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1.JaVA_Razer
12-26-2003, 04:08 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Annyone? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I wanna do some head-on passes on bombers and fighters but can't seem to hit annything.
It's weird asking for tactics but more of an how to guide.

So it it preffered to start lower then opponent,or higher etc,... where to aim at a bomber for example...
thx in advance

1.JaVA_Razer
12-26-2003, 04:08 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Annyone? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I wanna do some head-on passes on bombers and fighters but can't seem to hit annything.
It's weird asking for tactics but more of an how to guide.

So it it preffered to start lower then opponent,or higher etc,... where to aim at a bomber for example...
thx in advance

arcadeace
12-26-2003, 04:18 PM
I always thought head-on is what it meant. Once each of you has the other in direct sight it's a matter of aim, trajectory and potency. I'm looking forward to it when we get the P-38

JG14_Josf
12-26-2003, 04:24 PM
12 oclock high attacks afford a very good shot opportunity.

Timing is important.

Time the decent from 500 meters above the bombers to aim nose low at the bombers. Don't dive until it is almost too late.

This late nose low attack affords a top down planform shot on the bomber.

If the drop to attack is done too soon then the attack angle off the nose of the bomber is progressively less.

Less angle off the nose increases the risk of head-on collisions and minimizes the exposed target area.

When the dive to attack is timed well the target picture is the entire top surface of the bomber.

Aim ahead of the bomber and push forward on the stick to concentrate all the fire in one area. Let the bomber fly through the stream of fire.

When the timing is right a good shot is possible with plenty of room to pull out of the attack dive without risk of collision.

Don't forget to jink to avoid defensive fire.

I have a practice coop mission I can send if you send your e-mail address.

I can make a track file too if you are interested.

josf.kelley@verizon.net

F19_Orheim
12-26-2003, 04:32 PM
Avoid head-on. It's like Russian roulette, but with worse odds

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Korolov
12-26-2003, 04:33 PM
On bombers - Simple. You come at the bomber from the front and usually from either a higher or lower position, and get the proper lead required to hit. Land your targets right on the engines, cockpit, etc.

Fighters - depends. Like going headon with a P-47 in a Bf-109, you don't want to do that. Only go head on against another fighter if all other options are spent.

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TX-Zen
12-26-2003, 04:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG14_Josf:
12 oclock high attacks afford a very good shot opportunity.

Timing is important.

Time the decent from 500 meters above the bombers to aim nose low at the bombers. Don't dive until it is almost too late.

This late nose low attack affords a top down planform shot on the bomber.

If the drop to attack is done too soon then the attack angle off the nose of the bomber is progressively less.

Less angle off the nose increases the risk of head-on collisions and minimizes the exposed target area.

When the dive to attack is timed well the target picture is the entire top surface of the bomber.

Aim ahead of the bomber and push forward on the stick to concentrate all the fire in one area. Let the bomber fly through the stream of fire.

When the timing is right a good shot is possible with plenty of room to pull out of the attack dive without risk of collision.

Don't forget to jink to avoid defensive fire.

I have a practice coop mission I can send if you send your e-mail address.

I can make a track file too if you are interested.

josf.kelley@verizon.net<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


While I prefer pure head on attacks with zero angle off, your description of a diving attack is very well written and makes sense. Salute for a good post.

Orheim:
I would suggest your post to read "...unless you are in a focke wulf, then go for the head to head every chance you get." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
S~!

TX-Zen
Black 6
TX-Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM Only)
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DONB3397
12-26-2003, 04:51 PM
Maybe the LW pilots had it right. They made head-on passes, rolled over on their backs and dived through the stream at full speed. After the B17G's arrived with chin turrets, they tried head-on and zooming up (per G. Rall). They offered a small target coming in and were hard to track up close. I suspect a 20 mm must have done serious damage when it passed down the length of the fuselage.

Preferred angle for U.S. seems to have been a high-side attack, diving from 4 or 8 o'clock. With the AI gunners in FB, that's pretty risky.

Winning isn't everything;
It's the only thing!
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BM357_Raven
12-26-2003, 04:53 PM
Well, I use head-ons very rarely anymore. As a result, I am not as good at them as I used to be back in cfs.

Even though I got the 50 cals with me in the P-51, I just dont like head-on's against other fighters and only use it when I feel trapped and that manuevering is futile, now...Kinda like a wild animal that's been trapped and has no alternative than to charge...I dont like them though.

A useful, but perhaps hard to achieve, tip is to stay steady on the stick and be as trimmed as possible. This is hard as everything happens so quickly in a headon (it's a usually a 600-700 mph plane moving at you--if you are both moving 300mph+). If you find you are using a lot of opposing pressure or adjustment to the controls, you are gonna be less accurate at the moment you open fire (this is essentially true anytime you pull the trigger though).

Pure head-ons, esp are bad news in my book. Better for me, usually is to be a little off center, come in from an angle to keep the other guy guessing and sweating where his nose needs to be for the engagement.. If I had the choice of being slightly above or slightly below in a head-on with a fighter, however, I'd pick slightly below, because pulling up is is more fluid and where the plane wants to go usually, requiring less elevator pressure, but that's a matter of preference. Of course, from above you have a better chance of scoring a shot into the cockpit...

But I agree with the 'Russian Roulette' thing, and that they should usually be avoided.. That being said, if you perfect it, you will be the guy everyone knows to evade in a head-on, at all costs... gl!

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p1ngu666
12-26-2003, 07:50 PM
its a good tatic against ai 262 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
flame the engine easily
i got lots in a p51 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
my top windscreen took a 108 round and i lived :O
i like head ons, atleast online, ai wont miss if there good :\

1.JaVA_Razer
12-27-2003, 06:55 AM
Thanks for nice reply's http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

F19_Orheim
12-27-2003, 07:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TX-Zen:

Orheim:
I would suggest your post to read "...unless you are in a focke wulf, then go for the head to head every chance you get." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
S~!

TX-Zen
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LMAO, of course, the blind bats, didn't consider those http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.gbg.bonet.se/bjorta/F19banner.jpg

VW-IceFire
12-27-2003, 08:07 AM
I go head to head if I've got the superior firepower and superior damage absorption. Since its very hard to land precision shots and then damage a well armored plane (FW, P47, etc.) and with the spread of the .50 cals or the sheer power of 4 20mm cannons then I go head to head. Bf 109's, Yaks, and La's tend to be crippled from such passes. But good pilots are much more dangerous.

In terms of placing lead on target its alot of guessing and some luck. Try and figure out which way they are headed, place your gunsight ahead of that and open fire at almost double the usual range for rear attacks...seems to work sometimes. I much prefer 7:00/5:00 attacks.

- IceFire
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/spit-sig.jpg

Jaws2002
12-27-2003, 09:57 AM
HO is the best way to take down B17's.I like to come in at high speed, aim for the cockpit and open fire at close range. Takes a lot of practice to avoid the collision, but is satisfying to see the bomber spin out of control with the cockpit blown to pieces. If you have to deal with formation of B-17's is a different story. You have only one clean HO pass.After first pass I usually go vertical and try to position myself more then 1000m above the bombers. When I'm exactly on top of the target i pick,I roll inverted and go straight down. At this point I roll 90 degree to the left and let the bomber come in to the crosshair from the right side window. This way i can make the last moment corrections and when i open up ( with all the toys the FW-190 has from around 200m),you can see big pieces coming off the bomber. This way you are a small fast target, very hard to track by the gunners and have a good chance to get away untouched.