PDA

View Full Version : new on the board, looking for some help



PapaStalin
01-16-2004, 05:57 PM
Hi all, i'm new here, just looking for some help on improving my flying and combat skills.
I own both IL-2 and FB for quite some time but never really got into it, was mainly destroying bombers from time to time.
But recently i started flying against fighters (ok i admit it's so damn addictive), and would like to learn how to fight them properly.
Since i'm terrible at TnB, stile that fits me best for now is BnZ in a 109 G2. I'm only flying G2 for now. It would be great if experienced pilots could explain how to fight in this bird properly, like real pilots did in WWII.
Also can anyone point me to FB tracks database (tracks section at www.il2sturmovik.com (http://www.il2sturmovik.com) is outdated!), or at least where can i find maneuvers shown in detail. The only place where i've found FB tracks is a Russian site http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&forumid=52&x=12&y=10, but i've seen them all
Perhaps my post is confusing sorry for my English, but to make things clear, i can destroy fighters, but there's a LOT missing in my skills, i would like to learn how real pilots fought in G2, what maneuvers they used...
Usually i just go straight up, at about 100 km/h turn nose down and choose a target, when in range shoot short burst and go straight up again, and i repeat that process till there's no more bad guys (jesus, when i write it, it sounds even more lame). It works great against AI, but i know any human would own me, as i constantly make my self voulnerable when near stall speed (for some reason AI can't catch me even with faster planes).
Well that's it, i'll post few of my own tracks, if someone has the time to watch them, and explain to me here what i'm doing wrong and what should i be ****, i would appreciate it very much.
Here are 3 tracks (zipped)
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=276661

PapaStalin
01-16-2004, 05:57 PM
Hi all, i'm new here, just looking for some help on improving my flying and combat skills.
I own both IL-2 and FB for quite some time but never really got into it, was mainly destroying bombers from time to time.
But recently i started flying against fighters (ok i admit it's so damn addictive), and would like to learn how to fight them properly.
Since i'm terrible at TnB, stile that fits me best for now is BnZ in a 109 G2. I'm only flying G2 for now. It would be great if experienced pilots could explain how to fight in this bird properly, like real pilots did in WWII.
Also can anyone point me to FB tracks database (tracks section at www.il2sturmovik.com (http://www.il2sturmovik.com) is outdated!), or at least where can i find maneuvers shown in detail. The only place where i've found FB tracks is a Russian site http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&forumid=52&x=12&y=10, but i've seen them all
Perhaps my post is confusing sorry for my English, but to make things clear, i can destroy fighters, but there's a LOT missing in my skills, i would like to learn how real pilots fought in G2, what maneuvers they used...
Usually i just go straight up, at about 100 km/h turn nose down and choose a target, when in range shoot short burst and go straight up again, and i repeat that process till there's no more bad guys (jesus, when i write it, it sounds even more lame). It works great against AI, but i know any human would own me, as i constantly make my self voulnerable when near stall speed (for some reason AI can't catch me even with faster planes).
Well that's it, i'll post few of my own tracks, if someone has the time to watch them, and explain to me here what i'm doing wrong and what should i be ****, i would appreciate it very much.
Here are 3 tracks (zipped)
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=276661

Fillmore
01-16-2004, 08:52 PM
I havn't looked at the tracks, as I assume they are from offline.

Get online and make some tracks against humans and post those for comments.

Commenting on tracks against AI is rather difficult as what works against AI isn't what works against humans and viceversa.

Also how to fight properly depends upon what your opponent is flying as well as what the mission is (if it is other than simply shoot down enemy planes).

JG7_Rall
01-16-2004, 08:53 PM
Well, as much as I hate to dissapoint you, you can't really look to how pilots flew in real life to dictate how you fly online. Sure, the 190 excelled in diving in real life and it sure as hell does in IL2, but remember that most of the time in real life you would strive for alt. advantage, use cloud cover, always have a wingman (!!!), and they usually wouldn't know you where there until you made your first pass on the bandit. This is hard to achieve due to limited team work in IL2 (AI are a bit better but not the way a human could help-try finding a close friend to fly with you) and A/C labels REALLY limit the element of surprise.

As far as flying the G2 goes, BnZ is decent, but the guns really aren't powerful enough for this. I'd recommend diving on your opponent always, but then just fighting him in teh vertical from there, while using limited turns. Don't waste your time climbing and positioning again for another dive attack-G2 climbs like a beast. Do that, practice deflection shooting at high angles, and hopefully find a wingman! and you should be golden.

Hope I helped, I usually fly either the G6/AS or the FW 190 A9, D9 early online but ALWAYS fly the Emil for pleasure, because it's my favorite plane and it represents a time period (BoB) when the planes where relitively equal in performance (emil vs spit) and it all came down to the pilot http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Plus, it's dead sexy. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

JG7_Rall
01-16-2004, 08:56 PM
PS- I just used the 190 diving explanation as an example-I know you where asking about the 109 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bearcat99
01-16-2004, 10:14 PM
I cant offer much in the way of advice...as i get my butt handed to me 80% of the time I fly online... just have fun man... and welcome aboard!!

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | IL2 Manager (http://www.checksix-fr.com/bibliotheque/detail_fichier.php?ID=1353) | MUDMOVERS (http://www.mudmovers.com/)

PapaStalin
01-17-2004, 01:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fillmore:

Get online and make some tracks against humans and post those for comments. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately my net connection is so bad i don't think "minesweeper" would play without lag http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif But some day hopefully...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Also how to fight properly depends upon what your opponent is flying as well as what the mission is (if it is other than simply shoot down enemy planes).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea Fillmore, that perfectly makes sense, i was simply used to starting QMB missions all the time, and shooting different planes.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG7_Rall:
I'd recommend diving on your opponent always, but then just fighting him in teh vertical from there, while using limited turns. Don't waste your time climbing and positioning again for another dive attack-G2 climbs like a beast. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the tip, i'll try it. Thing is everyone is saying 109's are e fighters, don't turn with russian fighters, so i never tried it.

Bearcat thanks, all u guys allso, really appreciate the quick reply.

One thing remains, can someone plz point me to where i can find tracks for FB (other than mudmovers), thanks

AirBot
01-17-2004, 03:02 AM
Generally speaking, 109s are indeed more suited to E-fighting, but that doesn't mean you are forbidden from turning with Russian planes. Depending on the 109 you're flying, and what your opponent is flying, it's quite possible to turn with him for a bit to achieve a deflection shot. I've even seen some great 109 pilots that can often turn with the best Russian birds, but generally speaking you want to avoid prolonged turnfights that will drain your E and leave you slow and vulnerable.

PapaStalin
01-17-2004, 03:40 AM
I generally try to avoid horizontal maneuvers because i tend to lose SA, and moving POV gets complicated. I find it very difficult to perform hard maneuvers and change POV at the same time. Horizontal fight (for me) usually leads to rolling scissors and that's where i'm worst at. So i spot target from above, get in close, shoot, and escape right up. JG7_Rall is right, it can be a waste of time .

MiloMorai
01-17-2004, 06:31 AM
PapaStalin, you do know that the AI can do manuevers that you can't do, never mind acceleration/deceleration. This makes trying to 'fly' historically harder.

I would suggest doing 1 on 1's (same era a/c) in QMB, experimenting in what tactics/manuevers work &gt; starting with historically correct tactics and then modifying/changing them to suit Il-2/FB. Use historical ammo load &gt; no unlimited ammo.

F19_Ob
01-17-2004, 07:33 AM
Hi there and welcome to the board.


Tactics are discussed frequently on the board so u will get a lot of info.
U may also find it interresting that many have their own idea and style of fighting and tactics, just as in real life.


I mostly fly the bf109 and like the variants from g2 and up the best. Nowadays almost all of my flights are online, even test and practice flights, since im very fond of human opponents and especially their ability to make mistakes.( even the aces make them ).



I often "discuss" 109 tactics and participate and try to give "suggestions" on how to improve
online fighting.

I also belong to the crowd who frequently use the 109 as a turnfigher as often as BnZ like in Real Life. Some dont like this at all, so the dilemma for U is to sort the info and use what u think is valid for your style.

Anyway ........If u click on a board members name u can find his/her previous posts.

Since I often comment or write posts about 109 tactics U can search through my name to other posters who are interrested in the same subject. ( i find lots of info this way )



I have started a series of posts with tactical suggestions for online fighting. where I try to improve the skill of my fellow 109 pilots, especially newbies ( or Noobs )but the tactics are valid for all. I include online tracs and explanations.

Although I am experienced I make mistakes too, so in the next post I will show more of mistakes and corrctions, also with longer tracs+ explanations.



The idea is to practice on thinking ahead and try to minimize mistakes and the standard "reactiontactics" where u let the enemy dictate the fight and U only react on his moves.
This is ofcource an ongoing process , for aces too, and by only being aware of this process can be a start to improved fighting.


If u are interrested, feel free to peek at my first post in the series below.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=77210539&r=60810539#60810539


My next post is on the way ( in a day or so )



Cheers.

F19_Ob
01-17-2004, 10:17 AM
A few comments on your tracks papa stalin.


U flew a g2 with wing pods ,wich makes it a bit heavier, but i think u conserved speed quite well and culd pull fairly hard on the stick without flipping over.

there was nothing wrong with the firing passes and pull ups.

Your only problem is the ai.Wich makes u fly more casual and not on the edge.



In the track with the four p39's I can say that u would not be able to do that online easily, especially not against 4.

You Would not be able to do it at all if the p39's were aware of u, since they would only have to turn away from u so u couldnt draw enough deflection. And they would all try to spray 50 caliber at u from distance to criple u.


another thing !
Try to use the maximum outzoomed wiew as much as possible, this way u see much more of whats going on around( above all the rear sector) u and u can more easily track hardturning and multiple enemies.

Also flying the 109 online calls for a constant watcharound routine.= If u are flying alone u are checking your six and the surroundings often( with gentle turns and rolls)


If u later try online flying I suggest that u try to find servers with simpler settings and icons in the beginning while getting used to this "new" type of flying, cos on the more difficult servers like Greater Green the aces know the tricks and tactics. Normally they spot casual flyers from miles away.
This makes it very hard on newbies but remember that all the aces also were noobs once.


Online the enemy also try to give u the hardest deflectionangle (90degrees) so the only easy shots u get is when u succed in a bounce, and u always can be bounced yourself by a better positioned enemy, so u also need to know more about evasiontactics and the disadvantages in the enemyplanes u fight against.



I will soon post a new article with tracks about online fighting.

some of the tracs will contain fighting against the p39 and explanations of the tactics used and mistakes made.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JG7_Rall
01-17-2004, 11:18 AM
Since the 109's aren't your tipical TnB fighters (even tho some ppl use it in this manner-I find it silly to do against those Russian wonders) it really relies on tactics, and knowing your model down to the very bone. The E and F series are faily light and are qutie manueverable, so you can do more TnB fighting with these. However, once you get up towards the G6's-K4, you really need to work it's BnZ capabilities effectively. I find that the G2 is sort of in between-It maneuvers well but is stronger and has a more powerful engine. It also lacks the armament for good BnZ passes so that's why I try to avoid it. I myself never turnfight in a 109, and only turn when im lining up for a shot or doing scissors to get someone off my tail. I always fight in the vertical because of it's excellent climb rate and rather good diving capabilities. And like I said before, I can't stress enough that you need to practice A LOT doing high angle deflection shooting, because you can often get away shooting down ppl with insane deflection shots when you're doing vertical scissors etc. IF you're a good shot. Also, having a wingman is nice too!

AirBot
01-17-2004, 12:25 PM
Just a note: You'll want to get NewView if you haven't already. It's an app that allows you to pan your views smoothly and do lots of other useful things with the views. It will help your SA immensely.
Of course, TrackIR is better, but poor sods like me can't afford one http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

PapaStalin
01-17-2004, 02:01 PM
MiloMorai

Guess AI does act funny sometimes, what I find difficult is that ACE AI frequently evades my attack at the last second even when he can not see me

ob_swe

thanks for the info, i'll certainly dig out your old posts

Unfortunately im limited to sp, as my connection is very bad, but as I'm only starting out guess AI will have to do.

I try to use wide view often, only going with normal and zoomed when I come close and shoot. Did u mean that u use wide view even while shooting?, I have 19" monitor and cant aim well because targets are too small

Airbot

Yea i have NewView, great program, a definite improvement in smooth panning


Thank u all for replying! I haven't seen a board this friendly in a long time!

F19_Ob
01-17-2004, 04:54 PM
I have a 19" monitor too.

tomorow or the day after i will post a new set of online tracks and u will be able to see how I use it. ofcourse this is only a suggestion from my part, but actually I get a better platform for close range tracking when outzoomed. for example if I need to chamge the deflection angle drasticly or try to force my opponent in to scissoring.

At long distance i use inzoom to see the direction of a possible enemy.
at normal firing range I can use both normal zoom or out zoomed.

And at close range I use the outzoomed view to get maximum info from the target and the surroundings.


When drawing 90 degree deflection on a fast enemy the target often dissappear far below Your nose and often when u pull very hard u side slip a bit and target vering out of aim, then it is easier to correct the angle if u have the wider view.

Also directly after a furballkill I often make a turn and look behind in back+ up sector with the maximum field of view.

It will be much clearer on the track, and this is one of the reasons I show my tracks bcause its much easier to understand a tactical move or error if u see it.



All my tactical advices are only suggestions...
and a situation can have different solutions.

PapaStalin
01-18-2004, 06:08 AM
ob_swe

found your previous posts, tons on usefull info,

i'll try out your suggestion

watched your tracks, man u must have a computer inside your head. First u had to calculate a good intercept point, and than u shot a small burst at a fast, high deflection target which was obscured from view... now i can see that there's a loooong way ahead of me.

concerning your tracks, could u please compress them (theres winzip, winrar, winace). If u have .trk versions of same tracks, can u post them too, they're smaller so u can post longer tracks.

I'm looking forward to seeing more of your tracks