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Curly_109
05-24-2004, 02:41 PM

Curly_109
05-24-2004, 02:41 PM

Vortex_uk
05-24-2004, 03:01 PM
AI vs AI...because if its anything else E.g Human vs Human,each person gonna have more skill than the other,same with Human vs AI,AI is gonna get trashed basicly. but with AI vs AI,set their skill to be the same and its fairly even

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VW-IceFire
05-24-2004, 06:12 PM
Quite obviously its going to be human VS human.

Humans have the best possibility of using the FM of the aircraft to the very edge (and beyond) and will fly more agressively, shoot smarter, and fly harder than the AI which relies on a short set of routines to generate its behavior and uses a simplified FM model based on the parent aircrafts performance abilities (which it will break on occasion to necessitate its survival).

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Curly_109
05-25-2004, 07:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Quite obviously its going to be human VS human.

Humans have the best possibility of using the FM of the aircraft to the very edge (and beyond) and will fly more agressively, shoot smarter, and fly harder than the AI which relies on a short set of routines to generate its behavior and uses a simplified FM model based on the parent aircrafts performance abilities (which it will break on occasion to necessitate its survival).

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but how to find 2 equal skilled flyers? My vote is AI vs. AI, in spite of their obvious different behaviour(routines, scripts whatever). I find it to be the lesser evil of all above http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BuzZz_WG
05-25-2004, 07:37 AM
Since the AI uses different FM's than human pilots, I vote for human vs human. At least it will be realistically online (but AI will have an advantage offline).

BREAK! BREAK!
Nevermind...

tsisqua
05-25-2004, 08:06 AM
Anyone ever fly a plane online that was meant to be ai? no pit included? If you have, then you know that the FM for the ai planes is NOTHING like the finished (Are they ever really finished?) FM's after a plane has a pit.

Therefore, I must say human vs human. Although, I think that most of the real important testing can be done with a single plane, and no opponent, (i.e. climb rate, stall speed, roll rate, etc . . . )

Tsisqua

mortoma
05-25-2004, 08:54 AM
How can human vs. human be a good test?? How can you get two humans to fight together that have the exact ( and I do mean exact ) flying and shooting capabilites??? There is so much variation in levels of skill between different people that it's amazing.

Slush69
05-25-2004, 09:04 AM
If you test AI vs. AI you test the AI FM.
If you test human vs. human you test the FM players experience.

Simple as that. The two FM's are different, so the question is moot.

cheers/slush

http://www.wilcks.dk/lort/Eurotrolls.gif

Curly_109
05-25-2004, 09:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slush69:
If you test AI vs. AI you test the AI FM.
If you test human vs. human you test the FM players experience.

Simple as that. The two FM's are different, so the question is moot.

cheers/slush

http://www.wilcks.dk/lort/Eurotrolls.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right. But as far as human vs. human combat testing is concerned, even if u find two exactly the same skilled players(!), they also must have equal powered machines (trackIR, good video card etc.).

I'll tell you for sure, playing ONLINE proves NOTHING regarding this matter... I'm certain of that. And I'm interested to see what your experiences are of this.
However, if we have human v. human online battle only with the purpose of testing aircraft(same conditions & experienced players), that'll be another story... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

CO_Eagle_31stFG
05-25-2004, 10:19 AM
Curly if you dont like the answers your getting then why bring up this topic ? Your pool clearly is leaning towards human vs human.
You asked the peoples opinion and they gave it to you.
You dont need 2 exact skilled pilots in order to test an aircrafts capabilities, no 2 test pilots in real life are equal either, test pilots relay via communications how a plane is responding. Human vs human allows you to do this. any other option will only allow you to view from outside which will not tell you exactly how many hits were taken nor will it tell you what malfunctions are happenning inside the aircraft.
The only way your going to be knowledgable of whats going on is to be in communication with someone you trust, and collect your data during your tests. Also be sure to switch planes and retest.

Curly_109
05-25-2004, 11:18 AM
CO_Eagle_31stFG;

Why should I'd have to like some answers or not http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif....

Simply I state my opinion on this matter, and have no intention to argue over it... but I admit however that my post above sounds a little bit harsh.

Also, this game has nothing to do with real life... no matter how it's good it's only a game.

Your 2 last sentences are fully true and that's the best way to go, in my opinion. But of course, not all of us have these conditions, yet we're harshly arguing... then if that's not possible then I stay with my previous opinion.

tttiger
05-25-2004, 12:22 PM
Errr...what kind of "testing" are you talking about?

Climb? Roll? Speed? Turn rate?

The word "combat" keeps appearing in your poll selection. Other than counting kills and deaths, how do you "test" aircraft in combat?

I can't think of any real "tests" where you need two aircraft flying at the same time.

To "test" a variety of planes, you fly the first one. Use it as a benchmark, and see if the others are faster, climb better, etc. by doing exactly the same test with each of them.

Obviously, you don't use AI planes for those, the FM is different, no complex engine management, they don't overheat, etc., etc., etc. But the human pilot has to be very careful to conduct the tests the same way each time. Assuming the same human pilot conducts all the test flights, skill level is not an issue.

(I suppose you could compare planes of the same type flown by humans and AI, but even tests like that would require individual test flights, not "combat")

What this sim needs are some agreed-on testing protocols, not silly threads like this.

I don't see the point to your question. Frankly, I don't think you know what testing is.

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

[This message was edited by tttiger on Tue May 25 2004 at 11:36 AM.]

JtD
05-25-2004, 01:29 PM
My prefferred testing method is human vs. watch.