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SpiritOfNevaeh
05-11-2015, 07:08 PM
Sources: You Can Play As A Woman In Assassin's Creed: Syndicate

http://kotaku.com/sources-you-can-play-as-a-woman-in-assassins-creed-sy-1703598017?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Twitter&utm_source=Kotaku_Twitter&utm_medium=Socialflow

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--zX90lQZ6--/1247750830243440043.png

Almost a year after publisher Ubisoft made headlines for not including female protagonists in Assassin’s Creed Unity, today we’ve got news that there will be a playable woman assassin in the next entry of Ubisoft’s mega-series, according to two people familiar with the game.

This fall’s Assassin’s Creed, which will be officially announced tomorrow as Assassin’s Creed: Syndicate, will give players access to two main characters: Jacob and Evie (pictured above in concept art leaked to Kotaku). They’re brother and sister, said a source, and they’ll be heavily involved in the criminal underworld of Victorian London, where the game is set. (We hear it’ll be out this fall for PS4, Xbox One, and PC.)

There have been playable female heroes in Assassin’s Creed games before, most prominently in 2012’s Assassin’s Creed: Liberation, which starred an assassin named Aveline and was reissued for consoles last year. Still, Ubisoft ran into backlash last year during E3 after Assassin’s Creed Unity creative director Alex Amancio said in an interview that the dev team cut female assassins from that game’s co-op because they’d require “double the animations.” Amancio’s comments were mocked by those who felt that the couple hundred or so developers working on the average Assassin’s Creed game could surely have managed. A subsequent statement from Ubisoft noted that “we recognize the valid concern around diversity in video game narrative,” and pointed to the diversity—in terms of gender and ethnicity—of past Creed protagonists.

Shortly after Amancio’s remarks at E3, Far Cry 4 director Alex Hutchinson said that his team was close to adding a female hero but “[didn’t] have a female reading for the character” or “all the animations” in place. He described the omission as frustrating and predicted that such options would be easier to implement in the future.

These soundbites, extrapolated and turned into headlines that didn’t always do justice to the complexity of the issue, led game developers and critics to speak out against Ubisoft on Twitter using the hashtag “#womenaretoohardtoanimate.” So it wouldn’t be shocking to see Ubisoft play up Evie’s role as they start marketing Syndicate tomorrow and at E3 in June.

From what I’ve heard, Jacob will still likely qualify as the game’s main character. The balance in story missions may favor the brother about 75% to 25%, according to a person familiar with Syndicate, who spoke under condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk publicly about the game. Syndicate will not have any multiplayer modes, according to that source, but you’ll be able to swap between Jacob and Evie while exploring the world between missions.

Ubisoft did not respond to a request for comment this morning.

Whatever workload issues were affecting Unity don’t seem to be slowing down the Assassin’s Creed series; Ubisoft seems committed to releasing at least a handful of Assassin’s Creeds, big and small, every single year, and in fact, there are already three others planned for 2015: last month’s Assassin’s Creed: Chronicles: China and two upcoming sequels, set in India and Russia (the China game stars the female assassin Shao Jun). Last year’s main entry, Unity, was a mess in many ways, although the last-gen Rogue was lauded by critics. We’re all hoping this one will be more like the latter.

GunnerGalactico
05-11-2015, 07:12 PM
I'm kinda excited about this. :D

Radman500
05-11-2015, 07:14 PM
but Jacob is still the main character right?

LoyalACFan
05-11-2015, 07:14 PM
That character design is ****ing amazing, but... I really don't know how I feel about this, for several reasons. One being that I'm not confident at all that they'll be able to pull off a narrative with two main protagonists. The second being that this will honestly STILL be seen as a cop-out by Ubisoft since the woman isn't the main hero. If they were going to make a female hero, they should have just gone all the way.

SpiritOfNevaeh
05-11-2015, 07:16 PM
but Jacob is still the main character right?

Yes, according to the article, they say that they're siblings and he;s the main MAIN protag.

ze_topazio
05-11-2015, 07:19 PM
In before I-Like-Pie45 asks for incest.

Radman500
05-11-2015, 07:19 PM
guys

Evie...is it possible that she might have relation to Eve?

LoyalACFan
05-11-2015, 07:20 PM
guys

Evie...is it possible that she might have relation to Eve?

I really hope not because that would be cheesy as f*ck

Radman500
05-11-2015, 07:22 PM
so how is this going to work in terms of animus/helix storyline?

Matknapers18
05-11-2015, 07:22 PM
As cool as this sounds, I get the impression that this was only incorporated due to the female animation controversy that occurred last year. It feels like a woman is being made playable for the wrong reasons. Not because they genuinely believe it can improve both the gameplay and story but because Ubisoft want to prove a point. "Look at us! We CAN animate Female characters!". It seems like they want to win back those who were angry last year rather than producing a quality dual-protagonist story. I hope thats not the case. Because this could be really cool. I hope Im not sounding sexist, because thats not my intention. Im very excited for this.

LoyalACFan
05-11-2015, 07:27 PM
Alright, I'm just going to say this now; if she dies at the end, whoever is writing this story needs to get slapped. Not just because it's a tired trope, but because Ubisoft REALLY needs to get their sh*t together regarding the role of female characters. They've dropped the ball oh so very much lately.

ze_topazio
05-11-2015, 07:27 PM
They just have to give the explanation that the memories of them both are being blended inside the Animus, remember that Animus makes a virtual recreation of the world the ancestor saw, since both ancestors were in the same place they can share the same virtual world at the same time and when you change characters you are just changing the perspective.

VestigialLlama4
05-11-2015, 07:30 PM
You see cyber-activism works. Insult and humiliate Ubisoft and they will start thinking out of the box. God bless their guilty conscience.

I am more convinced then ever that these leaks are intentional. They are using Kotaku to kind of send feelers and create positive vibes so as to pre-empt shut-ins. It's cute how transparent they are. They are adorable.

GunnerGalactico
05-11-2015, 07:31 PM
As much as that excites me, I can't help but feel that they only created a female protag just to appease fans because of all the backlash they had received when they showcased the co-op trailer for Unity. One concern is that this might be a case whereby the secondary character might overshadow the main protag ie: Haytham and Connor, Arno and Elise. The other might be whether having a second protag might do something to elevate and add to the story or is she there just for the sake of it.


EDIT: Sorry Matknapers, didn't see your post there.

LoyalACFan
05-11-2015, 07:31 PM
They just have to give the explanation that the memories of them both are being blended inside the Animus, remember that Animus makes a virtual recreation of the world the ancestor saw, since both ancestors were in the same place they can share the same virtual world at the same time and when you change characters you are just changing the perspective.

I am wholly confident that they can come up with some BS explanation for Animus shenanigans just like they always do.

Radman500
05-11-2015, 07:33 PM
I am wholly confident that they can come up with some BS explanation for Animus shenanigans just like they always do.

probably the helix got a upgrade that allows perspective shift or something

Namikaze_17
05-11-2015, 07:36 PM
Dat top hat doe...

But I'm really indifferent to this; On one hand, playing as two protagonists sounds great.

On the other, this could be another "this secondary character is better than the main character! They should've been the main protagonist!" thing.

SixKeys
05-11-2015, 07:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrMawW5J6NU

poptartz20
05-11-2015, 07:37 PM
Honestly... I hope that they handle this right... Because this is actually pretty cool! I like how we will be using 2 assassins for the first time in one game! It kinda gives me that GTA5/TLoU feel.

I also hope that the experiences which each character is different, also with similar yet different abilities so it doesn't feel like we are playing as the same person the whole time. Once again, I believe they have all the right components and elements to take AC back to it's days of Glory. they have just got to make sure there is a balanced solid formula.

right now I'm looking at ticket prices for the hype train. Lol.

Radman500
05-11-2015, 07:38 PM
since its seems like the missions will favor Jacob...i wonder if Evie was probably always planned as a supporting character, but seeing the backlash they made her a secondary protag and gave her a few missions during mid development?

SpiritOfNevaeh
05-11-2015, 07:40 PM
Well until its confirmed tomorrow, they might do a Haytham/Connor thing where Jacob is the main character and the woman is only in it for like 25% of the story.

pacmanate
05-11-2015, 07:40 PM
a 75/25 split seems so stupid.

Also very anxious about two protags when AC3 suffered from this and AC Unity didn't have a good story with 1.

Pandassin
05-11-2015, 07:41 PM
This is actually really interesting. I hope Ubi can pull it off, her character design looks pretty epic.

Honestly I was hoping for a father/daughter thing, but heck, this sounds just as great.

As long as she doesn't die at some point in the story, I'm happy.

poptartz20
05-11-2015, 07:44 PM
I've been hearing about a 75//25 split as well.... which I mean if the pacing of it works it could be fine.

m4r-k7
05-11-2015, 07:45 PM
Nooone is speaking about the fact that the game won't have any multiplayer. I don't care at all but I am sure this is gna piss some people off

pacmanate
05-11-2015, 07:48 PM
Nooone is speaking about the fact that the game won't have any multiplayer. I don't care at all but I am sure this is gna piss some people off

AC has always been a story driven game and im glad there is no MP again. More resources for the SP and CoOp

killzab
05-11-2015, 07:50 PM
AC has always been a story driven game and im glad there is no MP again. More resources for the SP and CoOp

I think it means there won't be coop either ... I wouldn't mind since it was part of why Unity sucked ...

poptartz20
05-11-2015, 07:51 PM
Yeah... I never cared for multiplayer in the first place. Granted I will say it's been slight more fun this time around.. but overall the experience has been lack luster for me. Also I hope it will give them the chance to fully focus everything they have into the single player mode of the game and making it a truly immersive and in-depth experience.

then again this is probably just wishful thinking.

D.I.D.
05-11-2015, 07:51 PM
S
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--zX90lQZ6--/1247750830243440043.png



Praises to the concept artist and whoever hired him/her. The clothes. Unff. I hope Jacob is similarly interesting, and doesn't have to wander about in a ridiculous hood for the entire game.

Anyway, do this, do more of this. I don't particularly need one character to be the vehicle. Make two, make three, make as many as you like (or that audio data requirements will allow). GTA V would have really suffered if you were in one character's shoes for the whole game, but the swaps gave it an extra lease of life.

LoyalACFan
05-11-2015, 07:51 PM
Nooone is speaking about the fact that the game won't have any multiplayer. I don't care at all but I am sure this is gna piss some people off

It's always been an SP-centric series though, and although I'm sure there'll be some grumbling at first, I don't think the loss of MP will turn too many people away. In fact, it may even inspire a little more confidence in the series when people see that they're trimming the fat on an already strained franchise.

LoyalACFan
05-11-2015, 07:54 PM
a 75/25 split seems so stupid.

Also very anxious about two protags when AC3 suffered from this and AC Unity didn't have a good story with 1.

Agreed. I really hope her missions are interspersed with the main ones, instead of just being one gigantic chunk at the beginning or end. I can see that being catastrophic for pacing, just like Haytham's section was.

Also, free-roam with her is an absolute must.

Pandassin
05-11-2015, 07:54 PM
Honestly I'm glad MP is gone. It means there's more focus on the SP which is what AC is about in the first place.

wvstolzing
05-11-2015, 07:55 PM
I really hope not because that would be cheesy as f*ck

Which pretty much guarantees there will be some connection -- to vaguely allude to in a cutscene.

Namikaze_17
05-11-2015, 07:56 PM
Going by the pic, I guess Evie will be customized too?

m4r-k7
05-11-2015, 07:57 PM
The whole London criminal underworld thing sounds really interesting. Hope there is lots of mystery.

Shadownexus7
05-11-2015, 07:58 PM
A brother/sister dynamic, that's cool but i hope that there is a MD in this game that does not consist of just reading emails. Fingers crossed.

GunnerGalactico
05-11-2015, 08:01 PM
The whole London criminal underworld thing sounds really interesting. Hope there is lots of mystery.

Hence why it is called Syndicate.

LoyalACFan
05-11-2015, 08:01 PM
Going by the pic, I guess Evie will be customized too?

Maybe, but the pic isn't evidence of that; it's probably just a string of different concept pieces for her default look. Pretty common practice. Case in point:

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140224155140/assassinscreed/images/a/ad/Early_Connor_Concepts_-_1.jpg

wvstolzing
05-11-2015, 08:01 PM
Anyway, do this, do more of this. I don't particularly need one character to be the vehicle. Make two, make three, make as many as you like (or that audio data requirements will allow). GTA V would have really suffered if you were in one character's shoes for the whole game, but the swaps gave it an extra lease of life.

Yeah, I hope they follow the example of GTAV -- and *not* Arkham City, with the Catwoman episodes.

LoyalACFan
05-11-2015, 08:03 PM
Yeah, I hope they follow the example of GTAV -- and *not* Arkham City, with the Catwoman episodes.

Hey, at least Arkham is redeeming themselves with the new one. Seamless swapping between four characters.

Democrito_71
05-11-2015, 08:04 PM
I'm surprised and very happy about having 2 playable protagonists and that Jacob and Evie are siblings!

I hope Ubi pulls this of and that they give Jacob and Evie separate side missions like the separate side missions in GTA5 and that both Jacob and Evie great written main characters and that both are voiced by great, talented actors:cool:

wvstolzing
05-11-2015, 08:04 PM
Seamless swapping between four characters.

What? Where? How? Really? When was this announced?

rob.davies2014
05-11-2015, 08:05 PM
Eugh, this is so stupid! Just give us a proper female protagonist already! None of this 25% nonsense.

And she'd better not die. It's such an awful cliche and Ubisoft are better than that.

m4r-k7
05-11-2015, 08:05 PM
Yeah, I hope they follow the example of GTAV -- and *not* Arkham City, with the Catwoman episodes.

Wait what, I want it to be done like Arkham, but just with more interaction between the two characters. In arkham they each have their own movement styles, combat animations etc and you can free roam with them.

Altair1789
05-11-2015, 08:10 PM
So Mr. and Ms. Jazz Age Junkies :rolleyes:

Honestly though, I agree with Matknappers, they did it for the wrong reason I feel. Pretty exciting though, I wonder how co op will play into this (if it exists)

My guess is customization is gone, but co op will be sorta like ACB MP, pick a character and do your thing. Either way, so far I'm not too into the outfits :P The 3 outfits sorta hints at a Liberation- style social stealth, right?

LoyalACFan
05-11-2015, 08:11 PM
What? Where? How? Really? When was this announced?

Yeah there's a new mechanic called Dual Play where you can switch between Batman and one of his allies (Robin, Nightwing, Catwoman), even in the middle of a combo. Plus it's been confirmed that the side characters have their own unique quests and such as well.

LoyalACFan
05-11-2015, 08:12 PM
So Mr. and Ms. Jazz Age Junkies :rolleyes:

Honestly though, I agree with Matknappers, they did it for the wrong reason I feel. Pretty exciting though, I wonder how co op will play into this (if it exists)

My guess is customization is gone, but co op will be sorta like ACB MP, pick a character and do your thing. Either way, so far I'm not too into the outfits :P The 3 outfits sorta hints at a Liberation- style social stealth, right?

Nope, there's no MP. And the three outfits thing is just concept art, they do that all the time (string together a bunch of potential looks in one image). I don't see any reason why customization would be gone, it was a huge hit.

pacmanate
05-11-2015, 08:13 PM
At least this means one thing, she will have her own parkour animations

VoXngola
05-11-2015, 08:13 PM
Let's hope this wasn't shoehorned in.

Who am I kidding.

wvstolzing
05-11-2015, 08:14 PM
and you can free roam with them.

Only when the story is done, and there's not *that* much left to do (apart from respawning enemies -- and for that kind of thing the challenge maps offer better gameplay anyhow).

In GTAV they were able to strike an amazing balance between the 3 characters inside the same open world, even during the main campaign.

LoyalACFan
05-11-2015, 08:14 PM
They kind of fibbed/exaggerated about the "male-female relationship that AC has never done before" thing though, didn't they? ACB focused pretty heavily on Ezio and Claudia.

Namikaze_17
05-11-2015, 08:14 PM
So Mr. and Ms. Jazz Age Junkies :rolleyes:

Be gone with you!


They kind of fibbed/exaggerated about the "male-female relationship that AC has never done before" thing though, didn't they? ACB focused pretty heavily on Ezio and Claudia.


True, I was expecting something else.

Exaggerated indeed.

wvstolzing
05-11-2015, 08:15 PM
Yeah there's a new mechanic called Dual Play where you can switch between Batman and one of his allies (Robin, Nightwing, Catwoman), even in the middle of a combo. Plus it's been confirmed that the side characters have their own unique quests and such as well.

I watch everything on the Arkham Videos channel -- was this on the last interview thingie? I wasn't paying enough attention to that.

pacmanate
05-11-2015, 08:15 PM
They kind of fibbed/exaggerated about the "male-female relationship that AC has never done before" thing though, didn't they? ACB focused pretty heavily on Ezio and Claudia.
I didn't think it was heavily focused, more of a side distraction that they dont get a long.

LoyalACFan
05-11-2015, 08:17 PM
I watch everything on the Arkham Videos channel -- was this on the last interview thingie? I wasn't paying enough attention to that.

http://www.arkhamverse.com/news/2015/04/full-all-who-follow-you-batman-arkham-knight-trailer/

Plus there have been some interviews here and there that confirm that they're actually playable in those scenes, not just AI allies


I didn't think it was heavily focused, more of a side distraction that they dont get a long.

I dunno, inducting Claudia into the Brotherhood was kind of an important thing in that game

Kaschra
05-11-2015, 08:35 PM
Her design is so badass, I love it.

Hans684
05-11-2015, 08:35 PM
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--zX90lQZ6--/1247750830243440043.png

Love the first and third outfit, the first one gives a detective vibe and the third looks hight class. And a second character makes it interesting, regarding how this works it's most likely that their memories is synced since they are brother and sister and experienced most events together. Two people, two synced lives, two memories and two perspectives. Let's hope Syndicate has a damn good writer and actually progress the story while fleshing both characters. And her face looks familiar, anyone who know who it might be?

VestigialLlama4
05-11-2015, 08:38 PM
Love the first and third outfit, the first one gives a detective vibe and the third looks hight class. And a second character makes it interesting, regarding how this works it's most likely that their memories is synced since they are brother and sister and experienced most events together. Two people, two synced lives, two memories and two perspectives. Let's hope Syndicate has a damn good writer and actually progress the story while fleshing both characters. And her face looks familiar, anyone who know who it might be?

She's way too pretty to be poor in Victorian London.

Namikaze_17
05-11-2015, 08:39 PM
And her face looks familiar, anyone who know who it might be?

Good question.

At first glance, I thought she looked familiar too.


She's way too pretty to be poor in Victorian London.

Poor people are pretty/handsome too y'know.

But you do have a point I guess as the third outfit looks upper class.

ACfan443
05-11-2015, 08:43 PM
Alright, I'm just going to say this now; if she dies at the end, whoever is writing this story needs to get slapped. Not just because it's a tired trope, but because Ubisoft REALLY needs to get their sh*t together regarding the role of female characters. They've dropped the ball oh so very much lately.

Surely she'll be immortalised in the game given the amount of man hours and cash ploughed into crafting those oh so tricky bespoke female animations, I think Ubi is smarter than to repeat Unity's mistake and give her the shaft for the sake of a quick emotional high. They'll want us to experience every last one of her unique animations beyond just the main campaign (assuming they've given her a new movement set, which after Amancio's slip up is probable).

Arno's VA said it cost something like 50k to create a seemingly insignificant animation, so Jacob's sister certainly won't be coming cheap is she's to move like an actual woman and independent to her brother.

Hans684
05-11-2015, 08:46 PM
Good question.

At first glance, I thought she looked familiar too.

Cersei from GOT? Voice actor of Nathan Drake's GF?

I'll try to dig a little.

Elena Fisher(Uncharted) is voiced by Emily Rose
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/uncharted/images/6/60/Emily_Rose.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20091002185300
Looks familiar.

Lena Headey that play Cersei Lannister could be possible as well.

Anyone you can think of?

dimbismp
05-11-2015, 08:51 PM
Some thoughts:
-No HB in the pics,as far as i can see.But the article says that she is an assassin.We'll see
-Also,don't assume that she can parkour,fight yet.This is Ubi people
-No MP mode at all!!!F*ck yeah!!!More focus(and more resources) for the SP!
-The whole thing may turn out to be something epic.But it is Ubi,i mean they managed to mess up Assassin-Templar lovers
-75/25sounds good,especially if Evie plays throughout the game.But i hope that the 25% is at least 5-6 missions
-A great idea would be that each of them has different skills and different side missions
-Finally,IF ANY OF THEM DIES,I SWEAR TO GOD THAT I WILL NEVER TOUCH AN AC AGAIN

Altair1789
05-11-2015, 08:56 PM
Good question.

At first glance, I thought she looked familiar too..

Lucy maybe?

Ureh
05-11-2015, 09:00 PM
It's gonna be pretty hard for Jacob to look cooler than Evie. I don't think he stands a chance though, Evie'll be my go-to persona in co-op.

GunnerGalactico
05-11-2015, 09:02 PM
It's gonna be pretty hard for Jacob to look cooler than Evie. I don't think he stands a chance though, Evie'll be my go-to persona in co-op.

^ I see myself going that route. :p

dimbismp
05-11-2015, 09:02 PM
?

Edit:Obviously "nome"="none"

Sushiglutton
05-11-2015, 09:03 PM
This is a GREAT idea imo. I loved the character switching mechanic in GTA V. One important aspect to OW game is to give the experience a variety of flavours. You can do this by having a day/night cycle, weather effects, rural/city areas and so on. This kind of variety results in something much greater than the sum of its parts. It has something to do with the transition between these states.


I think she looks a bit like Famke Janssen!

Sushiglutton
05-11-2015, 09:04 PM
I think they'll make it!

Hans684
05-11-2015, 09:05 PM
I think she looks a bit like Famke Janssen!

The most identical suggestion so far.

wvstolzing
05-11-2015, 09:06 PM
No, they're both immortal.

Namikaze_17
05-11-2015, 09:07 PM
Lucy maybe?

No, no. Lucy has those big unattractive lips. :rolleyes:



I think she looks a bit like Famke Janssen!


Ha, this guy.

Ureh
05-11-2015, 09:11 PM
^ I see myself going that route. :p

Yea yea that's what I'm talking about. *high five*


This is a GREAT idea imo. I loved the character switching mechanic in GTA V. One important aspect to OW game is to give the experience a variety of flavours. You can do this by having a day/night cycle, weather effects, rural/city areas and so on. This kind of variety results in something much greater than the sum of its parts. It has something to do with the transition between these states.


I think she looks a bit like Famke Janssen!

That too. I was actually thinking about the catwoman/batman switchy system in arkham city, sometimes you need one of them to unlock a path for another. *shrugs*

RA503
05-11-2015, 09:17 PM
guys

Evie...is it possible that she might have relation to Eve?

Dead Kings have a scene that emplies that Eve can reincarnate like Aita and exist one in french revolution time, a abvious foreshadow for next game (notice that every DLC have foreshadow like Edward been mentioned in TOKW as a example).

Imagine how cool if she start to have memories of Eve(like the sages have)and we have playable flashback sections in the first civ era...

Namikaze_17
05-11-2015, 09:17 PM
Hopefully neither. That was my biggest gripe with Unity; that forced and unnecessary death for Elise.

This time the characters aren't in a relationship so they can develop individually with some brother/sister moments of course.

I just feel like there's more ways to make the story feel impactful without the reliance of a character's death.

wvstolzing
05-11-2015, 09:20 PM
Dead Kings have a scene that emplyes that Eve can reincarnate like Aita and exist one in french revolution time, a abvious foreshadow for next game (notice that every DLC have foreshadow like Edward been mentioned in TOKW as a example).

Whoa, that's a pretty huge leap to a conclusion. The mention of some 'Eve' in Dead Kings was nothing more than a fleeting name-drop; nothing about Sage-like reincarnates or such.

Namikaze_17
05-11-2015, 09:23 PM
Inb4 Evie is the next sage :rolleyes:

VestigialLlama4
05-11-2015, 09:25 PM
Inb4 Evie is the next sage :rolleyes:

Darby McDevitt said that women aren't Sages, possibly because its hard enough to animate mismatched eyes on males (hence the screwup with Jacques de Molay in the UNITY prologue).

GunnerGalactico
05-11-2015, 09:26 PM
I doubt that they will do that. It's becoming a bit clichéd to kill off supporting characters just to make the story dramatic. So yeah, I think they'll both live.

Namikaze_17
05-11-2015, 09:27 PM
Darby McDevitt said that women aren't Sages, possibly because its hard enough to animate mismatched eyes on males (hence the screwup with Jacques de Molay in the UNITY prologue).

Well...yeah. I knew that.

Thanks for telling me anyway.

Hans684
05-11-2015, 09:27 PM
Both should live but if someone has to die they can be more original this time by letting it be Jacob.

dxsxhxcx
05-11-2015, 09:34 PM
Jacob will die

Xstantin
05-11-2015, 09:35 PM
I guess it's exciting

Namikaze_17
05-11-2015, 09:36 PM
I wonder who that Assassin was that chased and killed Bulmer? Doesn't sound someone who's heavily involved in the criminal underworld. :rolleyes:

I'm actually interested in how Jacob comes to know the Assassins? Maybe he does both jobs at the same time?

Xstantin
05-11-2015, 09:38 PM
Someone must die to make it all dramatic and get at least one of them into heavy drinking sequence

VestigialLlama4
05-11-2015, 09:41 PM
In the course of time, all people will die. Me, my fellow posters on these forums, our families and friends, all the developers at Ubisoft and their families and friends, wil all die. That is certain.

Altair1789
05-11-2015, 09:42 PM
I wonder who that Assassin was that chased and killed Bulmer? Doesn't sound someone who's heavily involved in the criminal underworld. :rolleyes:

I'm actually interested in how Jacob comes to know the Assassins? Maybe he does both jobs at the same time?

Or they could give us a good story and make the game start during a contract

Kaschra
05-11-2015, 09:43 PM
Both should live but if someone has to die they can be more original this time by letting it be Jacob.

Agreed with this. If they really have to kill someone, please let it be Jacob.
They won't make any friends if they kill off another female character yet again.

Xstantin
05-11-2015, 09:43 PM
Or they could give us a good story and make the game start during a contract

That'll be awesome imo

Namikaze_17
05-11-2015, 09:44 PM
Or they could give us a good story and make the game start during a contract

That too.

SixKeys
05-11-2015, 09:46 PM
Or they could give us a good story and make the game start during a contract

That'd be interesting. Only problem is, the first missions need to be tutorials and if Jacob is already an experienced assassin, it makes no sense for him to fumble around like a n00b.

RA503
05-11-2015, 09:47 PM
Whoa, that's a pretty huge leap to a conclusion. The mention of some 'Eve' in Dead Kings was nothing more than a fleeting name-drop; nothing about Sage-like reincarnates or such.

Don't exist any famous historical woman named ''Eve'' during french revolution,this is obvious something put to catch the atention of the fans who knows about the lore,if is only a name drop they will can use any other random name,,Ana,cristina etc plus Yohalem refuse to comment about this and saying that will be important to the future.

VestigialLlama4
05-11-2015, 09:48 PM
That'd be interesting. Only problem is, the first missions need to be tutorials and if Jacob is already an experienced assassin, it makes no sense for him to fumble around like a n00b.

Well one good way is with the Dual Protagonists is you can have the sister be the apprentice and do the tutorial missions being trained by her brother and then you play as the professional Assassin. You can even make the tutorials totally optional.

Namikaze_17
05-11-2015, 09:49 PM
@Sixkeys

^ Off-topic, but I'm glad you changed your Avatar. I couldn't take what you said seriously with it. :p

Hans684
05-11-2015, 09:50 PM
Agreed with this. If they really have to kill someone, please let it be Jacob.
They won't make any friends if they kill off another female character yet again.

Predictable and in the process boring, we knew Elisé was going to die the moment we say her in the trailer.

Namikaze_17
05-11-2015, 09:52 PM
predictable and in the process boring, we knew elisé was going to die the moment we say her in the trailer.

preach my brother!

D.I.D.
05-11-2015, 09:52 PM
I've voted for the death of this mysterious gnome.

In all seriousness, I'm expecting a DLC expansion that continues the story and flips the prominence of the characters (75% Evie, 25% Jacob).

RA503
05-11-2015, 09:58 PM
Evie will die, female character only exist to die and give motivation for the sausages save the day.:rolleyes:

wvstolzing
05-11-2015, 09:59 PM
That'd be interesting. Only problem is, the first missions need to be tutorials and if Jacob is already an experienced assassin, it makes no sense for him to fumble around like a n00b.

That's conflating the player's skills with the character's -- I don't see why they can't design appropriate challenges *as well as guides* to 'train' newbie players in the middle of an experienced character's mission.

The real difficulty with that might be balancing the rest of the item/skill progression through the game. The arbitrary loss of skill & equipment is too tired a trope at this point, and it was used in AC1 anyhow.

But seriously -- let this character start out as a master, just like Altair. Since AC1, we've started with noobs; to the point of 'living through' their childhood memories. Do we really need yet another induction ceremony/revelation/whatever? Besides, the characters -- supposedly in their noob state -- already have all the 'parkour' and combat abilities of masters; which dilutes the supposed effect of their going through some sort of training and transformation. (It made some sense for Raton, a gifted hunter; and Edward, a pirate; but the rest?)

SixKeys
05-11-2015, 10:00 PM
Well one good way is with the Dual Protagonists is you can have the sister be the apprentice and do the tutorial missions being trained by her brother and then you play as the professional Assassin. You can even make the tutorials totally optional.

In AC, tutorials have always been integrated into the story. My idea was to have something like Jacob being in the middle of an intense mission, like a fire or an explosion, and he becomes disoriented due to the smoke or being knocked out or whatever. Then a companion shows up - maybe his sister or another assassin - urging him on, like "What's the matter with you? Did you hit your head? Come on, follow my lead!". I like your suggestion too, though.

m4r-k7
05-11-2015, 10:05 PM
A cool begginning mission / tutorial would be perhaps Evie is on the ground (perhaps blending, stalking the target, assassinating some enemies) showing you those systems and then it suddenly switches seamlessly (Amancio would be proud) to Jacob who is on the building above her and its a parkour tutorial chasing the main target and then assassinating them.

SixKeys
05-11-2015, 10:06 PM
Inb4 the actual game missions aren't half as cool as anyone's suggestions here. :(

VestigialLlama4
05-11-2015, 10:12 PM
In AC, tutorials have always been integrated into the story. My idea was to have something like Jacob being in the middle of an intense mission, like a fire or an explosion, and he becomes disoriented due to the smoke or being knocked out or whatever. Then a companion shows up - maybe his sister or another assassin - urging him on, like "What's the matter with you? Did you hit your head? Come on, follow my lead!". I like your suggestion too, though.

Well, concussive openings (with whistling sound of gunfire is kind of how Black Flag opened, with Edward in the middle of ship combat. And also UNITY with the raid on the De Molay in the Castle. Revelations also dropped you in Ezio's shoes in the middle of combat. My suggestion has the dual protagonist switcheroo and they did that twice with AC3 and Unity.

One thing I hope they avoid, no Childhood flashbacks. Its generally a cheap way to make you like the character, oh look how adorable he was as a kid. It's also unnecessary.Personally I don't know why tutorial missions are such a bother, ever since Half Life introduced those scripted openings its become de riguer, but I don't think its especially interesting.

king-hailz
05-11-2015, 10:14 PM
Jacob and Evie
Joel and Ellie!

Lol!

rprkjj
05-11-2015, 10:15 PM
The 75/25 split is odd; dual protagonists would lend itself better to 50/50, no? Might have something to do with the possibility her inclusion (at least as a player character) is some knee-jerk reaction. Which is a shame, but as long as multi protagonists adds to the game (and I think it will) then it's for the better. Her character designs look good, a little less assassin-y than I'd like but that's probably there to contrast with Jacob who'll probably be decked out in the full attire. Oh, and she looks like Kiera Knightley from Pirates of the Caribbean.

wvstolzing
05-11-2015, 10:17 PM
Jacob and Evie
Joel and Ellie!

Lol!

And you may just have read into the mind of a market analyst genius MBA who works at ubisoft....

king-hailz
05-11-2015, 10:17 PM
Well we now know that Evie will be Jacobs sister and will be playable in the game... also we know that Darby said we will have more modern day similar to ACB's villa! So maybe Evie is a sage which we play as in the modern day and in the past in a section of Victorian London in the modern day!

Kaschra
05-11-2015, 10:18 PM
Predictable and in the process boring, we knew Elisé was going to die the moment we say her in the trailer.

Exactly. It was so obvious from the very beginning :/

rprkjj
05-11-2015, 10:19 PM
Well we now know that Evie will be Jacobs sister and will be playable in the game... also we know that Darby said we will have more modern day similar to ACB's villa! So maybe Evie is a sage which we play as in the modern day and in the past in a section of Victorian London in the modern day!

When/where did Darby make those comments? Also, sages are reincarnations of Aita, a male. She might have ties to Eve though.

m4r-k7
05-11-2015, 10:26 PM
So maybe Evie is a sage which we play as in the modern day and in the past in a section of Victorian London in the modern day!

this just gave me a brain freeze reading that lol

THE_JOKE_KING33
05-11-2015, 10:35 PM
Really hoping for none. I hate it when main characters die in an attempt to give off some form of "sad moment" in any form of media. I've not yet seen/read a "main character dies, engage sad mode" moment that didn't make me sigh heavily.

Goxxi
05-11-2015, 10:42 PM
When/where did Darby make those comments? Also, sages are reincarnations of Aita, a male. She might have ties to Eve though.

well her name allude to that .

Namikaze_17
05-11-2015, 10:49 PM
Originality points just went down... :rolleyes:

Nah, not really...hopefully.

GoldenBoy9999
05-11-2015, 10:53 PM
Looks really cool. I like the approach to be a little more incognito, but I hope something is added to distinguish her from a random NPC. I don't have a problem with the hood being absent.

I'm excited to see how they pull this off, as it seems to be a step up from AC3 where you could only play Haytham at the beginning of the game.


Dat top hat doe...


Well, to be precise, the one on the left is referred to as a pork pie hat, and the middle one is a derby. Both look pretty fashionable on her. I'd say shorter hats like these would be more suited for parkour, but a) your hood never comes off and b) I've never worn a top hat.

Namikaze_17
05-11-2015, 10:56 PM
Well, to be precise, the one on the left is referred to as a pork pie hat, and the middle one is a derby. Both look pretty fashionable on her. I'd say shorter hats like these would be more suited for parkour, but a) your hood never comes off and b) I've never worn a top hat.

Okay, Expert. :rolleyes:

bitebug2003
05-11-2015, 11:05 PM
Syndicate will not have any multiplayer modes

This pleases me.

GoldenBoy9999
05-11-2015, 11:14 PM
^ Oh, that was the other thing. I liked the traditional pre Unity multiplayer, but not co-op as much so I'm glad we're finally getting another full solo game (besides Rogue). Hopefully they'll be able to do some really cool things with the extra focus.


Okay, Expert. :rolleyes:

I like my time periods. :cool:

GoldenBoy9999
05-11-2015, 11:20 PM
After Elise, I don't think so.


Really hoping for none. I hate it when main characters die in an attempt to give off some form of "sad moment" in any form of media. I've not yet seen/read a "main character dies, engage sad mode" moment that didn't make me sigh heavily.

John Marston in RDR? I thought that was handled great, and so do lots of other people.

SixKeys
05-11-2015, 11:20 PM
Wait, is this brother-sister thing the "innovative asynchronous gameplay" or whatever that was listed on the LinkedIn profile of the game's director? I thought it referred to co-op, but if there's no multiplayer...

wvstolzing
05-11-2015, 11:21 PM
Wait, is this brother-sister thing the "innovative asynchronous gameplay" or whatever that was listed on the LinkedIn profile of the game's director? I thought it referred to co-op, but if there's no multiplayer...

ah yes... you may be on to something here.

GoldenBoy9999
05-11-2015, 11:26 PM
this just gave me a brain freeze reading that lol

Same. My eyes just kind of drifted to the next post.

Shahkulu101
05-11-2015, 11:26 PM
This sounds really cool, but I'm kind of disappointed that she's only playable for 25% of the game - makes me think the idea wasn't there from the start...

Namikaze_17
05-11-2015, 11:28 PM
It's what they do with it that matters...

Shahkulu101
05-11-2015, 11:32 PM
Please, PLEASE let Evie live it would be so cliche if she dies and Jacob looks up with puppy eyes, all the while I'll be rolling my eyes and turning the PS4 off...

If Jacob died it would be predictable but it's never been done before (the main character dying - sadly he takes precedence over his female counter-part) so it wouldn't be so bad.

crusader_prophet
05-11-2015, 11:33 PM
I hate all these leaks...takes the charm away...i hope these rodents get caught and lose their jobs

GoldenBoy9999
05-11-2015, 11:38 PM
The 25/75 doesn't bother me at all. Connor was what most people wanted in AC3, so we got him for 75% of the time. Same with The Witcher 3 I believe; Geralt is the favorite, but they're including Triss as a second playable character as well while not making it a 50/50 split. To me this will allow them to put more focus on Jacob, and give the game a distinct face.

When I think about games with equal focus on both characters, Banjo Kazooie and The Last of Us come to mind, although they aren't 50/50 splits in any sense. I could understand an argument that this is a different scenario though, as they are brother/sister instead of father/ child.

THE_JOKE_KING33
05-11-2015, 11:48 PM
John Marston in RDR? I thought that was handled great, and so do lots of other people.

I imagine I would've been sad if I wasn't immediately annoyed that one of the very few likable characters from that game just died.

I'd say, as far as character death goes, I only have two feelings towards it:

1. If I liked the character who died then I get annoyed (especially so if "likable" characters are in short supply and may even stop caring about the story all together if they were the only likable one).

2. If I didn't like the character who died then I don't care.

I-Like-Pie45
05-12-2015, 12:01 AM
Well, I don't know about me, but I'm sure Brian would love it if they were in an incestuous relationship together.

Personally if so I think it could be used to explore some daring, artistic storytelling regarding family dynamics that Unity failed with and instead of just shoving down some cliched acceptable diversity prevalent in today's mainstream media such as homosexual relationships like Leonardo and Ezio or mixed-race relationships like Edward and Adewale Ubisoft can prove they respect the true diversity of their fanbase.

Ureh
05-12-2015, 12:23 AM
Maybe one of them will fake their own death to trick the Templars into thinking that they're winning. Then boom, surprise, they sweep them off their feet and win the day!

wvstolzing
05-12-2015, 12:24 AM
Maybe one of them will fake their own death to trick the Templars into thinking that they're winning. Then boom, surprise, they sweep them off their feet and win the day!

A trick to flank the guy with the magic sword, and get his glowy orange, maybe. That could work.

LoyalACFan
05-12-2015, 01:05 AM
I hate all these leaks...takes the charm away...i hope these rodents get caught and lose their jobs

Shhhh... Ubi, let the leaks commence...

Radman500
05-12-2015, 01:17 AM
do you think Jacob and Evie will have different skills/abilities kind of like Michael, Franklin and Trevor in GTA V?

LoyalACFan
05-12-2015, 01:21 AM
do you think Jacob and Evie will have different skills/abilities kind of like Michael, Franklin and Trevor in GTA V?

Probably some passive perks or their own separate skill trees, but I doubt they'll have like a special move meter like GTA

Radman500
05-12-2015, 01:43 AM
Evie looks young...so Jacob is probably 30s?

Sorrosyss
05-12-2015, 01:44 AM
Well, I hope this is true. If so, my excitement for Syndicate has raised. I did feel that Unity could have benefited from playing as Elise at points, and this is a happy alternative to having full gender choice for the protagonist I suppose. I have openly argued the case for female leads, so having one of each gender should certainly help for those on either side of the argument. A cunning move Ubi.

Also, Evie.... Come on Eve subplot. ;)

LoyalACFan
05-12-2015, 02:12 AM
Evie looks young...so Jacob is probably 30s?

Yeah, probably, but given that it's only concept art I wouldn't base the age too much on it. She looks like she's around 30 though. Do we know if she's older or younger than Jacob?

prince162010
05-12-2015, 02:14 AM
Amazing can't wait

Radman500
05-12-2015, 02:18 AM
yeah the Evie thing just has to be about Eve

Derp43
05-12-2015, 02:59 AM
Could this mean a return of the persona system?

LieutenantRex
05-12-2015, 03:00 AM
I'm not satisfied. I refuse to be satisfied until we get a full, main game with a female character as the ONLY playable protagonist.

LoyalACFan
05-12-2015, 03:26 AM
Could this mean a return of the persona system?

I really hope not. It was a decent idea on paper, but it just wound up being cheesy and unnecessary. Plus I found it vaguely sexist that in the first game starring a female Assassin, one of the main mechanics was playing dress-up. Maybe that's just me being a *****, I dunno.

rprkjj
05-12-2015, 03:45 AM
I'm not satisfied. I refuse to be satisfied until we get a full, main game with a female character as the ONLY playable protagonist.

If this dual protag thing doesn't go away after this game (and I think it will), then you might be out of luck there.

kosmoscreed
05-12-2015, 04:39 AM
One step closer to have a main game with a girl as the lead, I like it.

generallsj
05-12-2015, 04:49 AM
It seems they can not even reach Arkham City Catwoman collaboration.

LoyalACFan
05-12-2015, 04:55 AM
It seems they can not even reach Arkham City Catwoman collaboration.

... wut. Catwoman was only playable for like 20 minutes in the story.

I-Like-Pie45
05-12-2015, 05:09 AM
... wut. Catwoman was only playable for like 20 minutes in the story.

And locked behind an online pass code-system-thing too!

Moultonborough
05-12-2015, 05:52 AM
It could move into a female lead I suppose but with their previous stance I don't see it. Hopefully, it's been planned like this from the start but I suspect it is a recent addition because of the backlash last year. Only time will tell though.

I-Like-Pie45
05-12-2015, 05:55 AM
what if this 25% is the last 25% of the game

like maybe jacob gets killed by Jack the Ripper who is really a time-traveling Prince Charles and its up to Evie and her new teammates, the time-traveling zombie ninja robot ghosts of Princess Diana, Freddie Mercury, and Graham Chapman to stop Charles and his quartet of the greatest Templar Grandmaster supervillains drawn from throughout British history: Henry VIII, Maggie Thatcher, Winston Churchill, and John Lennon.

pirate1802
05-12-2015, 06:39 AM
Now this, THIS raises my hype level. Evie looks badass and I agree with those who said that Jacob will now have a really hard time looking as good as his sister. Only with a very manly moustache do I see him with any chance. The 75-25 thing is a bit disappointing though. I'd have preferred a complete seamlessness! *cue amancio dancing gif*


If this dual protag thing doesn't go away after this game (and I think it will), then you might be out of luck there.

Don't feed the troll bro...

VestigialLlama4
05-12-2015, 06:59 AM
If this dual protag thing doesn't go away after this game (and I think it will), then you might be out of luck there.

Eventually Ubisoft are going to have to introduce multiple protagonists like GTA-V, its the only way forward to keep it fresh, that or multiple timelines in one game.

generallsj
05-12-2015, 07:15 AM
... wut. Catwoman was only playable for like 20 minutes in the story.
Length was not a matter and Catwoman has completely different aspect compared to Batman through entire gameplay and the map includes almost 2 demension as gameplay for Batman and for Catwoman. Liberation Avelin was just a copycat of Haytham and Connor though it was a game only for her further they said woman character requires too much work to product so I can not expect them to reach to such a good level.

LoyalACFan
05-12-2015, 08:23 AM
Length was not a matter and Catwoman has completely different aspect compared to Batman through entire gameplay and the map includes almost 2 demension as gameplay for Batman and for Catwoman. Liberation Avelin was just a copycat of Haytham and Connor though it was a game only for her further they said woman character requires too much work to product so I can not expect them to reach to such a good level.

Yeah, Batman and Catwoman had different powers and abilities... but it was a superhero game. There's NO way they should make such a divide between Evie and Jacob, that would just be silly. They should have roughly the same abilities with maybe a few passive or customizable tweaks between them.

BananaBlighter
05-12-2015, 10:13 AM
If one of them dies, don't we only have one person to play as during free roam after the end of the story?

ze_topazio
05-12-2015, 12:15 PM
what if this 25% is the last 25% of the game

like maybe jacob gets killed by Jack the Ripper who is really a time-traveling Prince Charles and its up to Evie and her new teammates, the time-traveling zombie ninja robot ghosts of Princess Diana, Freddie Mercury, and Graham Chapman to stop Charles and his quartet of the greatest Templar Grandmaster supervillains drawn from throughout British history: Henry VIII, Maggie Thatcher, Winston Churchill, and John Lennon.

Best theory so far.

Sorrosyss
05-12-2015, 01:08 PM
Yeah, I hope neither dies. At this point, it's so over used in the franchise I'll almost be expecting it - zero impact. :p

Defalt221
05-12-2015, 01:11 PM
so how is this going to work in terms of animus/helix storyline?

Maybe two DNA donors. But most probably Animus 4.0 that can handle two DNA input. But cloning GTA V isn't that good a news.

phoenix-force411
05-12-2015, 01:34 PM
Oh god, don't tell me they're doin' this 'cause of fan service and feminists. Although it is interesting, I don't think it's gonna be that good but we'll have to see.

D.I.D.
05-12-2015, 01:59 PM
Oh god, don't tell me they're doin' this 'cause of fan service and feminists. Although it is interesting, I don't think it's gonna be that good but we'll have to see.

God forbid your multi-million dollar entertainment products adapt to please a wide audience.

You're so edgy you even drop your Gs when you're typin'.

SpiritOfNevaeh
05-12-2015, 02:02 PM
I really hope none die.

It would be great to play them both after the story is finished.

pacmanate
05-12-2015, 02:08 PM
This 75/25 thing is a making me worried.

What if I don't like Evies personality? Or Jacob's for that matter. It is way to heavily scewed towards Jacob.

VoXngola
05-12-2015, 02:16 PM
God forbid your multi-million dollar entertainment products adapt to please a wide audience.

You're so edgy you even drop your Gs when you're typin'.

You really don't get it, do you? It's pandering. These idiots who made a fuss about having no female character in Unity are not a wide audience. If Ubisoft were to shoehorn in a female character because of the cries of some idiots, not only will it hurt the story (because a female character in this case wasn't intended) but it will also show that you have to stick to your vision in order to succeed.

These people will never stop complaining, stop listening to people that pretend to be progressive on twitter.

D.I.D.
05-12-2015, 02:30 PM
You really don't get it, do you? It's pandering. These idiots who made a fuss about having no female character in Unity are not a wide audience. If Ubisoft were to shoehorn in a female character because of the cries of some idiots, not only will it hurt the story (because a female character in this case wasn't intended) but it will also show that you have to stick to your vision in order to succeed.

These people will never stop complaining, stop listening to people that pretend to be progressive on twitter.

You have no idea if that's true or not.

I've been calling for female assassins for some time. I don't think it's fair to call me an idiot for it. I was told my viewpoint is not supported by history, but since I know quite a bit about history I used to write long posts in response highlighting tons of prodigiously violent and athletic women. Oddly, their ignorance was never an issue - they just go ahead and run their mouths with maximum authority, but nothing to back it up.

This is a massive business which needs constant growth. It is not only in their commercial interests to improve their inclusivity, but history demands it too.

It will also help the games artistically. If a designer is reaching for the same type of character, he/she is less likely to put significant thought into who that person is: how they think, what they like, what they do, how they do it. I'd argue that including more characters of varied power, wealth, race, gender, sexuality and so on is a good thing on that basis, and it can't make games stories any worse than they already are. 99% are absolute junk. Why anyone would want to defend the sorry state of games is beyond me. They have so much potential to be better, and asking for more social inclusion is intimately bound up in wanting better games. I want to get there faster. It's unbelievable how slowly the narrative side of the genre has progressed in four decades.

phoenix-force411
05-12-2015, 02:30 PM
God forbid your multi-million dollar entertainment products adapt to please a wide audience.

You're so edgy you even drop your Gs when you're typin'.

I don't care if they want to make a female assassin playable in ACS, it's the reason behind it that matters. If they did this to please the fans and to quiet down the feminists, it may not do as well as it could. If they wanted to do this since development, then that is great and I have no problem with it.

At least the informality is done correctly instead of not bothering to insert the apostrophes.

VoXngola
05-12-2015, 02:37 PM
You have no idea if that's true or not.

I've been calling for female assassins for some time. I don't think it's fair to call me an idiot for it. I was told my viewpoint is not supported by history, but since I know quite a bit about history I used to write long posts in response highlighting tons of prodigiously violent and athletic women. Oddly, their ignorance was never an issue - they just go ahead and run their mouths with maximum authority, but nothing to back it up.

This is a massive business which needs constant growth. It is not only in their commercial interests to improve their inclusivity, but history demands it too.

It will also help the games artistically. If a designer is reaching for the same type of character, he/she is less likely to put significant thought into who that person is: how they think, what they like, what they do, how they do it. I'd argue that including more characters of varied power, wealth, race, gender, sexuality and so on is a good thing on that basis, and it can't make games stories any worse than they already are. 99% are absolute junk. Why anyone would want to defend the sorry state of games is beyond me. They have so much potential to be better, and asking for more social inclusion is intimately bound up in wanting better games. I want to get there faster. It's unbelievable how slowly the narrative side of the genre has progressed in four decades.

Oh no no, you got me wrong. I never intended to call you an idiot or to offend you! I'm also not saying that we shouldn't get a female lead in the first place. I'm all for it, actually I would have preferred to have a female lead in Syndicate.

What I was talking about where all these people blew the female thing in Unity out of proportion, despite Ubi telling them that it's because of Arno. My point is that they should decide on a female lead BEFORE they start working on the game. I'm just afraid that they added Evie to please the ignorant hashtag crowd. Everything else I agree with your post.

Once again, sorry if I offended you.

Shahkulu101
05-12-2015, 02:43 PM
I think it could potentially be a problem if this was a knee jerk reaction that happened mid-development and as a result it's not as good as it can be. Not to mention they'd be doing it for the wrong reasons, corporate interest due to backlash against the company. Not saying they shouldn't listen to criticism and include female protagonists but if they weren't planning to do so with Victory, and this is an if, then that's a flawed way to include something important.

Hopefully it was in the plans from the start. I'd also like to mention that if this was intended in the beginning then it's a bit of a cop out to have both genders, as if they're too scared to go all the way. I believe this sentiment was shared by some people when others suggested the "why not have both?" scenario.

phoenix-force411
05-12-2015, 02:48 PM
I think it could potentially be a problem if this was a knee jerk reaction that happened mid-development and as a result it's not as good as it can be. Not to mention they'd be doing it for the wrong reasons, corporate interest due to backlash against the company. Not saying they shouldn't listen to criticism and include female protagonists but if they weren't planning to do so with Victory, and this is an if, then that's a flawed way to include something important.

Hopefully it was in the plans from the start. I'd also like to mention that if this was intended in the beginning then it's a bit of a cop out to have both genders, as if they're too scared to go all the way. I believe this sentiment was shared by some people when others suggested the "why not have both?" scenario.

Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. I don't want it to be a forced-on content that was added to the game when the original concept did not include it in the first place.

Matknapers18
05-12-2015, 02:59 PM
What I was talking about where all these people blew the female thing in Unity out of proportion, despite Ubi telling them that it's because of Arno.

I agree with your point of view, I think the whole inclusion of a female protagonist is possibly being done for the wrong reasons. But referring to the quote above, Ubisoft didn't say the the absence of females was because of Arno. And this is gonna go slightly off topic, but you are going to have to bear with me, because its been on my mind since the day is happened.

So a lot of gamers were annoyed with Ubisoft due to the fact that our assassin's couldn't be female in co-op. When the accusations of sexism and prejudice began pouring upon Ubisoft, I got kinda irritated. This is because, as most of you know due to the fact that you follow AC news, you couldn't play as females because you are playing as ARNO. This isn't your own assassin. You are playing as Arno, its not like Ubisoft are giving you the ability to literally create your own character. The co-op is linked with the singe player. You can't just change the gender of the protagonist, that is absurd.

But, why didn't Ubisoft respond to the sexism accusations with THIS? Essentially they can just say 'This isn't your own assassin'. Instead, they said that they couldn't animate female characters. Why? It literally boggles my mind. They have an honest, perfectly logical explanation for the lack of female assassin's and they didn't use it? Why didn't they tell the truth in that Arno isn't your own assassin instead of creating an excuse that is bound to generate a negative reputation for the company and brand? I am missing something? I'd love to hear a response for this.

Also, stream starts in 2 hours. My body is ready

VoXngola
05-12-2015, 03:12 PM
But, why didn't Ubisoft respond to the sexism accusations with THIS? Essentially they can just say 'This isn't your own assassin'. Instead, they said that they couldn't animate female characters. Why? It literally boggles my mind. They have an honest, perfectly logical explanation for the lack of female assassin's and they didn't use it? Why didn't they tell the truth in that Arno isn't your own assassin instead of creating an excuse that is bound to generate a negative reputation for the company and brand? I am missing something? I'd love to hear a response for this.


You know what's funny? They did exactly that. The problem here is, though, that these gamers stopped listening. It's because the "too much work" line came first. They put their hands on their ears and went "lalala I can't hear you" on Ubi.

cawatrooper9
05-12-2015, 03:25 PM
"Who will die?"
Well, unless one of them is probably over 150 years old, I think it's pretty safe to say that they both die. :p

Xstantin
05-12-2015, 03:34 PM
The co-op is linked with the singe player. You can't just change the gender of the protagonist, that is absurd.

I'm glad that Syndicate changes that by the looks of that leak. Everyone can get the hood they want (since no MP, right) and play as a person they find more interesting. Still, there'll be like twenty threads ":mad::mad::mad: why no multiplayer, Ubi be change" I'm sure

cawatrooper9
05-12-2015, 03:43 PM
I'm glad that Syndicate changes that by the looks of that leak. Everyone can get the hood they want (since no MP, right) and play as a person they find more interesting. Still, there'll be like twenty threads ":mad::mad::mad: why no multiplayer, Ubi be change" I'm sure

I'm afraid you're right. People love to complain.

Personally, I enjoyed the multiplayer. However, if omitting it allows the devs to make the most immersive and enjoyable single-player experience possible, then I think that's a noble and worthy sacrifice to make.

SixKeys
05-12-2015, 04:47 PM
It's been suggested that Haytham's sections in AC3 may have been a last-minute addition as well. There's no way to tell if that's true or not, but if it was, well, it certainly didn't hurt the game's sales or the character's popularity, now did it? If Haytham was added at the last minute, would people call it pandering to white males?

Shahkulu101
05-12-2015, 04:56 PM
You have a good point.

Talk about Haytham got me thinking. Wouldn't have this been an awesome surprise? Devs probably wanted it to remain under wraps but marketing was having none of it. We know they contested not announcing Haytham, and right now the series is starved of good publicity.

If it turns out it WAS meant to be a surprise, and only the leak spoiled it, I'll be livid.

Sushiglutton
05-12-2015, 04:58 PM
It's not just a female character, they have really nailed the design which makes me extra excited!

VestigialLlama4
05-12-2015, 05:05 PM
You have a good point.

Talk about Haytham got me thinking. Wouldn't have this been an awesome surprise? Devs probably wanted it to remain under wraps but marketing was having none of it. We know they contested not announcing Haytham, and right now the series is starved of good publicity.

If it turns out it WAS meant to be a surprise, and only the leak spoiled it, I'll be livid.

I am seriously doubting "leaks". It's way too often and too much. AC3 didn't have leaks (except I believe for three or four days before the launch). In Black Flag, nobody knew Black Bart was even in the game until release, let alone being the main bad guy.

In any case, if she's 25% then its not Haytham.

Haytham in AC3 is at best 5%, granted its three story sections, but Haytham has no access to tree-running, no access to naval, no unique side-missions, no crafting mechanic, so there's little freeroam activities for Haytham and the story are all playable introductions and movable cutscenes. 25% though suggest freeroam activity and side-missions.

ze_topazio
05-12-2015, 05:32 PM
I am seriously doubting "leaks". It's way too often and too much. AC3 didn't have leaks (except I believe for three or four days before the launch). In Black Flag, nobody knew Black Bart was even in the game until release, let alone being the main bad guy.

In any case, if she's 25% then its not Haytham.

Haytham in AC3 is at best 5%, granted its three story sections, but Haytham has no access to tree-running, no access to naval, no unique side-missions, no crafting mechanic, so there's little freeroam activities for Haytham and the story are all playable introductions and movable cutscenes. 25% though suggest freeroam activity and side-missions.

Actually a picture of his action figure was leaked months before, and they announced during the game reveal that his famous robbery of a Portuguese Armada was going to be featured, so we knew he was going to be in the game.

RzaRecta357
05-12-2015, 05:52 PM
Added late or not she's been in since Unity and Rainbow six were announced and people whined about women. She's going to be the tougher cooler cat compared to her brother and she looks awesome.

Works for me.

Im just worried Jacob will have Arnos animations for the most part. That sort of bugged me with Rogue and makes it feel cheaper in a way,

VestigialLlama4
05-12-2015, 05:53 PM
Actually a picture of his action figure was leaked months before, and they announced during the game reveal that his famous robbery of a Portuguese Armada was going to be featured, so we knew he was going to be in the game.

Well that passed me by. So it goes to show how effective their control was nonetheless.

Terrence_Lee
05-12-2015, 05:53 PM
After watching the video, I gotta say

Loose the high hat! Seriously! I believe many players, like myself, dun mind having the hood on all the time, I mean it is assassin's creed afterall.

But please, loose the high hat for cry out load, it just like the hood on/off issue in the past, only more troubled.

TexasCaesar
05-12-2015, 09:14 PM
Well, this is interesting, at least. So, do you think we'll be able to switch between the two at will, like GTA 5's three-protagonist system?

pacmanate
05-12-2015, 09:16 PM
Well, this is interesting, at least. So, do you think we'll be able to switch between the two at will, like GTA 5's three-protagonist system?

Yup, outside the main campaign you be whoever you want

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/05/12/five-things-to-know-about-assassins-creed-syndicate-game-informer.aspx

bitebug2003
05-12-2015, 09:18 PM
odd poll


but considering most females get short shrift in AC I voted Evie :(

hope she doesn't

wvstolzing
05-12-2015, 09:28 PM
Well that passed me by. So it goes to show how effective their control was nonetheless.

With Black Bart, Ashraf flat-out said he was in the game in an interview; though I think that was pretty close to release.

VestigialLlama4
05-12-2015, 09:49 PM
With Black Bart, Ashraf flat-out said he was in the game in an interview; though I think that was pretty close to release.

Well what I remember was that there were mentions of him being in the game, but for someone that prominent as essentially the main villain (even if I don't really think of him as a bad guy, he's just not human that's all) it was surprising he wasn't there that much. The promotions said the game was in Nassau Republic and that it would end in 1918 and Black Bart became a pirate after that. It was actually amazing the way they did it, you see how he becomes a villain and you play a role in making him that way. And that awesome speech, "dipped my hands in muddy waters" they didn't feature that in any of the trailers, even if its an awesome line for a trailer. The fact that its a real speech and would have given away the game shows how much they controlled information before.

wvstolzing
05-12-2015, 10:06 PM
Well what I remember was that there were mentions of him being in the game, but for someone that prominent as essentially the main villain (even if I don't really think of him as a bad guy, he's just not human that's all) it was surprising he wasn't there that much.

Sure; and Ashraf didn't say anything about the role he plays either.

Farlander1991
05-12-2015, 10:12 PM
AC4 was actually promoted to end in 1725. I remember Edward Low for the longest time was thought to be the main antagonist due to his death in 1724. The game actually ends 3 years earlier than everybody expected.

EmptyCrustacean
05-12-2015, 10:16 PM
It's been suggested that Haytham's sections in AC3 may have been a last-minute addition as well. There's no way to tell if that's true or not, but if it was, well, it certainly didn't hurt the game's sales or the character's popularity, now did it? If Haytham was added at the last minute, would people call it pandering to white males?

It was pandering to white male regardless.

VestigialLlama4
05-12-2015, 10:35 PM
Sure; and Ashraf didn't say anything about the role he plays either.

See, they can keep a secret well. So that's why I am sure that all these Victory leaks are self-done, by the marketing section of Ubisoft.

From the way the promotions of Syndicate have them apologize for UNITY, I have a feeling that this game is being pushed early, that it was intended to be for a later stage. That's why there's no Multiplayer or Co-Op. The promotion event with Pre-Alpha Footage and hasty look at mechanics reeks of desperation.

Nobody apologized over AC3 for instance. Darby McDevitt was like some people didn't get Connor because he was too subtle and the Homestead missions had his best parts. (Translation: "He wasn't white, we took a risk and now we're never going to do that again".)


AC4 was actually promoted to end in 1725. I remember Edward Low for the longest time was thought to be the main antagonist due to his death in 1724. The game actually ends 3 years earlier than everybody expected.

The funny thing is Edward Kenway is based on Edward Low. That line where he threatens Torres to cut off his lips and feed it to him is something Ned Low did. Ned Low also had a long suffering wife and a daughter he cared for. And by the way Edward Low disappeared, he didn't die. No one knows what happened to him, most likely he just retired like our Edward.


It was pandering to white male regardless.

Lest we forget. Haytham is the worst part of AC3, the main reason why the missions are damn linear, they shoehorned everything in the final section to the father-son conflict, and the prologue is godawful in terms of gameplay and story. It's only from Connor's perspective as a foil that Haytham becomes interesting as a character. You see this in ROGUE where with Shay, Haytham is just a blank, brutish dude. That was always his character.

Ignacio_796
05-12-2015, 11:13 PM
Evie Frye is supposed to be the ''second protagonist'', Ubi just confirmed that we'll be able to play as her, she'll have a particular set of skills, tools and skill tree.
That left me asking: Why she is not on the in-game images? Why she is at one side of the covert of the game instead of being in the center with his brother?
Why we didn't saw anything of her in the demo or the trailers?
I know that it's only passed half a day since the premiere, but im little bit worried that we'll only see Jacob been advertised, except in the case that Evie is just a more important secondary character that we can play as here an there (like Ciri in Witcher 3)
Is that right? Is Jacob the main and only protagonist? What do you think about it?

JamesFaith007
05-12-2015, 11:19 PM
Why?

Because AC marketing would be spread through next few months and second playable character is so big change that they will most probably give her one special chapter in later advertising.

It would be waste of "hype-ammo" show more details about her right now.

Ignacio_796
05-12-2015, 11:46 PM
Why?

Because AC marketing would be spread through next few months and second playable character is so big change that they will most probably give her one special chapter in later advertising.

It would be waste of "hype-ammo" show more details about her right now.

That makes sense. But that doesn't explain why is Jacob in the center of the covert and Evie is at one side or if we're gonna have two main protagonist or just one with the possibility of playing as Evie in some moments.

wvstolzing
05-13-2015, 12:07 AM
The cover art might still change too.

I-Like-Pie45
05-13-2015, 12:25 AM
Enough time to change it to Jacob and Evie sharing some smoochies ;)

Xstantin
05-13-2015, 12:39 AM
Enough time to change it to Jacob and Evie sharing some smoochies ;)

that'll be some serious audacity

Mr.Black24
05-13-2015, 02:16 AM
While I like both characters, I honestly wish that Jacob was the secondary character. Like Evie should have been the main protagonist. This was your big chance right here to break the white guy cycle! It would have been so much more cooler that it was a woman who brought down the Templar Order and being the Boss of the entire gangs of London, especially since historically speaking, those days society was sexist, and when the women were getting more rights and say in things. Would have made it much more impactfull to the whole "Fight against Oppression cause.

But baby steps I guess, for it seems that they are getting there, and that gives me hope. Hopefully the next one will have a full on woman protagonist.

TexasCaesar
05-13-2015, 02:32 AM
What white guy cycle? Everybody keeps forgetting that there's been about as many ethnic minorities as there have been whites as protagonists.

It doesn't matter. Nothing Ubisoft can do will get rid of the SJW crowd. A company as large as theirs is bound to draw negative attention.

EmbodyingSeven5
05-13-2015, 02:43 AM
the sad thing is that I do know idiots who wouldn't play a game because of a female protagonists. One time I was talking about how excited I was for rise of the tomb raider when someone on my bus said, "I don't like those games." when I inquired why he responded: Because you play as a girl, and that's weird.

I felt a slap coming on............

Goxxi
05-13-2015, 02:45 AM
While I like both characters, I honestly wish that Jacob was the secondary character. Like Evie should have been the main protagonist. This was your big chance right here to break the white guy cycle! It would have been so much more cooler that it was a woman who brought down the Templar Order and being the Boss of the entire gangs of London, especially since historically speaking, those days society was sexist, and when the women were getting more rights and say in things. Would have made it much more impactfull to the whole "Fight against Oppression cause.

But baby steps I guess, for it seems that they are getting there, and that gives me hope. Hopefully the next one will have a full on woman protagonist.

That would be too unrealistic , as we can see the Victorian London was dangerous place , too dangerous that one girl could solve the things , I mean how many women were a gang leaders back then or how many women are leaders of the gangs even now ?

It's very difficult to imagine that , especially couse in that time women had much more passive role in society then today and their only roles in society were to cook , clean the house and to take care of the children.

It was practically impossible that one girl could cope for a position of gang leader , but something like Evie's role where she stands next to his brother and where she's some some sort of back up , that already seems more realistic and could work.

EmbodyingSeven5
05-13-2015, 02:48 AM
What white guy cycle? Everybody keeps forgetting that there's been about as many ethnic minorities as there have been whites as protagonists.

It doesn't matter. Nothing Ubisoft can do will get rid of the SJW crowd. A company as large as theirs is bound to draw negative attention.

white:
Altiar
Ezio
Edward
Haytham( if you count him)
Arno
shay
Jacob( is that his name?)

Minority
Adewale( If you count him)
Aveline
Connor

How do you count sir?

EmbodyingSeven5
05-13-2015, 02:51 AM
That would be too unrealistic , as we can see the Victorian London was dangerous place , too dangerous that one girl could solve the things , I mean how many women were a gang leaders back then or how many women are leaders of the gangs even now ?

It's very difficult to imagine that , especially couse in that time women had much more passive role in society then today and their only roles in society were to cook , clean the house and to take care of the children.

It was practically impossible that one girl could cope for a position of gang leader , but something like Evie's role where she stands next to his brother and where she's some some sort of back up , that already seems more realistic and could work.
well the games fiction so screw realism. Not saying we should have flying Pegasuses or anything but it dosent need to too realistic.
Besides she has first civ DNA

EmbodyingSeven5
05-13-2015, 02:53 AM
While I like both characters, I honestly wish that Jacob was the secondary character. Like Evie should have been the main protagonist. This was your big chance right here to break the white guy cycle! It would have been so much more cooler that it was a woman who brought down the Templar Order and being the Boss of the entire gangs of London, especially since historically speaking, those days society was sexist, and when the women were getting more rights and say in things. Would have made it much more impactfull to the whole "Fight against Oppression cause.

But baby steps I guess, for it seems that they are getting there, and that gives me hope. Hopefully the next one will have a full on woman protagonist.
Maybe one day in the future people wont always be compare the skins and gender counts of protagonists. one day there will just be Protagonists and whether we like them or not. there just will be a natural amount of varied protagonists.

TexasCaesar
05-13-2015, 02:54 AM
I guess this depends on if you count Semitic peoples as white or not, but by most definitions of white, Altair would not qualify. He's an Arab.

So, what that gives you is:
Ezio
Edward
Haytham
Arno
Shay
Jacob
Evie

Altair
Adewale
Aveline
Connor

Since I'm in a sporting mood, I'll say that Haytham and Connor cancel each other out, but Jacob and Evie count as "one person." So, that would make it like:

Ezio
Edward
Arno
Shay
Jacob and Evie

Adewale
Altair
Connor

5 to 3 ain't bad, especially not for games, where most characters are grizzled white males. Now, when it comes to male vs female characters, it's much more lopsided.

Goxxi
05-13-2015, 02:59 AM
Altair was not white , he was an Arab and even Ezio , he was more Latin , Meditteranean type , maybe they were Caucasian which a bit more wide term then "white" , by term white are usually considered the people of Anglo Saxon heritage. (for example Meditteranean people and Arabs have higher percent of African DNA then Anglo Saxons)

And also it's logical that protagonist is white, autenthic British , couse in that time London was not so cosmopolitan city like today and number of people of different ethnicities was relatively small.

EmbodyingSeven5
05-13-2015, 03:12 AM
Altair was not white , he was an Arab and even Ezio , he was more Latin , Meditteranean type , maybe they were Caucasian which a bit more wide term then "white" , by term white are usually considered the people of Anglo Saxon heritage. (for example Meditteranean people and Arabs have higher percent of African DNA then Anglo Saxons)

And also it's logical that protagonist is white, autenthic British , couse in that time London was not so cosmopolitan city like today and number of people of different ethnicities was relatively small.

I thought Altiar looked much more Caucasian than the people around him. also should we count ezio 3 or 2 times because he got that many games?

TexasCaesar
05-13-2015, 03:13 AM
I do remember him looking white, but that was probably just bias on the part of the texture-designers. He also had an American accent. Ubisoft wasn't quite as sensitive to racial issues back in those days.

EmbodyingSeven5
05-13-2015, 03:16 AM
I do remember him looking white, but that was probably just bias on the part of the texture-designers. He also had an American accent. Ubisoft wasn't quite as sensitive to racial issues back in those days.

that's why I would consider him one of the white protagonists.

Goxxi
05-13-2015, 03:19 AM
Well maybe U can mark one Latin Meditteranean tanned guy as white protagonist but one Arab guy from Middle East definitely U can not count as white.

EmbodyingSeven5
05-13-2015, 03:25 AM
Well maybe U can mark one Latin Meditteranean tanned guy as white protagonist but one Arab guy from Middle East definitely U can not count as white.

? he looks white and has a white voice. To me, that means hes white

Goxxi
05-13-2015, 03:40 AM
well does he look "white" or not we could discuss and his voice and accent , well like someone said , back then Ubisoft was not so sensitive on that issue and they did not think that they need to hire some Middle Eastern actor and that character must be 100% autenthic Arab.

D.I.D.
05-13-2015, 04:43 AM
Altair was not white , he was an Arab and even Ezio , he was more Latin , Meditteranean type , maybe they were Caucasian which a bit more wide term then "white" , by term white are usually considered the people of Anglo Saxon heritage. (for example Meditteranean people and Arabs have higher percent of African DNA then Anglo Saxons)

And also it's logical that protagonist is white, autenthic British , couse in that time London was not so cosmopolitan city like today and number of people of different ethnicities was relatively small.

Only the USA has this idea that white Hispanic people are a whole ethnicity to themselves, or speaks of "Latin peoples". In Europe, while there's such a thing as Latin culture and Latin heritage, we don't have this 'Latin' ethnic bracket; Ezio is most definitely a white protagonist.

We don't say 'Caucasian' because the root of that word is racist. The term was invented by Christoph Meiners, a racist ethnographer who tried to popularise his made-up story that races were entirely different, and to make this work he had to give each race a birthplace. If anything, his "Caucasian" term was actually narrower than "white", since he was trying to find a way to cast Northern Europeans like himself into examples of the purest whiteness, and to cast doubt upon any mixing of racial cultures at the borders of Europe. He wrote about (as he saw it) the ugliness, stupidity and moral failings of non-white people, by comparison with white people who he considered to be the most beautiful, the cleverest, the most virtuous. For their origins he chose the Southern Caucasus, and called white people "Caucasians". So, by perpetuating the term, the USA unwittingly keeps a little piece of his repellent idea alive.

There was no inevitability about Syndicate's protagonist being white. London has been one of the trading centres of the world for centuries, and as a result has always attracted new residents from all over the world. Racism hasn't always worked the same way, nor has has race always been equally relevant to society at all class levels at once. Sometimes it seems like nobody bats an eyelid. Sometimes it's the aristocrats, or just the monarchy, that begins to object to non-white people for a time while the working poor remain integrated, or vice versa. There are black families of African heritage in the parish records during the Tudor period, and not just in provincial villages and towns but also active in the Royal Court. Catherine of Aragon's Lady of the Bedchamber (a very prestigious role for a non-royal) was from a black African Moor heritage via Spain, one of a group of black people in Catherine's entourage. She met and married a crossbowman, who was also a Moor. John Blanke was a trumpeter for both Henry VII and Henry VIII, and was of sufficient standing to be immortalised in this portrait:

http://cdn3.historyextra.com/sites/default/files/SK-A-4986-00_tiny_0.jpg

There are records which show that Elizabeth I also employed black people among her entourage, including a young "Black-a-moor" whose requirements are listed in a letter from Elizabeth to the appointed tailor: to make for him a “garcon coat… of white taphata cutt and lyned… striped with gold and silver with buckeram bayes… knitted stockings [and] white shoes”. In the 1700s, among a London black population of thousands, there were men such as Olaudah Equiano and Ignatius Sancho, successful writers and businessmen both, who died a century before the events of ACS. 80 years of age at the time of Syndicate, William Cuffay was a famous tailor, and a major leader in the Chartist political movement. Mary Seacole was a major London celebrity at this time, after her heroic life-saving work in the Crimean War, and The Times and the News of the World both recorded the huge crowds that gathered to cheer for her, so numerous that she had to be flanked by two strong policemen to help her get through the throng without being crushed - a huge celebrity of the period. When she fell on hard times, the papers set up a fund for public donations, thus saving her from bankruptcy. Samuel Coleridge Taylor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Coleridge-Taylor) is about to be born.

Record-keeping from the Tudor times onward helps us to be definite about these matters, but this isn't just 500 years, and it's not just a London thing either, or even a British thing. We can see from art and other kinds of recording that there's no such thing as a time when Europe was white and then changed. Europe's countries always traded, always had emigrants and immigrants, and were always mixed (http://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/post/72888432946/maybe-this-is-a-crazy-question-but-how-did), and we can see the evidence of this going back in time as far as representative art exists. At any time that Ubisoft wants to do it, in any place in the world, they can place any kind of character and show us any part of the world through their eyes. The excuse that we must have posh white people over-represented among our assassin characters in order for them to have the most believable access to all social levels in a majority white country is not true at all.

Here's Abram Petrovich Gannbal (1696-1781): born as a slave, eventually a Russian Major General and the great-grandfather of the writer Aleksandr Pushkin:

http://40.media.tumblr.com/d257d3711b4dd761aefa6ef74d3614ab/tumblr_mypuxnoysT1r1cuhyo1_1280.jpg

VestigialLlama4
05-13-2015, 04:59 AM
What white guy cycle? Everybody keeps forgetting that there's been about as many ethnic minorities as there have been whites as protagonists.

Not true at all. UBISOFT has tried to be more sensitive (at least until AC3) but at the end of the day they are as timid as most companies are, as far as trying to be diverse goes:

- Ezio gets three games, one animated movie, one cameo in cheapjack 2D animated movie, his theme song in AC2 continues to be recycled for no god-damn reason in ROGUE-UNITY.

- Altair gets one major game, two minor games on dead ports, one glorified extended cameo in Revelations. But Altair is the only non-white dude who gets to have his own full game, even if Ubisoft still indulged in dirty tricks like making him less Arab than the other supporting characters in AC1.

- Connor doesn't even get his own full game, since he has to share three pointless, moronic sequences with his Dad and then that gets shoehorned and makes his final act super-linear as well. So even AC3 is a compromised, though Connor does get the long DLC (where he has a more stereotypically kitschy Native American outfit). Connor was also the only real time they tried to challenge representation issues. They made you look at things and the open world by consequence from a minority perspective, you know having him speak English in a way that was different from the entire cast and from how most gamers recognize it. The end result is that Connor is "divisive" because most people had to go out of their cultural references. The game sold very well regardless and it would have been far better if Haytham had just been a supporting figure and didn't compromise his gameplay.

- After Connor, non-white heroes are relegated to niche DLCs like Freedom Cry, there's also Aveline in LIBERATION. The pits are these 2D platform Chronicles with Shao Jun and Arbaaz Mir wasted on trendy oriental kitsch games. Then you have Rogue, which is a pure racist fantasy unlike Black Flag which was fairly respectable in my view.

This actually isn't entirely about race either. Its more about cultural imperialism. UNITY has a white protagonist but its essentially one long game of French stereotypes and jokes at their expense (now granted that France and French people are silly enough that they can and should be laughed at but still...). Arno is the least French of all his cast, since even Elise has a French sounding name at the very least. So it doesn't even have the halfway approach of the Ezio games where however imperfectly they tried to put you in another culture and Ezio was as Italian as everyone else in that cast. And you know now in Syndicate they are trying to pat themselves on the back with representation by having 25% of the game with playable lady assassin (who will probably either be dead at the end or be the bad guy, you heard it here first folks).

Derp43
05-13-2015, 06:13 AM
Rogue, which is a pure racist fantasy.

Congratulations on invalidating any points that you have previously made on this forum!

TexasCaesar
05-13-2015, 06:37 AM
After what you've said about "cultural imperialism" and Rogue being "racist," I can't take anything you say seriously. I do agree, though, that the English accents for French characters was crap. It's a real shame that these companies think their audiences are so stupid that they think that all people from history spoke like the British.

Do explain how "Rogue" is racist. I haven't actually played it, so I really don't know what you're referring to.

VestigialLlama4
05-13-2015, 06:59 AM
Do explain how "Rogue" is racist. I haven't actually played it, so I really don't know what you're referring to.

Okay the plot of the game is you're a white Irish immigrant in the Assassin Brotherhood. The Assassin brotherhood is led by an African-American (actually West Indian), has another African-American as an occasional visitor. Has a woman who is an immigrant's daughter, another Irishman, and a French aristocrat. Your first targets include a slaveowner, your second target is a corrupt banker, your third is a dude who committed war crimes against Native Americans.

Then you get sent to a mission where the Assassins do what they always do, mess around with weird artifacts that are technologically advanced and intended to control humans, so as to keep them out of Templar hands. This time it turns out to be a magic artifact that causes earthquakes when you mess it with. That's right after the nice metaphorical quasi-Lovecraftian Apples of Eden, we get earthquake causing Pieces of Eden, none of that subtle and invisible mind-control, surveillance and influence stuff, straight-up physical influence and reshape of landscape that was previously ascribed to natural phenomenon in the lore. If the First Civ had devices that could be so powerful I fail to see why that Toba catastrophe was this much of a bother, there are no limits to their power then.

So then you have a series of contrived miscommunications and as a result of that Shay decides he's going to become a Templar and stop the Assassins from destroying the world. Remove the Assassin-Templar stuff, remove the First Civ and what you get is a story that says, "Put an African-American in charge and the world will end and its up to well-meaning and right-thinking rich white men to stop him and put him and his multi-cultural friends in place." That's a pure racist fantasy right there.

Derp43
05-13-2015, 08:51 AM
If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go down a tub of bleach in an attempt to erase the sheer amount of stupidity in your post from my memory.

killzab
05-13-2015, 09:45 AM
Not true at all. UBISOFT has tried to be more sensitive (at least until AC3) but at the end of the day they are as timid as most companies are, as far as trying to be diverse goes:

- Ezio gets three games, one animated movie, one cameo in cheapjack 2D animated movie, his theme song in AC2 continues to be recycled for no god-damn reason in ROGUE-UNITY.

- Altair gets one major game, two minor games on dead ports, one glorified extended cameo in Revelations. But Altair is the only non-white dude who gets to have his own full game, even if Ubisoft still indulged in dirty tricks like making him less Arab than the other supporting characters in AC1.

- Connor doesn't even get his own full game, since he has to share three pointless, moronic sequences with his Dad and then that gets shoehorned and makes his final act super-linear as well. So even AC3 is a compromised, though Connor does get the long DLC (where he has a more stereotypically kitschy Native American outfit). Connor was also the only real time they tried to challenge representation issues. They made you look at things and the open world by consequence from a minority perspective, you know having him speak English in a way that was different from the entire cast and from how most gamers recognize it. The end result is that Connor is "divisive" because most people had to go out of their cultural references. The game sold very well regardless and it would have been far better if Haytham had just been a supporting figure and didn't compromise his gameplay.

- After Connor, non-white heroes are relegated to niche DLCs like Freedom Cry, there's also Aveline in LIBERATION. The pits are these 2D platform Chronicles with Shao Jun and Arbaaz Mir wasted on trendy oriental kitsch games. Then you have Rogue, which is a pure racist fantasy unlike Black Flag which was fairly respectable in my view.

This actually isn't entirely about race either. Its more about cultural imperialism. UNITY has a white protagonist but its essentially one long game of French stereotypes and jokes at their expense (now granted that France and French people are silly enough that they can and should be laughed at but still...). Arno is the least French of all his cast, since even Elise has a French sounding name at the very least. So it doesn't even have the halfway approach of the Ezio games where however imperfectly they tried to put you in another culture and Ezio was as Italian as everyone else in that cast. And you know now in Syndicate they are trying to pat themselves on the back with representation by having 25% of the game with playable lady assassin (who will probably either be dead at the end or be the bad guy, you heard it here first folks).


WTF ? you take that back you idiot !

LOL you condemn Ubisoft's racism but you're racist yourself...

VestigialLlama4
05-13-2015, 10:49 AM
WTF ? you take that back you idiot !

Well, I didn't want to sound too pro-French. Having said that, Sarkozy and Hollande didn't elect themselves all by their lonesome now did they?



LOL you condemn Ubisoft's racism but you're racist yourself...

I am simply pointing out that France and French culture is not perfect or deserving of special treatment but it certainly deserves better than what UNITY did for them. They certainly deserve better than pseudo-BBC accents and for the hero to be the least-French of the cast, without even having a proper French name, instead they name him after the river in Ezio's hometown.

Im2aKillerfish
05-13-2015, 10:58 AM
Going to Drive-by post this thing, so I won't be reading any possible replies.

With this logic Ubisoft hates religion as the games are set in a world where there is not apparent God, one of the protagonists is trying to kill the Pope, and a character sacrifices himself to free an evil all-powerful being aka "Satan", and disobeys the good all-powerful being by doing so.

Also, Aveline actually has a larger target kill count than Shay has.

Moonshadow20222
05-13-2015, 11:03 AM
Playing as Evie is all well and good, but the REAL question that needs to be answered is...


Will Jack the Ripper be an Assassin?

Because that would be a hell of a character. An Assassin who doesn't give two shillings about the Creed or the Templars or the First Civs or the gang wars or anything. He's just in it for the body count. An Assassin who kills just because he LIKES it.

I don't think we've had a character like that yet and it would be a welcome addition.

VestigialLlama4
05-13-2015, 11:08 AM
Playing as Evie is all well and good, but the REAL question that needs to be answered is...


Will Jack the Ripper be an Assassin?

I really don't see any reason for Jack the Ripper to be an Assassin.


Because that would be a hell of a character. An Assassin who doesn't give two shillings about the Creed or the Templars or the First Civs or the gang wars or anything. He's just in it for the body count. An Assassin who kills just because he LIKES it.

First of all, the real Jack the Ripper wasn't just in it for the body count. He/She/They targetted specific people from a subset of the population, poor defenseless prostitutes who couldn't fight back. He killed them and then harvested their bodies post-mortem. That's a very specific kind of killer and mentality, not some badass mass-murderer but a creep who picked on people who couldn't fight back.


I don't think we've had a character like that yet and it would be a welcome addition.

To do that kind of story honestly, you need to be Alan Moore.

Moonshadow20222
05-13-2015, 11:21 AM
I really don't see any reason for Jack the Ripper to be an Assassin.


Well he can't be a Templar. Those guys always have someone else do the killing. Often the law men or mercs. Hell even in Rogue, The Templars had Shay do the dirty work.


First of all, the real Jack the Ripper wasn't just in it for the body count. He/She/They targetted specific people from a subset of the population, poor defenseless prostitutes who couldn't fight back. He killed them and then harvested their bodies post-mortem. That's a very specific kind of killer and mentality, not some badass mass-murderer but a creep who picked on people who couldn't fight back.

Or people he deemed guilty. Assassins claim to fight for freedom and choice, but they often play Judge, Jury and Executioner without any real evidence to prove that their methods and philosophy is right. You give a crazy person that kind of manifesto, yeah I could see someone running away with it to some pretty dark places.



To do that kind of story honestly, you need to be Alan Moore.

Or whoever wrote Outlast. Outlast was creepy.

D.I.D.
05-13-2015, 11:46 AM
Playing as Evie is all well and good, but the REAL question that needs to be answered is...


Will Jack the Ripper be an Assassin?

No, the game starts and ends in 1868. Part of me is sad about this because I'd love to have seen Victorian London fully built with all the great things that were yet to come, and I think the advanced age and approaching death of the queen would have made a good backdrop to the game - a sense that these times are dying, and they're about to change yet again. Part of me is ecstatic that we won't have this "will they/won't they" question hanging over Jack The Ripper.


Because that would be a hell of a character. An Assassin who doesn't give two shillings about the Creed or the Templars or the First Civs or the gang wars or anything. He's just in it for the body count. An Assassin who kills just because he LIKES it.

I don't think we've had a character like that yet and it would be a welcome addition.

I'm all for a more realistic assassin, and I'm sick of shining heroes. I want to see the kinds of personalities who could believably carry off an occupation like this one. There are interesting questions about being a professional killer who acts on a mixture of orders and his/her own investigations. However, The Ripper was more than simply a mass-murderer. I don't see how that story can go anywhere interesting, or be interesting for the 20-40 hours it takes to reach its conclusion. We've had people suggest that Ubisoft should do it and make the sex workers he killed be Templars, but that's as ridiculous as it is offensive.

wvstolzing
05-13-2015, 11:55 AM
I want to see the kinds of personalities who could believably carry off an occupation like this one.

Precisely. Pierre Bellec was an interesting character in this regard, but didn't quite get the treatment he deserved.

For an 'order' of killers who can slice the throats of 15 people just to get to the contents of some chest on some minor side-mission like it was nothing, I'd expect there to be more 'unstable' individuals, to say the least. All-out psychopaths, fringe 'cells' or even 'sects' of Assassins in rivalry (didn't *anyone* within the 'Assassin Order' want to branch off in a whopping 75000 years?!), and so on.

Except we get the young, brash, whatever, totally balanced and mentally healthy guy .... oh, and he kills 27 people per day.

Farlander1991
05-13-2015, 12:00 PM
oh, and he kills 27 people per day.

To be fair, the Animus wrapper prevents us from knowing how many people the Assassin has actually killed.

Though I'm really wierded out by this need for an Assassin to be a killer who just wants to kill people. People like that wouldn't be Assassins, they'd be just, well, killers and mass murderers.

VestigialLlama4
05-13-2015, 12:12 PM
Precisely. Pierre Bellec was an interesting character in this regard, but didn't quite get the treatment he deserved.

For an 'order' of killers who can slice the throats of 15 people just to get to the contents of some chest on some minor side-mission like it was nothing, I'd expect there to be more 'unstable' individuals, to say the least. All-out psychopaths, fringe 'cells' or even 'sects' of Assassins in rivalry (didn't *anyone* within the 'Assassin Order' want to branch off in a whopping 75000 years?!), and so on.

Except we get the young, brash, whatever, totally balanced and mentally healthy guy .... oh, and he kills 27 people per day.

AC1 was interesting in that Altair was a total a--hole. And he doesn't have sympathetic backstory to make him palatable. Every AC game uses some kind of cheating to make you root for the hero, AC2 showed Baby Ezio, and then he gets the Bruce Wayne Special. AC3 showed Toddler Connor and he gets the Bruce Wayne special. Black Flag was similar to Altair but then you had the flashback to his wife in Wales which kind of tugs at our heartstrings.

UNITY being shameless distilled crap that it is, uses all three - Toddler Arno, Bruce Wayne Special and Hot Love Interest.

bitebug2003
05-13-2015, 02:10 PM
Can we desist with the racist accusations and such.

Remain on Topic and stop hijacking the thread.

Fair warning

VestigialLlama4
05-13-2015, 02:14 PM
Can we desist with the racist accusations and such.

Remain on Topic and stop hijacking the thread.

Fair warning

Alright I'll behave.

Hans684
05-13-2015, 05:23 PM
Playing as Evie is all well and good, but the REAL question that needs to be answered is...
Will Jack the Ripper be an Assassin?

Jacob can become him, he's a brash and rebellious Assassins that is in it for the trill. A troublemaker, he isn't as by the book as Evie. She's more dedicated to the creed than him.


Because that would be a hell of a character. An Assassin who doesn't give two shillings about the Creed or the Templars or the First Civs or the gang wars or anything. He's just in it for the body count. An Assassin who kills just because he LIKES it.

Being in on it for the trill can count as liking what he does.


I don't think we've had a character like that yet and it would be a welcome addition.

More original than the shining knights and comic stories.

Moonshadow20222
05-13-2015, 07:25 PM
To be fair, the Animus wrapper prevents us from knowing how many people the Assassin has actually killed.

Though I'm really wierded out by this need for an Assassin to be a killer who just wants to kill people. People like that wouldn't be Assassins, they'd be just, well, killers and mass murderers.

Isn't that what the Templars and to a greater extent, the world, think that they are? A group of religious wackjobs who go around murdering people for no reason? The Assassin heroes report to no Grandmaster anymore. They choose their targets based on Templar affiliation. How many of those guards, governors, barons and nobility were really Templars and how many were just men and women following orders? Innocent lives cut down in the name of the Creed? That could be the big revelation between the player and Jack, that they are nothing but killers who refuse to admit that they enjoy the kill and parade it as a higher calling.

That would add a pretty deep dimension to the concept of how far can you go before you lose sight of the Creed.

m4r-k7
05-13-2015, 08:29 PM
No, the game starts and ends in 1868. Part of me is sad about this because I'd love to have seen Victorian London fully built with all the great things that were yet to come, and I think the advanced age and approaching death of the queen would have made a good backdrop to the game - a sense that these times are dying, and they're about to change yet again. Part of me is ecstatic that we won't have this "will they/won't they" question hanging over Jack The Ripper.
.

Interestingly on the Game Informer interview, the dev hints at perhaps another location. When asked he said

"What we’re revealing today is that Assassin’s Creed Syndicate takes place in London."

wvstolzing
05-13-2015, 08:31 PM
Interestingly on the Game Informer interview, the dev hints at perhaps another location. When asked he said

"What we’re revealing today is that Assassin’s Creed Syndicate takes place in London."

It sounds rather like he's hinting at other features, besides its taking place in London (as if to say, "that it's set in London is all that we're revealing today; for more, stay tuned, etc.")

EmbodyingSeven5
05-13-2015, 08:41 PM
If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go down a tub of bleach in an attempt to erase the sheer amount of stupidity in your post from my memory.

people like this need to be banned! speak up people!

D.I.D.
05-13-2015, 09:06 PM
Interestingly on the Game Informer interview, the dev hints at perhaps another location. When asked he said

"What we’re revealing today is that Assassin’s Creed Syndicate takes place in London."

Yeah, someone else mentioned that Jacob and Evie are supposed to hail from a location outside of London.

My money's on Brighton. They had a Brighton rail poster in the station for the target video. If they don't use Brighton itself, a great way to start the game would be a mission set on the Brighton to London train, and have us arrive in London at the end of the journey. Walking out of a big train station into London itself would be a great introduction to the city.

m4r-k7
05-13-2015, 09:07 PM
^ Also they keep on saying that the train is a mode of transport...will we actually be the driver or will it be a mode of fast travel hmmm

Xstantin
05-13-2015, 09:23 PM
^ Also they keep on saying that the train is a mode of transport...will we actually be the driver or will it be a mode of fast travel hmmm

Maybe it's Watch_Dogs train jump thingy?

m4r-k7
05-13-2015, 09:36 PM
Maybe it's Watch_Dogs train jump thingy?

Maybe, I think you also have fights on top of them :D

EmptyCrustacean
05-13-2015, 09:57 PM
I really hope not. It was a decent idea on paper, but it just wound up being cheesy and unnecessary. Plus I found it vaguely sexist that in the first game starring a female Assassin, one of the main mechanics was playing dress-up. Maybe that's just me being a *****, I dunno.

It was extremely sexist. And stupid. With the male characters they came up with so many inventive ways for stealth and easy navigation. For the female it's "oh she's a woman so all she needs to do is put on a dress and charm the guards". This is a prime example of creators being unable to see people who are physically different to them as human beings. The fact that there was actually a 'flirt' mechanic lol. Ubisoft make me cringe sometimes. Plus the game constantly kept contradicting itself - on the one hand we were told Aveline had far less rights and was treated like a second class citizen because she is mixed so surely she would need constant protection when leaving her house. But then you see her flirting with guards that would have hauled her arse on the first boat in real life. I don't give a crap about realism in my video games but at least be thematically consistent.


You really don't get it, do you? It's pandering. These idiots who made a fuss about having no female character in Unity are not a wide audience. If Ubisoft were to shoehorn in a female character because of the cries of some idiots, not only will it hurt the story (because a female character in this case wasn't intended) but it will also show that you have to stick to your vision in order to succeed. These people will never stop complaining, stop listening to people that pretend to be progressive on twitter.


I don't care if they want to make a female assassin playable in ACS, it's the reason behind it that matters. If they did this to please the fans and to quiet down the feminists, it may not do as well as it could. If they wanted to do this since development, then that is great and I have no problem with it. At least the informality is done correctly instead of not bothering to insert the apostrophes.

^^^^
What we have here, ladies and gentlemen, are two people who just simply don't want to play as a female character but rather than being an adult and admitting that they have to come out with cowardly cop-out statements like:

1) "shoe horned". Ticked.
2) "feminists!" (you know, the people who allowed people like me to vote) in a negative light. Ticked.
3) "organic!" Ticked.
4) "pandering!" Ticked.
5) "they're the minority audience!" (you're not the target audience so your views don't matter). Ticked

- Everything Ubisoft does is to please the fans. EVERYTHING.
- They made naval combat the primary feature because the fans loved it in AC3. They took away co-op because of all the complaints.
- They brought back whistling because of the complaints.
- They made combat faster because people were complaining it's too hard.
- You think Dead Kings was originally free? lol

There is nothing Ubisoft doesn't do to pander to fans. Nothing. After all, we're the ones shelling out money for their games.
It only makes sense that to give us something we actually want. Just because it's not something YOU want doesn't make it any less relevant.


I agree with your point of view, I think the whole inclusion of a female protagonist is possibly being done for the wrong reasons. But referring to the quote above, Ubisoft didn't say the the absence of females was because of Arno. And this is gonna go slightly off topic, but you are going to have to bear with me, because its been on my mind since the day is happened.

So a lot of gamers were annoyed with Ubisoft due to the fact that our assassin's couldn't be female in co-op. When the accusations of sexism and prejudice began pouring upon Ubisoft, I got kinda irritated. This is because, as most of you know due to the fact that you follow AC news, you couldn't play as females because you are playing as ARNO. This isn't your own assassin. You are playing as Arno, its not like Ubisoft are giving you the ability to literally create your own character. The co-op is linked with the singe player. You can't just change the gender of the protagonist, that is absurd.

But, why didn't Ubisoft respond to the sexism accusations with THIS? Essentially they can just say 'This isn't your own assassin'. Instead, they said that they couldn't animate female characters. Why? It literally boggles my mind. They have an honest, perfectly logical explanation for the lack of female assassin's and they didn't use it? Why didn't they tell the truth in that Arno isn't your own assassin instead of creating an excuse that is bound to generate a negative reputation for the company and brand? I am missing something? I'd love to hear a response for this.

Also, stream starts in 2 hours. My body is ready

Because, originally, you were Arno but what you saw the other players as different characters hence why there are different male faces alongside Arno on Unity box art. Amanio even said that no two players would be seen wearing similar outfits on screen. At some point Ubi decided to just make everyone Arno presumably because they ran out of time.


That would be too unrealistic , as we can see the Victorian London was dangerous place , too dangerous that one girl could solve the things , I mean how many women were a gang leaders back then or how many women are leaders of the gangs even now ? It's very difficult to imagine that , especially couse in that time women had much more passive role in society then today and their only roles in society were to cook , clean the house and to take care of the children. It was practically impossible that one girl could cope for a position of gang leader , but something like Evie's role where she stands next to his brother and where she's some some sort of back up , that already seems more realistic and could work.

"Oh, realism!!! Reeaaaaliiiiissm! Realism in my power fantasy videos games where I can take out entire armies with a small blade! Gritty! Grounded! Etc!"


Altair was not white , he was an Arab and even Ezio , he was more Latin , Meditteranean type , maybe they were Caucasian which a bit more wide term then "white" , by term white are usually considered the people of Anglo Saxon heritage. (for example Meditteranean people and Arabs have higher percent of African DNA then Anglo Saxons) And also it's logical that protagonist is white, autenthic British , couse in that time London was not so cosmopolitan city like today and number of people of different ethnicities was relatively small.

Oh my God. Oh my Gooooooood. This has to be the most pathetic thing I've seen on the forums. If you're having to pretend Ezio wasn't white to disprove the ethnic imbalance then you've reached a new low, sorry. It's is all symantecs. An Italian today would have a cow if you look him/her in the face and told them they're not white. Goodness, the ignorance.


Okay the plot of the game is you're a white Irish immigrant in the Assassin Brotherhood. The Assassin brotherhood is led by an African-American (actually West Indian), has another African-American as an occasional visitor. Has a woman who is an immigrant's daughter, another Irishman, and a French aristocrat. Your first targets include a slaveowner, your second target is a corrupt banker, your third is a dude who committed war crimes against Native Americans.

Then you get sent to a mission where the Assassins do what they always do, mess around with weird artifacts that are technologically advanced and intended to control humans, so as to keep them out of Templar hands. This time it turns out to be a magic artifact that causes earthquakes when you mess it with. That's right after the nice metaphorical quasi-Lovecraftian Apples of Eden, we get earthquake causing Pieces of Eden, none of that subtle and invisible mind-control, surveillance and influence stuff, straight-up physical influence and reshape of landscape that was previously ascribed to natural phenomenon in the lore. If the First Civ had devices that could be so powerful I fail to see why that Toba catastrophe was this much of a bother, there are no limits to their power then.

So then you have a series of contrived miscommunications and as a result of that Shay decides he's going to become a Templar and stop the Assassins from destroying the world. Remove the Assassin-Templar stuff, remove the First Civ and what you get is a story that says, "Put an African-American in charge and the world will end and its up to well-meaning and right-thinking rich white men to stop him and put him and his multi-cultural friends in place." That's a pure racist fantasy right there.

I found it interesting that Adewale is the only Assassin we've played as that Ubisoft actually made us, the player, kill. That's how expendable he was. Disgusting. Even Rockstar had the class to let Trevor kill Johnny in the cut scenes, not in actual game play. Ubisoft would prefer we play as a white Templar in his own full game than a black Assassin. Let us not forget that the first ever black person Ubisoft featured in the series was titled 'the African' (yes, that's what he was actually called; they didn't think he was human enough to give him a bloody name) and he was one of Ezio's targets. Says it all really.

GunnerGalactico
05-13-2015, 10:08 PM
Maybe, I think you also have fights on top of them :D

Although off-topic for this thread, I've always been wanting to parkour on a moving train or fight thugs while standing on the carts. It would be really cool if we could do that. :D

Locopells
05-13-2015, 10:24 PM
Alright people, keep it cool...

RA503
05-19-2015, 12:30 AM
Guys,I wrote in a tread that haytham gameplay in AC 3 is below 25 %,but I start to count,3 sequences of 12 is exactily 25 % :nonchalance: we only will have three sequences with Evie in AC S ? is just like Haytham but with the diference that we can switch any time and do side missions any time with Evie.watch you think ?

The_Kiwi_
05-19-2015, 12:33 AM
I'd prefer it if we had 0 sequences of Evie

Dual protagonists is an annoying idea
What will make it worse is if you go back and forth between them

Haytham and Connor made sense from an animus point of view, Jacob and Evie do not

phoenix-force411
05-19-2015, 02:42 AM
Let's hope it does better than ACIII's. Haytham took up too much time which led to Connor having less time in his own game. I feel like this won't go too well, because it just feels like she's been given those sequences because of the uproar that happened with Unity about female playable characters

Altair1789
05-19-2015, 02:47 AM
I agree with Kiwi, the idea of twin protagonists doesn't (shouldn't) work with the animus stuff. I don't like the new surrogate system stuff, but that's the only way the game can continue without Desmond, so oh well

Charles_Phipps
05-19-2015, 03:41 AM
I'd prefer it if we had 0 sequences of Evie

Dual protagonists is an annoying idea
What will make it worse is if you go back and forth between them

Haytham and Connor made sense from an animus point of view, Jacob and Evie do not

How, exactly, do you figure?

Do you know what the point is?

Maybe Evie's sequences are "rescue Jacob when he's captured" or "take over when Jacob is killed."

Namikaze_17
05-19-2015, 03:53 AM
As long as they're not short as hell or drag out like Haytham's, I'll be fine.

As for making sense lore-wise, who cares? It's AC. They'll obviously find some contrived way of explaining it...

Thirsty_panda
05-19-2015, 04:17 AM
I'd prefer it if we had 0 sequences of Evie

Dual protagonists is an annoying idea
What will make it worse is if you go back and forth between them

Haytham and Connor made sense from an animus point of view, Jacob and Evie do not



They referred to the new animus as a cloud based system didn't they? All samples uploaded should be accessible interchangeably then.

ShadowStar83x
05-19-2015, 04:24 AM
Guys,I wrote in a tread that haytham gameplay in AC 3 is below 25 %,but I start to count,3 sequences of 12 is exactily 25 % :nonchalance: we only will have three sequences with Evie in AC S ? is just like Haytham but with the diference that we can switch any time and do side missions any time with Evie.watch you think ?I thought I read you can use whichever one you want in free roam.

The_Kiwi_
05-19-2015, 04:43 AM
[/B]


They referred to the new animus as a cloud based system didn't they? All samples uploaded should be accessible interchangeably then.


How, exactly, do you figure?

Do you know what the point is?

Maybe Evie's sequences are "rescue Jacob when he's captured" or "take over when Jacob is killed."

Let me break it down for you

Animus = you relive memories of your ancestors
Haytham was Desmond's ancestor, and so he explored his memories to find the key
Haytham passed on his last memory through Connor, who was also an ancestor of Desmond, before he hid the key
So Desmond, through the logic of direct lineage, was able to also view Connor's memories, in order to get the key

Helix = cloud based system, where you can relive the memories of anyone's ancestors, as long as you have their blood
Evie and Jacob are brother and sister, therefore have two separate bloodlines
There would need to be two separate donors in order to view both sets of memories (highly convenient), or incest would have had to occur so that the two bloodlines became one
Being able to switch back and forth is just a cheesy gimmick that defies the logic of the blood memories, just to make feminists happy and make it seem that Syndicate is worthwhile

And as for being interchangeable, there would have to be drastic changes between the two characters for me to get on board with it
I'm talking like having to reload the game, changing optional objectives and possibly other things
If they treat it like a Lego game where you can just change character on the fly, I will not be impressed at all
But, if they do something like "Jacob dies, so we have no more memories but we need to continue to explore London, so we'll play as his sister", that'll be okay I guess
But that raises more questions, like "why not just play as her the whole time?"

Charles_Phipps
05-19-2015, 04:58 AM
Well, not really, it depends on what exactly the Modern Day context is.

"We have the memories of these two twins and we know one of them encountered the Whatever The **** we're looking for this week at Abstergo so we're just going to have to explore both memories to find out who has it."

I-Like-Pie45
05-19-2015, 04:59 AM
I'd prefer it if we had 0 sequences of Evie

Dual protagonists is an annoying idea
What will make it worse is if you go back and forth between them

Haytham and Connor made sense from an animus point of view, Jacob and Evie do not

Only more support for the special surprise sure to be waiting at the end of the game.
http://i.imgur.com/r6ZwP2Z.gif

The_Kiwi_
05-19-2015, 05:41 AM
Well, not really, it depends on what exactly the Modern Day context is.

"We have the memories of these two twins and we know one of them encountered the Whatever The **** we're looking for this week at Abstergo so we're just going to have to explore both memories to find out who has it."

The modern day context is irrelevant, as my argument suits all contexts


Only more support for the special surprise sure to be waiting at the end of the game.
http://i.imgur.com/r6ZwP2Z.gif

Brian, you're such a clever bear