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View Full Version : Oleg, did you know that 40% of instruments don't work?



chris455
03-21-2004, 03:04 PM
...........on the P-47?
Behold:

1.Suction gauge doesn't work.

2.Water pressure gauge doesn't work.

3.The "real" Oil Temp gauge (part of the
instrument cluster with Oil and Fuel pressure gauges) doesn't work.

4.The gauge marked "Oil Temperature" should actually be Cylinder Head temperature. Even so, it too doesn't work.

5.Turbine speed gauge doesn't work.

6.Turbine overspeed light is missing altogether.
(this indicator was critical to avoid overheating the Turbocharger)

7.The altimeter is lacking a "10's" indicator; the gauge is much reduced in usefullness without it.

8.Ammeter doesn't work.

9.The carburettor air temperature gauge (extreme upper right panel) doesn't work. (Since we can no longer control the mixture, well............ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif)

10. The cowl flap control would be (should be?) a simple animation to implement, showing it pushed in and puled out. As it is now, in FR we have to look at the cowl flaps themselves.
(fortunately on the P-47 you can see them!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif)

Oleg I know, (and accept) the fact that it is probably too late for a major artisitic re-work of the P-47 pit. But could at least some of these instrumentation faults be looked at?

It affects serious flying in full real to say the least. I can understand 2 or 3 intruments on a panel with 20 odd gauges not working, but 40% of the gauges on a panel as well documented as the Jugs, and for which there must be tons of data, is quite noticeable.

Lots of arcade flyers will say "so what" , but I guess I've become spoiled by the attention to detail this sim is known for. Besides, wasn't one of the big advances in FB supposed to be Complex Engine Management? How does one manage ones powerplant with 40% of your instruments inoperative? In RL, the ship would not be allowed to taxi back to the hanger, let alone fly. I hope Oleg responds in some way to this problem. And I apologize for taking up other peoples valuable time, but if you love the Thunderbolt as much as I do, well, you'll know why I posted this. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

AND before I forget, THANK YOU OLEG for the greatest sim ever that just keeps getting better!

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

[This message was edited by chris455 on Sun March 21 2004 at 02:24 PM.]

[This message was edited by chris455 on Sun March 21 2004 at 10:58 PM.]

chris455
03-21-2004, 03:04 PM
...........on the P-47?
Behold:

1.Suction gauge doesn't work.

2.Water pressure gauge doesn't work.

3.The "real" Oil Temp gauge (part of the
instrument cluster with Oil and Fuel pressure gauges) doesn't work.

4.The gauge marked "Oil Temperature" should actually be Cylinder Head temperature. Even so, it too doesn't work.

5.Turbine speed gauge doesn't work.

6.Turbine overspeed light is missing altogether.
(this indicator was critical to avoid overheating the Turbocharger)

7.The altimeter is lacking a "10's" indicator; the gauge is much reduced in usefullness without it.

8.Ammeter doesn't work.

9.The carburettor air temperature gauge (extreme upper right panel) doesn't work. (Since we can no longer control the mixture, well............ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif)

10. The cowl flap control would be (should be?) a simple animation to implement, showing it pushed in and puled out. As it is now, in FR we have to look at the cowl flaps themselves.
(fortunately on the P-47 you can see them!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif)

Oleg I know, (and accept) the fact that it is probably too late for a major artisitic re-work of the P-47 pit. But could at least some of these instrumentation faults be looked at?

It affects serious flying in full real to say the least. I can understand 2 or 3 intruments on a panel with 20 odd gauges not working, but 40% of the gauges on a panel as well documented as the Jugs, and for which there must be tons of data, is quite noticeable.

Lots of arcade flyers will say "so what" , but I guess I've become spoiled by the attention to detail this sim is known for. Besides, wasn't one of the big advances in FB supposed to be Complex Engine Management? How does one manage ones powerplant with 40% of your instruments inoperative? In RL, the ship would not be allowed to taxi back to the hanger, let alone fly. I hope Oleg responds in some way to this problem. And I apologize for taking up other peoples valuable time, but if you love the Thunderbolt as much as I do, well, you'll know why I posted this. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

AND before I forget, THANK YOU OLEG for the greatest sim ever that just keeps getting better!

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

[This message was edited by chris455 on Sun March 21 2004 at 02:24 PM.]

[This message was edited by chris455 on Sun March 21 2004 at 10:58 PM.]

03-21-2004, 04:31 PM
I can live without working gauges. Not a problem.

So what if the MP gauges don't read properly on most planes!? The needles still move in a believable fashion. Just ignore the numbers and watch the movement.

We need to make HUGE advances in CEM before all those extra gauges become necessary. As things are now CEM is "good enough". Save it for the next sim, that's my feeling http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

FAB_Devil
03-21-2004, 05:38 PM
Good question chris455!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://fabdevil.hpg.com.br/FAB/FAB_Devil_Signature.jpg

chris455
03-21-2004, 06:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cosmokart:
I can live without working gauges. Not a problem.

So what if the MP gauges don't read properly on most planes!? The needles still move in a believable fashion. Just ignore the numbers and watch the movement.

We need to make HUGE advances in CEM before all those extra gauges become necessary. As things are now CEM is "good enough". Save it for the next sim, that's my feeling http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cylinder head temp and coolant temp are "extra" gauges, huh?
"Ignore the numbers and watch the movement". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Maybe he should have read the part of my post that describes people most likely to say "so what?".

S!

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

[This message was edited by chris455 on Sun March 21 2004 at 05:17 PM.]

crazyivan1970
03-21-2004, 06:40 PM
Good question.

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Fennec_P
03-21-2004, 08:46 PM
I just wish that the main instruments, like altimeter, compass and airspeed indicator would show correct values (and be visible) on all planes.

For no other reason than to finally get rid of the speedbar.

Without being able to see correct altitude (P-47) or know correct heading (Spit) you have to leave it on.

Bearcat99
03-21-2004, 09:05 PM
This post is a textbook example of how to present a beef with anything in FB to it's developer....no rants and raves.... just the facts ma'am.......and BTW I agree.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
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chris455
03-21-2004, 09:17 PM
Thanks Bear, http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

03-21-2004, 09:42 PM
chris455, i didn't mean to steal your fire. It would be great if all the gages worked properly.

The problem is, the current "complex" engine modelling is limited and gages like CHT, suction, EGT, (or even a MP gage that read correctly) are not much more than eye candy until the physics engine underneath catches up.

Although it may be upsetting to some "full real" diehards, the complex settings in this sim really aren't that complex. The tradeoff is that the sim is VERY forgiving of engine abuse.

I still go through the motions of closing my radiators on long descents, clearing my plugs, and all that stuff. It's cool enough, IMHO, that RPMs drop when you disable 1 set of mags.

chris455
03-21-2004, 10:11 PM
I appreciate the work you're doing on the .50 cal dispersion Cosmo.
Maybe as a group we can make some positive changes.
I for one do NOT beleive that Oleg has an agenda against US planes, but I do think there is......shall we say..........a knowledge "vacuum" at 1C about US aircraft. Or at least it so seems.
S!

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

AcesHigh_AVG
03-21-2004, 10:23 PM
I would like it if at least the oil pressure and fuel flow guages worked! The suction guage works on the P38!

03-21-2004, 11:24 PM
Hehe, yeah... oil pressure too! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

I noticed that the first time I flew the Bf 110 but somehow forgot to mention it here.

The oil pressure comes up when you start the engine, and process to do absolutely nothing. Why on earth did they bother to model those gages on the nacelles (really nice job, BTW), only to make those same fabulous gages totally nonfunctional?

Oil pressure shouldn't be too hard to get right. It's high when you start, it comes down once the engine is warm, and it drops a whole bunch if you run OUT! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Eagle_361st
03-21-2004, 11:26 PM
I am with you Chris and always will be. The Jug gauges really need to be looked at.

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
www.361stvfg.com (http://www.361stvfg.com)
http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1003.jpg

chris455
03-21-2004, 11:45 PM
Thanks Eagle. Maybe this will get noticed by Oleg.

@ CosmoKart: Funny you should mention Oil Pressure, I forgot to mention, on the Jug the oil pressure drops when your engine overheats!
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif
S!

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

03-22-2004, 02:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>@ CosmoKart: Funny you should mention Oil Pressure, I forgot to mention, on the Jug the oil pressure drops when your engine overheats! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But that is correct! Hot oil is less viscous.

Oil pressure is highest on a cold engine. Oil pressure drops as the engine warms to operating temperature.

chris455
03-22-2004, 06:49 AM
No, I mean that the oil pressure gauge suddenly plummets when the engine overheats, as though you had taken a hit in the reservoir-

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

chris455
03-22-2004, 08:46 PM
A shameless bump. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

E_Temperament
03-22-2004, 09:30 PM
The cockpit clocks seem to keep very good time with the TOD setting, a very nice touch. However the fuel gauge empties regardless if the engine is running or not. So it seems the fuel just leaks from the tanks over the passage of time rather than from engine fuel consumtion.ie after selecting an aircraft instead of starting the engine/s just let the plane sit for a few hours then come back and check the fuel gauge. Something has syphoned off the fuel, a thieving AI who needed it more than you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

03-22-2004, 09:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
No, I mean that the oil pressure gauge suddenly plummets when the engine overheats, as though you had taken a hit in the reservoir-

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhh... gotcha.

lrrp22
03-22-2004, 11:05 PM
'...a knowledge "vacuum"'

Nicely put Chris. There is something slightly Cold War-esque about 1C's approach to US aircraft. Definitely not an agenda, but still, a kind of 'assume the worst' approach best exemplified by the whole 'advertising data' thing.

it's frustrating considering that most of the 'advertising data' is quite conservative relative to operational configurations.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
I appreciate the work you're doing on the .50 cal dispersion Cosmo.
Maybe as a group we can make some positive changes.
I for one do NOT beleive that Oleg has an agenda against US planes, but I do think there is......shall we say..........a knowledge "vacuum" at 1C about US aircraft. Or at least it so seems.
S!

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

chris455
03-22-2004, 11:15 PM
It's an interesting perspective you put on that,
lrrp22.
As an American, I have not often been subjected to the kind of biases that unfortunately, many of us have about things foreign.

It's funny in a way to find oneself (possibly) on the receiving end of such things. I know that before I purchased IL2 (and started playing it like a fiend) I knew almost NOTHING about Soviet aircraft, (except that they weren't as good as ours http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif &lt;&lt;kidding!&gt;&gthttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


I believe Oleg is a good man and a shrewd marketeer. I think if it makes sense, he'll make it right.
S!

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

lrrp22
03-23-2004, 12:41 PM
Hi Chris,

You're right: the shoe is on the other foot and I don't like it! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Having said that, I don't think that Oleg is ever going to model American hardware at anything but conservative levels, and only begrudgingly so even then.

Before AEP was released I predicted that the P-51B/C would be modeled with the V-1650-7's performance above 25K ft and the -3's at lower levels (all at 67" WEP) and I think that is exactly what we got.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
It's an interesting perspective you put on that,
lrrp22.
As an American, I have not often been subjected to the kind of biases that unfortunately, many of us have about things foreign.

It's funny in a way to find oneself (possibly) on the receiving end of such things. I know that before I purchased IL2 (and started playing it like a fiend) I knew almost NOTHING about Soviet aircraft, (except that they weren't as good as ours http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif &lt;&lt;kidding!&gt;&gthttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


I believe Oleg is a good man and a shrewd marketeer. I think if it makes sense, he'll make it right.
S!

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

chris455
03-23-2004, 12:50 PM
But the Pony is still a nice ride, no?
I don't fly it much (it's so slick and fast I almost feel like I'm cheating) but the 20NA seems to be a real sweetheart-
S!

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

lrrp22
03-23-2004, 02:04 PM
It *is* a great ride, even at *only* http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif 67" WEP manifold pressure. It's probably as accuratley modeled as any in the game- for that power setting.

My complaint is that the Mustang's conservative flight modeling coupled with the *very* optimistic modeling of many other late-war a/c doesn't accurately reflect the P-51's abilities relative to those other L-W fighters, especially in speed at lower altitudes. Also, like all other energy fighters in FB, the P-51 isn't able to fully exploit some of its traditional advantages due to FB's somewhat odd energy model, *especially* with the new 'exploding in dive' feature/bug.

Some in-game performance numbers don't even reach the conservative figures. For example, the Object Viewer states that the in-game P-51C is equipped with the V-1650-7, yet its sea level speed is listed as 560 kph. The P-51D, with the same engine, is listed as 578. In reality a -7 equipped B/C should be 2-4 kph *faster* than the D at all altitudes, not 18 kph slower. I won't even get into the fact that both are substantially slower than most operational examples.

But, yes, overrall the Mustang is a great ride, as it should be. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
But the Pony is still a nice ride, no?
I don't fly it much (it's so slick and fast I almost feel like I'm cheating) but the 20NA seems to be a real sweetheart-
S!

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

buz13
03-23-2004, 05:09 PM
"We don't need no stinking gauges"....besides I'd hate to know just how poorly I'm flying and what damage I'm doing to my engine.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

chris455
03-29-2004, 11:31 AM
again bump

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

PzKpfw
03-29-2004, 04:12 PM
Ya would be great if the Thunderbucket's gauges worked http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Regards, John Waters

---------
Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.

------
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Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

LEXX_Luthor
03-29-2004, 04:20 PM
I don't know if anybody ever tested P~51 range in the sim, but if Oleg modded P~51 range correctly then Oleg made P~51 the *best* fighter in the game.

Too bad Oleg's internet dogfighter maps are only ~50km wide. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif



__________________
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:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif