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THE115
05-14-2015, 01:59 AM
I don't know if its just me, but does it feel like Arno's story isn't over. It just feels unfinished. I know that there is a new AC coming out but in the time line its a big jump. any opinion's?

Altair1789
05-14-2015, 02:14 AM
Same with Connor, Shay, Aveline, Eseosa (his story was barely even started). Ubisoft could put them all in one game/ DLC, but they're saying they don't plan to. They didn't get much love from the community, so Ubi sorta dropped them. Hopefully they're just saying they won't so they can surprise us. But damn, they REALLY need a closure to their stories

Civona
05-14-2015, 02:20 AM
Will people ever stop expecting to learn every detail of every protagonist's life? I really like the concept of joining a character for a single pivotal moment in their life and then moving on, but sometimes it feels like no-one else does.

Xstantin
05-14-2015, 02:21 AM
Is he popular on Tumblr? :rolleyes:

Namikaze_17
05-14-2015, 02:34 AM
It is done.

He simply moved on in life, (perhaps met someone), and eventually died.

I thought Dead Kings settled this. Why are people still going on about closure?

This is getting as redundant as cries of closure for the American Assassins.

Altair1789
05-14-2015, 02:52 AM
Will people ever stop expecting to learn every detail of every protagonist's life? I really like the concept of joining a character for a single pivotal moment in their life and then moving on, but sometimes it feels like no-one else does.

It's not about learning every detail, it's about giving their story an ending. Especially when Juno says things like "You have played your part, and you will do so again" to Connor. It feels so unfinished. We could just have a new thing where we learn about a character for an important moment in their life then drop them, but we've had endings for Ezio, Alta´r, and Edward, the only widely respected characters, so if they're going to do that could they not give endings only to the loved characters? I guess Edward's story was finished before any of us knew anything about him though. Other than that it's just Ezio and Alta´r, but only them getting an ending would make more sense since they're iconic characters

Perk89
05-14-2015, 03:34 AM
Yeah they've got a growling backlog of characters they need to address and I'm concerned they aren't going to do them justice.

The corporate guys overreact so quickly to the initia publicl response to the characters they don't even have time to see the impact those characters leave.

I-Like-Pie45
05-14-2015, 04:42 AM
It will be all addressed in Initiates.

Be sure to download the Companion App today!

Civona
05-14-2015, 05:01 AM
It's not about learning every detail, it's about giving their story an ending. Especially when Juno says things like "You have played your part, and you will do so again" to Connor. It feels so unfinished. We could just have a new thing where we learn about a character for an important moment in their life then drop them, but we've had endings for Ezio, Alta´r, and Edward, the only widely respected characters, so if they're going to do that could they not give endings only to the loved characters? I guess Edward's story was finished before any of us knew anything about him though. Other than that it's just Ezio and Alta´r, but only them getting an ending would make more sense since they're iconic characters

Connor and Arno both fought through a clear narrative arc which led them to accomplish something important. Just because their stories end on the assumption that they don't drop off the face of the earth after that doesn't mean they didn't end. The story is not about their lives in their entirety, it is about specific adventures they had. and those specific adventures do end, yes.

Charles_Phipps
05-14-2015, 05:06 AM
It will be all addressed in Initiates.

Be sure to download the Companion App today!

That is beautiful.

+1 Creed Point.

VestigialLlama4
05-14-2015, 05:44 AM
Will people ever stop expecting to learn every detail of every protagonist's life? I really like the concept of joining a character for a single pivotal moment in their life and then moving on, but sometimes it feels like no-one else does.

I honestly don't get where people think "expecting to learn every detail of every protagonist's life" is some kind of crazy wish? Why is everyone pretending this is the real world where the past is a hard and difficult thing to understand? The AC Universe has the Animus, that machine that tells us everything there is to know about a man's life until the birth of the child that passed on his DNA until the last recepient from which the sample was taken. We should and can know everything about an ancestor. We have his memories, we have the descendant's memories and descendant's descendant's memories. In other words, there is no way the Animus operators cannot not know what happened to the ancestors later life. And if Shaun, Rebecca, and others know, if Melanie Lemay knows, there is absolutely no justification for why fans can't know. In any case "expecitng to learn every detail of every protagonist's life" is a crazy rule they made up solely in the case of Connor. Its not consistent with everything that came before it and its also not consistent with the other games in the New World Saga.

In AC2, Altair's Codex told us all what the Great Eagle was up to after AC1. He hooked up with that Templar girl, had kids, fought Genghis Khan, invented gadgets and a b-tchin' suit of armor. Now this was before Revelations unnecessarily complicated Altair's story by making him playable again, but the point is in the first sequel to AC1, we were given closure to Altair's story. AC1 fans weren't left shafted that AC1 was totally done and forgotten, that story had consequences and an importance. In the course of the Kenway Saga, we have playable protagonists like Connor, Edward, Haytham, Aveline, Shay Cormac, Adewale. Thanks to companion media (Oliver Bowden books, Initiates), we know all about Haytham, Edward and Adewale. We also kind of know that Aveline de Grandpre will eventually hook up with Gerard Blanc as per hints in Black Flag audio files, that she's active and a full career Assassin later on. ROGUE likewise provides Shay closure in that we know that he's active till his mid-40s and by that point becomes psycho-Templar. ROGUE gives backstory to Robert Faulkner via war letters and that guy was Connor's First Mate, we get backstory on Connor's ship Aquila.

Altair was a very divisive protagonist too but Ubisoft still respected fans who purchased and liked the game. That's what it amounts to, basic decency and respect. Every protagonist isn't going to be popular but there will be a certain section who likes them and a company should respect that. In the case of the Kenway Saga, the way they have been treating Connor, in terms of the sequels and the like is kind of like if after AC1, they give you closure about Malik, closure about the Damascus Rafiq and the early lives of Al Mualim and Robert de Sable but not Altair, instead they will add snarky jokes, "As for Altair, oh don't get me started on how he died, what a mess..."

As for people not wanting closure. People need to remember that all the weird abilities and powers notwithstanding, AC is not a superhero story. This isn't Marvel or DC where Batman will never leave his mid-30s or Peter Parker can't marry a woman or get a divorce without the Devil being involved somehow. This is a historical-adventure fiction, that means people grow old, get married, have kids and die. Alexandre Dumas did give closure to the Three Musketeers after all. It is unfair for fans to expect every protagonist to get the Ezio treatment and have us see everything from birth-to-death. It is vastly more unfair for developers to state that we aren't going to give closure because this character wasn't popular among whiteboy gamer meatheads or that they are the star of a title that made Ubisoft the laughing stock. So yes, Connor should get closure and much as I dislike him, so should Arno Dorian. They can't apply one standard for some protagonists and another for others.

Charles_Phipps
05-14-2015, 05:51 AM
It's also not like it's that difficult.

"Arno eventually becomes the head of his own Assassin group or remains an independent Assassin until death."

"Shay Cormac rises to become Grandmaster of the Temples in both Europe and America after the deaths of both Germaine and Kenway."

"Connor works against slavery and marries Aveline until he dies."

They're not big things to write.

Shahkulu101
05-14-2015, 06:17 AM
I just really want to know what him and Napoleon got up to. After that I'm happy for them to be done with him.

I mean clearly that bit at the end was a tease of what's to come. I was almost certain it was teasing an Arno sequel.

Charles_Phipps
05-14-2015, 01:37 PM
I just really want to know what him and Napoleon got up to. After that I'm happy for them to be done with him.

I mean clearly that bit at the end was a tease of what's to come. I was almost certain it was teasing an Arno sequel.

Eh, so was Connor getting invited to France.

Shahkulu101
05-14-2015, 02:16 PM
Not really, that was just a tidbit in an optional conversation.

Arno and Napoleon were shown in a main cutscene at the end together which clearly signifies that their relationship is of some importance. I mean why else would they show the two together and indicate the time skip? They were obviously trying to tell us that some crucial stuff happened between the two some time after the games' ending. Otherwise the scene is pointless.

Going4Quests
05-14-2015, 02:17 PM
Well, seeing Arno is an ancestor of Desmond he has to have found someone else than Elise. Because he was an ancestor I always tought Elise was actually going to be his wife.. :(

VestigialLlama4
05-14-2015, 02:57 PM
Well, seeing Arno is an ancestor of Desmond he has to have found someone else than Elise. Because he was an ancestor I always tought Elise was actually going to be his wife.. :(

Arno is NOT an ancestor of Desmond. According to Helix Rifts, Arno's ancestor is some Canadian dude. I am not joking, Melanie literally says that they found material from a Canadian guy in Montreal and found Arno.

Going4Quests
05-14-2015, 03:00 PM
Wait, how does he have Eagle Vision then?

dxsxhxcx
05-14-2015, 03:24 PM
Connor and Arno both fought through a clear narrative arc which led them to accomplish something important. Just because their stories end on the assumption that they don't drop off the face of the earth after that doesn't mean they didn't end. The story is not about their lives in their entirety, it is about specific adventures they had. and those specific adventures do end, yes.

this, some people tend to forget that is the modern days section that dictates when the ancestor's role will end...

Xstantin
05-14-2015, 03:25 PM
Wait, how does he have Eagle Vision then?

cause it's not exclusive to Desmond's ancestors

VestigialLlama4
05-14-2015, 03:26 PM
Wait, how does he have Eagle Vision then?

Eagle Vision isn't exclusive to Desmond, all Assassins with First-Civ DNA can have it. Shay has Eagle Vision as does Aveline and Adewale and they aren't Desmond's ancestors either. Mary Reade in Black Flag says that the Eagle Vision can even be acquired or activated by the Assassins in any person, but for some people it comes immediately.

Going4Quests
05-14-2015, 03:37 PM
Hm thanks for the lore information & lesson. Are the fryes from Syndicate ancestors of Desmond?

VestigialLlama4
05-14-2015, 04:17 PM
Hm thanks for the lore information & lesson. Are the fryes from Syndicate ancestors of Desmond?

No information yet, but its unlikely. As per Black Flag, Desmond's ancestry on both his mother and father's sides places him in specific areas and spheres of influence:

Patrilineal Line: (I.E. Desmond's Dad)
Fifteenth Century - Italian Renaissance
Sixteenth Century - Ottoman Empire
Eighteenth Century - American Colonies / War for Independence
Nineteenth Century - New England and American Midwest

Matrilineal Line: (I.E. Desmond's Mom)
Twelfth Century - Holy Land / Crusades
Thirteenth Century - Egypt and Northern Africa
Fourteenth Century - Ashikaga Shogunate in Japan
Eighteenth Century - French Revolution
Nineteenth Century - Napoleonic wars; Taiwan
Twentieth Century - "Summer of Love" American Pacific Coast

Now I know what you are thinking, it clearly mentions French Revolution and Napoleonic Wars there but Ubisoft have specifically mentioned that Desmond is not Arno's ancestor. It's just that Desmond had an ancestor in that timeline and there's a good hint that it's Pierre Bellec (he keeps saying he wants to be like Altair, Ezio and Connor, all of them Desmond's ancestors and we know nothing about his personal life). Superficially you can say that Desmond's Dad represents the West (Ezio, Kenway Line) and Desmond's Mother represents the East (Arabic, Egyptian, Berber, Japanese, Taiwanese descent). You know we don't know anything about her in the present day. In either case, Victorian London is not listed there at all.

Going4Quests
05-14-2015, 04:40 PM
If it was Pierre he should have had children already, because else the line would have stopped. Also if it was him, I feel sad that he got killed by Arno. :(

Charles_Phipps
05-14-2015, 04:41 PM
If it was Pierre he should have had children already, because else the line would have stopped. Also if it was him, I feel sad that he got killed by Arno. :(

To be fair, all it means is Desmond has some jerkish *** ancestors.

Namikaze_17
05-14-2015, 04:56 PM
Another candidate would be Leon...

( Though that still leaves the FR ancestor)

He would be a decent age participating in the Napoleonic wars.

You know, just saying. I don't care if I'm wrong or right.

Pierre is a good chance too tho.

VestigialLlama4
05-14-2015, 04:58 PM
To be fair, all it means is Desmond has some jerkish *** ancestors.

Well he does have Haytham and he's as much of an a--hole as Pierre.

Charles_Phipps
05-14-2015, 05:01 PM
A pity it wasn't Arno and Elise.

Another awkward Desmond family moment.

He could have Templar and Assassin ancestors all throughout!

Going4Quests
05-14-2015, 05:30 PM
To be fair, all it means is Desmond has some jerkish *** ancestors.


Well he does have Haytham and he's as much of an a--hole as Pierre.

Oh right, didn't think like that. Yes, it was good that Haytham was killed, or well, I tought that during AC3. But thinking like that for Pierre, still good. I just tought of the wasted knowledge and time from the Alta´r line and ancestors of Desmond.

But to continue what I meant (this may contain spoilers!!). In Rogue it is revealed in war letters that the Templars were hating Haytham at some point and plotted to kill him, saying they should have killed him together with his father and shouldn't have trained him etc. Braddock was included in this. Imo, if Haytham would have known this, I don't think he'd stay with the Templar cause. They killed his father and then misguided him for having born talents.

VestigialLlama4
05-14-2015, 06:03 PM
Oh right, didn't think like that. Yes, it was good that Haytham was killed, or well, I tought that during AC3. But thinking like that for Pierre, still good. I just tought of the wasted knowledge and time from the Alta´r line and ancestors of Desmond.

But to continue what I meant (this may contain spoilers!!). In Rogue it is revealed in war letters that the Templars were hating Haytham at some point and plotted to kill him, saying they should have killed him together with his father and shouldn't have trained him etc. Braddock was included in this. Imo, if Haytham would have known this, I don't think he'd stay with the Templar cause. They killed his father and then misguided him for having born talents.

There's a companion novel called FORSAKEN, Haytham knew who his Dad was, knew who his Dad's killers were, he avenged them and still loved Big Brother.

Charles_Phipps
05-14-2015, 06:11 PM
There's a companion novel called FORSAKEN, Haytham knew who his Dad was, knew who his Dad's killers were, he avenged them and still loved Big Brother.

Haytham was kind of stupid for that, of course, but old habits are hard to shake. I do think that's why he founded the Colonial Rite, though. Haytham was tired of being the guy to take orders and wanted to be the man who started giving them.

Going4Quests
05-14-2015, 06:47 PM
Erm yes he knew who his dad was and who killed him at some point, but he never knew how the other templars talked about him that did not server under him. He just killed Birch basicly because he killed his father.

Charles_Phipps
05-14-2015, 06:49 PM
Erm yes he knew who his dad was and who killed him at some point, but he never knew how the other templars talked about him that did not server under him. He just killed Birch basicly because he killed his father.

Yeah, Haytham was treated like crap by them. Haytham wasn't much better to Shay in my opinion. I totally think he sent him on a wild goose chase.

Going4Quests
05-14-2015, 06:53 PM
I find it weird how Shay is also nowhere mentioned in Haytham's journal.

Charles_Phipps
05-14-2015, 06:59 PM
I find it weird how Shay is also nowhere mentioned in Haytham's journal.

My headcanon is Haytham left Shay out because he didn't want anyone to know about the Earthquake Machines.

VestigialLlama4
05-14-2015, 07:13 PM
I find it weird how Shay is also nowhere mentioned in Haytham's journal.

It's not weird. Haytham doesn't really talk much about his fellow Templars, he merely sees them as co-workers and grunts. He's also an aristocratic snob so to him, Shay Cormac is essentially Irish ex-Assassin turned Templar lackey, useful but not worth his time to think about.

ACZanius
05-14-2015, 07:26 PM
I will keep saying it, AC: Rogue did not even exist in any SHAPE or FORM when AC 3 was finished, there fore Shay did not even exist. The debate is pointless because it makes no sense if you look at the fact.

Xstantin
05-14-2015, 08:36 PM
I will keep saying it, AC: Rogue did not even exist in any SHAPE or FORM when AC 3 was finished, there fore Shay did not even exist. The debate is pointless because it makes no sense if you look at the fact.

Shay is just a Gary Sue afterthought :rolleyes:

Charles_Phipps
05-14-2015, 08:38 PM
Shay is just a Gary Sue afterthought :rolleyes:

Ah, Gary Stu, the most meaningless accusation on the internet after Godwin.

:-)

ACZanius
05-14-2015, 08:39 PM
i have nothing against Rogue but how current situation is with the story and ****, man i would seriously prefer that it is fan fiction lol or even some made up animus trick or something....

Charles_Phipps
05-14-2015, 08:42 PM
i have nothing against Rogue but how current situation is with the story and ****, man i would seriously prefer that it is fan fiction lol or even some made up animus trick or something....

I think it's a superior story to the vast majority of AC material out there and gives a nice finale for the Black Flag modern day story. Something which was desperately needed.

ACZanius
05-14-2015, 08:46 PM
What i meant was Connor/Arno/shay situation that leads somewhere without a doubt. If not and Ubi is gonna let go it's stupid.

Expanding on that, original idea i guess would be that Haytham was the one who wiped out Assassins but Shay was created out of the blue and now we have this certain chain of events that are awkward, starting with later AC3/Connor time-line where we get Shay hole (read my previous post on page 4 i think where i say how it is regarding Shay), and Arno which has same connection or even stronger more personal with Shay, either i expect some sort of closure.

The truth
"I will keep saying it, AC: Rogue did not even exist in any SHAPE or FORM when AC 3 was finished, there fore Shay did not even exist. The debate is pointless because it makes no sense if you look at the fact." my comment, page 4

Charles_Phipps
05-14-2015, 08:48 PM
It is kind of funny.

I find it hilarious that if you look at it sideways, Connor's relationship to Shay is almost identical to Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader in A New Hope.

"A young Assassin named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jed...err Assassins."

Going4Quests
05-14-2015, 09:17 PM
The truth
"I will keep saying it, AC: Rogue did not even exist in any SHAPE or FORM when AC 3 was finished, there fore Shay did not even exist. The debate is pointless because it makes no sense if you look at the fact." my comment, page 4
I wouldn't be so sure of that. As we speak now, Ubisoft has made plans (I am serious and love it) for AC games for the coming 20 years.

ACZanius
05-14-2015, 09:20 PM
lol look it up, trust me Rogue did not even exist in any shape or form. It all makes perfectly 100% sense. However think what you like lol

Going4Quests
05-14-2015, 09:42 PM
Yes and you are Juno who knows everything.

Charles_Phipps
05-15-2015, 12:44 AM
lol look it up, trust me Rogue did not even exist in any shape or form. It all makes perfectly 100% sense. However think what you like lol

You keep saying that like it means something and not a blindingly obvious sentiment. DUH.

When people ask "Why didn't Haytham mention Shay" they mean in-universe, not out of universe.

It's like you're pointing out water is wet. :p

Come on.

Leo_2301
05-15-2015, 02:51 AM
The protag's endings are never shown in the game. Altair's death was not in AC1, Ezio's death was not in AC2. Altair and Ezio were featured in more than 1 game, because Ezio was well-received and Altair was the one who started it all. After the Ezio trilogy, Ubi never showed the death/end of story for the characters. Connor's life after AC3 largely remains unknown, but we know that he trained Eseosa and married a Settler. Same goes with Aveline, Ade, Alonzo and Arno. But Edward's death was planned way before AC4, so his short lifespan (~30-40 years) made his story feel completed. I guess we will be focusing on Jacob soon...

Mr.Black24
05-15-2015, 03:54 AM
You keep saying that like it means something and not a blindingly obvious sentiment. DUH.

When people ask "Why didn't Haytham mention Shay" they mean in-universe, not out of universe.

It's like you're pointing out water is wet. :p

Come on.I'm more concerned at the fact that why didn't Shay hunt down Connor after retrieving the Box in 1776. The guy is a damm Assassin Hunter, and never thought once to kill the man who is bringing down the Order you helped built up.

Its one of those things that make me think that it has that fan fiction flavor, since fan fiction makes plot holes like that. Unless if Ubisoft has an actual good explanation for it. And speculations from other folks are good and all, but they are just speculations, it will never be the actual answer, its annoying when people say that he "went into hiding" when he is a damm Assassin Hunter who was pretty determined to bring down the Colonial Assassins, and succeeded in doing so. It makes no sense to see how he would chicken out all of a sudden.

Charles_Phipps
05-15-2015, 04:15 AM
I'm more concerned at the fact that why didn't Shay hunt down Connor after retrieving the Box in 1776. The guy is a damm Assassin Hunter, and never thought once to kill the man who is bringing down the Order you helped built up.

Well, we have the answer in the Epilogue. Shay's response to the Assassin's destroying the Colonial Rite is to repay the Assassins by destroying the European branch of the order by starting the French Revolution. A revolution that destroys the pro-monarchy Assassins' influence. It's not a personal sort of revenge but Shay has moved past personal sorts of revenge. He's become more Templar than Assassin. Even so, it's entirely possible Shay DID try to hunt down Connor and one of them got killed in the process.

We won't know until we find out what they're up to.

On my end, I imagine Shay was too busy with the Revolutionary Templars to really do his own legwork and, besides, he was almost 50 in 1776. That's a little old for trying to kill Assassins two decades your junior.

I-Like-Pie45
05-15-2015, 04:16 AM
Arno tripped over a rock while chasing after Shay and died when his face landed on a porcupine

Shay was covered in giraffe hormones by a trap set up by Arno and his death was a mercy that came too late.

from the second edition of the abstergo employee handbook coming in the syndicate thatcherism edition

VestigialLlama4
05-15-2015, 04:21 AM
Arno tripped over a rock while chasing after Shay and died when his face landed on a porcupine

Shay was covered in giraffe hormones by a trap set up by Arno and his death was a mercy that came too late.

from the second edition of the abstergo employee handbook coming in the syndicate thatcherism edition

^THIS so much.

Charles_Phipps
05-15-2015, 04:28 AM
I should also point out the timelines don't actually add up all that well.

In 1776, Haytham Kenway and Charles Lee are still alive. Hell, Haytham Kenway doesn't die for another FIVE YEARS. When Charles Dorian was taunting Shay Cormac about Connor having rebuilt the Assassin Brotherhood, the Colonial Rite was still extremely powerful and in good hands. In other words, Shay Cormac doesn't have any reason to go back to the Americas for years to come. It's entirely possible he sent Haytham a letter and got told, "I've got a handle on this kid."

Wrong as Haytham proved to be.

VestigialLlama4
05-15-2015, 04:43 AM
I should also point out the timelines don't actually add up all that well.

In 1776, Haytham Kenway and Charles Lee are still alive. Hell, Haytham Kenway doesn't die for another FIVE YEARS. When Charles Dorian was taunting Shay Cormac about Connor having rebuilt the Assassin Brotherhood, the Colonial Rite was still extremely powerful and in good hands. In other words, Shay Cormac doesn't have any reason to go back to the Americas for years to come. It's entirely possible he sent Haytham a letter and got told, "I've got a handle on this kid."

Wrong as Haytham proved to be.

That's part of my reason for disliking ROGUE more than UNITY. UNITY told a new story in a new setting with new characters at the very least. ROGUE rides the coat-tails of superior games, cannibalizes all its features from earlier titles and brings nothing new to the table and its only value is as fanfiction to fans of the earlier Kenway games. It doesn't even work like that, its contradictory and nonsensical and you are asked to fill in the blanks...well my way of filling in the banks is that ROGUE never happened. Between Black Flag and AC3, there's only AC3 Prologue and Forsaken because those are consistent and not an insult to people who pay attention.

I always felt that Shay would have died at Connor's hands at some point. Because there are hints in the game. Otso Berg and Da Costa keep saying, "Okay Shay survived being attacked by the Assassins...Okay Shay is in 1770s Paris, that means Shay will survive the Seven Years War", that makes zero sense if Shay, like other protagonists would marry and have kids and we see no romance in the game for him. There are hints in ROGUE about where Shay's body might have been found. Otso Berg says that he investigated the Observatory but found it collapsed and destroyed some time in the 1780s with no Guardians in that era. Where did Abstergo get Shay's DNA from? I think they got it from his body there.

Charles_Phipps
05-15-2015, 04:47 AM
I always felt that Shay would have died at Connor's hands at some point. Because there are hints in the game. Otso Berg and Da Costa keep saying, "Okay Shay survived being attacked by the Assassins...Okay Shay is in 1770s Paris, that means Shay will survive the Seven Years War", that makes zero sense if Shay, like other protagonists would marry and have kids and we see no romance in the game for him. There are hints in ROGUE about where Shay's body might have been found. Otso Berg says that he investigated the Observatory but found it collapsed and destroyed some time in the 1780s with no Guardians in that era. Where did Abstergo get Shay's DNA from? I think they got it from his body there.

To be fair, 45 is more than well enough time for a rich Templar to have kids.

Mr.Black24
05-15-2015, 06:32 AM
Well, we have the answer in the Epilogue. Shay's response to the Assassin's destroying the Colonial Rite is to repay the Assassins by destroying the European branch of the order by starting the French Revolution. A revolution that destroys the pro-monarchy Assassins' influence. It's not a personal sort of revenge but Shay has moved past personal sorts of revenge. He's become more Templar than Assassin. Even so, it's entirely possible Shay DID try to hunt down Connor and one of them got killed in the process.

We won't know until we find out what they're up to.

On my end, I imagine Shay was too busy with the Revolutionary Templars to really do his own legwork and, besides, he was almost 50 in 1776. That's a little old for trying to kill Assassins two decades your junior.
Ezio was in his 50s during Revelations, and was still as strong as ever. Same can be said for Shay, especially since Templar wealth enables him to access all kinds of fresh food and medicine, he can live a better life than others can.

Oh and the French Assassins were never pro-monarchy. True they had members within the group, but it was explained in the story and by the devs themselves that they kept neutral at first during the course of the Revolution, only stepping in if an event would cause a colossal loss of life. There were even missions to help spread the word of the Revolution, such as the Woman's March, when Arno and his Assassins had to help those two women who I can't spell their names well, unlock the gate to help spread the march to other parts of Paris.

Charles_Phipps
05-15-2015, 06:39 AM
Ezio was in his 50s during Revelations, and was still as strong as ever. Same can be said for Shay, especially since Templar wealth enables him to access all kinds of fresh food and medicine, he can live a better life than others can.

True, but even then, Revelations was the last of Ezio's missions before his retirement. If Shay stayed til the Revolution was over he'd be way-way too old to participate in any direct assassin hunting.

But you never know, the characters MIGHT have had a final showdown.

Be a good idea for a comic book.

ACZanius
05-15-2015, 07:26 AM
Yes and you are Juno who knows everything.

Yes i do, look it up, they were quiet every time when they were asked how much time Rogue was in development so, no word nothing, it makes perfect sense that Rogue didn't even exist nor Shay at AC3 finishing line. It's self evident with story holes. Also how amazingly Rogue was super short.

Charles_Phipps
05-15-2015, 07:29 AM
Yes i do, look it up, they were quiet every time when they were asked how much time Rogue was in development so, no word nothing, it makes perfect sense that Rogue didn't even exist nor Shay at AC3 finishing line. It's self evident with story holes. Also how amazingly Rogue was super short.

Who cares, though. You know who didn't exist at the time of AC 2 and Brotherhood? Connor.

Edward Kenway is a retcon too.

So is the entire series since AC 1.

ACZanius
05-15-2015, 07:33 AM
You keep saying that like it means something and not a blindingly obvious sentiment. DUH.

When people ask "Why didn't Haytham mention Shay" they mean in-universe, not out of universe.

It's like you're pointing out water is wet. :p

Come on.


That's the thing, this conflict appears with the hole problem, " Why didn't Haytham mention Shay" Because SHAY DID NOT EXIST AT THAT TIME, i would just blast Darby or Fareese or Ivan Balabanov with these questions, guaran fkin teed they would say same thing because it makes sense.I guess the only option now is that people guess and stuff etc, when people saying "Shay has nothing to do with blablabla" nono,. Shay has everything to do with what Connor did later, he single-handedly un-did Shay's whole work. And of course i'm gonna stop here since this debate will make you running in circles all the time Shay-Connor-Shay-Connor yadyadayada. i just wish there was a sequence at end of Rogue like epilogue or something where it fast forwards and Shay gets stabbed by Connor, that would be full circle and epic,idk fast forward to 1785 or something after AC3 where we do that.

ACZanius
05-15-2015, 07:34 AM
Who cares, though. You know who didn't exist at the time of AC 2 and Brotherhood? Connor.

Edward Kenway is a retcon too.

So is the entire series since AC 1.

No it's not "WHO CARES" ****load of ppl care, it's not the same, stop comparing that, to current unique Shay situation we have 1776-1783 "Shay knowing about Connor, the box and killing Arno's Dad" thing it has nothing to do with what you said what-so-ever.

Charles_Phipps
05-15-2015, 08:29 AM
No it's not "WHO CARES" ****load of ppl care, it's not the same, stop comparing that, to current unique Shay situation we have 1776-1783 "Shay knowing about Connor, the box and killing Arno's Dad" thing it has nothing to do with what you said what-so-ever.

No, seriously, Shay is no different than any other retconned-in Assassin.

Anyone who says otherwise is just plain wrong.

Sorry.

ACZanius
05-15-2015, 08:37 AM
No, seriously, Shay is no different than any other retconned-in Assassin.

Anyone who says otherwise is just plain wrong.

Sorry.


Since you're that dumb that you can't see the difference between Shay problem and other Assassins is beyond me. What in the **** are you even talking about? We're talking about Shay/Connor 1776 -1783 thing what in the living hell has this to do with Connor or Edward? Where is the hole there? W're talking a complete different circumstance it has nothing to do what-so-ever with how Connor or Edward or Ezio even Altair was created. Sorry to call you dumb but the way you said it "Anyone who says otherwise is just plain wrong."

lol @ you

I am not gonna continue this and argue with you since your brain capacity does not reach common sense. Bye

Charles_Phipps
05-15-2015, 08:47 AM
Dude, I've written a blog for reviewing video games regularly for the past five years and I think you take this game too seriously.

I'd happily discuss the issue but, really, insults?

VestigialLlama4
05-15-2015, 09:06 AM
No, seriously, Shay is no different than any other retconned-in Assassin.

Anyone who says otherwise is just plain wrong.

Sorry.

My problems with Shay are not him being retconned in and the like but solely with him as a character. I mean Edward Kenway was retconned into Black Flag as well, nothing in FORSAKEN suggests "This man is important", he barely has any personality there before being killed off in a cheap fight.

Megas_Doux
05-15-2015, 04:10 PM
Poor Arno was a stillborn for many reasons, some that I can agree with and others that I just don┤t get.

VestigialLlama4
05-15-2015, 04:36 PM
Poor Arno was a stillborn for many reasons, some that I can agree with and others that I just don┤t get.

Not to be a troll or attack dog or anything, scout's honor, but what are the reasons you don't get?

Hans684
05-15-2015, 06:02 PM
After Arno helped taking down Napoelen he gets an mysterious artifact by Connor before retiring. He gets ssassinated by a woman with the last name Cormac under mysterious circumstances. No witnesses and his child[ren] is trained and taken care of by the Assassins.

Megas_Doux
05-15-2015, 06:36 PM
Not to be a troll or attack dog or anything, scout's honor, but what are the reasons you don't get?

I totally get the ones about story being, you know, bad. However Arno not having french accent and mostly Arno not being a one man army are reasons I do not understand.

And then there┤s the Ezio paradox, but that┤s another topic.....