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Samuel5093
03-11-2004, 10:27 AM
I'm playing with no icons and I find it f*cking hard to track down the enemy fighters, let alone shoot them down. I always mix up friendly's whit foes, can't tell them appart! Does anyone have some tips that could help me??

Samuel5093
03-11-2004, 10:27 AM
I'm playing with no icons and I find it f*cking hard to track down the enemy fighters, let alone shoot them down. I always mix up friendly's whit foes, can't tell them appart! Does anyone have some tips that could help me??

carguy_
03-11-2004, 10:30 AM
First off I want to congratulate you for using noicons.

The only way efficent is to learn silhouettes of the planes.It will take you some time but you`ll be a natural.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

RossC0
03-11-2004, 10:30 AM
If they shoot at you - then thems Bandits!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Chuck_Older
03-11-2004, 10:31 AM
Color of tracers in gunfire, use your gunsight view to zoom in a bit, and really get to know target shapes. I am currently having trouble telling a P-51 B or C from a Bf-109, from the front quarter. The tail gives it away, though.

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DamienW
03-11-2004, 10:35 AM
As Chuck_Older, i find the best way for long-range identification is to wait until someone fires , and see what his tracers look like. If they're friendly, their target is foe, and so on. First rely on this method, and then, as you get usedto it, you'll naturally recognize the shapes of the planes and won't need the tracers any more (at close range).

Isatheprophet
03-11-2004, 10:38 AM
rubbish track eye bandits always use this excuse. U have to get up his back side to get an id on him, in real life that is not the case, sound and sight were more prounced and one could see for a least 1 mile mmm for an id plane here u have to be pratically on his six. Is no icons reall not a chance. Only people with big monitors and track eye push it. Also lighting plays a big part, what if you have a slow machine, not good seeing distance, what if the other has perfect settings on, sees greater distance, trade off is there, so to even it up icons should be set either to ur side to give people a reference, and then set a mimaal distance say one mile again, the people will know the planes with no icons on are the enemy, it makes the game fun and at the same time u are learning to recognise plane shapes from a distance with you being up his backside

Taylortony
03-11-2004, 11:40 AM
If they start to transfer small metallic projectiles over to you, that tends to be a good indication http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TooCooL34
03-11-2004, 11:49 AM
Make plastic models of your enemies.
It costs a lot thou. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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konstantinl1
03-11-2004, 11:51 AM
I think it is very difficult to positively ID most single engine aircraft in a furball from more than say 400 or 500 yards.

The tracer tip is a good one. Also the basic camouflage of the aircraft can be a good aid. Often you can see if a aircraft is green or grey before you can identify the type.

Basically, you should be getting right up close to a target anyway before you open fire so you shouldn't score to many own goals.

ELEM
03-11-2004, 12:11 PM
F6

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

Gershy
03-11-2004, 12:18 PM
The radiators are quite nice for identification as well. Especially the 109s are easy to recognize because of their rad.

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LilHorse
03-11-2004, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Isatheprophet:
rubbish track eye bandits always use this excuse. U have to get up his back side to get an id on him, in real life that is not the case, sound and sight were more prounced and one could see for a least 1 mile mmm for an id plane here u have to be pratically on his six. Is no icons reall not a chance. Only people with big monitors and track eye push it. Also lighting plays a big part, what if you have a slow machine, not good seeing distance, what if the other has perfect settings on, sees greater distance, trade off is there, so to even it up icons should be set either to ur side to give people a reference, and then set a mimaal distance say one mile again, the people will know the planes with no icons on are the enemy, it makes the game fun and at the same time u are learning to recognise plane shapes from a distance with you being up his backside<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only thing that is "rubbish" is that post. I don't have TIR. I don't have a great big monitor. I don't run on perfect settings (my rig couldn't handle it). And my graphics card is so antiquated by today's standards you guys would laugh. And I have no trouble IDing planes in the game without icons. Not only do you get used to recognizing the actual shapes of the planes, you also figure out how to tell the differences when they haven't resolved themselves fully in their more "blocky" pixel form.

One of the first things you should notice is that the LW a/c tend to show up bigger or darker at a distance. Even if you see a VVS plane chasing a LW plane from behind the VVS plane, at certain distances the LW plane still shows up bigger. LW planes also tend to show up as looking more like crosses at a distance and VVS planes start out looking like a "T" shape till you close the gap. Then even before it has fully resolved you can pretty much make out what model it is. But even if you can't quite make out at that point if it's a Yak-1 or a LaGG you know it's VVS.

Just keep practicing. You'll get the hang of it.

LilHorse
03-11-2004, 12:26 PM
Oh yeah. I should also add that using the zoom in through the gunsight helps a great deal as does the color of the tracer fire.

Bearcat99
03-11-2004, 12:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Samuel5093:
I'm playing with no icons and I find it f*cking hard to track down the enemy fighters, let alone shoot them down. I always mix up friendly's whit foes, can't tell them appart! Does anyone have some tips that could help me??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What Chuck said..and keep on flying with no icons. The P-51-109 thing was a factor in real life too. There were stories of P-51 pilots whose planes were shot up by P-47 drivers who mistook them for 109s so dont feel so bad.

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xenios
03-11-2004, 01:12 PM
Identifying planes does become instinctual after a while, and hardware is not really the problem. I can do it on my crappy laptop as well as on my 19" monitor. If you have real life vision limitations, then icons on may be the only option. When I used to run coops, I would turn it on for somebody who had poor vision. It's not necessarily a deal breaker for me.

One of the main reasons some of us prefer no icons is this: Ever tried to sneak up on somebody with a giant glowing billboard suspended over your head? Yeah, you can't. Yes, in real life you can see farther than you can in this sim, but to me the loss of stealth with icons on is more significant.

CRSutton
03-11-2004, 04:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LilHorse:
Oh yeah. I should also add that using the zoom in through the gunsight helps a great deal as does the color of the tracer fire.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but doesnt using zoom view sort of defeat the reason for using no icons? I don't think real pilots had zoom view any more than they had icons. Just playing devils advocate here. I always use icons. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BM357_Raven
03-11-2004, 05:11 PM
Part of it is really practice. Someone can describe something to you, but it doesnt't really sink in until you get used to it. Does take a while.

Best thing is to force yourself to try to recognize ahead of time.. You see an object and you say to yourself "I think it's a 109" and when you get on top of it you see if you are right or not. Eventually, you'll know you have gotten better because you'll be right more often than not.

LilHorse, is onto something, I'd have to think about it more in terms of "T's" and "crosses," but, nonetheless, there is something that is unique to the 109 that makes it much easier for me to recognize.

Mind you, I now fly 51's and 109's and these two types are easily confused, but I can usually separate them before I am within firing range.

109's tend to look a little more squarish and the tail is more is more cross-like and pronounced.

The engine though kinda round is also a little more blocky than the P-51.. as I think about it..

P-38's are huge, 110's are huge and both are easy to distinguish from each other at great ranges.

P-47's can sometimes throw you off for a second or two, but they are fat and their wings kinda reach forward.

190's just seem to look like 190's to me.. Not sure how to describe those..

The gunfire is your immediate give-away, and once you see gunfire that's blue, pay attention to where that plane is heading. Blue=LW and Red=Allies.

Also, it is important to be able to zoom in when you are uncertain. I zoom in when the battle's not too rough..

Use everything a good FS map maker gives you. Sirens and AAA convey so much advanced warning that it is funny how important they are for planes coming to and from the base.

Can I just put it like this: growing pains and stick time!

GL!

(if I think about more, I will post again)

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BM357_Raven
03-11-2004, 05:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Yes, but doesnt using zoom view sort of defeat the reason for using no icons? I don't think real pilots had zoom view any more than they had icons. Just playing devils advocate here. I always use icons.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know this is one of the most important points you can make. I thought about this a lot and questioned myself about it. One thing is that if you try to zoom in on a really distant object it actually becomes harder to see. The other fact is that sometimes in order to see something, I find I have to kinda lean forward and concentrate on it for a minute. This is what I feel the zoom feature does for me at close range. Someone could argue this point and I would have to think about it harder.. To me it's a little like leaning all the way forward in your cockpit and squinting.

Is it though? Not sure... there's a whole other argument.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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SeaFireLIV
03-11-2004, 05:17 PM
Had I seen this post earlier I would`ve given my advice. I don`t use icons and love it! (Yes FUN can be had by it and a sense of achievement).

But Raven, LilHorse, Bearcat99 and others have said it all really. I don`t use TIR either.

SeaFireLIV...

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GvSAP_Dart
03-11-2004, 05:23 PM
Repeat after me:

Nose is yellow, kill the fellow! (109)
Boxes under wing, make your guns sing! (109)
Nose is flat, give it a smack! (190)
Yellow band, the fight's at hand!

Wing is round, safe and sound!
Cockpit is open? Don't dare smoke him!

After a bit it'll become second nature, btw. The other day I was flying in a DF server and a squaddie was amazed that I could call aircraft by model in the mid-distance LOD (I was in cockpit, he was watching externally).

Lots of that also has to do with how aircraft move in the air - I can spot a 190 when it's a gray dot owing to the speed, which is faster than the VVS planes in the 1943 set.

The "OKL planes are larger than VVS ones" is crap, btw. Lots of when planes "pop" to be recognizable is color and shape. Plus, size does matter. Park a Yak next to a 190 and tell me which one you think you'd be able to see first...

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SeaFireLIV
03-11-2004, 05:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GvSAP_Dart:
Repeat after me:

Nose is yellow, kill the fellow! (109)
Boxes under wing, make your guns sing! (109)
Nose is flat, give it a smack! (190)
Yellow band, the fight's at hand!

Wing is round, safe and sound!
Cockpit is open? Don't dare smoke him!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey dart, that`s good! I`m gonna memorise that. I don`t really need it now, but it`s just good to know. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

SeaFireLIV...

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Soon... Very soon....

pinche_bolillo
03-11-2004, 06:31 PM
I play under all and any settings. I also have a very low end computer and no matter how great of a graphics card I may run my mb bus speed is still only 2x.

I do not have a large fancy monitor, no track ir, no fancy joystick, its a twisty stick for the rudder. it has a hat and 8, yes 8 buttons. so I have to use the key board a lot. if I want to look around I have to pan w/ my thumb.

I cannot tell if the a/c is friendly or not until I am with in 300 meters, yes that is .3

I see I am not unique in watching for gun fire. this is how I usually identify a/c

not only are the colors different so are the patterns of tracers. also where the a/c light up from muzzle flashes and how bright the flashes are helps greatly.

one thing that bugs me is I can stalk a guy down from low and behind. for many minutes I am on his six, but he flys straight and level. as soon as I am with in 300 meters he pulls a violent evasive maneouver. now from my position there was no way he could have seen me. my p/c does not have some fancy sound card so I dont know if its the sound giving me away or what. other people that fly full real tell me that they can hear a/c approaching them and thats how they know to check six.

Chuck_Older
03-11-2004, 06:40 PM
My 361st P-51s all have yellow cowlings...some almost to the windscreen. Historically, too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


If the nose is yellow, act kind of mellow.
Get a good look before you grease that fellow.
He might be a Hun, with his days at an end,
but don't shoot down a bomber's lil' friend.
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*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

LEXX_Luthor
03-11-2004, 06:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>but doesnt using zoom view sort of defeat the reason for using no icons? I don't think real pilots had zoom view any more than they had icons.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>In the FB the full zoom in view close models real life size that we see. We only view the world through a small monitor in front of us.

The zoom out view models the wider view we also have in real life. Because we use computer monitors and they are not up to modding humanoid vision in one setting, so we must switch between the two zoom views.

Such is the Power of the human vision that we can in real life see wide angle yet focus on small detail at the center of our vision. Think of zoom in view as focusing your attention on what is right in front of your eyes...and a corresponding risk of not focusing attention on the wider picture around you.

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FourShades
03-11-2004, 07:17 PM
Aircraft with rounded wing profiles (viewed from above or below) are most likely Allies (La, Mig, Yak, P-39). LW planes often have squarish profiles.

When dead level on at six position, some Allied aircraft have wings that are perfectly linear (I-16, Hurri), whereas the common LW types (109, 190) angle slightly upwards. 109 radiators (blocks under wings near wing roots)are also dead give-aways.

The point is that you should never shoot until you are in range to identify your target. If you are close but still cannot identify, then you just don't know your enemies well enough. That is what is great about this Sim, it teaches you a whole range of things. Aircraft recognition is a prime skill for a wartime aviator.

Have fun!
IV/JG7_4Shades

Waldo.Pepper
03-11-2004, 10:21 PM
Here its easy really


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