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pacmanate
05-15-2015, 03:24 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFDW0EcWMAAsPa6.jpg:large

Looks like he will be a Templar Target. How do you guys feel about White Rooms returning? I personally like it!

http://www.gamesradar.com/assassins-creed-syndicates-first-revealed-target-scottish-scientist-david-brewster/

Shahkulu101
05-15-2015, 03:28 PM
Nice to see them returning, even though I did like the flashbacks in Unity and wouldn't have minded if they'd returned. I do want to see them experiment with the post-assassination scenarios in future games though. Nice to change things up every now and then.

I just wonder why Arno was so different whereas every other Assassin had the white room experience.

pacmanate
05-15-2015, 03:29 PM
Nice to see them returning, even though I did like the flashbacks in Unity and wouldn't have minded if they'd returned.

I just wonder why Arno was so different whereas every other Assassin had the white room experience.

Could be as simple as they wanted to change things up a bit

Shahkulu101
05-15-2015, 03:31 PM
Yes I know why the devs done it, I was thinking of the lore reason. Like why is Arno the only one who can absorb memories? Or is he the only one we played as that could do it? I guess it doesn't really matter lol.

D.I.D.
05-15-2015, 03:34 PM
Aww. I might be in a minority, but I really liked the psychic CCTV in Unity. It made a complete pair of bookends to a mission, that Arno's visions gave you hints about what was to come and then gave you hints about what had lead to this moment as a conclusion. It directly connected the assassin's Eagle Vision to this psychic power too, making sense out of these abilities.

White rooms were great in the first couple of games, but they became increasingly nonsensical and especially baffling to new players. Even to devoted followers of the series, it was getting to be a bit weird that information could be leaking out of white room conversations (which are meant to be simulations based on data, and originally a way of delivering privileged information to "us", the player/audience) and into the knowledge of the ancestor. Actually, typing that now, I'm getting a sneaking feeling that there might even have been some of these ambiguously credible moments in AC1, but it's been an age since I played it last. Anyway, I thought it was getting creaky, and the Unity solution was a very elegant one.

[edit] Actually, thinking about it... what are the chances white rooms are back because the movie's director has decided that white rooms will look fancy in the cinema version? That would explain the volte-face.

Democrito_71
05-15-2015, 03:43 PM
I would like a good combination of the flashbacks and the white room like the last flashback/white room scene with Germain in Unity. It was cool to see the flashbacks of what Germain did before and during his time as grandmaster and that Arno was able to talk and ask directly to Germain in his flashback/white room scene.

And the La touche flashback made him shine more since we learned who he was and his reasons to become a templar.

The La Touche flashback scene and Germains flashback/whiteroom scene was the best ones in Unity imo and I wish the devs gave each target in Unity the same treatment as they gave La Touche and Germain. I hope Ubi make a nice combination of flashback and the white room scenes for each target in Syndicate.

VestigialLlama4
05-15-2015, 04:32 PM
The point of UNITY was to relaunch the Franchise and update some of the gimmicks. A good idea in theory and I like some of the stuff, like Assassin no longer being in white robes, but a dude in blue and the old-fashioned white hoods are now ceremonial outfits, worn when "the Assassins camp in the sewers and have drinks with the lizard people". As for the old white-room conversations, on one hand I like some of the flashbacks but the game kind of proves why those Templar Deathbed Conversations were so important. It fulfilled a certain function which the deathbed flashbacks don't do at all.

In AC1, the point of those conversations wasn't necessarily to advance the plot or spell out a cool plot twist. Its about humanizing the targets and making Altair question his work, provide him a different perspective and the like. In AC2 and Ezio games, they made the conversations briefer and shorter but the point is to give the villain a theatrical dying scene and stage exit, to make each target memorable and unique. AC3 took it even further than that, going back to AC1 style and same with Black Flag. The thing is Assassins are supposed to question their goals and feel the weight of every target they attack and kill. The deathbed conversations don't necessarily provide plot information except in rare instances. In UNITY, the game is largely a kind of murder mystery where Arno finds each target and the dying memories further the plot forward, this means that most of the targets are fairly disposable and don't get their moment in the sun. Like Marie Levesque for instance or the Roi des Thunes, or Sivert. You kind of get humanizaing points in the flashbacks for Le Peletier, La Touche and Frederic Roulle but mostly they are made to look like fools and puppets whereas in the earlier games, every Templar had his or her reason for being a Templar and remaining one and you understood that. I always saw the deathbed conversations as poetic, that is something that shouldn't be overly explained but accepted as a convention that provided an emotional payoff. UNITY gives an in-Universe explanation and logic, they are part of the Eagle Sense's ability to commune with a person's dying consciousness. Now I always did suspect that but it kind of loses effect if its explained that baldly and that explanation kind of opens weird tangents. The explanations fans came up with for the Animus Death Chats were better and more meaningful than anything they came up with.

Like when Arno tells the Assassin Council that he read his mind, they all react as if its totally normal and that makes it really funny. I mean what-the-hell. And you know its a nice joke, Arno is an Assassin investigating and interrogating Templars is...kill suspects and read their minds for clues. If you write it down like it, Arno sounds a lot like a serial killer who attacked people because he had hallucinatory experiences when he kills people, and you wonder how much of what we see in UNITY is Arno's crazy mind rationalizing his actions and how much they are actually "communing in the afterlife". Which is the simpler explanation?

SpiritOfNevaeh
05-15-2015, 04:50 PM
I liked the white rooms so I don't mind :)

I loved the way they did it in AC1 where the target was walking around, explaining their reasons for their actions and such.

Also like the way they did it in AC3 where they would give the assassin "a wake up" call sort of speak.

Xstantin
05-15-2015, 04:53 PM
Also like the way they did it in AC3 where they would give the assassin "a wake up" call sort of speak.

I thought that was nice as well. I wouldn't mind white room-ish loading screens coming back too

Hans684
05-15-2015, 05:05 PM
They are better than flashbacks but I'd rather have both, and the white room conversations is allowed by the Father of Understanding(Germain's words). Germain is a Sage with visions of Aita, so I'm curtain he knows who the Father of Understanding is. Must be a First Civ. member.

Kaschra
05-15-2015, 05:12 PM
I really hope this is true.
I don't like the memory reading in Unity.

GunnerGalactico
05-15-2015, 05:36 PM
I'm happy that they are bringing them back.

Namikaze_17
05-15-2015, 06:02 PM
Great; Too bad the memory reading didn't last long though. Now Unity seems like the odd man out.

phoenix-force411
05-15-2015, 06:10 PM
AC1 white rooms were very long, but they were necessary towards story and character progression. I personally like ACIII white rooms though. Very meaningful. I felt pretty disappointed with ACIV's whiterooms, and the main bosses white room was stupid including his death.

Namikaze_17
05-15-2015, 06:28 PM
I felt pretty disappointed with ACIV's whiterooms, and the main bosses white room was stupid including his death.

I believe the reason they felt disappointing in a way, was because it was more geared to developing Edward and understanding his outlook on life. That, however, left many of the AC4 Templars feeling just...there.

That said, I still enjoyed them. They all had a contrast and similarity to Edward in a way. Especially Prins.

Ureh
05-15-2015, 06:34 PM
That would be cool if we could change the camera angle inside the white room... that way we can be the director right? I dunno about you guys but whenever I replay AC1 I never get tired of adjusting the camera and moving Altair (when it's possible). There's something about being in control during those scenes that just makes me feel like I'm part of it or something like that...

The_Pashker-Man
05-15-2015, 07:04 PM
Arno's eagle sense was too weak... not enough to get in the white room.

Civona
05-15-2015, 08:36 PM
I'm going to guess that the development teams still call the Unity-like flashback things "White Rooms", since they're still about a weird animusey effect as you find out what the target's intentions were. The only real difference is that it isn't literally them having a conversation, except in the case of Germaine: seeing someone's memories gives a far better excuse for learning information, since most people don't explain their plans to their murderers.

And just in general, that's the kind of thing I'd expect a dev team to keep calling the same thing internally even if it's changed a bit.

SixKeys
05-15-2015, 08:48 PM
I'm a little disappointed if it's true, TBH. Like D.I.D., I liked the way Arno's psychic abilities were merged in with Eagle Vision. It allows for smoother transitions between missions and works better from a storytelling POV. I don't have a problem with the traditional white rooms, but I'm just so tired of the same old tropes being recycled from game to game. At least Unity tried to do something new in this aspect, and now they're (possibly) throwing it out again in a panic because everything must be more like Ezio's games.

Civona
05-15-2015, 08:58 PM
I actually didn't like the memory reading in Unity, but only because the way it progressed in pretty much a straight line from target to target seemed too neat to me. I think the whole concept of it is great, but that they need to use it in a more interesting way, one that is maybe a bit more focused on the life and personality of the individual and less on negating the need for detective work.

D.I.D.
05-15-2015, 09:07 PM
I actually didn't like the memory reading in Unity, but only because the way it progressed in pretty much a straight line from target to target seemed too neat to me. I think the whole concept of it is great, but that they need to use it in a more interesting way, one that is maybe a bit more focused on the life and personality of the individual and less on negating the need for detective work.

It had great potential to become a detective's tool, because the information came in fleeting scraps. If they continue with it, it provides a lot of potential for setting up fantastic endings that make you kick yourself for not seeing it coming, or for really catastrophic mistakes to be made because of misinterpreting the signs.

SixKeys
05-15-2015, 09:10 PM
I actually didn't like the memory reading in Unity, but only because the way it progressed in pretty much a straight line from target to target seemed too neat to me. I think the whole concept of it is great, but that they need to use it in a more interesting way, one that is maybe a bit more focused on the life and personality of the individual and less on negating the need for detective work.

I do agree that the memories should be more about the motivations that drive the character, not just events.

Sorrosyss
05-16-2015, 01:50 PM
I'll be happy to see them returned. I know they weren't overly realistic, but they always made the dialogue feel more profound - especially with the Animus echo effect to the sound.

Going4Quests
05-16-2015, 02:41 PM
The answer why Arno has no whiterooms is pretty simple and already given actually. Each Assassin can be gifted or train a different version of the Eagle Vision. Arno has this specific version where he can read the minds of those he kill. That's your answer: instead of a whiteroom he directly goes into their mind.