PDA

View Full Version : Clipped spits flight model



gkll
02-03-2004, 05:37 PM
It will be interesting to see what the 1c team does with the FM for the clipped and not spits.

There was a report posted here sometime ago which said there was no difference in turn circle between the two. Don't slam me I don't remember which spit exactly or the report specifics altitude etc - it was a brit test pilot report... and it was like a XIV I think..

But the physics end of the il2 coding will want to give a significant turn circle advantage to the normal wing because of the larger wing and lower loading. In RL the difference might be less than predicted by physics for all sorts of subtle reasons mere wing-loading doesn't account for... but how will 1c know what to do? Physics..... pilots report... which to trust?

Maybe we're gonna get another P_47 rollrate thread after the spit V's get here.....

gkll
02-03-2004, 05:37 PM
It will be interesting to see what the 1c team does with the FM for the clipped and not spits.

There was a report posted here sometime ago which said there was no difference in turn circle between the two. Don't slam me I don't remember which spit exactly or the report specifics altitude etc - it was a brit test pilot report... and it was like a XIV I think..

But the physics end of the il2 coding will want to give a significant turn circle advantage to the normal wing because of the larger wing and lower loading. In RL the difference might be less than predicted by physics for all sorts of subtle reasons mere wing-loading doesn't account for... but how will 1c know what to do? Physics..... pilots report... which to trust?

Maybe we're gonna get another P_47 rollrate thread after the spit V's get here.....

VW-IceFire
02-03-2004, 06:03 PM
Clipped Spit should roll a bit faster and have a slightly larger turn circle and the non-clipped the other way around. Thats how I've always understood it.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

Willey
02-04-2004, 08:36 AM
Less wing area (shorter wingspan) means less lift, but also less drag. That gives a better top speed, a better acceleration (with the same AoA though - due to less lift, the AoA at a certain state will be higher which induces some drag - so it should accelerate better at higher speeds at least) and less turn and climb performance. Sort of a BnZ version.

ZG77_Nagual
02-04-2004, 09:42 AM
Through a goodly chunk of it's speed range the clipped spit is one of the best rolling planes of the war

buz13
02-04-2004, 11:54 AM
I understood that the clipped wings were designed for low alt flight....denser air requiring less wing area and allowing quicker roll at the same time.

gkll
02-04-2004, 12:05 PM
Yeah my understanding is that the clipped spits had low-rated engines and in IX and XIV form should be brutal competitors in the typical low-level furballs we see online.... like a La7 that dives better, rolls quicker and turns as good or very nearly as good.

When the clipped wing bubble canopy XIV comes out we are going to see a large number online almost immediately. Like a La7 it will outrun anything it can't outturn. It will be very interesting to see how it matches a La7....

Anyhow the pilots report said there was no turn circle penalty for the clipped wing version - this almost certainly couldn't be true at high altitude but down low?

buz13
02-04-2004, 12:08 PM
Picked this info off another Spit website..

"Pending the arrival of the Spitfire Mk IX, some Mk Vs had their wing tips removed, decreasing the span by four feet four inches. The 'clipped-wing' Spitfire was marginally faster than the standard Mk V but had a considerably better rate of roll. A Merlin with a modified supercharger was also fitted, which gave a speed at low level equivalent to that of the Fw-190. Such Spitfires were known as 'clipped and cropped'."

gkll
02-04-2004, 12:22 PM
yeah buz add 'clapped' to the 'clipped' and 'cropped' bit.

Cropped=cropping the impeller on the supercharger vanes to improve low altitude boost - which led to 'clapped out' for the motors after a short time.

When brand new (as we get them il2) the clipped low-level V should be a tough competitor. In RL as the months wore on these planes got pretty tired from the extra boost and I heard on this forum that they were pretty hideous...

Anyone know if our clipped V's in the addon will also have low-rated motors? It would be correct but what did 1c do?

kyrule2
02-04-2004, 03:28 PM
I have read that the Spitfire XII with Griffon engine was designed and used (100 examples used for home defense) to counter the low-level raids by the FW-190 because the Spitfire IX had insufficient speed at low altitude, clipped or not. The quote finished by saying that this was the second time that the FW-190 had influenced Spitfire production.

I wonder what the Spit IX's speed at sea-level will be. It should be lower than the A-4 which is 540km/h, but that would mean that the A-5 would simply run away from it (570km/h) in '43. If they make it faster than the A-4 then it will contradict everything I have read concerning this. I'm very interested in seeing what they come up with in terms of Spit IX's speed down low.

In fact I will post this question in GD forum and see what I get.

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors" by Nicolas Trudgian

MiloMorai
02-04-2004, 05:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gkll:
yeah buz add 'clapped' to the 'clipped' and 'cropped' bit.

Cropped=cropping the impeller on the supercharger vanes to improve low altitude boost - which led to 'clapped out' for the motors after a short time.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

clip = wings shortened
crop = impellor, smaller dia
crap = well used airframes



Long live the Horse Clans.