heat isnt a problem. The fan is said to be pretty quiet. You probably would need a new powersupply, but word is that you might need one for the ATI card too.

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/pics/Killasig3.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&whereauthorid=lbhkilla&comefrom=display&ts=1049772896)
Official "uber190n00b"
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

MosDef_99th
04-14-2004, 11:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CO_Eagle_31stFG:
Phife LOL before you post a chart you made you could at least make it look realistic IE Sturmovik on yours is spelled wrong http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Haha..joke's on you; this isn't MY chart, this is one of the tests from X-bits labs where the originator of this thread pulled his charts.http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/nv40_37.html
So it ain't my spelling; ...dork http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif


If you compare it with original post u will see its same format; I only posted it to show how this troller used selective data for his bait; artificial bait, not real.

http://www.bassresearch.com/cgi-bin/image/templates/homepagebassphoto.jpg

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/DAR/BUC-01.jpg

Alexi_Alx_Anova
04-15-2004, 01:42 AM
Interesting thread. Even our forum moderator is insulting people. You should all read this book and then stand back and look at yourselves.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0241142385/ref=sr_aps_books_1_1/026-7121061-1375659

Alexi

-----------------------------
Drug of choice....coffee

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~alx_747/coffee.jpg
-----------------------------

WTE_Ibis
04-15-2004, 02:29 AM
Seeya,
flying is better than this. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1241.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Ibissix-schmile.JPG
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Ibissix-109-medium.JPG

oeqvist
04-15-2004, 05:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lbhskier37:
How is the NV40 pipeline "forced" ? From all that I have read it is 16 real pipelines, the NV30 had the "forced" 8 pipelines that were really 4. And the NV30 didn't really smoke the R300 on paper, it only did if you counted it as having 8 real pipelines, which it didn't.

http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&whereauthorid=lbhkilla&comefrom=display&ts=1049772896
Official "uber190n00b"
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It uses the vertex shader units to create those extra pipelines. Which means those vertex shaders that are used for pipelines can only do just that http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif If that is preferrable to a 12 pipeline design I don´t know. The X800 should answer that. And the X800XT should definiatly be able to answer that since that will be 16x1 too.

I don´t see a better card for the overclocker than the X800 really. I would guess it can be modded to make use of 16 pipelines. Seeing that 1 month after the X800 the GPU core will go up 100 Mhz it should indicate that the X800 is quite overclockable too. And it´s a lot cheaper than the 6800 ULTRA.

Hunter82
04-15-2004, 05:11 AM
Man I even put in a disclaimer saying I was busting(joking) these guys...this place has gotten way too weird for me....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alexi_Alx_Anova:
Interesting thread. Even our forum moderator is insulting people. You should all read this book and then stand back and look at yourselves.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0241142385/ref=sr_aps_books_1_1/026-7121061-1375659

Alexi

-----------------------------
Drug of choice....coffee

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~alx_747/coffee.jpg
-----------------------------<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

Capt.LoneRanger
04-15-2004, 05:51 AM
Right, a 200%, Lav69! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

There are comparissons going on, between a 500$ gfx-card, that will probably be released next month and a gfx-card that is 2 years old now and available for 200$.
And the nVidia is still up to 120% faster - oh, miracle!!!
Indeed, it is a miracle, after the long and straight up selling numbers of ATi over the recent years! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Until the tests on the new ATi XT are finished, nobody can say ATi is faster than nVidia or the other way round, so this is completely pointless and if anybody says nVidia is still faster than ATi and shows these values, that's pure fanboyism, nothing more.

It is also known, that ATi has made better use of their pipelines in the past and it is highly doubtable, that this advantage was negated by nVidia without a revolutionary design - which the 6800U is not.

Besides that, the big advantage of the 6800U is only visible in higher resolutions. If you play 1280x1024 max, as you can see from the pages these nice graphs are taken from, the advantage in IL2, UT2004 and titles like that is merely 5-10 FPS. Sorry, but I wont pay 300$ more for 10 FPS!

(Besides that, the final reason why I changed back to ATi was the horrible image quality of nVidia, especially in 2D.)

Capt.LoneRanger
04-15-2004, 05:59 AM
LOL - and I was just reconfirmed. Check these out!

www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/nv40/GameProblems/farcry_nv40_small.jpg] (http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/nv40/GameProblems/farcry_nv40_small.jpg])

NV40 - Farcry

www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/nv40/GameProblems/farcry_reference_small.jpg] (http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/nv40/GameProblems/farcry_reference_small.jpg])

ATi - Farcry

A big LOL on FPS!

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/7182/1703abcdefg.gif

[This message was edited by Capt.LoneRanger on Thu April 15 2004 at 05:33 AM.]

Heavy_Weather
04-15-2004, 06:32 AM
all your bases are belong to us http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

"The wise man is often the man who plays dumb."

BaldieJr
04-15-2004, 06:35 AM
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/images/image061.gif


or

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/images/image061.gif

Xbit needs to do something about thier testing procedures.

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+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

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BaldieJr
04-15-2004, 06:42 AM
Just in case you fanboys missed the begining of the thread:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_6800_ultra/images/il21024.gif
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_6800_ultra/images/il21280.gif
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_6800_ultra/images/il21600.gif
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_6800_ultra/images/lomac1024.gif
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_6800_ultra/images/lomac1280.gif
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_6800_ultra/images/lomac1600.gif

It really is too bad that ATI can't get a part ready for this 'party'. I'm sure they are working on something really nice, but its almost a waste of time at this late stage in the game.

nVidia has clearly proven itself the dominating innovator, again.

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+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

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Hunter82
04-15-2004, 06:53 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

Capt.LoneRanger
04-15-2004, 07:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> nVidia has clearly proven itself the dominating innovator, again. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At least for the time before the results of the ATi are published. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/7182/1703abcdefg.gif

BaldieJr
04-15-2004, 07:20 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Check out the 3dmark scores. Imagine what these will be like when nVidia releases a production driver.

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2004/features/geforce6800/geforce_001.jpg

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2004/features/geforce6800/geforce_002.jpg

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2004/features/geforce6800/geforce_003.jpg

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2004/features/geforce6800/geforce_004.jpg

Whats that I hear? Sounds like a very large lady singing.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

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|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

Capt.LoneRanger
04-15-2004, 07:36 AM
ROFLOL!

Yeah, and did you hear? The Mercedes F1 Car2004 is 6% FASTER than the Ferrari 2002 - Yieeepeeeee - Mercedes is FAAASTER - We'll win the championship!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/7182/1703abcdefg.gif

maxim26
04-15-2004, 07:42 AM
I dont understand whats the point to compare new nVidida card with old ATI card! This doesnt make any sence to me as a user. Firs, i'm not thet stupid to buy new card as soon as it will hit the stores. I will wait until initial prices will go down. Plus I will wait to see the reviews and banchmarks from many different saurces.

Zayets
04-15-2004, 08:03 AM
Decided to return 9800XT , got myself 200 extra euros. I wanna buy the top card nVidia/ATI when they'll come with these new cards.
BTW : 9800XT beats the crap outta my Ti4600.Tested it last night.I have to admit that I never had such a beautiful image in IL2 until now.Not sure what for driver was since I was installing from the CD supplied.But it was awesome,also in Lomac.But!I will go with nVidia though because of the Linux support.

Zayets out
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-iar80pic.jpg

CO_Eagle_31stFG
04-15-2004, 08:06 AM
New set of headphones.... $14
Your daughter says her first words...priceless
5th page over a product that isn't availiable ......amazing

BaldieJr
04-15-2004, 08:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CO_Eagle_31stFG:
New set of headphones.... $14
Your daughter says her first words...priceless
5th page over a product that isn't availiable ......amazing<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ATI fans crying "wait up!!".... ******ed.

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+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

p1ngu666
04-15-2004, 08:58 AM
given these will cost a arm&leg, whos gonna buy them anyways?
but yeah, more fps is always temptinghttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

Agamemnon22
04-15-2004, 09:07 AM
This is pointless..

Yes they came in first. They're the first to put a PS3.0 card on the market, by 3 weeks or so, and it exceeds all expectations. It's marketing.. if you're first on the market, all the Baldie's out there will buy one. Nothing wrong with it except when you get some competition. Then you pray to god that in trying to be first on the market you didn't sacrifice performance compared to the competition.

Most people can and intend to wait 3 weeks to decide which card to buy, so its pointless to be first by such a small margin. It worked with the GeForce 3's because they were like 9months ahead of their time. It's meaningless here because the bulk of sales will be made after ATi has released their PS3 cards.

I just hope that 3dmark score wasn't rigged. *cough* 3dmark-specific driver tweaks *cough*

lbhskier37
04-15-2004, 09:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by oeqvist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lbhskier37:
How is the NV40 pipeline "forced" ? From all that I have read it is 16 real pipelines, the NV30 had the "forced" 8 pipelines that were really 4. And the NV30 didn't really smoke the R300 on paper, it only did if you counted it as having 8 real pipelines, which it didn't.

http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&whereauthorid=lbhkilla&comefrom=display&ts=1049772896
Official "uber190n00b"
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It uses the vertex shader units to create those extra pipelines. Which means those vertex shaders that are used for pipelines can only do just that http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif If that is preferrable to a 12 pipeline design I don´t know. The X800 should answer that. And the X800XT should definiatly be able to answer that since that will be 16x1 too.

I don´t see a better card for the overclocker than the X800 really. I would guess it can be modded to make use of 16 pipelines. Seeing that 1 month after the X800 the GPU core will go up 100 Mhz it should indicate that the X800 is quite overclockable too. And it´s a lot cheaper than the 6800 ULTRA.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am interested in where you get tbis info about the NV40 using its vertex shader units to create more pipelines. Everywhere I read has said it has 16 pixel pipelines.

"In the table above, you can see the architectural characteristics of the NV40 series. The NV40 has 16 real Pixel Pipelines. If you recall back to the NV30, it was debuted as having 8 Pixel Pipelines, but in fact that was exaggerated. In regular use the NV30 series acts as a 4x2 video card and only in special situations, like those of Z stencil rendering only, will it became an 8 Pixel Pipeline card. The NV40 is what you would call a "16x1" or "32x0" architecture. What this means is that in single texture rendering it is capable of 16 single textures per clock. However, if doing Z-stencil rendering, like shadows for example, which don't need texture rendering, it will perform 32 pixels per clock. That gives this GPU an enormous amount of fill-rate and Z-stencil rendering power. If doing two textures per pixel, it is able to achieve 8 pixels per clock."--Hardocp

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/pics/Killasig3.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&whereauthorid=lbhkilla&comefrom=display&ts=1049772896)
Official "uber190n00b"
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

noshens
04-15-2004, 09:12 AM
GeForce 6800 Ultra will cost $399 and 6800 (not ultra) $299

Which is a good deal for a new release product.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
given these will cost a arm&leg, whos gonna buy them anyways?
but yeah, more fps is always temptinghttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bearcat99
04-15-2004, 09:22 AM
When the 9800Pro first came out it @ 6 months ago it was $399.. the NP was $299.. I got my 9800Pro for $199 about a month ago.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
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lbhskier37
04-15-2004, 09:26 AM
yeah, but the 256mb 9800Pro was 499, so was the FX5900Ultra I believe. I was kinda surprised at the price of the super-high end model. But you have to take into account the fact that you will probably need a new powersupply. Unless ofcource your Hunter, something tells me he already has more than a 480W supplyhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/pics/Killasig3.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&whereauthorid=lbhkilla&comefrom=display&ts=1049772896)
Official "uber190n00b"
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

Korolov
04-15-2004, 09:47 AM
Maybe instead of looking over all the 40+ FPS increases in the next generation video cards that cost 600 bucks, you should find yourself a $150 card that runs FB fine and give the remaining $450 to me. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

BaldieJr
04-15-2004, 10:14 AM
Does anyone know if ATI plans to actually move to .13 micron this time, or if they are just going to scale thier crap again?

I mean, they charge pretty high for 5-year old technology. I never understood how you goofs can justify the cost of ATI products that don't use todays manufacturing techniques.

Oh sure, the 9800 are a bit faster, and a bit cheaper, but ATI does so much to stagnate the advancement of technology (in the name of profit), that you'd think most would be boycotting thier over-priced products. But then again, people who just want to play games don't care about the 'behind the scenes' goings ons. They just look at the fastest benchmarks and make thier purchasing decisions based on what they see.

Oh look at those 6800 Ultra benchmarks! Again, where are ATIs?

End noogie.

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|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

Cajun76
04-15-2004, 10:26 AM
ATI is just letting nVidia get that last breath before they pull them under and bite'em in half..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/bait.gif
That'll be a cup of worms, and a couple of spinners, please.......... Plastic............. Got change for a twenty? Have a nice day. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/Real_35a.gif
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

lbhskier37
04-15-2004, 10:26 AM
Sorry baldie, that is a real blatant bit of fanboyishness http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ATI doesnt make more money by using an old process. By using an old process their chips are bigger, so less fit on a given wafer. They get charged by the foundry per wafer, not per chip, so using an old process increases their cost per chip. And who cares what manufacturing techniques they use? Does it affect us in any way? As long as the chip doesnt cost a fortune or act like a furnace from being so big, who cares?

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BaldieJr
04-15-2004, 10:47 AM
If its no big deal to move from .15 to .13, why didn't ATI do it? Why did nVidia waste an entire product cycle on it?

Because for ATI it was far cheaper to stick with .15 and just scale pipelines.

Because nVidia knew they could catch up to ATI with just raw speed.

Now nVidia has both raw speed and parrallel pipelines. Do you think ATI will be able to match this? I think not.

If you guys think I'm a fanboy, thats fine with me. Unlike a typical fanboy, I bring facts to my arguments, and have enough 'game history' to know who's a dirty-dog and who's making solid investments into future technologies.

ATI's new part wont be able to keep pace. They saw a chance to "take the money and run" and took it, just as they always have.

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|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

Agamemnon22
04-15-2004, 10:58 AM
Baldie: ATi isn't stagnating anything. There is no sense in going to .13 if .15 works just fine, as it seems to. Nvidia went to .13 and look what happened: the FX series flopped. Did it have anything to do with the process? not really... because the logic of the chip wasn't as good. That's where ATi's focus is, better logic. They've always been finding new ways to do more per cycle than Nvidia, successfully I might add. Ever wonder why ATi's AA costs essentially nothing performanc-wise? They were also the first to develop smart occluded polygon removal and in general their chips seemed in the past to beat out GeForces while running lower clock speeds, meaning they do more work per cycle.

So if anything, Nvidia's been playing catch up with logic technology, while looking for ways to squeeze a few more cycles per sec from their existing chips.

Rogodin
04-15-2004, 11:04 AM
If it turns out that the 6800 costs the same as a X800 with the same or better fps with equivalent IQ then I might think about it.

BUT-to make conclusions based on one set of shoddy benchmarks of a card that isn't released is both idotic (I'm calling Baldie and IDIOT here) and immature.

I don't usually call people names but Baldie has been an IDiot for a long time on these boards (has never had an ATI card in his rig either)-so I suggest that you take his posts as you took RJB's posts-ammusing inanities http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Rogo

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-12/554733/RogoSig-1c.jpg


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards, but I look downwards for I am the exalted."
Thus Spake Zarathustra.

Zayets
04-15-2004, 11:33 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Zayets out
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-iar80pic.jpg

Capt.LoneRanger
04-15-2004, 12:07 PM
OMG http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

THIS :
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I mean, they charge pretty high for 5-year old technology. I never understood how you goofs can justify the cost of ATI products that don't use todays manufacturing techniques.

Oh sure, the 9800 are a bit faster, and a bit cheaper, but ATI does so much to stagnate the advancement of technology (in the name of profit), that you'd think most would be boycotting thier over-priced products. But then again, people who just want to play games don't care about the 'behind the scenes' goings ons. They just look at the fastest benchmarks and make thier purchasing decisions based on what they see. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...is the most stupid thing I've ever read in this forum - and I've seen RBJ's posts around here.

YOU are the one praising FPS over image quality and AA/FSAA.
YOU are the one buying nVidia stuff - completely overclocked for years and forget about that glory-story about the production clycle they simply left out, because they wanted to make something good.

Sorry, Baldie, but you just outed yourself as being an absolute fanboy, the worst I've seen here for a long time. You're absolute narrow minded and can't see anything beyond your favourite brand. THAT is, what the TWIWMTBP-bull****-campaign from nVidia was aiming at - people stupid enough to compare FPS, yet NEVER, EVER testing an ATi.
I'm not saying you should throw away your nVidia and buy ATi, but your point of view is ignorant at best.

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/7182/1703abcdefg.gif

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
04-15-2004, 12:25 PM
hey guy's checkt it out:

they are comparing the Shader-Quality with Far-Cry.

http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-46.html

and this shows the FSAA:

http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-43.html

interessting that the NV40 (ULTRA!) is dropping performance quite heavy using 8xFSAA (meaning the step from 4x to 8x)

looks like a logic error....(as always)

BaldieJr
04-15-2004, 12:28 PM
Yeah, calling someone names is a good way to win your argument.

Anyone want to buy an ATI card? I still have the last one I purchased... its still sitting in a static bag on top of my bookshelf (hasn't moved since the LAST TIME I mentioned it on this forum).

Fanboys come in all shapes and sizes, but few of them are as informed as I.

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|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

Capt.LoneRanger
04-15-2004, 12:38 PM
Agreed, ToP_BlackSheep.

It's nice to see such a renown hardware-reviewer finally taking a look at the 6800U.

As they said, the speed is impressive, the quality still lacks, compared to the 9800XT. I have no doubt, nVidia has made a big step in the right direction, but it is still behind a 2 year old gfx-card in terms of image quality. I cannot understand, why they still prefer FPS over shader and image quality?

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/7182/1703abcdefg.gif

Agamemnon22
04-15-2004, 12:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Fanboys come in all shapes and sizes, but few of them are as informed as I.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hah http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BaldieJr
04-15-2004, 01:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ToP_BlackSheep:
hey guy's checkt it out:

they are comparing the Shader-Quality with Far-Cry.

http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-46.html

and this shows the FSAA:

http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-43.html

interessting that the NV40 (ULTRA!) is dropping performance quite heavy using 8xFSAA (meaning the step from 4x to 8x)

looks like a logic error....(as always)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Nice lead-off, thanks.

Continuing your education Capt.....

http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/images/image061.gif

Now LOOK at the IQ section and compare the pictures. Color gradients? Thats all you have?
What are you going to be saying when FarCry actually does take advantage of nv40 ( the article clearly states "However, with the current driver, the 6800 U was detected as PS1.1/2.0 hardware by the game, just like the FX 5950 U and the 9800XT.")?

Read the articles. Please READ THE ARTICLES. I'm getting tired of pointing out obvious flaws in your deductions.


"Again, despite having 4x FSAA and 8x anisotropic filtering enabled, the 6800 Ultra is a almost two times faster than its rivals."


I still don't see ATI's part.

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+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

Nub_322Sqn
04-15-2004, 01:31 PM
Tom's hardware guide, LMAO.

I have read the best BS there over the years though, thank goodness there are far better hardware sites on then net.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rcma/banners/Nubarusbanner.jpg

lbhskier37
04-15-2004, 01:38 PM
Aight, I think I'm bowing out of this conversation, this was at one time a civil discussion of graphics stuff(well as civil as graphics discussions ever get). One thing everyone here needs to remember is none of these companies give a sh!t about you. All they care about is profit, ATI, Nvidia, Intel, AMD, Chevy, Ford. The only thing they care about you is that you keep giving them money. For me that means I will give money to whoever is doing the best thing at any give time. Last summer when I needed a card I went ATI cause it was the best, I went with Intel this fall cause it was the best, before that I had a GF3 and an XP1800 cause it was the best. In the future, who knows, maybe Matrox will get thier head out their butt and make something useful. But in the end none of these companies is going to be my buddy so I am not going to blindly stand by them.

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CaptainGelo
04-15-2004, 01:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cajun76:
There is a thread

on this board

about the best way

to start a flame war.

Apparently, it's the ATI vs. nVidia debate, although this has been rather civil. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Relax people, you'll live longer. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Baldie's bait shop is open, and there's a rush on fish catching paraphernalia..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/bait.gif
Shamelessly stolen from OC, if it's a problem for him, it's a problem for me too.

Good hunting,
Cajun76

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/Real_35a.gif
What if there were no hypothetical questions?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Told ya http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif
"Big Bills suck, small Bills don't"&lt;----WRONG!!!! all Bills suck http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BaldieJr
04-15-2004, 01:51 PM
I'm tired of it myself.

A few months ago I got bashed for prefering nVidia primarly because thier framerates were low.

Then I was getting based for prefering nVidia primarily because thier IQ wasn't the best (even though framerates were often equal).

Now I'm getting bashed just for preferring nVidia.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

I can't wait to get my 6800 Ultra and try out FB, The Way It Was Meant To Be Played.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

lbhskier37
04-15-2004, 02:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
I'm tired of it myself.



[/code]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
selective reading? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

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Nub_322Sqn
04-15-2004, 02:03 PM
And the amazing thing here is that everybody else is a fanboy except Baldie.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rcma/banners/Nubarusbanner.jpg

Nub_322Sqn
04-15-2004, 02:07 PM
And you get Bashed so much not for your preference but because of the way you bring it Baldie.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rcma/banners/Nubarusbanner.jpg

BaldieJr
04-15-2004, 02:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lbhskier37:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
I'm tired of it myself.



[/code]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
selective reading? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Huh?

I'm tired of the thread also. Getting called an idiot isn't exactly a lot of fun.

Having people read FACT and then claim your a fanboy isn't much fun either.

So, I said I'm tired of the thread. I don't quite understand why I get one of these --&gt; http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

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+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

KGr.HH-Sunburst
04-15-2004, 02:48 PM
ok so when is this 6800ultra hitting the shelfs ?
how far is ATI behind ? not that much
so get your pre orders ready run to the stores and get your allmighty 6800ultra + plus a nice 480watt PSU if you dont have one.
how much is a good 480watt PSU ? lets say $100
plus the new toy is gonna cost you some money http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

oh and all the sudden there is ATI with an equal performing videocard wich doesnt need no 480watt PSU and will be somewhat cheaper
pack your bags the war is over http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

http://www.freewebs.com/fightingpumas/
http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94/sunburst/sig-97th.jpg

Capt.LoneRanger
04-15-2004, 02:56 PM
Baldie, your still not getting the point here.

You know, nobody says it's a bad gfx-card. Nobody CAN say it's slow. That is simply not the point here.

The point is: nVidia cought up to a gfx-card in terms of graphix-quality to a product that is on the market for 2 years, now, and costs half the money the new 6800U will cost.
It is a lot faster, yes, and that is an achievement, no doubt. But you can't be serious pointing out that this gfx-card beats ATi by length and then pointing to a gfx-card that is 2 years old. If ATI had done the same comparrison, you would have had a TNT2 compared to an ATi9800pro. And what is that supposed to say?

If the comparrison is infact a reason for you to sell your current gfx-card right away and buy that baby, that's perfectly fine. But don't blame people here for keeping an open mind or calling peoples names, who are waiting for a comparrison of 2 competative pieces of hardware, not falling to the cheap advertisements and earlier release of their product, without a competitor on the market.

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/7182/1703abcdefg.gif

crazyivan1970
04-15-2004, 03:04 PM
You sure can gather a crowd Baldie, can`t take that away from you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

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http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

lbhskier37
04-15-2004, 03:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sunburst-97th:
ok so when is this 6800ultra hitting the shelfs ?
how far is ATI behind ? not that much
so get your pre orders ready run to the stores and get your allmighty 6800ultra + plus a nice 480watt PSU if you dont have one.
how much is a good 480watt PSU ? lets say $100
plus the new toy is gonna cost you some money http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

oh and all the sudden there is ATI with an equal performing videocard wich doesnt need no 480watt PSU and will be somewhat cheaper
pack your bags the war is over http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

http://www.freewebs.com/fightingpumas/
http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94/sunburst/sig-97th.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rumor is that the ATI card is probably going to need the new PSU also. Its seeming like the price we are gonna pay to get a GPU with a die size bigger than the P4 Extreme edition.

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"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

Nub_322Sqn
04-15-2004, 03:06 PM
I got a 550 Watt PSU already so bring it on.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rcma/banners/Nubarusbanner.jpg

NetDaemon
04-15-2004, 03:07 PM
From FiringSquad`s GF6800Ultra review:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>At the higher setting, the new cooler is loud, but not FX Flow loud. Whereas FX Flow's motor contributed to a lot of the fan's noise, this isn't the case for the 6800 Ultra's cooler. Instead the noise you hear is the whooshing sound of air moving at a very high velocity (I'll update the article with MP3s once I get back from Toronto Brandon). In other words, it's a loud noise, but not nearly as annoying as FX Flow was.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So Dustbuster Mark II debuted yesterday. :big yawn:

I just love the way Nvidia brings innovation into this industry, like last year`s creative way of bringing the electronics video and dust busting industries together in one product, the GeforceFX 5800Ultra a.k.a. DustBuster Mark I. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

And I also remember it being a good 3 months first into the market before the Radeon 9800pro. And we know how that helped Nvidia sell billions of 5800Ultras (not!) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Well, if Nvidia gets beaten by ATI again, at least they have an alternative market available for them: the ever growing dust busting industry http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



"Friends don't let friends buy Nvidia FX cards"

lbhskier37
04-15-2004, 03:18 PM
Selective reading on the Nvidiot side, followed by selective quoting on the fanATIic side.

"Fortunately this new cooler is not a reprise of FX Flow. While the fan does operate in two modes, we never ran into a situation where the card's fan ran at the higher mode other than during system bootup.

At the higher setting, the new cooler is loud, but not FX Flow loud. Whereas FX Flow's motor contributed to a lot of the fan's noise, this isn't the case for the 6800 Ultra's cooler. Instead the noise you hear is the whooshing sound of air moving at a very high velocity (I'll update the article with MP3s once I get back from Toronto Brandon). In other words, it's a loud noise, but not nearly as annoying as FX Flow was.

The moderate setting is much more bearable. It's still louder than RADEON 9800 XT and GeForce FX 5950 Ultra, but not loud enough to be distracting. The card's fan never went above the moderate setting, even during extended testing sessions, and the 6800 Ultra board actually runs cooler than 5950 Ultra (a trait which really surprised us) so we don't think the fan's noise will become an issue unless you're overclocking. We'll provide more in-depth analysis of the new cooler and overclocking the board in a follow-up article."--firingsquad

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Xiolablu3
04-15-2004, 05:57 PM
Well, Ill keep pottering along using my 25 Radeon 8500 and let some of you daft people spend $500 to get those 'perfect' settings.

Then I'll buy your card off you on ebay in a years time when its lost 3/4 of its value http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Charos
04-15-2004, 06:20 PM
So where can I buy one of these Ultra High Performance GO-229's Errr I mean GF6800Ultra?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Sliceback
04-15-2004, 11:35 PM
Well lets just see if bladie can still strut and crow when ATI releases next month.

One note: ATI will not put up a jump as large as nVidia just did... ATI should put out a comparable product and be within a few FPS or ahead by a few FPS in all the benchmarks.

Now, after reading all the press for the last 3 days I see that nVidia went to 220 million transistors, a minimum requirement for a 480 watt PS AND 2 4 pin molex connectors to power it.

That is all fine IF you have 2 leads that have NO other peripherals on them. All reviews have noted this is a problem. Frankly ATI might have similar power needs and in a month we'll know. Hopefully in a month we'll have an answer for those who opt to buy this admitedly kick-butt nVidia card.

baldie can you run the new nVidia right now (if you had one)?

Also, this is classic nVidia: A PAPER LAUNCH. I want to see what the availability of both cards is in 6 weeks to see who really even had a launch.

Another item baldie:
nbVidia is not manufactureing the NV40. IBM is manufactuering it for them so don't crow about 130 nm process. Process and the technology behind it is only good if it produces. It is for this card. That was not the case for the 5800 (same process). Intel is also seeing in the 90 mn process for the Prescott is not all they had envisioned. Remember the manufacturing process is a means to an end.

If any company that makes a card/chip that is at least equal to their compitition, less power hungy, cooler, and yet makes it on an older process could have quite a higher profit margin or better price or more $$ for R&D to figure out the next latest and greatest.

Remember all compitition benefits us consumers. I'm glad nVidia raised the bar. If they were still floundering then ATI would need to release only the next incremental improvement. Now they are forced to unleash a superior product.

oeqvist
04-16-2004, 05:31 AM
Well what says ATI can´t make such a jump as the NV40. You all know that the release dates of the NV40 and X800 is the same date?? Though I have the feeling that ATI is planning for the X800XT to compete against the 6800 ULTRA but couldn´t complete it in a month so if I guess yes the NV40 will be the performance leader for at least a month.

And yes nVidia seem to finally be on the right track again. Forgetting about high GPU clocks and concentrating on bandwidth and shader performance. All the strong points of ATI really. That and nVidia uses ATI:s rotating grid aa, and ATI:s "no cheating" filtering and shader optimizations http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I am a bit disappointed that nvidia adopted ATI:s anisotrophic filtering too the 5900 series anisotrophic was actually quite good but I guess the performance hit was too large.

So yes nVidia has made all the right moves it´s just a matter if it´s enough. May very possible be. I think the battle will be as hard as ever really.

the 26th of April we should have a good hint and 31 may we should know who is the new king on the block if there is a new king or not.

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
04-16-2004, 07:29 AM
My last post in this topic:

Well we all want good IQ if we use high Qualitiy settings in a game, right ?

So i can tell u if i lower my Resolution to 640*480 and disable FSAA and Antisitropic filtering i can run FB with about 80 FPS in the middle. wow that would be realy smooth wouldn't it ?

But no one want this.
Why?
There are verry much FPS! so why not?

Because it sux.

So we are going to raise resolution and use FSAA & stuff, to get better IQ.
And the Shader, even if it is "only" 2.0 will make the game looks much better(since AEP the perfekt water realy looks cool).

I'm just confused that there are still errors in the Shader of the nVidia 6800.

See, i own a TI4200 and i have Shader errors there too (color erros in Perfekt just like the ones in the pictures)

I have no problem with the overall performance of the NV40 but i consider "color erros" to be smal problems, so why haven't they fixed them jet ?
they had plenty of time (from TI to NV40).

It leaves a strange picture, on one hand you have extreamly high FPS on the other you have color-erros!!

that's what i'm wondering about!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ToP_BlackSheep:
hey guy's checkt it out:

they are comparing the Shader-Quality with Far-Cry.

http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-46.html

and this shows the FSAA:

http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-43.html

interessting that the NV40 (ULTRA!) is dropping performance quite heavy using 8xFSAA (meaning the step from 4x to 8x)

looks like a logic error....(as always)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Nice lead-off, thanks.

Continuing your education Capt.....

http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/images/image061.gif

Now LOOK at the IQ section and compare the pictures. Color gradients? Thats all you have?
What are you going to be saying when FarCry actually does take advantage of nv40 ( the article clearly states _"However, with the current driver, the 6800 U was detected as PS1.1/2.0 hardware by the game, just like the FX 5950 U and the 9800XT."_)?

Read the articles. Please READ THE ARTICLES. I'm getting tired of pointing out obvious flaws in your deductions.

__
"Again, despite having 4x FSAA and 8x anisotropic filtering enabled, the 6800 Ultra is a almost two times faster than its rivals."
__

I still don't see ATI's part.

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BaldieJr
04-16-2004, 08:29 AM
More misinformation. It just keeps going on and on.

I don't see color 'errors'. I see banding, which you have to really look for. Its not something I'll notice while flying around, scoring points at will ( http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif )

I did read several remarks from reviewers who pointed out that ATI's AA was not working properly, when compared to nVidias. Some edges don't even get AA'ed for some odd reason. Probably more of those infamous ATI short-cuts that noone wants to discuss.

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Lunix
04-16-2004, 09:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
The point is: nVidia cought up to a gfx-card in terms of graphix-quality to a product that is on the market for 2 years, now, and costs half the money the new 6800U will cost.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The comparison was to the 9800XT which came out a couple months ago.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It is a lot faster, yes, and that is an achievement, no doubt. But you can't be serious pointing out that this gfx-card beats ATi by length and then pointing to a gfx-card that is 2 years old. If ATI had done the same comparrison, you would have had a TNT2 compared to an ATi9800pro. And what is that supposed to say?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its the same thing as the 9700 release. They compared it to the fastest nvidia card out at the time, the ti4600, and we were awed. Those shots were taken using PS1.1 which the game developers made run on NVIDIA cards because their old cards were so slow with PS2.0. This has nothing to do with the 6800 image quality and is something NVIDIA has no control over.

If you are crying for a apples to apples comparison your image quality argument holds no grounds as it is PS1.1 vs PS2.0 on ATI's hardware.

Since we are on the topic. The 6800 supports PS3.0 and so will FarCry by the time the 6800 hits the streets. According to multiple reports the image quality is far superior to PS2.0 AND it runs much faster. Since Neither the 9800XT or the future X800XT support PS3.0 NVIDIA will definately win on IQ in FarCry hands down.

http://members.shaw.ca/corn/il2sig2.jpg

oeqvist
04-16-2004, 09:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lunix:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
The point is: nVidia cought up to a gfx-card in terms of graphix-quality to a product that is on the market for 2 years, now, and costs half the money the new 6800U will cost.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The comparison was to the 9800XT which came out a couple months ago.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It is a lot faster, yes, and that is an achievement, no doubt. But you can't be serious pointing out that this gfx-card beats ATi by length and then pointing to a gfx-card that is 2 years old. If ATI had done the same comparrison, you would have had a TNT2 compared to an ATi9800pro. And what is that supposed to say?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its the same thing as the 9700 release. They compared it to the fastest nvidia card out at the time, the ti4600, and we were awed. Those shots were taken using PS1.1 which the game developers made run on NVIDIA cards because their old cards were so slow with PS2.0. This has nothing to do with the 6800 image quality and is something NVIDIA has no control over.

If you are crying for a apples to apples comparison your image quality argument holds no grounds as it is PS1.1 vs PS2.0 on ATI's hardware.

Since we are on the topic. The 6800 supports PS3.0 and so will FarCry by the time the 6800 hits the streets. According to multiple reports the image quality is far superior to PS2.0 AND it runs much faster. Since Neither the 9800XT or the future X800XT support PS3.0 NVIDIA will definately win on IQ in FarCry hands down.

http://members.shaw.ca/corn/il2sig2.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lunix the Far Cry comparison was with the 6800 ULTRA running in PS 2.0 and 1.1 mode exactly like the 9800XT. What made it suffer image quality wise is with 95 % certainty that nVidia hasn´t been able to remove all the shader optimizations the 5900 owners suffers from.

It´s running the exact same rendering mode as the 9800XT. There will be a future patch for the 6800 ULTRA to enable some extra shader functions. However those aren´t limited to Shadermodel 3.0. Most of then can be applied to PS 2.0 video cards too if they recon they have the performance for it. The difference between the shader model 2.0 and 3.0 is mainly that 3.0 support infinite programme length for the shaders.

But it will be interesting to see what it can do. There is some comparisons out for Far Cry but somehow they seem to have stacked a Geforce 4 MX or something against the 6800 ULTRA so it´s not really a very good comparison.

But you have to take into consideration that the NV40 isn´t out yet and it still uses beta drivers so we don´t see all the glory of the NV40 just yet.

About AA yes 9/10 reviewers likes ATI:s better. About anisotrophic 9/10 reviewers give NV40 the slight edge over the 9800XT.

But as said it will take some months after the R420 and NV40 is out to be able to make some valid comparisons.

BaldieJr
04-16-2004, 09:32 AM
I'm sorry... What? I just disregarded everything you said when you mentioned the 4MX comparison.

http://www.hwupgrade.it/articoli/1004/fc_4.gif

Jeez people. Can we please STOP making things up now?

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BaldieJr
04-16-2004, 09:35 AM
In exchange for very minor banding, I'll take this:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_6800_ultra/images/farcry1600aa.gif

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BaldieJr
04-16-2004, 09:44 AM
Image quality is subjective, at best, but this kind of says something:

5950 Ultra
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_6800_ultra/images/lomacnv38.png

6800 Ultra
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_6800_ultra/images/lomacnv40.png

9800 XT
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_6800_ultra/images/lomacati.png

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ZG77_Nagual
04-16-2004, 10:03 AM
Keep in mind this is what Nvid did last time - blow a monster card out the door form maximum$$$ as soon as possible - then get mashed by ATI. The most exciting thing about this is what it'll do to the prices of existing high-end cards. I don't like Nvidia's marketing strategy myself - their products have allways been pretty good (see 5600 - NOT) but they have not handled real competition all that well. Be interesting to see if the pattern holds out.

BaldieJr
04-16-2004, 10:08 AM
Look at what I found.... Toms Hardware actually tested the POWER REQUIREMENTS of all these uber cards.


"Basically, ATi's Radeon 9800XT and NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5950 have very similar power requirements, although the ATi card proves to be just a touch more economical. The GeForce 6800 Ultra, on the other hand, obviously enjoys taking a good swig from the power socket, but less than one might originally expect upon seeing the dual aux power connectors. In the end, the new card draws about 24 Watts more than its predecessor."

So now we can let the power-supply whines die too. Yay.

EDITED: Removed graphs, pasted the proper piece of text.
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[This message was edited by BaldieJr on Fri April 16 2004 at 09:16 AM.]

lbhskier37
04-16-2004, 11:42 AM
A 24 Watt increase is pretty big. Especially if you are running with a Presshott cpu already. You will still need a new PSU, but you probably will with the ATI card too, unless they worked some miracles with their .13 process getting the 180+million transistors powered is still gonna need lots of juice.

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lbhskier37
04-16-2004, 11:44 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I thought my sig was within the limits, crap now this will be up for the next 3 days until I can get home and fix it

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Sliceback
04-16-2004, 02:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Look at what I found.... Toms Hardware actually tested the POWER REQUIREMENTS of all these uber cards.


_"Basically, ATi's Radeon 9800XT and NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5950 have very similar power requirements, although the ATi card proves to be just a touch more economical. The GeForce 6800 Ultra, on the other hand, obviously enjoys taking a good swig from the power socket, but less than one might originally expect upon seeing the dual aux power connectors. In the end, the new card draws about 24 Watts more than its predecessor."_

So now we can let the power-supply whines die too. Yay.

EDITED: Removed graphs, pasted the proper piece of text.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not really. Wake up dude: you still need 2 molex connectors on 2 free rails. How many rails does you PS even have? HOW MANY OF THOSE ARE FREE?

oeqvist
04-16-2004, 02:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
I'm sorry... What? I just disregarded everything you said when you mentioned the 4MX comparison.

http://www.hwupgrade.it/articoli/1004/fc_4.gif

Jeez people. Can we please STOP making things up now?

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Baldie JR if you just could come out of your little corner you could evolve into an informed hardware enthusiast instead of a limited nvidia fanboy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

And about the LOMAC screenshots why do you want to pick that game to show the NV40:s superiority. Why not wait until nVidia has had time to remove all optimizations from it and Far Cry before praising the 6800 ULTRA:s image quality? In the 6800 ULTRAS current beta state drivers the image quality isn´t really better than the 9800 XT:s. This is not because of the 6800 ULTRAS inferior design. The NV40 sure has the ability of rendering as good images as the 9800XT yet being much much faster.

But that isn´t the case today so why pretending? I mean when you even clearly can see in screenshots that the 9800XT aa currently do a better job and filtering are just about on par with the 9800 XT. And as you have seen Far Cry in it´s current state with the 6800 ULTRA don´t look good at all. But that is with beta drivers that will change but that is still in the future. And that would make it invalid to take in here since you want to compare the not released NV40 against the 9800 XT or NV35 right http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And look in the Far Cry forums that is about the best place to see what the NV40:s shaders can do since that is about the first game that will utilize it.

From a person that has seen it on a PR meeting it sound really promising indeed. But in it´s current states the IQ of the 6800 ULTRA isn´t very impressive. on par with a 2 year old 9700 PRO really...

But as said BETA drivers still suffering from the 59XX optimizations.

HarryVoyager
04-16-2004, 05:34 PM
Wow, and I was actually excited about the performance of the 6800 before I was slapped in the face with it. Way to make friends and influence people Baldie.

Remind me again why I came back to this forum?

Harry Voyager

Lunix
04-16-2004, 11:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by oeqvist:
...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Inteligent and civil replies. S! I still think from the screenshots that ATI's gamma corrected AA is the best. PS 3.0 does add improvements beyond extra instruction length. If instruction length was all there would be nothing to fuss about as ATI's F-buffer allows for unlimited instructions. With FarCry in PS3.0 mode they will be using displacement mapping rather than just bumpmapping giving flat textures real geometry rather than just the appearance of it.

I find this current hardware race to be fascinating. I think NVIDIA has scored on this round. Being able to pull 100% FPS improvments over the current top end cards is nothing to snear at. In fact thay have assured that ATI can definately not pull ahead in the feature department and can not pull far ahead in the speed department as they will be very CPU limited to pull higher FPS.

http://members.shaw.ca/corn/il2sig2.jpg

TooCooL34
04-17-2004, 12:40 AM
It's just happy race. Don't anyone get upset.

Comparing 6800 to 9800xt is normal, cause 9800 is the king in current market.
They'll do Nvid-vs-Nvid if Nvid card ruled at this time.

Anyway, where's S3 Volari? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

-----------------

=815=TooCooL34,=815=Squadron

-= 8 1 5 =- FB Dedi Server is coming soon. (with AEP Dedicated Server)
100Mb IDC line, P4 2.8G server.
Full real but limited icon, minimap path and spdbar.
You can expect something, since I run the server myself. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BaldieJr
04-17-2004, 07:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HarryVoyager:
Wow, and I was actually excited about the performance of the 6800 before I was slapped in the face with it. Way to make friends and influence people Baldie.

Remind me again why I came back to this forum?

Harry Voyager<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Make it personal if you must.

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ELITE1499
04-17-2004, 08:49 AM
Very similar were all the prayers which the Cossacks wrote down and concealed under their shirts, tying them to the strings of the litle ikons blessed by their mothers and to the little bundles of their native earth. But death came upon all alike, upon those who wrote down the prayers also. Their bodies rotted on the fields of Galicia and East Prussia, in the Carpathians and Rumania, wherever the ruddy flames of war flickered and the tracks of Cossack horses were imprinted in the earth.

mcarruthers
04-17-2004, 10:49 AM
9800 is really old now compared to the new GeForce and how are we suppose to know if these were on OpenGl or DirectX as if DirectX nVidia would easily win because thats what they're cards are designed for so change it to open gl/direct X then show us the results

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oeqvist
04-17-2004, 10:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ELITE1499:
Very similar were all the prayers which the Cossacks wrote down and concealed under their shirts, tying them to the strings of the litle ikons blessed by their mothers and to the little bundles of their native earth. But death came upon all alike, upon those who wrote down the prayers also. Their bodies rotted on the fields of Galicia and East Prussia, in the Carpathians and Rumania, wherever the ruddy flames of war flickered and the tracks of Cossack horses were imprinted in the earth.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Someone call 911 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

lbhskier37
04-17-2004, 11:09 AM
Im pretty sure the IL2 benchmarks are using OpenGL because they say they have all the goodies turned on, cant do that in DX mode.

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