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Billy_BigBoy
06-21-2004, 05:00 AM
Last night I was flying online at the UK dedicated server when my Yak-9 came into a flat spin. I could't handle the plane anymore and bailed out.
Then it happened. The wings of the spinning Yak just cut my wires and hit me in the stomage.
And of the came, sounds familiar? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

http://www.forumsigs.com/users/Billy_BigBoy586/Billy_mod.jpg

Billy_BigBoy
06-21-2004, 05:00 AM
Last night I was flying online at the UK dedicated server when my Yak-9 came into a flat spin. I could't handle the plane anymore and bailed out.
Then it happened. The wings of the spinning Yak just cut my wires and hit me in the stomage.
And of the came, sounds familiar? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

http://www.forumsigs.com/users/Billy_BigBoy586/Billy_mod.jpg

JG52Uther
06-21-2004, 05:03 AM
In real life bailing out was dangerous.the German ace H.J Marseille s killed when he was hit by the rudder while bailing out!

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/JG52Uther/me109JG1.jpg JG52 The Butcherbirds

Sam_the_greek
06-21-2004, 05:17 AM
Which can be the start of an interesting topic. How did fighterpilots bail out, was there a certain technique or something like turning the plane upside down?? I saw a guncam film in which a pilot could be seen bailing and it was like he was catapulted out of the plane. Very spectacular!! Give your opinions!!

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ilsigs/spitfire.jpg

G├┬Âring: "Gibt es noch etwas das ich f├╝r Sie tun kan?"
Galland: "Jawul Herr Feldmarschalk, geben Sie mir ein Staffel Spitfires!"
"The Battle of Britain"

JG52Uther
06-21-2004, 05:27 AM
There were different techniques i think,like turning the plane upside down,or diving and getting catapulted out,or, even climbing out onto the wing and sliding off http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif.It was all still dangerous though and i think you would have to be desperate to bail out!

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/JG52Uther/me109JG1.jpg JG52 The Butcherbirds

F19_Olli72
06-21-2004, 05:45 AM
Bailing out wasnt a quick fix to get out of trouble irl as its in FB (unless u get shot in the chute of course). It was dangerous as JG52Uther already pointed out, many things could go wrong.... jammed canopy, hitting the tail or something when bailing (saw an interview of a Bf110 nightfighter pilot who got stuck at the tail of his plane when it went down, luckily for him he got loose after a while). Also many pilots were badly burned when they got burning fuel and oil on them. IIRC Knoke wrote about a german pilot who bailed out in + 800 km/h, doesnt sound fun to me...he also wrote that he (Knoke) at one occation when bailing he bunted his plane forward so he was thrown out of it by the g force.

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Olli72/Forgotten%20Battles/cloudtut/sig2.jpg (http://www.screenshotart.com)

[This message was edited by F19_Olli72 on Mon June 21 2004 at 04:55 AM.]

JG52_Helgstrand
06-21-2004, 06:18 AM
It's also hard to bail out of a spinning plane because of centrifugal force...Sometimes impossible.

Hptm.Helgstrand
JG52 Recruiting Officer
JG52 The Butcherbirds (http://www.geocities.com/jg52thebutcherbirds/)
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JtD
06-21-2004, 07:30 AM
You have to do a lot of training. Once you're good at it, you'll do it like this guy:

http://mitglied.lycos.de/jaytdee/pech03.jpg

http://mitglied.lycos.de/jaytdee/pech04.jpg

http://mitglied.lycos.de/jaytdee/pech05.jpg

Kuikueg
06-21-2004, 07:30 AM
I will try to quote and translate the best I can from a book on the Spanish Civil War. The plane the author is talking about is I-16. Please bear with my clumsy English:

"A tactic for survival used at least once by a soviet pilot, who lived to tell about his experience, was as follows:

The pilot inverted his harassed and badly damaged plane, flying very low [like 30 m] hoping that the enemy thought him dead and stopped firing.
Next thing was to release the belts, falling upside down, and pulling the chute ring as soon as his body had room. The pilot followed a high speed ballistic trajectory and going a long way with little height loss. In this conditions, the chute didn't need 200 m to open, as is usual in low speed jumps.[...]
The pull of the opening chute was brutal, and likely to cause organic damage due to deceleration."


Well, it seems it was a hard life for these pilots.

S!

Kuikueg

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v293/Queequeg/IL2FB/jg27_gunsynch2.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
06-21-2004, 07:40 AM
mmm, interesting. um...can you translate more http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

A B~17 dude described watching another B~17 go down. One guy managed to make it out onto the wing, holding on tight, but had no chute (panic rush to get out). He tried to get back in to get it but the wind blew him off just then. I think about that one alot, it burned into my memory for some reason.

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Kuikueg
06-21-2004, 08:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
mmm, interesting. um...can you translate more http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I could, but it would not be related to the topic.

Sorry about the double post. I have already deleted the second.

It would be nice to have a key to pull the chute ring in il2fb, so to try the described maneouvre.

S!

Kuikueg

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v293/Queequeg/IL2FB/jg27_gunsynch2.jpg

Kamikaze_Gibbon
06-21-2004, 09:38 AM
Being killed by your own plane is a familiar story in FB, well it is for me anyway http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif.

I have had occasions where I have bailed from a P-39 in a flat spin and was initially falling faster than the plane, before the parachute opened, only to have the 'chute open and the wings of my stricken aircraft demolish the parachute and send my virtual being hurtling down to its death thousands of feet below http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

Even more amusing is to bail out of an aircraft in what you thought was an unrecoverable spin only for it to 'auto-recover' as soon as you leave it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Indianer.
06-21-2004, 12:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

Even more amusing is to bail out of an aircraft in what you thought was an unrecoverable spin only for it to 'auto-recover' as soon as you leave it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


lol....yeah had that happen before......funny

http://www.fighter-collection.com/film/img/dark_blue_world.jpg

"Wer auf die preussische Fahne schwort, hat nichts mehr, was ihm selber gehort"

DrDave242
06-21-2004, 12:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kamikaze_Gibbon:
Even more amusing is to bail out of an aircraft in what you thought was an unrecoverable spin only for it to 'auto-recover' as soon as you leave it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Haven't had that happen before, although recently I was flying in an offline campaign and had my elevator controls shot to hell by flak as I was flying fairly low and descending slightly. With no way to pull up, I punch out, hoping I might have enough altitude to get the chute open. The canopy pops off and seconds tick by as my plane gets closer and closer to the ground. Finally my pilot bails, does a short free-fall, opens the chute, and SPLAT! Not quite enough time to decelerate. In the distance I see my plane level off as it skims the treetops, then slowly climb back into the sky. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif

---
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DuxCorvan
06-21-2004, 12:56 PM
Kuikueg, that book reminds me of a book I own which contains Captain Lacalle's experiences as a I-15 'Chato' squad leader. That book is one of my SCW favourites.

Is it the same one?

Si no lo es, Ô┬┐podr├┬*as darme el t├┬*tulo? Me gusta acaparar datos sobre la guerra a├ęrea en Espa˝a. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- Dux Corvan -
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Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

ST__Spyke
06-21-2004, 01:41 PM
ive heard the safest way is to roll the plane inverted (upside down) and fall out. never failed in AEP, suppose though (like in AEP) when you lose your tail and the plane spirals down out of control, and you fall through the prop http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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lindyman
06-21-2004, 01:47 PM
One of my aerobatics instructors once bailed out. He wasn't hit by the plane, but he was convinced that if there's even the slightest chance of making a successful emergency landing, that's the prefereable way. When he bailed out, the straps under his legs snapped, so there he hung, clinging to the harness for his life, with a strap around his neck. Well, he did survive to tell about it.
_
/Bjorn.

lindyman
06-21-2004, 01:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kamikaze_Gibbon:
Even more amusing is to bail out of an aircraft in what you thought was an unrecoverable spin only for it to 'auto-recover' as soon as you leave it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Happens in real life. I was told about one aircraft (but I can't for my life remember which,) that had a problem, early in its life, of getting into unrecovereable spins. When one of the test pilots got into that, he jettisoned the canopy, released his straps, and stood up to make the jump. When he was standing on the seat, with his hands on the windscreen frame, CoG moved sufficiently forward for the spin to stop, so the guy climbed back in again and landed the aircraft.

Well, honestly, I don't know of it's true, but it's a good story none the less.
_
/Bjorn.

CRSutton
06-21-2004, 01:57 PM
Was reading last night about one of the Doolittle raiders. He dislocated both arms when bailing out. His chute harness was not on tight enough and the force of the chute opening did the job. Must have hurt. About 50% of the aircrew got hurt in some way when their chutes deployed. Some were knocked out cold.

Would it make sense to put a plane into a stall and then bail at the top of the stall. Only real problem with that would be the prop.

JJaguar
06-21-2004, 02:38 PM
One time I was in a spin in an otherwise undamaged bf110 that I didn't think I had enough altitude to recover from, so I bailed out. I got out of the plane while in a dive under 1000m (IIRC around 600-700m). Well, my unmanned plane recovered on it's own and entered a gentle spiraling climb, due to the fact that I had left the throttles set to around 90% when I got out. I watched it for awhile in chase plane view as it circled my position and climbed to around 4000m before I finally quit. I wonder how long it would have circled until it crashed? Probably would have had to wait for it to run out of fuel. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Anyway, I recall reading in a reprint of the P-38 pilot's manual that the tail made bailing out particularly hazardous. The technique for getting out of this plane was to pop the canopy, climb out onto one wing, and slide off the back of the wing and (hopefully) under the tail.

I also remember reading somewhere (IIRC in the book "Lucky 13", the memoirs of a Canadian pilot who flew Hurricanes and Spits), that this pilot's engine was badly damaged on one occasion. He tried to stay with the plane as long as possible, but it caught fire and flames started to enter the cockpit. So he bailed out by opening the canopy, undoing his straps, standing on the seat, and pushing the stick forward. The negative g's ejected him out of the cockpit.

darkhorizon11
06-21-2004, 03:16 PM
Years ago I was watching some WW2 special probably the history channel (I don't watch it much anymore), it a bunch of wartime instructional videos for pilots on how to survive. Lightening pilots were instructed to roll onto the inboard part of the wing and let yourself get blown off back and you should fall through without hitting the rear stabilizor. Of course this was all assuming your able to get the plane straight and level.

In my spin training over a year ago there were three steps that I still remember now.
The 3 H's

1.Harness (5 point safety harness just pull the latch and it comes undone)

2.Headset (take it off)

3. Handle (the plane had a bubble canopy so we would reach up to release it from the latch, normally we would pull it back if we exiting the plane during a flight. But in an emergency there were two buttons to smash hard on each side of the cockpit and when you did so the canopy would fly off because of spring mounting)

After this our rule of thumb was to jump for the wingtip. so you would be less likely to get smacked by the empennage.

A130
06-21-2004, 07:33 PM
One of the upsides of getting shot a lot is that I get a lot of practice with emergency landings and, more commonly, bailing out.

For fun, I try to make "historically accurate" bailouts, either rolling the plane inverted (low speed or high altitude) or nosing down to catapult. (High speed or low altitude.) I don't believe that the game engine recognizes any differences. You hit CTRL+E, the canopy comes off, a few seconds go by, and you bail -- even in a hard spin. It would be pretty neat if PF incorporated something like this, but this certainly isn't a deal-breaker for me -- me buying that game is pretty much a sure thing at this point. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Has anyone else noticed that bailouts are impossible at very high speeds? I encountered this in a 262, high throttle, almost vertical dive, and I lost elevators and rudder. I hit CTRL+E for all I was worth but never made it out. Am I mistaken here, or is this actually modelled?

Ak9779
06-21-2004, 08:01 PM
I believe it is modelled.. I've had a at least two instances where I seemed unable to get out of the cockpit after trying to bail... it was a looong ride down both times, believe me. I think being wounded also effects your bailout time..

One story I read recently centers on a US naval divebomber pilot (I forget what type, but it was Pacific theatre) who was hit by flak in a dive, and lost a good deal of wing. The plane starts spinning, and he thinks he can't recover, so he orders the crew to bail out. He waits till they bail, then has his own harness off and is about to jump, when the plane rights itself. So he sits back down and flys the thing back to his carrier. (had to water ditch) Evidently the rest of his crew were cut up by AAA in their straps.

Now that must've been a hard thing to deal with....

On a slightly less depressing note, I have one instance where I was flying an early 109 against I-16's, and predictably had my *** handed to me. Bullets through the cockpit, the works. I to into a spin. I bail out. Very, VERY close to the ground, so my chute does not open, and *splat*. Then to add insult to injury, my 109 lands on me a split second later.

I imagine the chiropractor's bill was enormous.

I have a track of it in case anyone wants to witness my untimely, pancakelike demise. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

later,
Ak

Flying and Dying!

WTE_Galway
06-21-2004, 11:21 PM
one of the more interesting RL emergency landing stories was told to me by the ludicrously high hours 70 year old chief pilot at my old flying school who had a total of five engine failures over his career which was mainly bush flying

he said the trick on surviving an emergency landing in scrubby country was to line up exactly between two trees so that both wings came off at once as you went in

Kuikueg
06-22-2004, 05:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Kuikueg, that book reminds me of a book I own which contains Captain Lacalle's experiences as a I-15 'Chato' squad leader. That book is one of my SCW favourites.

Is it the same one?

Si no lo es, Ô┬┐podr├┬*as darme el t├┬*tulo? Me gusta acaparar datos sobre la guerra a├ęrea en Espa˝a. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Se trata de Aviaci├┬│n Mundial en Espa˝a, de Miranda y Mercado, Editorial Silex. Es el primer tomo de los tres proyectados, dedicado a aviones norteamericanos y rusos. Yo tengo los dos primeros. Dudo que el tercero haya llegado a publicarse. Si no recuerdo mal, hab├┬*a alg├┬║n ejemplar en la librer├┬*a de ocasi├┬│n de la plaza San Francisco, al fondo, abajo.

S!

Kuikueg

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v293/Queequeg/IL2FB/jg27_gunsynch2.jpg
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tigertalon
06-22-2004, 05:37 AM
Technique most used by fighters was to fly straight, unfasten your belts, cross your hands on stomack, belt legs and kick the stick with one leg away from you. Plane dove instantly, g force catapulted pilot out without danger of hitting rudder or any parts of plane. Only danger was that you injured your leg which was extended now.

Of course this works in theory. Doing that without one wing is totally different story...


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sam_the_greek:
Which can be the start of an interesting topic. How did fighterpilots bail out, was there a certain technique or something like turning the plane upside down?? I saw a guncam film in which a pilot could be seen bailing and it was like he was catapulted out of the plane. Very spectacular!! Give your opinions!!


http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ilsigs/spitfire.jpg

G├┬Âring: "Gibt es noch etwas das ich f├╝r Sie tun kan?"
Galland: "Jawul Herr Feldmarschalk, geben Sie mir ein Staffel Spitfires!"
"The Battle of Britain"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

regards, tt