PDA

View Full Version : AC Syndicate and the weight on its shoulders



VoXngola
05-16-2015, 08:58 PM
Everyone has different opinions. This very forum can show you that. For example, some love AC 3, some hate it. But there's also a majority of people who hold the same opinion, the general consensus. And to be brutally honest, the general consensus in the gaming community is that AC as a series has arrived in a really bad situation. Sales are still good, but have been declining since AC3. AC unity is THE game in the series that probaly had the biggest, negative impact. But this time it's not like with AC3. It's different because Unity's "blow" hit much harder then the one AC3 delivered. It's also because of Ubisoft themselves, 2014 was a trainwreck for them.

The annual releases, franchise fatigue, the release of "only ok" games year after year. After Syndicate's reveal, you just have to open your eyes. There are only a handful of people even interested in this game.

If you ask me Syndicate holds the entire franchise's weight on its shoulders. Yes, they said pre alpha, but we all know that this is Ubisoft we are talking about. The footage they showed was not convincing, not in the slightest. People are already complaining about Victorian London, a setting that used to be one of the most popular ones for AC, simply because it looks so samey to Paris in Unity.

This is it. The crossroads. Syndicate has to absolutely ROCK. It can have similar gameplay and visuals, but it can still impress with everything else. Games consist of more things than just these 2, and lets be honest. AC was never loved for its gameplay. This is not the draw for the franchise.

Syndicate. You either rock and make people fall in love with you, no matter how. Be it because you are an amazing AC game or an amazing gangster game set in VL (like with AC4 with pirates). Or you fail and just end up being a slightly better Unity at best and make people completely lose hope. It's all on you.

This is my view in Syndicate and the future of AC. What do YOU think? Will Syndicate decide everything? Or will Syndicate not matter much and extend AC's life until "that game that will decide the fate of the series" eventually comes around?

ze_topazio
05-16-2015, 09:22 PM
Even if it fails, next year they announce Japan and lots of people will go bananas, I've seen people all over the place saying they no longer care about the franchise but would open an exception for feudal Japan, then the Japanese game is average too, after that they use a couple more popular settings, eventually they will run out of popular settings and that's when they will need to rely on actual quality.

Daanage
05-16-2015, 09:22 PM
Sadly it doesn't matter what we think. I've been playing since AC1 release, and i completely agree with you this franchise is dying. But we fans are only a small slice of the huge customerbase, and as long as millions of people are buying AC for their family, friends etc, the games will continue to suck and still sell huge numbers. There's not gonna be a person at Ubisoft who says hey, let's try not to appeal to the masses but instead make a true Assassins Creed that mostly the fans will dig.

Shahkulu101
05-16-2015, 09:24 PM
It's only a video game.

VoXngola
05-16-2015, 09:35 PM
Dumb post by me here, sry.

Shahkulu101
05-16-2015, 09:52 PM
Dumb post by me here, sry.

It's not dumb, I'm just being an ***.

It does seem like a make or break moment for the series. Unity really tarnished AC's already delicate reputation, has the worst metacritc score and was lambasted by fans for pretty much everything. I don't consider it as such, but it's the lowest of the low for the series for most people. Syndicate needs to rejuvenate the series or people will lose interest. It will always sell well but I think they have some pride and want the series to be highly regarded. At least, the actual developers do.

I'm confident it will be a decent game to be honest, but if it's disappointing I don't think it will end the series. Because there's so many of them made, there will always be an AC that comes along and surprises people like AC4 did.

Charles_Phipps
05-16-2015, 09:59 PM
Black Flag sold 11 million copies.

Tombraider's reboot sold 3.4 million before re-release.

Other games should BEG to be declining like AC.

Altair1789
05-16-2015, 10:10 PM
I think for most, including me, Syndicate is their last chance. And it is HUGE to me that Victorian London doesn't look so much like Unity. However, it may just be that district. I've spent most of my time in Unity in the industrial district at that time of day where the sky looks ugly, and I've gotten sick of it. When I first saw these leaked screenshots:

http://i.imgur.com/YXzP0Vw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aPidAzN.jpg

I thought the game was pretty nice. I loved the district. About the graphics, I didn't/ don't expect them to be that good, but there was a difference in the atmosphere equivalent to the difference there should be between 2 games made on the same engine. Syndicate looks exactly like Unity, and I hope that changes. AC3 -> AC4 was a big difference, as was ACB-> ACR. I expect a difference from Syndicate. And I hope they do something about all the recycled animations that don't fit. Stuff like climbing and fighting make sense, but the walking and running should change. Also there seems to be no more hard covering, but when you do a cover assassination, Jacob goes to the hard covering animation from ACU then quickly goes out of it into the sneak animation. Little things like that really need to change. This is mostly my 2 cents about what'll bring this game down if not fixed

SixKeys
05-16-2015, 10:14 PM
Black Flag sold 11 million copies.

Tombraider's reboot sold 3.4 million before re-release.

Other games should BEG to be declining like AC.

This.

Even if Syndicate was an absolute bomb compared to its predecessors, AC is still popular enough that its sales won't plummet overnight. If anything, it will be a slow decline.

Charles_Phipps
05-16-2015, 10:18 PM
Besides, there's going to be people who come and don't come varying on the kind of game.

Rogue had almost no promotion, was on a last generation console, and was made overnight but still sold over a million copies.

Why?

People wanted to play a Templar.

Syndicate won't "save" AC for me because I have no interest in playing in Victorian times but will back, probably, for the next one.

Just not if its in Japan or China.

Sushiglutton
05-16-2015, 10:18 PM
First off if I understand correctly 2014-2015 was a very good year for Ubi in terms of profit. This says >€1 billion gross. https://www.ubisoftgroup.com/comsite_common/en-US/images/d20150512042213ubisoft fy15 slides conf call finaltcm99202524.pdf


There's a big difference between the reception in the gaming community and financial success in general (see COD lol). I think last year was very poor in terms of Ubi's perception in the community because of WD and then Unity. However active gamers are a pretty special group. If you play videogames all the time stuff like "the Ubisoft formula" will start to feel very tired and uninspired. If you only buy AC and perhaps FIFA or soemthing you won't care about stuff like that.

Also Ubi has always the "take a couple of years off"-card to play if sales should drop significantly. So I don't think Syndicate will break AC even if it does terribly, which I don't think it will. AC still offers stuff a lot of people want, that no other franchise really does (aka historical open world).

That said to me Syndicate looks very meh and it's unlikely to draw me back in.

Matknapers18
05-16-2015, 10:18 PM
I agree with every word, I share a very similar view to you OP. The post can essentially summarise how I've been feeling about the franchise and Syndicate of late, so I enjoyed reading that.

Nevertheless, topazio is absolutely correct regarding the Japan thing. I know Gamers who ditched the series long ago, who would go crazy over Feudal Japan. Just announcing that would get a lot of people back on board, I'm sure of it. I imagine Ubisoft are saving Japan for when AC is right at the bottom of the ditch as far as public reception. Like 'series is about to die' scenario. Japan could revive the franchise with a bit of luck. But it would result in absolutely brutal consequences if not executed well.

SixKeys
05-16-2015, 10:22 PM
So I don't think Syndicate will break AC even if it does terribly, which I don't think it will. AC still offers stuff a lot of people want, that no other franchise really does (aka historical open world).

For now. We'll see what Lord Patrice has up his sleeve.

Charles_Phipps
05-16-2015, 10:23 PM
I agree with every word, I share a very similar view to you OP. The post can essentially summarise how I've been feeling about the franchise and Syndicate of late, so I enjoyed reading that.

Nevertheless, topazio is absolutely correct regarding the Japan thing. I know Gamers who ditched the series long ago, who would go crazy over Feudal Japan. Just announcing that would get a lot of people back on board, I'm sure of it. I imagine Ubisoft are saving Japan for when AC is right at the bottom of the ditch as far as public reception. Like 'series is about to die' scenario. Japan could revive the franchise with a bit of luck. But it would result in absolutely brutal consequences if not executed well.

I've mentioned before that the forums are not a good place to get a sense of people want. I, for one, wouldn't play a game in Japan.

It's just....too far from what AC is for me.

SixKeys
05-16-2015, 10:25 PM
I've mentioned before that the forums are not a good place to get a sense of people want. I, for one, wouldn't play a game in Japan.

It's just....too far from what AC is for me.

It's actually outside these forums where you'll find most of the people asking for Japan. Over here a lot of fans (including myself) feel it's an overused and cliché setting that has a lot of potential to go wrong. But all the big review sites still bring it up occasionally as THE place Ubi should take the franchise.

Sushiglutton
05-16-2015, 10:32 PM
For now. We'll see what Lord Patrice has up his sleeve.

Haha I don't think Patrice is much of a threat for now. Think his game will be on a completely different scale (I doubt open world, since if I understood correctly he's aiming for an episodic structure). We'll see though, perhaps one day...

Namikaze_17
05-16-2015, 11:54 PM
Will Syndicate decide everything? Or will Syndicate not matter much and extend AC's life until "that game that will decide the fate of the series" eventually comes around?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2X4asYYWQw

D.I.D.
05-17-2015, 12:06 AM
After Syndicate's reveal, you just have to open your eyes. There are only a handful of people even interested in this game.

3.27m views on the US trailer alone, and rising. Wait until they start actual promotion, or add an E3 reveal. It's really hard to tell how many people are interested, especially from this forum. Even at peak times of year, it's still mostly the same small group of usernames talking to each other.

DA SHIZZLE IG
05-17-2015, 12:18 AM
To add on to your great post

they need to bring back multi-player(heavy reply value) back for a start. Get rid of them "tackle this guy after chasing him" missions first lol. That would generate a lot of positive interest of the bat.


3.27m views on the US trailer alone, and rising. Wait until they start actual promotion, or add an E3 reveal. It's really hard to tell how many people are interested, especially from this forum. Even at peak times of year, it's still mostly the same small group of usernames talking to each other.
LOL this is obviously because of what the thread starter is saying. Of coarse we all checked it out because we are all fans. Actual long time fans checked it out because we want to see "that game" that takes AC to the next level. The other half is just people checking out the hype and casual gamers/casual ac fans.

Look at the comments under the video though, that right there pretty much tells the real.

VoXngola
05-17-2015, 12:22 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2X4asYYWQw
god damn it :D :D

Charles_Phipps
05-17-2015, 12:23 AM
In the end, it'll sell like gangbusters because it always does.

VestigialLlama4
05-17-2015, 03:52 AM
In the end, it'll sell like gangbusters because it always does.

The concept of AC is such that it can always redeem itself. The settings and ability to shift timelines will always have something for somebody. It can be any kind of game really. It can always refresh and conjure up the old magic with deft strokes of inspiration.

Like AC1 and AC2 are essentially two different games. AC1 is a moody, noir-like story of an existential hitman and AC2(and sequels) is an Alexandre Dumas/Walter Scott style historical adventure, with complicated revenge schemes, and melodramatic bad guys. AC3 is a like the old fashioned Hollywood Epic - stately and grandiose -- Black Flag is the quirky B-Movie shot by reusing the same sets, stock footage and extras.

So there's always that scope for renewal and shift in tones. And the concept still has crazy amazing potential. Like UNITY was going to have PARIS in multiple-eras with the ability to travel back and forth in time. That concept would have been amazing and crazy experimental if they went ahead for it (and they should have in my view). The Bleeding Effect is amazing enough that it could be its own game (and I have a sneaky suspicion that PD's new game is based on it).

Charles_Phipps
05-17-2015, 04:13 AM
I straight up think they should have had Arno physically travelling through time to different eras.

Because it would have been awesome!

:-)

VestigialLlama4
05-17-2015, 04:40 AM
I straight up think they should have had Arno physically travelling through time to different eras.

Because it would have been awesome!

:-)

As per Jeffrey Yohalem that was in fact the original concept. The Jacques de Molay prologue was the first thing written for the game. The game had a plot of Paris through the ages, where artifacts change hands all the time. Arno was originally going to die at the end of his section (in my head-canon I can imagine him being guillotined). But then, well the full story isn't mentioned of course (Non-disclosure agreements and general unspoken rules and all that), Yohalem says time and deadlines was a factor. That's true enough since you are essentially looking at three or four different versions of Paris and if you could navigate each era deliberately open-world (i.e. go back and forth in time to any version of Paris in a non-linear way), its kind of crazy ambitious. especially if you do it Next-Gen with each city being 1:1 with interiors. I still think they should have gone for the gold and pursued that idea, do Paris in two large eras, with other events and places localized and made into smaller chunks. A game in the French Revolution was literally the last option they chose, and that explains the lack of interest in the period and the thoroughly shoddy research.

Ubisoft just need to find the right era for that concept. One where architecture and NPC changes aren't so super-dramatic and labor intensive (for their army of studios and the like, you know). Ancient Egypt for instance, you can travel back and forth and see the pyramids built, go to Hellenic Alexandria and then Napoleon in Egypt. That's one era where it can work. And since most of Egypt is in ruins, they have license to make up some of the stuff at least. You can also get a sense of how the Pyramids looked originally (based on latest research) and how they looked when Napoleon arrived ("Soldiers, 40 centuries look down upon us.")

Charles_Phipps
05-17-2015, 05:10 AM
Honestly, Unity feels like it had a bunch of last minute re-writes.

The bit with Jacques De Morlay has nothing really to do with the rest of the game as the Sword of Eden didn't NEED to be established and Germaine's motivations were boring because they had nothing to do with Arno's motivations.

Arno's father dies TWICE in the game so you have a bunch of extraneous storytelling.

The truce with the Templars and Assassins? No effect on the plot whatsoever.

It makes me wonder what sort of story they would have come up with if they'd had time.


Ubisoft just need to find the right era for that concept. One where architecture and NPC changes aren't so super-dramatic and labor intensive (for their army of studios and the like, you know). Ancient Egypt for instance, you can travel back and forth and see the pyramids built, go to Hellenic Alexandria and then Napoleon in Egypt. That's one era where it can work. And since most of Egypt is in ruins, they have license to make up some of the stuff at least. You can also get a sense of how the Pyramids looked originally (based on latest research) and how they looked when Napoleon arrived ("Soldiers, 40 centuries look down upon us.")

Eh, then what's the point?

I might prefer something with little mini-stages rather than whole cities.

Or hell, we had multiple cities in Assassins Creed 3.

Just do each small city as a place for one Assassin and one era.