PDA

View Full Version : Just Watched History Channel's "MiG-15" WOW



Dammerung
07-23-2004, 09:09 PM
They had interviews with I believe 5 Russian MiG pilots, 2 aces, and a couple Sabre Pilots, and the North Korean Pilot who defected and surrendered his Aircraft. There was a LOT of Guncam footage, amazing stuff. One shot of a B-29 getting Shredded to pieces, watch that along with an Attack on a B-17, what a difference. For those who don't know much about the Korean Air war or First Generation Jets, really should look into it. The program said that Korean and Chinese MiG pilots were just instructed on how to take off and land, then sent on their way, no wonder the Sabres had a 10:1 kill ratio. The pilots(Including a 20-kill ace), said they absolutely loved the airplane(One kissed it after it took enormous Punishment from a Sabre and made it home), and said that even though their MiG-15 was better, the engagement still rested on pilot skill, Unfortunatly, that is now starting to go out the window with UACVs(Waste of time if you ask me, but that's another rant). It's worth looking into the subject, even if only to watch the Guncamera films, incredible. Korea was the last "WWII Style" dogfights, but just 300mph faster, so, even if jets aren't your fancy, it's still worth looking into(Did you know the MiG-15 was created by winning a billiards game?).

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

Dammerung
07-23-2004, 09:09 PM
They had interviews with I believe 5 Russian MiG pilots, 2 aces, and a couple Sabre Pilots, and the North Korean Pilot who defected and surrendered his Aircraft. There was a LOT of Guncam footage, amazing stuff. One shot of a B-29 getting Shredded to pieces, watch that along with an Attack on a B-17, what a difference. For those who don't know much about the Korean Air war or First Generation Jets, really should look into it. The program said that Korean and Chinese MiG pilots were just instructed on how to take off and land, then sent on their way, no wonder the Sabres had a 10:1 kill ratio. The pilots(Including a 20-kill ace), said they absolutely loved the airplane(One kissed it after it took enormous Punishment from a Sabre and made it home), and said that even though their MiG-15 was better, the engagement still rested on pilot skill, Unfortunatly, that is now starting to go out the window with UACVs(Waste of time if you ask me, but that's another rant). It's worth looking into the subject, even if only to watch the Guncamera films, incredible. Korea was the last "WWII Style" dogfights, but just 300mph faster, so, even if jets aren't your fancy, it's still worth looking into(Did you know the MiG-15 was created by winning a billiards game?).

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

LEXX_Luthor
07-23-2004, 09:21 PM
A previous roomate's dad worked on the electronics of that first Defected MiG~15. Said the guts were a tangled mess, a Nightmare.

You know better than be Sloppy and post MiG~15 was created by billiards, in case you wish to tell the rest of the story you heard, for those who may not know.

-- although the engine is the core essence of any airplane. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Dammerung
07-23-2004, 09:38 PM
Of course =)

Mikoyan and Gurevich visited the Rolls Royce plant in england and had a game of billiards with the British and lost. They raised the stakes, rights to purchase the engine, and in a close Game, won, and got the Rolls Royce they needed for making Jets. And the Legend of Incredible Short range aircraft was born, on a Billiards table.

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 09:42 PM
wow

first time hearing that story for me

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

M.R.Maiornikov
07-23-2004, 09:45 PM
The USSR got the Rolls Royce engine because of the british politic to help the USSR (atleast that what i hear)i never heard of the billiard game http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

------------------------------------------------------------
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov

Dammerung
07-23-2004, 09:48 PM
Russians have this ability to take something, Copy it, and use it as a basis for things to come later, and FAR improve them. Masters of reverse engineering they are. But yes, a pool game won the rights to the engine.

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

Obi_Kwiet
07-23-2004, 09:53 PM
They based thier airfields in main-land china right next to the border so we couldn't bomb them. The Migs had a decreacing advantage untill the last variant of the saber to see action.

LEXX_Luthor
07-23-2004, 10:11 PM
The billiards story is new for me too. I first heard it on teh USA Dogfighter Channel, but for all I know its never been told before. Bill Gunsten just says the Brits tripped over themselves trying to ship the Nene to USSR. Maybe the story is just recently revealed, or constructed for whatever purpose.

Another thing is that teh Dogfighter Channel never said anything about what the Soviets offered for a bet to cover the Game.

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

M.R.Maiornikov
07-23-2004, 10:15 PM
Man you got to be kookoo http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif to bet that great engine.As a russian i'm proud we won it lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
But to tell you the truth i don't really believe that it's the way that it happened.It seems too childish...and i'm sure that the brits are not dumb to loose a Rolls Royce engine in a billiard game.There is something else that made them do it.
------------------------------------------------------------
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov

LEXX_Luthor
07-23-2004, 10:23 PM
Yes, I forgot who was supposed to make the Bet. If it was one of the Nene senior designers, how can he/she get it cleared for fifty Nenes to be shipped East? And who paid for them? Rolls Royce or Brit government. The Deal may have involved Duncan Sandys. I dunno. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

M.R.Maiornikov
07-24-2004, 01:03 AM
Just saw the replay of this program,and the footage was pretty good.Only one thing dissapointed me,that koream pilot who defected to u.s. forces.AS for Dammerung the 1:10 kill ratio is only the affirmation by the U.S.site,The russians claimed 4;1 ration in their favour,so you clearly can't count it as official statistics.

------------------------------------------------------------
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov

Korolov
07-24-2004, 01:22 AM
All that matters is that people got shot down. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

M.R.Maiornikov
07-24-2004, 01:27 AM
Man poor koreans,learned take off and landings and up you go.And it's true that statistics are not important,the important thing is that human lives were lost.

------------------------------------------------------------
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov

Dawg-of-death
07-24-2004, 01:47 AM
I saw the program. Mig 15 was awsome plane. Still is.................

Bad-MF(Mongrel Fighter) AKA .......Dawg-of-death

LuftLuver
07-24-2004, 02:43 AM
I've been hoping for years: IL10~Korea!

I post the following just to stir thoughts and point out how many a/c would already be done for such an expansion pack. I don't need BOB yet. Long live the IL2 series! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

http://www.1stoppostershop.com/products/Impact/Planes/im_F86Sabre.jpg

http://www.f4aviation.co.uk/airshow03/legends/skyraider.jpg

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/warbirds_en_normandie/Pages%20new/Images/La9/La9%20park%20arriere.jpg

http://acealpha.com/review/il2_review_1/il2review_ROK/il10.png

http://www.fighterplanes.net/yak9.2.jpg

http://www.pierre-gabriele.com/Avions/Corsair.jpg

β"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Ά
"All your bases are belong to us."

Dammerung
07-24-2004, 04:31 PM
The IL-10 flew in WWII, it's a much badder IL-2, I'd hate to go against it. And There may have been a 4:1 kill ratio for RUSSIANS ONLY, but there is no way Those Koreans and Chinese could achieve that against the USAF's finest in their greatest aircraft. Both Sabre and MiG pilots were WWII vets, and I believe the Kill Ratio, as not propaganda, as the cold war wasnt at it's peak, and in Vietnam, we easily admitted that the MiGs got 1:1 on the F-4s.

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

M.R.Maiornikov
07-24-2004, 04:39 PM
My only point is that you can't use 10;1 kill ratio as official statistics.As i already said it was what american side affirmed.

------------------------------------------------------------
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov

Dmac310th
07-24-2004, 04:50 PM
For some reason i very remotely remember this story concerning the billiards game. The bet was not for the actual engine pieces. I believe the Russians where there in england to actually recieve one of the NENE engines from Rolls-Royce. What the billiards bet was about was if the Russians won they would get a tour of the secret engine constructions facilities. The Russians I believe offered a tour of one of their facilities as a reciprocal bet. Well after the Russians won the close game, they recieved their tour. During the tour one of the Russian delegates, wearing shoes with unusually soft soled shoes stood in the metals shavings from where the turbine blades where constructed. Due to this the russians where able to reverse engineer what the blades where constructed of and reproduce copies form the engines they already had. Now if any one else has heard this legend. Please remind me where i heard it, and if i'm correct in attaching it to how the Russians were able to reproduce the rolls royce engine.

XO 310 FS
XO 380 BG(H)
http://imageshack.us/files/Dmac.jpg

huggy87
07-24-2004, 05:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M.R.Maiornikov:
My only point is that you can't use 10;1 kill ratio as official statistics.As i already said it was what american side affirmed.

------------------------------------------------------------
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/MRMaiornikov-sovietAF.jpg

The RED GUARD (777th Gv.I.A.P)-"For The Glory Of Our Motherland"
Lt.M.R.Maiornikov<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the americans claimed a 16:1 kill ratio. Only in the last ten years, as new info was released from the FSU, has the kill ratio been adjusted down (and I don't know if that is official).

Also interesting is that many U.S. pilots swore on their lives that they were up against soviet pilots. The Soviets denied direct involvement for 40 years. Only recently has the truth been released that many of the pilots were Soviet.

LEXX_Luthor
07-24-2004, 05:08 PM
umm...Russians were given about 50 Nene engines I heard.

One may assume such a Gift shipped with complete design specs. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The metal shavings story pops up everywhere, including with the Chinese.

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif