PDA

View Full Version : I think some US Patriots ought to apologise to Oleg...



XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 02:09 AM
Not just the Americans, others in the West too...

I say this because in the past Oleg has been quite rudely accused of Russian/Soviet bias, making US planes not so good and/ or paying little no attention to them. Some even called him a backward communist. Rubbish of course...

Well, I took the temptation and d\l the 1.2 Beta. I set up a QMB with the P51 escourting B17s with FW D9s on the attack and well... It`s an amazing experiencing, even better than EAW.

Oleg`s done America proud. I think he`s done better than the any other FS including Western ones, which would probably have only focused exclusively on the west.
It may not be perfect, but it`s better than everything else.

Funny, It takes a Russian, an outsider to the West, to show how it should be done- including more nations than any other sim.

I can`t wait till the Spitfire arrives.



"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 02:09 AM
Not just the Americans, others in the West too...

I say this because in the past Oleg has been quite rudely accused of Russian/Soviet bias, making US planes not so good and/ or paying little no attention to them. Some even called him a backward communist. Rubbish of course...

Well, I took the temptation and d\l the 1.2 Beta. I set up a QMB with the P51 escourting B17s with FW D9s on the attack and well... It`s an amazing experiencing, even better than EAW.

Oleg`s done America proud. I think he`s done better than the any other FS including Western ones, which would probably have only focused exclusively on the west.
It may not be perfect, but it`s better than everything else.

Funny, It takes a Russian, an outsider to the West, to show how it should be done- including more nations than any other sim.

I can`t wait till the Spitfire arrives.



"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 02:11 AM
Ok, where can you download it?

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 02:16 AM
I don't see what you're hinting at. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 02:18 AM
Sure Burt !!!!!!!!!

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 02:19 AM
Not to rain on the parade but this west VS east bias thing is pretty overrated. To be certain, there are some in Russia and whatnot who have their qualms and are just as vocal about it as there are here and elsewhere.

The fact that you don't see it here is because this is more than likely a largely American dominated forum and second to that is the European crowd. So yes...there is a Western bias here if you will because thats the demographics of this board.

Effectively: FM arguments and complaints of bias are not specific to one demographic. They infact are present everywhere, its just less apparent because its done on different forums in different languages.

Frankly the whole affair is rediculous outright, but thats just me.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 02:50 AM
[John Wayne voice]

You paint with a mighty broad brush, there, pilgrim, and from where I come from people think twice before they lump everyone together.

[/John Wayne voice]

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 02:52 AM
I think a 'Sea Fire' ought to be extinguished.

Mainly, your demand is directed at a way too general audience. Also,who are you to say someone should apologize to anyone? Get off your high horse! If you want to express an opinion stating what you feel was inappropriate, I say fine, do so. But, do not morally put yourself above others.

If you wanted to refer to some specific people posting here what you say is wrong, and quote them, then do that, also. At least it is clear who you are talking about.

Also, as pointed out, concerning IL-2/FB, that type of thing probably goes on in every other message board in every other language. Your post reeks of anti-west. So, take you anti-American/anti-west prejudices somewhere else. Or, better yet, nowhere at all.

Lock this piece of crap thread, please.

<p align="center">http://forums.ubi.com/i/icons/Symbols/symbol-us-flag.gif </br></br><font size="1" color="white"><u>RealKill</u></font></p><font size="1" color="#4A535C">

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 03:41 AM
i am from the west and i agree with seafire

THE SIMPSONS WERE CREATED TO MAKE FUN OF MIDDLE AMERICA... BUT MIDDLE AMERICA DOESN'T GET IT
http://so-rawk.net/quizzes/famguy/peter.gif (http://so-rawk.net/quizzes/famguy/)
Which Family Guy Character are you? Take the Quiz! (http://so-rawk.net/quizzes/famguy/)

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 03:44 AM
just this is my opinion but i think if oleg made a flight sim about Russia, he should stick with the eastern front things. if someone bought a game about the east they should live with what they have, not want the west in a east game(know what i mean {excuse the grammar}). if you really want a mustang, spitfire, ect. go buy a game with what you want in it. its like telling a country singer to start rapping.
before i bought il2 i didn't know Russia had and air force during ww2.i knew everything about the British and Americans but on tv or really anywhere in Canada or the USA it is hard to find things on the Russians in ww2 or there history in general.

actually if you look into the history of Russia like i am doing in (gr.11 world history) it is actually very interesting. like the extremes people go through to survive. like in Leningrad, the people were starving for 3 years until they were liberated.
THE SIMPSONS WERE CREATED TO MAKE FUN OF MIDDLE AMERICA... BUT MIDDLE AMERICA DOESN'T GET IT
http://so-rawk.net/quizzes/famguy/peter.gif (http://so-rawk.net/quizzes/famguy/)
Which Family Guy Character are you? Take the Quiz! (http://so-rawk.net/quizzes/famguy/)

Message Edited on 11/03/03 07:48PM by Lou69

Message Edited on 11/03/0307:49PM by Lou69

ZG77_Nagual
11-04-2003, 03:50 AM
AS an American I can only say over here we don't apologize - we DISEMBLE. If I'm not mistaken (and if I am it must be someone ELSES fault) it was the dastardly FRENCH who invented the word bias - and if they didn't it's only because someone else stole the idea from them and did it first - Just like they stole the idea of 'chips' from the insane but humorous and polite British and called them 'French Fries' - so they could sabotage (another French word) congress by making those fine profit-making american lard muffins feel weird for gratifying their eloquent oral sphincters with nasty french potatoes.

Anyway - as my mom used to say "son, you buttered your bread; now lie in it"

Well; I hope that clears things up.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 04:05 AM
huh? US fans brought good stats to the table and proved a point using numbers - ie. p47 roll rate.

p40 is still off http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Skies Virtual War
Forum: http://fogwar.luftwaffe.net/forums/index.php
Website: http://www.forgottenskies.com
Visit 609IAP at http://takeoff.to/609IAP

http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg

Agnus Dei, Qui Tollis peccata mundi, Miserere nobis. Dona nobis pacem

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 04:30 AM
Glad you said some Seafire. Course I dont think its an American or West bias at all from everything I have seen in the forums, there are people everywhere arround the world being critics for Oleg.

Personally sure there may be some things a little off, and I must say unless you ever really flew the planes in the sim theres no way to verify that they dont fly as they did. Oleg has done better than any other developer so far when it comes to getting us a realistic feeling sim.



<table style="filter:glow[color=0033FF, strength=4"><tr><td> <font color="FFFF00">31stFG Eagle
Commanding Officer

31st Fighter Group VFG

http://www.31stfg.com
</font></td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 04:35 AM
Lou69 wrote:
- i am from the west and i agree with seafire

So, you think Westerners are the only people that have been harsh to Oleg? Wow, where have 'you' people been?

If 'you' want apologies to Oleg, 'you' should damn well be asking them from other peoples as well. Bigots!

What about this:

SeaFireLIV wrote:
-
- Funny, It takes a Russian, an outsider to the West,
- to show how it should be done- including more
- nations than any other sim.

A Westerner did not create IL-2 FB. So what? Is that suppose to make Weterners a lesser people than the Russians? Really? That is very well what could be construed from what you wrote, and actually, what 'I' believe you meant. Is FB the most technological advancement of this worlds time? What will SeaFireLIV, or you, Lou69, say next, that our astronauts train with FB? (Even if they did/do, that would not be the only training they get.)

Do not insinuate Weterners are stupid because a Russian created FB, and a Westerner did not. Please.

Some people in these forums have a certain degree of prejudice/bigotry and are too ignorant to know it. That would include some of the Oleg bashers, AND the people who accuse only a certain peoples of being just that.

-

CO_Eagle_31stFG,

You cannot even give credit to SeaFireLIV for saying 'some'. Not when he just points a finger at only Westerners.

-

Too amusing!

EDIT: Clarification.

<p align="center">http://forums.ubi.com/i/icons/Symbols/symbol-us-flag.gif </br></br><font size="1" color="white"><u>RealKill</u></font></p><font size="1" color="#4A535C">

Message Edited on 11/03/0309:38PM by RealKill

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 04:40 AM
I have no complaint against Oleg as a person. I will say that his flight sims have pleased fans all over the world. What we see is the work of 1C-Maddox, and we were tanatalized from the very beginning, prior to the initial release of IL2_Sturmovik. Recall all the praises heaped on that sim before it was released? The combat flight sim community lay itself prostrate at the feet of the new Master. It is the way of the world that leaders must respond to their subjects, and give them some of the things they ask, or risk being disconnected from the main body of support-power_base (as applies to any system we now know).

Certainly, 1C_Maddox deserves great credit for the works it produced. I see where efforts are being made to accommodate the community. Equally certain is the support the community gives 1C-Maddox. More importantly, the community has deeply embraced 1C. The bar was raised by 1C. But it is not at the top. The community wants that unattainable top. My point is this: On the road to combat sim perfect (ww2 style) 1C_Maddox has strived to be the (bus) driver to take us where we want to go. The driver must listen, and the bus is always full of voices (not all singing praises, but they paid their fare).

Finally, it's the web and all it's power that makes everything open for discussion. Everyone finds resources to support his point of view about nearly anything (FMs?), just by browsing the good old www. If some of that is in conflict with 1C, that is not always bad. Be flattered that the criticism is there. 1C has worked it's Pavlovian experiment quite well. The updates are,and have been the bells which make us drool, and make us EXPECT MORE, and BETTER of everything 1C does.

whoops! my eyes just crossed. that's enough for now.
PS, Politics aside, any western simmer not familiar with the real battles of the Eastern Front might do well to check out that desparate struggle. The West has not seen the like of that yet. I don't care who's side you read. You will be chilled to the marrow at any rate.

Speed is Life! But being a good shot comes in handy too. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 05:29 AM
I guess we'll see how the finished product turns out - beta p51 certainly is nice. There's a bunch of annoying people who've had the misfortune to put down in writing that they're positively certain that Oleg will undermodel the P51 due to him being a sneaky bastard russian. Can't wait for people to start pulling those quotes out with the search feature.



http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/worker_parasite.jpg

Need help with NewView? Read this thread. (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=yzbcj)

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 06:00 AM
I didn't give credit, I simply was a little glad to see he didn't just do the normal "Bash em all" thing. He cut it down to "some".

I know he did say some Americans and westerners. Let him be the biased one.





<table style="filter:glow[color=0033FF, strength=4"><tr><td> <font color="FFFF00">31stFG Eagle
Commanding Officer

31st Fighter Group VFG

http://www.31stfg.com
</font></td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 06:19 AM
CO_Eagle_31stFG wrote:
- I didn't give credit, I simply was a little glad to
- see he didn't just do the normal "Bash em all"
- thing. He cut it down to "some".
-
- I know he did say some Americans and westerners. Let
- him be the biased one.

Fair enough.

EDIT: CO_Eagle_31stFG, just to be clear, the "Too amusing!" was not directed at you. (Although, I believe you know this.)

<p align="center">http://forums.ubi.com/i/icons/Symbols/symbol-us-flag.gif </br></br><font size="1" color="white"><u>RealKill</u></font></p><font size="1" color="#4A535C">

Message Edited on 11/03/0311:23PM by RealKill

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 06:49 AM
its weird how when its time for me to go to sleep here in california U.S.A the UBi rooms are so little like eveyones asleep too .hehe just though i share that .anyways this was a dumb subgect to post .wats gonna come out of it .mod plz lock this up fast before it gets ugly .

BTW ..MAYBEY U SHOULD APOLOGIZED TO OLEG FOR DOWNLOADING HIS BETA 1.2 ..WHEN ITS NOT EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE OUT YET !!!!!since ur talkin bout apologizing !!

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 07:02 AM
the truth is that oleg has risen the quality of this sim trough the roof....NOW Im gona start thinking of putting the original IL2 to the side because theres now somehting to be had in FB FM's

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 07:06 AM
You can argue all you want, but when Oleg defended his numbers by claiming the VVS testing done under Josef Stalin was far more accurate than western testing he lost all credibility in that particular argument.. There are reasons why data can be the way it is for performance..

Sometimes its because the testers lied for their own reasons. Sometimes its because they were unfamiliar with the test subjecct, or lacked the ability to serive and maintaint it to spec. The fuel and other required systems fluids are also a big part of peak performance.

If Olegs a "communist" he's doing a pretty lousy job of it by being a successful corporate manager.. Those type of claims are childish. But you cannot dispute that in some areas over cecrtain specific points he did NOT act in an objective manner to get the most accurate data.

That being said, I hope the people that whine about plane X being too slow, or climbing too slaw based on the specs are testing right now and will come forward to dispute the numbers if they are TOO fast, or climb TOO well..

If you want accuracy, you have to let the chips fall where they may and ALWAYS strive for accuracy, even when your "Pet" plane is involved..

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 07:16 AM
Read the Guidelines before posting in ORR

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zuhqm

Thank you

<p align="center">
<A HREF="http://www.mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/il2_fb.htm" TARGET=_blank>
http://mudmovers.com/temp/snoopysig1.jpg</A>
<A HREF="http://mudmovers.com/sturmovik_101/FAQ.htm" TARGET=_blank>
Unofficial IL-2 Community FAQ</font></A>
Hunter82's Tech Pages (http://mudmovers.com/tech/tech_pages.htm)
Forgotten Battles Reality Check (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_065a.html)
</font>