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View Full Version : AC doesn't add anything to Syndicate



Sushiglutton
05-13-2015, 04:00 PM
Two siblings, Jacob and Evie, grow up in Crawley, a rustic borough just under 30 miles from the city of London (see Gamespot). As teenagers they move into the city and are faced with great technological advancements as well as extreme poverty. They form a syndicate, a criminal organization, but also one which empowers the powerless. Using their complementing talents Jacob and Evie move up in the London underworld.


This to me sounds like an interesting premise for a story/game (I'm no writer, so sorry if some sentences sound silly :) ).


The question is: What does AC really add to this fantasy?


Imo pretty much nothing. On the contrary all the AC tropes just detracts from what could have been an interesting story. Also from a gameplay pov adding AC on top doesn't make a lot of sense. Brawling, gunfights and carriages are three gameplay elements that are natural for Syndicate, but imo don't fit AC at all. Why would a sophisticated assassin run around with his gang brawling in the streets of London? The two fantasies don't match.


Syndicate would have been way more exciting if Ubi just had the guts to drop AC and move on to a more general history franchise. Ubi has the gameplay ingredients: melee, climbing, gunplay, stealth (the quality of these is debatable ofc). From these pieces I think they should just build stories they want to tell. That would free the creators from all the AC staples they feel forced to shoe-horn into every game. It would also lead to more excitement among gamers rather than the yawn accross all comment sections and forums from yesterday´s reveal.

D.I.D.
05-13-2015, 04:02 PM
You forget that, unless they completely mess this up, London has many real-life Templar buildings dating back to the 1200s. That alone makes London a vital location to host an AC game.

Namikaze_17
05-13-2015, 04:06 PM
It depends on how they go about it.

They always could have a mission in which he uses his gang as a distraction for an Assassination or something like that.

But yeah, I see your point.

Sushiglutton
05-13-2015, 04:09 PM
You forget that, unless they completely mess this up, London has many real-life Templar buildings dating back to the 1200s. That alone makes London a vital location to host an AC game.

I'm not saying London isn't a city that could host an AC game. I just think the premise described works very well without AC. As I said I think the AC fantasy clashes with the personal (Jacob/Evie) fantasy. I would have much rather followed those two on a more grounded, realistic journey.



Annualization!!!!

If you get the same meal EVERYDAY for weeks no matter how much you like it in the first place, you´ll ended up not only disliking it, but even hating it. Aside from that, imagine that the chief in order to mask the shame of cooking the same meal, is trying to make variations of the dish for the next day. Eventually, the he/she will run out of ideas.

Let's say a chef is cooking chicken every day. Like you say eventually he will run out of ideas. How about you give this chef a new main ingredient? Perhaps he will find his inspiration again.

By moving to a general history franchise you free the dev team's creativity. At the same time they can still reuse a lot of the ingredients (assets) from project to project, which I assume is necessary given the cost of modern games.

Shahkulu101
05-13-2015, 04:10 PM
You could say the same about AC4, but I thought the story was great because of the way it interpreted the Creed from the pirate perspective.

We don't always need to limited to strictly Assassin. An Assassin theme can bounce off things like gangs or pirates to make the story more interesting on the whole.

Democrito_71
05-13-2015, 04:12 PM
You could say the same about AC4, but I thought the story was great because of the way it interpreted the Creed from the pirate perspective.

We don't always need to limited to strictly Assassin. An Assassin theme can bounce off things like gangs or pirates to make the story more interesting on the whole.

Agree

The details which made me love Black Flag more than I did with AC3 was that they managed to interpreted the pirate theme successfully in the Assassin lore. So if Ubi to manage to interpret the gang culture and it's philosophy well into the Assassin lore in Syndicate, the game story might be more interesting just like Black Flags story was.

JamesFaith007
05-13-2015, 04:16 PM
And how is this different from, lets say, hanging up with thieves in Venetia or Rome in AC2 and doing missions for them?

Assassins always used people outside law - thieves, courtesans, pirates - to achieve their goals in previous games and to gain their trust they have to cooperate with them by their rules. And when Jacob want support from London gangs he have to hang with them from time to time to keep their respect. Or do you think that street gang would trust sophisticated gentleman who don't want make his hand dirty and keep distance from them?

Sushiglutton
05-13-2015, 04:16 PM
You could say the same about AC4, but I thought the story was great because of the way it interpreted the Creed from the pirate perspective.

We don't always need to limited to strictly Assassin. An Assassin theme can bounce off things like gangs or pirates to make the story more interesting on the whole.


I thought AC caused a lot of harm to AC4. First the MD portions which harmed immersion and pacing. Secondly the need to connect the past and present. The way Ubi does this is by adding yet another artifact which needs to be found.

I think Darby could have created a way more interesting intrigue without these constraints.




And how is this different from, lets say, hanging up with thieves in Venetia or Rome in AC2 and doing missions for them?

Assassins always used people outside law - thieves, courtesans, pirates - to achieve their goals in previous games and to gain their trust they have to cooperate with them by their rules. And when Jacob want support from London gangs he have to hang with them from time to time to keep their respect. Or do you think that street gang would trust sophisticated gentleman who don't want make his hand dirty and keep distance from them?

I think assassins should work in the dark. I don't think they should head a bunch of criminals in massive street brawls fighting for territorial domination.

I think the fantasy of Jacob and Evie would have been way cooler without AC. Just look at their silly outfits and the massive contraptions on their arms.

ze_topazio
05-13-2015, 04:17 PM
When you have a annual series, at some points it gets hard to be original.

Anyway I prefer a competent game that makes full use of the particularities of the series to deliver a really fun game than something that tries to be revolutionary for the sake of being revolutionary and fails spectacularly because of that.

D.I.D.
05-13-2015, 04:17 PM
I'm not saying London isn't a city that could host an AC game. I just think the premise described works very well without AC. As I said I think the AC fantasy clashes with the personal (Jacob/Evie) fantasy. I would have much rather followed those two on a more grounded, realistic journey.




Fair point. I'd love to see pure historical games, unshackled from the baggage of the Templar conflict.

I just think it's a bit early to assume that gangs are the be-and-end-all of the game. They might well be one mechanic and only part of the plot.

Farlander1991
05-13-2015, 04:18 PM
Eh, if you ask me, there's also the question of expanding what AC is. Right now not only AC means something different for everybody, and a lot of people are really narrow in their definition and don't like whenever it leaves the boundaries.

Personally, I'm fine with Ubi using one franchise for their historic open-world games that are connected together by lore. I mean, yeah, sure, it's a great marketing move in a sense that you don't have to market a new IP every time, but also as a consumer I know what kind of game to expect.

That said, I would be even more fine if the core gameplay would be strong in every game. Unity's core is the strongest, but I don't know if I should expect advancement or decrease in quality in Syndicate.

And it's also all a matter of implementation.

Everybody was complaining how AC4 was 'Pirate's Creed' and yet the game explored said Creed more than the four games before it. Had a wonderful story to but, and smartly used the lore elements (the Observatory is one of the best woven in MacGuffins to the story in the AC games so far, mostly because it simply just acts as a treasure that would exist as a MacGuffin regardless if it were an AC game or not, and yet it's clear why it's THE treasure and not just A treasure, plus Assassins and Templars are also smartly woven in).


I think Darby could have created a way more interesting intrigue without these constraints.

Edward's character arc requires a treasure MacGuffin that would represent his ultimate desire for riches and eventually would be his downfall. I think AC lore actually benefits because the treasure can be something beyond normal human inventions. Otherwise it could've been just buried treasure chest or something. Eh.

VestigialLlama4
05-13-2015, 04:23 PM
Personally I don't know what fitting the creed and AC means. I always say the "Nothing is True and Everything is Permitted" as a general all-purpose subtle theme. I don't think repeating the same six words over and over again like in Black Flag or emphasizing the Assassins as a lizard-worshiping cult with rituals in UNITY makes them more Assassin-y than AC3.

I prefer them to make it subtle and implicit than reiterate it all the time.

king-hailz
05-13-2015, 04:23 PM
Well gangs are going to be the main focus on this game... In the demo he says that Bloody Norra is a one of 7 Templar's in charge of gangs around London... My guess is that you and your gang will try and have to take over London so that London is not controlled by the Templar's.

However like people said before, the Assassin story is going to be shoehorned into the historical setting, Before people said the Modern Day was just shoehorned in! Now the actual assassin concept is being shoehorned in to fit the setting!

I think ubisoft is just finding easier ways to release a game each year to gain profit, no matter the cost of quality!

D.I.D.
05-13-2015, 04:29 PM
Well gangs are going to be the main focus on this game... In the demo he says that Bloody Norra is a one of 7 Templar's in charge of gangs around London... My guess is that you and your gang will try and have to take over London so that London is not controlled by the Templar's.

However like people said before, the Assassin story is going to be shoehorned into the historical setting, Before people said the Modern Day was just shoehorned in! Now the actual assassin concept is being shoehorned in to fit the setting!

I think ubisoft is just finding easier ways to release a game each year to gain profit, no matter the cost of quality!

It could be a major part, sure. But then again, if we'd been shown the Borgia Towers as the first thing in Brotherhood, and if we'd then been told that the map is divided between all these towers and we have to win control of them all to subvert Templar influence, we might easily have thought that was the basis of the whole game.

pacmanate
05-13-2015, 05:47 PM
I think its too early to assume that the game is just about gangs. There must be a templar mastermind as always.

TexasCaesar
05-13-2015, 06:28 PM
Two siblings, Jacob and Evie, grow up in Crawley, a rustic borough just under 30 miles from the city of London (see Gamespot). As teenagers they move into the city and are faced with great technological advancements as well as extreme poverty. They form a syndicate, a criminal organization, but also one which empowers the powerless. Using their complementing talents Jacob and Evie move up in the London underworld.


This to me sounds like an interesting premise for a story/game (I'm no writer, so sorry if some sentences sound silly :) ).


The question is: What does AC really add to this fantasy?


Imo pretty much nothing. On the contrary all the AC tropes just detracts from what could have been an interesting story. Also from a gameplay pov adding AC on top doesn't make a lot of sense. Brawling, gunfights and carriages are three gameplay elements that are natural for Syndicate, but imo don't fit AC at all. Why would a sophisticated assassin run around with his gang brawling in the streets of London? The two fantasies don't match at all.


Syndicate would have been way more exciting if Ubi just had the guts to drop AC and move on to a more general history franchise. Ubi has the gameplay ingredients: melee, climbing, gunplay, stealth (the quality of these is debatable ofc). From these pieces I think they should just build stories they want to tell. That would free the creators from all the AC staples they feel forced to shoe-horn into every game. It would also lead to more excitement among gamers rather than the yawn accross all comment sections and forums from yesterday´s reveal.

SO right. I know they'll never do it, since casuals wouldn't recognize the brand and fans would hate the removal of the lore, but the game's plot has always been terrible, with particular installments being more or less terrible.

Huge numbers of people bought Watch_Dogs, even though it wasn't part of an established franchise. Most people who bought AC4 probably did so for the pirates, not the assassins.

It's time Ubisoft unshackle themselves and make games that just aim to represent their time period as well as possible.

Ignacio_796
05-13-2015, 06:34 PM
Assassins Creed 4 BF was about a man who believes that freedom is to do what you want to, no matter the consequences. The Creed and the piracy represents the moral contrast between unlimited freedom and the responsability of dealing with the consequences. Edward learned that being a pirate and unbound himself of any law was not good for anyone, not for his family or his fellows pirates.
The Creed teach him the importance of being responsible of your actions. But he didn't learned that leson until the end of the game, he wasn't an assassins until the last chapter, when he dessisted from being a pirate.

Jacob seems to be a little bit like Edward, he does not seems to have the conviction or loyality with the Creed, he only cares about his own objectives. Problem is that he IS an Assassins: both him and his sister are born into the Brotherhood and he has the skills and equipment of an Assassin. But it seems that he uses his abilities for his own purposes, which would be fine if not for the fact that, again, he's an Assassin, he has to obey his superiors and the tenets of the Order, two of them being hold back your blade from the flesh of the innocent, and stay in the shadows... or in other words: DON'T F@%'!º^ SMASH INNOCENT PEOPLE WITH A STOLEN CARRIAGE IN A STREET FULL OF WITNESSES!!

Yes, Ezio burned the town in the Capadoccia, and every Assassins to date has killed hundreds of guards. But the thing is that the previous Assassins (except Edward) worked with the ideologies and methods of the Brotherhood and these actions were justified (well, sometimes at least, remember that we're not playing with superheroes, we're playing with people who live outside the law with the sometimes ambiguous cause of giving the humanity freedom, the greater purpose), and the guards ussually worked for the enemy forces or represented a threat for your mission, and because there a lot of guards that are designed not as characters, but as obstacles, the games give you free pass to kill them.

Also, we've been allies with people outside the law since ACII: thieves and mercenaries. But the thing is that mercenaries were not consider criminals, just amoral military forces that fight in wars with the side that paid them the most. And the thieves ussually we're portraid in these games with the romantic image of a thieve in mind. People who lived outside the law, those who stole from the rich to give to the poor. But in the end they weren't Assassins, they were separated Guilds or Associations that helped the Order to achieve equality. Jacob is an Assassins, but he wants to conquer London, he seems to use his Assassin skills and tools for his own purposes...
Maybe im wrong, but that is what i've seen in the demo .We'll see...

Farlander1991
05-13-2015, 07:08 PM
he seems to use his Assassin skills and tools for his own purposes...

There's not a single Assassin in the series who didn't start out like that.

Altair was a know-it-all who thought his way was better and didn't neither care nor understand the Creed.
Ezio used his skills for revenge (and like Edward, btw, he didn't join the Order until almost the end of the game), he couldn't care less about the Assassin cause as a whole for the first half of the game at least.
Connor joined Assassins to protect his people.
Arno joined the Assassins to fix his mistake.

Sorrosyss
05-13-2015, 07:20 PM
Wild stretch here. We know the hunt for the sages is still on. I suspect it carries over here. We know that the Phoenix project is about mapping the triple helix - and it is now confirmed that Darwin is in the game. Evolution, DNA... my guess is the meta plot, being the rebirth of Juno, is tied in to what we discover from this time period. Namely, finally finding the key to the triple helix. The Victorian setting is the backdrop to that, but as others have said there is a lot of Templar influence within the city. Hopefully it will play out in some way interesting.

Ignacio_796
05-13-2015, 07:30 PM
There's not a single Assassin in the series who didn't start out like that.

Altair was a know-it-all who thought his way was better and didn't neither care nor understand the Creed.
Ezio used his skills for revenge (and like Edward, btw, he didn't join the Order until almost the end of the game), he couldn't care less about the Assassin cause as a whole for the first half of the game at least.
Connor joined Assassins to protect his people.
Arno joined the Assassins to fix his mistake.

Altair was a member of the Order, and his purpose was to kill the templars who were searching for the arch, 80% percent of the game he followed the tenets.
Since the assassination of Vieri, Ezio started to learn what being an Assassin was, and he followed the tenets of the Creed. The fact that the ceremony of initiation was at almost at the end does no means that he wasn't an Assassins in hearth.
Connor had a good purpose that matched with the Creed ideologies, protecting your people was an apropiate objective for an Assassin.
The same goes for Arno.
Jacob IS an Assassins, but his purposes seems to be personal wealth and power (conquer London), nor his methods (gangs fighting, and wild driving) matchs the ways of
the Assassins.

Altair1789
05-13-2015, 08:22 PM
How do we know yet? There could be a much bigger spin to it, like in AC3
Native American boy sets out to save his village and fight the British. But it turned out his dad was a templar and he needed a first civilization amulet.
We're not supposed to know everything from the trailer

AssassinHMS
05-13-2015, 08:43 PM
I personally have no interest in what the current “AC” adds to these games.
From a gameplay perspective AC stands for (what I consider to be) “garbage”. It’s nothing more than luggage that serves to add a face to a “faceless” brand, such as:
- the iconic hood;
- the iconic leaps of faith;
- the iconic hidden blade;
- the iconic eagle vision;
- etc.

All of these things have been overplayed and have no purpose other than being ICONIC.
The name “AC” could stand for “meaningful” things like “good social stealth” or “Assassin simulator” but Ubisoft decided to take a different route after AC1.

To put it simply, “AC” does NOT stand for quality in any shape or form when it comes to gameplay.



As for the story, I personally don’t care about what “AC” has to offer:
Assassins vs Templars – Overdone and unrealistic to the point I can’t help but roll my eyes every time those two factions are yet again somehow connected to everything that’s going on.
Freedom vs Control – Overdone, there’s nothing new to see or learn from this struggle. These are just opposite concepts that don’t make sense without one another, there’s nothing to learn from pinning these two against each other, except that you need one in order to have the other.
And then there’s all the sci-fi stuff which I couldn’t care less at this point.


In conclusion, I think these games would be better off without any "AC" affiliation. No needless icons or iconic gimmicks (such as eagle vision), no forced mechanics just for the name’s sake and no overly convoluted plots...

Farlander1991
05-13-2015, 08:52 PM
Altair was a member of the Order, and his purpose was to kill the templars who were searching for the arch, 80% percent of the game he followed the tenets.

a) What if Jacob's purpose is to kill Templars in London and gangs is the way he chooses to do it?
b) The walkthrough's clearly an introductory mission to gang wars so it happens in the beginning of the game, i.e. an equivalent of Altair's 20%. Also, even when following the tenets Altair was still kind of an ******* for half of the game.


Since the assassination of Vieri, Ezio started to learn what being an Assassin was, and he followed the tenets of the Creed. The fact that the ceremony of initiation was at almost at the end does no means that he wasn't an Assassins in hearth.

Well, with that logic Edward was Assassin's in heart too (which, well, he was, otherwise he wouldn't become him, but that only means that Jacob might be an Assassin at heart as well). Ezio's main motivating force was revenge even after Vieri. There was a dialogue between him and Rosa where he says he doesn't understand what any of the things he was doing were for, because revenge, essentially, ran him dry. It's only after (near the end of the game, essentially) when he fully aligned with the Assassin ideals and started caring about the other people, not himself, culminating in his speech at Bonfire of the Vanities (though, kinda weird that with Rodrigo it's all about himself rather than the greater good, because he would've killed him if he fully stood for the latter... that said, Ezio's the one Assassin who always wanted to retire and never really wanted that fight).



Connor had a good purpose that matched with the Creed ideologies, protecting your people was an apropiate objective for an Assassin.
The same goes for Arno.

Those are still personal reasons though. And Arno was kicked out of the order because of them, btw.


Jacob IS an Assassins, but his purposes seems to be personal wealth and power (conquer London), nor his methods (gangs fighting, and wild driving) matchs the ways of
the Assassins.

ACB and ACR are essentially gang wars between the Assassins and Borgia/Byzantines, were both either use gangs (the groups of thieves, mercenaries and courtesans are essentially those, and both Borgia and Assassins utilize them) or duke out openly on the streets (ACR) to conquer the city and have it under their control.

I just want to point out that I'm not trying to defend Jacob, I don't have any opinion about him, neither positive nor negative (though I kinda like the dialog that we've seen). I just think it's strange that people here already have such strong opinions about him based on one short demo. People had similar opinions about Connor and Edward based on little tidbits and neither of them were in the end actually true.

Civona
05-13-2015, 09:00 PM
The Assassins have been known to enlist gangs and criminals to help them before. This story feels like an origin for one of the ways that Assassin crime contacts got set up.

The fact that you could separate the Assassins from the general premise of the game is not at all unique to Syndicate. That's true of every AC game. Even AC1 could have just been about the actual historical assassin order rather than a fictionalized version, and in that case it detracted from the context it chose too.

All historical fiction doesn't NEED to add things that weren't real to tell a story. History is fascinating and full of opportunities for stories on its own! That has always been true. AC has extra elements as a way of tying the disparate settings of its stories together into one universe. There's never been another excuse for it other than that.

It is specifically so they can tell wildly different stories in wildly different places throughout history, but have them all tied together under the same mechanics and franchise. Because it's hard to make a profit on expensive, large-scale games that aren't part of a franchise, and it' is impossible to make a profit if you completely re-invent mechanics every time you want to tell another story.

TL;DR: AC adds AC, just like all the other AC's did.

Journey95
05-13-2015, 09:38 PM
It was the same with Black Flag loved the game and the story was great but it was definitely not Assassins Creed

The latter would have been even better if they just dropped all the forced Assassins creed references and it seems the same will apply to Syndicate



They won't drop the name of course (because of $$$) but they should since the Assassins vs Templar stuff feels forced at this point
I'm excited for Syndicate but not because its an Assassins Creed game

Sushiglutton
05-13-2015, 09:56 PM
Eh, if you ask me, there's also the question of expanding what AC is. Right now not only AC means something different for everybody, and a lot of people are really narrow in their definition and don't like whenever it leaves the boundaries.

Personally, I'm fine with Ubi using one franchise for their historic open-world games that are connected together by lore. I mean, yeah, sure, it's a great marketing move in a sense that you don't have to market a new IP every time, but also as a consumer I know what kind of game to expect.

It's not that I don't want AC to leave its boundaries. It's that I like the games to leave AC. You are probably right that it's easier to market a known franchise. But AC also carries a lot of weight with it. I don't think the the name stands for quality in the gaming community at least. Ubi could have a name for a historical fiction series that would signal it was loosely connected to AC. Like it being a third person open world action game in historical settings.



Edward's character arc requires a treasure MacGuffin that would represent his ultimate desire for riches and eventually would be his downfall. I think AC lore actually benefits because the treasure can be something beyond normal human inventions. Otherwise it could've been just buried treasure chest or something. Eh.

This sounds like technical story telling stuff of which I know nothing. I just wanted more a focus on the Mary Read Edward relation (I know it wasn't romantic), the rise and fall of Nassau, the various pirate characters and how they fit in to that and so on. I enjoyed AC4's story more than any other AC story, but I still think the AC stuff brought it down a notch. Ofc removing it would have so drastically changed the plot it's hard to know what it would have been.




Well gangs are going to be the main focus on this game... In the demo he says that Bloody Norra is a one of 7 Templar's in charge of gangs around London... My guess is that you and your gang will try and have to take over London so that London is not controlled by the Templar's.

However like people said before, the Assassin story is going to be shoehorned into the historical setting, Before people said the Modern Day was just shoehorned in! Now the actual assassin concept is being shoehorned in to fit the setting!

I think ubisoft is just finding easier ways to release a game each year to gain profit, no matter the cost of quality!


I understand the Templars will be in the game. I just think it would have been much cooler if these gang leaders were more realistic and driven by motives other than the templar cause.




How do we know yet? There could be a much bigger spin to it, like in AC3
Native American boy sets out to save his village and fight the British. But it turned out his dad was a templar and he needed a first civilization amulet.
We're not supposed to know everything from the trailer

It's true we don't know pretty much anything yet. My point is that the premise is strong enough on its own that I would have been much more interested exploring it than doing another A vs T story. Especially since I think there's a major gameplay and tonal missmatch. We'll see though!


@AssassinHMS: Wow we finally agree on something :)!



The Assassins have been known to enlist gangs and criminals to help them before. This story feels like an origin for one of the ways that Assassin crime contacts got set up.


The fact that you could separate the Assassins from the general premise of the game is not at all unique to Syndicate. That's true of every AC game. Even AC1 could have just been about the actual historical assassin order rather than a fictionalized version, and in that case it detracted from the context it chose too.

All historical fiction doesn't NEED to add things that weren't real to tell a story. History is fascinating and full of opportunities for stories on its own! That has always been true. AC has extra elements as a way of tying the disparate settings of its stories together into one universe. There's never been another excuse for it other than that.

It is specifically so they can tell wildly different stories in wildly different places throughout history, but have them all tied together under the same mechanics and franchise. Because it's hard to make a profit on expensive, large-scale games that aren't part of a franchise, and it' is impossible to make a profit if you completely re-invent mechanics every time you want to tell another story.

TL;DR: AC adds AC, just like all the other AC's did.

These are all good points. It's just that I think we have reached a point now where it's just better to let the AC portion go.

As for mechanics my point is Ubi could still reuse a lot of stuff. For example Evie could have been an excellent climber and you could have broken in to places to steal and murder. Jacob is a fighter and the mechanics could have carried over from another historical game with brawling. Fencing, horse riding, shooting etc are things that fits into a lot of settings.

I just don't think it adds much that the take down animation is using the HB instead of Jacob's kukri. Or that there's a leap of faith. Or that there's a hoodie.

GoldenBoy9999
05-13-2015, 10:10 PM
My favorite aspect of AC is the history, so I definitely see where you're coming from OP. I had some of the same thoughts you did and so far this game looks like it would be better as part of its own historical series.

I'd love to have a series dedicated completely to the history (keeping an eye on Desilet's project), but for now I think AC should stay how it is. I love the history aspects, but part of what makes the games cooler to me is being this sneaky, high tech assassin who the general populace is unaware of. If the game was a simulation of an ordinary citizen, I may be interested for a while, but unless it was VR, I wouldn't stay entertained. That's why Syndicate seems disconnected from AC; Jacob is the leader of a gang who gets in brawls and drives carriages down the sidewalk. That's not the sneaky kind of assassin I've come to expect.

I'm all in favor of AC expanding what their games can include, but this simply doesn't seem like why I come back to the series every year. Yeah, I realize some people said the same thing I am now with AC IV, but I didn't particularly like it. There were some great segments of assassin-y gameplay and meaning of the creed analysis, but I simply didn't like the fantasy of being a pirate, the same as with being the leader of a brawling gang.

Many suggested Ubi break the naval gameplay off of AC and make it its own thing, and I wouldn't mind the same happening with the historical aspect. I'd play both series. But, if they don't, I'd like the AC influence to remain in.

Civona
05-13-2015, 10:58 PM
I definitely agree that if Syndicate hadn't been attached to AC at all, it would have probably gone over a lot better for a lot of people. However, Assassin's Creed is still Ubisoft's most profitable series, and they're a publicly traded company that has to hit certain marks each year. It's in their interest to try to keep the series going, regardless of negativity surrounding it.

I do think that the connected Templar/Assassin conflict allows for different types of commentary than could be done otherwise, but I wouldn't be horrifically sad if it were gone. I wouldn't be happy either. Above all else I want good stories in varied settings with solid gameplay.

I appreciate the Assassination layer for the focus on stealth, philosophy, and oppression throughout history that it brings. I don't think that freedom and control are ever going to be topics irrelevant to modern human society, and I think that you can always find new ways to talk about it.

I definitely understand your feeling, and I think that's something that has turned some people away from AC throughout the series: it is full of things that it doesn't NEED to have, narrative-wise. These are not sparse, understated, highbrow works of fiction. But that also makes them more accessible to people who don't already know that history is fascinating, and get invested due to the sci fi angle, or the historical conspiracy aspect.

Perhaps it would have been just as popular if it were simply a series of unconnected historical stories, or maybe it's the weird blend of nonsense that made it catch on so quickly? I don't really know the answer, but I know that it's irrelevant to anyone's personal preferences. You have every right to not be down with the continuation of AC.

Ignacio_796
05-14-2015, 01:16 AM
a)
I just want to point out that I'm not trying to defend Jacob, I don't have any opinion about him, neither positive nor negative (though I kinda like the dialog that we've seen). I just think it's strange that people here already have such strong opinions about him based on one short demo. People had similar opinions about Connor and Edward based on little tidbits and neither of them were in the end actually true.

Of course, my opinions are only based on what i've seen, i kinda liked Jacob in the cinematics, but i disliked the gameplay and i don't see him as an Assassin. Maybe the time will prove wrong, and i hope that is the case. As you say, I'll have to wait for the E3 trailers and the release to give a full opinion about him. This is just my first impressions about him.

pirate1802
05-14-2015, 06:55 AM
Black Flag's story was great as it was, but even then I have to agree that it felt like the overarching assassin story bared down upon it and it would have been much much better had it been truly unshackled. The story of a reckless pirate finally coming to his senses can as well be told without reference to any assassin or templar.

This one might well be the same case. Which is very sad, because if it was divorced from the franchise and truly allowed to shine BF could have been to pirates what RDR was to the wild west; a genre definer. This one will go the same way. Even if it is good it would be ultimately remembered as a part of a tired franchise.

VestigialLlama4
05-14-2015, 07:33 AM
Well, with that logic Edward was Assassin's in heart too (which, well, he was, otherwise he wouldn't become him, but that only means that Jacob might be an Assassin at heart as well). Ezio's main motivating force was revenge even after Vieri. There was a dialogue between him and Rosa where he says he doesn't understand what any of the things he was doing were for, because revenge, essentially, ran him dry. It's only after (near the end of the game, essentially) when he fully aligned with the Assassin ideals and started caring about the other people, not himself, culminating in his speech at Bonfire of the Vanities (though, kinda weird that with Rodrigo it's all about himself rather than the greater good, because he would've killed him if he fully stood for the latter... that said, Ezio's the one Assassin who always wanted to retire and never really wanted that fight).
---


ACB and ACR are essentially gang wars between the Assassins and Borgia/Byzantines, were both either use gangs (the groups of thieves, mercenaries and courtesans are essentially those, and both Borgia and Assassins utilize them) or duke out openly on the streets (ACR) to conquer the city and have it under their control.

I just want to point out that I'm not trying to defend Jacob, I don't have any opinion about him, neither positive nor negative (though I kinda like the dialog that we've seen). I just think it's strange that people here already have such strong opinions about him based on one short demo. People had similar opinions about Connor and Edward based on little tidbits and neither of them were in the end actually true.

The point is that the Assassins are deliberate outlaws and believe in the outlaw philosophy, which is that a honest murderer and open crook is more honorable than a hypocritical and corrupt authority figure. You know, "robbing a bank isn't as big a crime as owning one." The original Asasiyun became a cult figure among philosophers liek Nietzsche and William Burroughs for the same reason. In the Ezio games, his story is that the middle-class world in which his family was raised in was hollow and illusory, his family were outsiders and that when the chips are down its the city's outlaws - artists, thieves, courtesans, mercenari (Antonio gives a big speech in Venice when they are scouting the Doge's Palazzo) - who come and help his family. BLACK FLAG has the same point as well, better pirates than slave-owning empires.

It becomes complicated when they do revolutionary settings like AC3 and UNITY, it becomes harder for the outlaw philosophy to make sense. AC3 kind of modulated it via the Homestead, where ordinary Americans get along perfectly fine until government inference and nationalism forces them to take sides and create a national identity that ends up becoming more exclusive than what came before. UNITY however just didn't bother finding a solution, it just denied the problem didn't exist and hoped to distract people from noticing it.

SYNDICATE is actually closer to AC roots, in terms of the outlaw philosophy, then UNITY was. And I think that's what Ubisoft are planning to from now on. The only problem is street gangs in Victorian London was not as big a deal as what we see here. This is Gangs of New York transplanted to London. The only reason its not GoNY: The Game is that they wasted NY in ROGUE.

rprkjj
05-14-2015, 07:49 AM
The historical tourism, conspiracies and sci-fi spin are what set AC apart from other games for me. They're why I love the series, from a narrative standpoint. It's sad seeing that a lot of people don't care for the AC in AC anymore. Most likely a symptom of franchise fatigue or somewhat of a vacuum of other historical tourism games to compete with it. Which is a shame.

But I can agree that the series has become muddled. A fresh new take might be what it needs. What sucks though is that's unlikely considering the series is still a cash cow for Ubi, and they'll milk it for as long as they can. Some dev or another said something about making Syndicate the best AC game ever, but I think they meant that within the context of what they've been given.

And that is Unity. Unity to put in a new time period, to add a grappling hook, dual player characters, carriages, etc. I really wanna see what Ubi, or any developer for that matter can do when they really try to go balls to the wall, no holds barred with an AC game. Put the series in perspective and give us a masterpiece. But that is incredibly unlikely.

I don't mean to be negative, I'll undoubtedly enjoy Syndicate as long as they are able to polish what we've been shown. It does seem to be Unity's aspects refined and then some, and I really enjoy Unity as it is. The rough footage actually gives me some hope; fingers crossed they're baiting us with months old gameplay so we get a real sense of the game progressing as we near closer to launch

Shahkulu101
05-14-2015, 08:03 AM
You know, I'm not sure I'd want to play a historical open world game where you can't climb on the buildings and parkour on the rooftops. The core AC gameplay is just right at home in historical settings, and if you had an open world game in say, Florence, it would feel lame if you couldn't scale the massive cathedral. The fact you can interact with the architecture at such a close level brings a certain intimate quality to the cities. You see a building, you can go there, climb the thing and now in Unity explore it's interiors. There are a lot of open world games that have locations that are just inanimate props, there just for the scenery. In Assassin's Creed, the whole world is your playground and you build a connection with the sights and scenes. A historical game without that quality would feel quite hollow.

So while I acknowledge the quality of the games is falling, I wouldn't have my historical open world games any other way.

VestigialLlama4
05-14-2015, 08:19 AM
You know, I'm not sure I'd want to play a historical open world game where you can't climb on the buildings and parkour on the rooftops. The core AC gameplay is just right at home in historical settings, and if you had an open world game in say, Florence, it would feel lame if you couldn't scale the massive cathedral. The fact you can interact with the architecture at such a close level brings a certain intimate quality to the cities. You see a building, you can go there, climb the thing and now in Unity explore it's interiors. There are a lot of open world games that have locations that are just inanimate props, there just for the scenery. In Assassin's Creed, the whole world is your playground and you build a connection with the sights and scenes. A historical game without that quality would feel quite hollow.

So while I acknowledge the quality of the games is falling, I wouldn't have my historical open world games any other way.

^THIS. AC was always this hybrid pick-and-mix game, it had a messiness to it, that's actually its most winning quality. At any moment its many different games and it doesn't occupt a set genre, that's what made it so unique and refreshing, it made open-world games about something other than a sandbox for killing NPCs in many cruel ways.

Hans684
05-14-2015, 10:04 AM
The question is: What does AC really add to this fantasy?

The biggest question is: What is AC?


Imo pretty much nothing.

Indeed, is because we have done it before.


On the contrary all the AC tropes just detracts from what could have been an interesting story.

Just the historical one or the entire story?


Also from a gameplay pov adding AC on top doesn't make a lot of sense.

It does make sense.


Brawling, gunfights and carriages are three gameplay elements that are natural for Syndicate, but imo don't fit AC at all.

Yet we have done it before as Assassins, it's nothing new. This time it's just their main method, things change and so must they to continue their fight. If they can't adopt they will die eventually.


Why would a sophisticated assassin run around with his gang brawling in the streets of London? The two fantasies don't match.

The Assassins have always been running around with gangs.


Syndicate would have been way more exciting if Ubi just had the guts to drop AC and move on to a more general history franchise.

AC is unique because it's not limited by time and place, it can be everything because the history and the lore allow it.


Ubi has the gameplay ingredients: melee, climbing, gunplay, stealth (the quality of these is debatable ofc). From these pieces I think they should just build stories they want to tell.

But what if Syndicate is something they want to tell?


That would free the creators from all the AC staples they feel forced to shoe-horn into every game.

AC will never be shoe-horned in to history because it is history. A never ending war that's been going around everywhere in any time.


It would also lead to more excitement among gamers rather than the yawn accross all comment sections and forums from yesterday´s reveal.

But why do we yawn? Everyone here has their own reasons. Don't speak for all.

Charles_Phipps
05-14-2015, 01:12 PM
I worry this is a bit too much like "Saints Row 1: Steampunk Edition" before the series got all zanny.

But I'm hoping we'll have all the Conspiracy stuff.

What is AC?

"Parkour, stabbing, conspiracies, and open-world gameplay."

Sushiglutton
05-14-2015, 02:57 PM
You know, I'm not sure I'd want to play a historical open world game where you can't climb on the buildings and parkour on the rooftops. The core AC gameplay is just right at home in historical settings, and if you had an open world game in say, Florence, it would feel lame if you couldn't scale the massive cathedral. The fact you can interact with the architecture at such a close level brings a certain intimate quality to the cities. You see a building, you can go there, climb the thing and now in Unity explore it's interiors. There are a lot of open world games that have locations that are just inanimate props, there just for the scenery. In Assassin's Creed, the whole world is your playground and you build a connection with the sights and scenes. A historical game without that quality would feel quite hollow.

So while I acknowledge the quality of the games is falling, I wouldn't have my historical open world games any other way.


I agree with this completely! That said I think Syndicate could keep the climbing without being AC. I mean for example Eevie could be a master climber and burglar (Catwoman ;) ) who breaks into rich peoples home to steal stuff etc. Similarily in a pirate game you can have a lead who is a good climber.



Hans: It's correct that some of these elements have been used before in AC. To me they have always been a bit out of place. For example Ezio beating up cheating husbands, or Connor suddenly leading an army. I was never a fan of the faction/brotherhood mechanics. I prefer the assassins to work alone in the shadows. Their main method of influence being to strike at high value targets, sabotage and so on.

Gunplay has been inccluded in AC, but at a very low level. I think it would have made sense for syndicate to have proper TPS mechanics.

Of course this is subjective and I understand various fans feel differently (as illustrated by the responses in this thread). To me Syndicate would have been more exciting had it not included the typical AC staples.

Charles_Phipps
05-14-2015, 04:38 PM
Well, I can tell how I vote with my wallet.

Would I buy this game if it wasn't part of the Assassin's Creed universe?

From the looks of it?

No.

No, I wouldn't.

I don't care about being a gangster in Victorian London. I, however, will buy it because it's part of the AC universe.

Hans684
05-14-2015, 05:16 PM
Hans: It's correct that some of these elements have been used before in AC.

It's been since AC2.


To me they have always been a bit out of place.

Their intelligent psychopaths that hang around with all kinds of criminal, it makes perfect sense. To say other wise is a glorification of them.


For example Ezio beating up cheating husbands, or Connor suddenly leading an army.

Ezio is a hypocrite, he did the same. While is love was Christina he traveled around Italy seeping with others. Connor leading an army is something he do as Master Assassin over his new and old recruits, if he has to lead soldiers(patriots) to fight his cause he would to it.


I was never a fan of the faction/brotherhood mechanics.

They are a brotherhood, so leading Assassins with a lower rank makes perfect sense.


I prefer the assassins to work alone in the shadows.

Their organization went underground after Masyaf, they are hidden as an order but their methods by each Assassin will always attract attention.


Their main method of influence being to strike at high value targets, sabotage and so on.

History is the study of change, if something becomes static it means their dead.


Gunplay has been inccluded in AC, but at a very low level. I think it would have made sense for syndicate to have proper TPS mechanics.

Yet it does't contradict AC, guns encourage [social] stealth more than a sword ever will. A gun is a bigger treat, it has longer range, can have several bullets or many shoot at the same time. But I agree on that the gunplay mechanics could be better.


Of course this is subjective and I understand various fans feel differently (as illustrated by the responses in this thread).

Indeed it is.


To me Syndicate would have been more exciting had it not included the typical AC staples.

Seems like an interesting AC for me, Jacob is a flawed Assassin compared to his by the book sister Evie, a darker brotherhood instead of shining knights. But my main take on future AC's is if their as much filler as Unity of not.

Sushiglutton
05-14-2015, 05:56 PM
It's been since AC2.

Yeah that's what I said lol.



Their intelligent psychopaths that hang around with all kinds of criminal, it makes perfect sense. To say other wise is a glorification of them.

Nah they are an organization with a cause, not just some random criminals. It's an alternative uiniverse. If everything that happened in AC was true, then they wouldn't really be psychopats.



They are a brotherhood, so leading Assassins with a lower rank makes perfect sense.

I mainly disliked it because it broke stealth and was completely unrealistic (you were always being followed around, creepy). I also prefer the lone assassin fantasy.



Their organization went underground after Masyaf, they are hidden as an order but their methods by each Assassin will always attract attention.

To some extent yes. But running around in broad light street brawling, causing major destruction in a carriage chase and then stand and proclaim your name is perhaps a step too far?




Yet it does't contradict AC, guns encourage [social] stealth more than a sword ever will. A gun is a bigger treat, it has longer range, can have several bullets or many shoot at the same time. But I agree on that the gunplay mechanics could be better.

My point was that AC gun mechanics are pure trash. So in a setting where guns would make a lot of sense, building the game on AC mechanics does not.

Hans684
05-14-2015, 06:04 PM
Yeah that's what I said lol.

Fair enough.


Nah they are an organization with a cause, not just some random criminals.

Having a cause doesn't change they are intelligent psychopaths, they kill a lot of people. Both innocent and guilty. As said, it's glorification to say otherwise.


It's an alternative uiniverse. If everything that happened in AC was true, then they wouldn't really be psychopats.

They would, they're an organization of killers.


I mainly disliked it because it broke stealth and was completely unrealistic (you were always being followed around, creepy). I also prefer the lone assassin fantasy.

A subjective matter, for that to work we need to play an unimportant low ranked Assassin following orders.


To some extent yes. But running around in broad light street brawling, causing major destruction in a carriage chase and then stand and proclaim your name is perhaps a step too far?

Does't sound any different than what we have done before.


My point was that AC gun mechanics are pure trash. So in a setting where guns would make a lot of sense, building the game on AC mechanics does not.

It makes sense, it just poorly performed.

Charles_Phipps
05-14-2015, 06:10 PM
Having a cause doesn't change they are intelligent psychopaths, they kill a lot of people. Both innocent and guilty. As said, it's glorification to say otherwise.

History is built around people killing people, for good or ill.

Hans684
05-14-2015, 06:21 PM
History is built around people killing people, for good or ill.

True, but not everything involve a war between to hidden organizations of psychopaths. Their standard members are usually a fanatic with a black and white view that has a kill em' all because they are bad guys mentality. Does't sound sane.

Charles_Phipps
05-14-2015, 06:29 PM
True, but not everything involve a war between to hidden organizations of psychopaths. Their standard members are usually a fanatic with a black and white view that has a kill em' all because they are bad guys mentality. Does't sound sane.

Eh, sanity is relative. It makes less and less sense in the Modern Era, but the simple fact is 90% of history is the human race being ruled by a hereditary nobility of individuals who control the population through violence.

Turnabout is fair play if these guys are evil.

And by modern standards, most were.

The Assassins are no more innately evil than the Rebel Alliance and yes, the Rebel Alliance makes no sense in Real-Life but I don't have Eagle Vision or magical falling powers either.

Hans684
05-14-2015, 06:46 PM
Eh, sanity is relative. It makes less and less sense in the Modern Era, but the simple fact is 90% of history is the human race being ruled by a hereditary nobility of individuals who control the population through violence.

But do they support each other? No, power corrupts. It's like Game Of Thrones, each person has their own motive and goals.


Turnabout is fair play if these guys are evil.
And by modern standards, most were.

Fain enough.


The Assassins are no more innately evil than the Rebel Alliance and yes, the Rebel Alliance makes no sense in Real-Life but I don't have Eagle Vision or magical falling powers either.

Rebel Alliance? From Star Wars? Both sides(Templar and Assassin) is more alike than people like to think. It's easy to notice someone with a bias, I sometimes parody people like that by using the wording. It's why I "freak out".

Charles_Phipps
05-14-2015, 06:48 PM
Rebel Alliance? From Star Wars? Both sides(Templar and Assassin) is more alike than people like to think. It's easy to notice someone with a bias, I sometimes parody people like that by using the wording. It's why I "freak out".

Sometimes, they are alike. Other times, the Assassins are Robin Hood and the Templar are the Sheriff of Nottingham.

HDinHB
05-14-2015, 07:00 PM
How do we know yet? There could be a much bigger spin to it, like in AC3

We're not supposed to know everything from the trailer

We've seen several minutes of pre-alpha footage...more than enough to know everything we need to know for a conviction, at least by the evidence rules of the forum. :rolleyes:


You know, I'm not sure I'd want to play a historical open world game where you can't climb on the buildings and parkour on the rooftops. The core AC gameplay is just right at home in historical settings, and if you had an open world game in say, Florence, it would feel lame if you couldn't scale the massive cathedral. The fact you can interact with the architecture at such a close level brings a certain intimate quality to the cities. You see a building, you can go there, climb the thing and now in Unity explore it's interiors. There are a lot of open world games that have locations that are just inanimate props, there just for the scenery. In Assassin's Creed, the whole world is your playground and you build a connection with the sights and scenes. A historical game without that quality would feel quite hollow.

So while I acknowledge the quality of the games is falling, I wouldn't have my historical open world games any other way.

Yep

Hans684
05-14-2015, 07:22 PM
Sometimes, they are alike. Other times, the Assassins are Robin Hood and the Templar are the Sheriff of Nottingham.

And wise versa.

Charles_Phipps
05-14-2015, 07:28 PM
And wise versa.

Any particular times you see that?

Hans684
05-14-2015, 07:37 PM
Any particular times you see that?

Revelations, AC3, and Black Flag are 3 examples. I take everything to consideration, so a simple reply would be to little. Those are worthy threads of the case on their own. Each explaining each sides goals, aims methods etc... While also pointing out hypocrisy and double standards when judging both sides by fans.

shobhit7777777
05-18-2015, 12:27 PM
Gangs - a means to an end

I'm wondering whether the Gang gameplay will borrow elements from Shadow of Mordor's Nemesis system.

Also, I think the question we need to ask is....what is Syndicate adding to AC?

I'm not a historical tourist - although its nice that AC does that
I'm certainly not in it for the narrative
I'm not in it for a Sam Fisher lite experience

I am however interested in being an urban guerrilla and icing important political figures.

Sushiglutton
05-18-2015, 08:04 PM
I am however interested in being an urban guerrilla and icing important political figures.


Why does it has to be under the AC umbrella though? Evie and Jacob could have fought for the poor/working class thrugh guerilla tactics and violence. Building criminal gangs, assassinations, sabotage, burglary etc.

Why add this extra layer which just makes the game feel samey and out of place?

dimbismp
07-16-2015, 02:07 PM
I was thinking about it last night,and i completely agree with you Sushi(dunno if i posted in this thread before).
Right now,it would be the best solution for everybody to completely drop the "assassins vs templars" plot and focus on creating 3rd person historical open worlds,for 2+1 reasons:
1.The most obvious reason is that the AC plot really prevents from having a better overral plot.The american revolution,the golden age of piracy,the french revolution,victorian london...Regardless of how good these AC stories are,they would be better if the writers could just write their own standalone story.That way we would have a bigger variety.In each AC game,we have to have multiple targets,some first civ. stuff etc.
Plus the game would benefit from gameplay point of view,as the developers could focus on mechanics not fitting to an AC game

2.The AC plot itself also cannot reach a potential.In every game,me and oher fans,hope for some cool AC stuff,portrayal of the philosophy etc.The thing is that this stuff sometimes cannot be combined with the overral plot.

Bonus:The animus creates far too many restrictions,like "we cannot see the death of the ancestor","we cannot have multiple protagonists"(well,until ACS),"we cannot make big decisions and have branching storylines" etc,which also make the plot predictable

Sushiglutton
07-16-2015, 05:08 PM
Yeah I still stand by this thread, even more so after E3 where Syndicate again failed to excite. An AC-type game like Horizon: Zero Dawn on the other hand was super well received. Cutting lose from AC would have generated more excitement imo and would have been better for the game creatively as well for the reasons you give Dimb!

shobhit7777777
07-16-2015, 08:27 PM
Why does it has to be under the AC umbrella though? Evie and Jacob could have fought for the poor/working class thrugh guerilla tactics and violence. Building criminal gangs, assassinations, sabotage, burglary etc.

Why add this extra layer which just makes the game feel samey and out of place?

Because Assassin's Creed has the right mechanics for urban guerrilla gameplay in an old timey world. social stealth, unparalleled mobility, urban setting - It has to be AC. Another IP with the same core mechanics and experience is idiotic from a financial standpoint.

m4r-k7
07-16-2015, 09:17 PM
The fact that the game is based around gangs is a hint in itself that Ubisoft are running out of ideas. I mean this is Assassins Creed - it shouldn't be about a group of people brutally punching each other in open gang warfare. Thats one thing Unity got right. I mean in Brotherhood it worked well because your "gang" in a sense were a group of assassins that could be used to silently take out your enemies.

Saying that, AC 4 used pirates (which are the exact opposites of Assassins) yet it was one of the greatest games in the series as they were implemented phenomenally well and the story was also fantastic, linking the game back to assassins.

I am only looking forward to this game because it is set in London. So far the gameplay doesn't excite me one bit, especially after playing fantastic open world games this year like The Witcher 3 and Arkham Knight. But hey, I thought AC 4 would suck but I ended up loving it. All we can do is wait and see. On a plus side I am kinda happy that I am not hyped this year.

LoyalACFan
07-16-2015, 09:27 PM
Because Assassin's Creed has the right mechanics for urban guerrilla gameplay in an old timey world. social stealth, unparalleled mobility, urban setting - It has to be AC. Another IP with the same core mechanics and experience is idiotic from a financial standpoint.

Not really true. Watch Dogs proved that a new IP can put up huge sales numbers (it was Ubi's biggest launch day success ever IIRC) despite having significant similarities to AC. I hypothesize that would be even truer now, considering the increasing fatigue surrounding this franchise. The only difference is that Syndicate is set in a historical era. They could easily have made a game about London gangsters without any of the trappings of AC; in fact, some of those trappings directly butt heads with the gangster fantasy. Would the impoverished leader of a rough-and-tumble grassroots street gang be a parkour master? Use primarily melee combat? Sneak around in a hood? Carry a fantastical steam-powered rope launcher? I really don't think so. An authentic-feeling 19th-century gangster game would play out more like an urban Red Dead Redemption than anything resembling Assassin's Creed. Of course there could be more of an emphasis on stealth or melee than Red Dead if they saw fit, but IMO the trademark elements of Assassin's Creed feel tacked onto this game. It would have been better served to launch as Syndicate: Gangs of London or something versus launching as an Assassin's Creed vehicle.

Edit- dammit, now I've talked myself into wanting a Victorian Red Dead spinoff :p

Xstantin
07-16-2015, 09:53 PM
It would have been better served to launch as Syndicate: Gangs of London or something versus launching as an Assassin's Creed vehicle.

I'd buy that.
I think even visually a lot of the look of Syndicate is kinda shoehorned into AC aesthetics. Usually I really like the way the protag and enemies look (ACIII was really good with that imo) but Syndicate is a bit weaker, at least going by the previews - the whole gang look is a bit off somehow with their sashes and Edward's hood - they're basically recolors lifted from Gangs of New York, switching blue to yellow

Maybe I'm a bit harsh here but they look like a bunch of clowns who are trying way too hard. I hope I get used to it and it won't be as jarring when I play the game.

Dishonored was heavily stylized but it got the whole gang vibe way better imo.

ninja4hire10
07-16-2015, 10:47 PM
You know, I'm not sure I'd want to play a historical open world game where you can't climb on the buildings and parkour on the rooftops. The core AC gameplay is just right at home in historical settings, and if you had an open world game in say, Florence, it would feel lame if you couldn't scale the massive cathedral. The fact you can interact with the architecture at such a close level brings a certain intimate quality to the cities. You see a building, you can go there, climb the thing and now in Unity explore it's interiors. There are a lot of open world games that have locations that are just inanimate props, there just for the scenery. In Assassin's Creed, the whole world is your playground and you build a connection with the sights and scenes. A historical game without that quality would feel quite hollow.

So while I acknowledge the quality of the games is falling, I wouldn't have my historical open world games any other way.


Oh, this. Absolutely THIS.

Game quality isn't what it once was for sure, but it's good enough to keep me coming back year after year 'cause I crave that historical playground. To me, THAT's what makes an AC game an AC game, that's the cake. Everything else (stealth kills, the sci-fi First Civ gobbledy****, getting neck-stabby), that's icing.

But in relation to the multi-interpretive "What Is a Real Assassin's Creed Game?" question, Jacob going all GTA with carriages in London and making a big spectacle by punching everybody into submission may not be, by purist definition, "assassin-y," but that very well may be the point. I stand by what I said in another post in another thread: there are two protags this time around; one's by-the-book (Evie), the other (Jacob) not so much. That might be a plot point and may lead to them squaring off.

We didn't write it, we didn't develop it, so we don't know.

pacmanate
07-16-2015, 10:59 PM
I don't even know why people thing gangs is a new/bad thing.

ATM it sounds like it works EXACTLY like the Assassin Recruits and thats all.

LoyalACFan
07-16-2015, 11:39 PM
I don't even know why people thing gangs is a new/bad thing.

ATM it sounds like it works EXACTLY like the Assassin Recruits and thats all.

Mechanically, yes, it's basically the same thing that's been in and out since ACB, but given that they're trying to make it jive more with an actual historical gangster image instead of the purely fictional Brotherhood, there doesn't seem to be any call for the Assassin's Creed brand to be present here.

steveeire
07-17-2015, 12:49 AM
You are not going to like it no matter what anyone says.

LoyalACFan
07-17-2015, 01:17 AM
You are not going to like it no matter what anyone says.

Well, maybe not, but I'd rather have expectations set to zero and get pleasantly surprised by the reception than get hyped and disappointed yet again.