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View Full Version : G2 in comparison to other 109's



Mike8686
07-12-2004, 07:57 PM
Why is it that all 109's after the G2 seem so damn HEAVY? How are yo u suppose to dogfight in thos things? I have lotsa trouble flying aircraft such as the G10 and K4, while on the G2 I feel like I can reall climb/turn and regain energy quickly as well as retain it pretty well, its just so nimble. How am I suppose to fly the heavier 109s? Expecially at high speeds (Nastily sluggish controls)

Mike8686
07-12-2004, 07:57 PM
Why is it that all 109's after the G2 seem so damn HEAVY? How are yo u suppose to dogfight in thos things? I have lotsa trouble flying aircraft such as the G10 and K4, while on the G2 I feel like I can reall climb/turn and regain energy quickly as well as retain it pretty well, its just so nimble. How am I suppose to fly the heavier 109s? Expecially at high speeds (Nastily sluggish controls)

Flying_Merkava
07-12-2004, 08:58 PM
Wait for your noob instincts to fade.

Mike8686
07-12-2004, 09:04 PM
lol, the universal piece of advice http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif, I totally agree too (really), but I'm looking for some more detailed advice than that.

pcisbest
07-12-2004, 09:44 PM
Actually, many real-life Luftwaffe pilots said the same thing at first. When moving from the more nimble Fs and early Gs, the heavier G-6 and onward seemed less responsive.

The thing to remember is that the F2/4 in the game and even the G-2 can be used more as turn fighers, especially when fighting aircraft from their respective period in the war, although the Spitfire can turn inside it as can the Russian I-153 and I-16. The heavier G-6 and later are much more effectively employed as energy fighers, where they enjoy very good rates of climb and dive, even compared to some of the later Allied fighters. So, the best tactic, as in real life, is to maintain alititude over your enemy, then pounce and use your residule energy from the dive to climb up to higher altitude. At higher altitudes, i.e. over 5-6,000 meters, the 109 can actually turn fairly well with many Allied fighters, but boom and zoom tactics are still the preferred.

BennyMoore
07-12-2004, 09:56 PM
The G-2's "my" plane, although not a favorite of mine in real life. It's the only BF-109 I like to fly. However, if it's a late war plane set, I take the K-4 and try to zoom and boom. Still, I don't have much success because of the compression (it flies very similarly to the P-38, but the BF-109 K-4 is faster and much more manueverable than the P-38).

JZG-Pedro
07-13-2004, 12:21 AM
actually, right now in the game, the 109 G6 can turn inside a spitfire mk IX if u r at low - medium altitude and at stall speed

and it shouldnt be much different than the G2, sicne the only difference are the MG 131s in place of the MG 17s, but I must say I feel the G2 is turning a little too well in FB

alarmer
07-13-2004, 12:33 AM
Compared to F2 & F4 I too think G2 turns too well. But throw in the concrete elevators which effectively reduce the B&Z capatibilities and we have freak plane.

Turns better than it should but performs B&Z worse than it should.

jurinko
07-13-2004, 01:14 AM
G2 and G6 should be closer to itself in performance.. maybe somewhere between existing FMs. G-6 is unexplainably much heavier (cca 300kg) than G-2 in the game.

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Letka_13/Liptow @ HL

pcisbest
07-13-2004, 03:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JZG-Pedro:
actually, right now in the game, the 109 G6 can turn inside a spitfire mk IX if u r at low - medium altitude and at stall speed

and it shouldnt be much different than the G2, sicne the only difference are the MG 131s in place of the MG 17s, but I must say I feel the G2 is turning a little too well in FB<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had somone do this to me in a 109G when I was using a Spit. Yes, if you go to stall speed and use combat flaps, you can turn inside many aircraft with later 109s, but this has more to do with technique it seems then the actual performance of the aircraft. In other words, people entering turns at too high of speeds and what not can forget turning inside with the 109G at lower altitudes, they can only pull this off by keeping near the stall speed, and if the enemy is doing the same, many times you can throw a 109 off and turn inside it.

WUAF_Badsight
07-13-2004, 05:59 AM
the F4 was regarded IRL as bieng the most deadly Knife-fighting Bf109

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Atomic_Marten
07-13-2004, 06:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
the F4 was regarded IRL as bieng the most deadly Knife-fighting Bf109

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
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Indeed... the best Bf109 dogfighter is this variant (F4) it have the best turn. For climbing and energy, late ones of course. But for real deal with loops&BnZ Fw190D.

F19_Ob
07-13-2004, 08:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike8686:
Why is it that all 109's after the G2 seem so damn HEAVY? How are yo u suppose to dogfight in thos things? I have lotsa trouble flying aircraft such as the G10 and K4, while on the G2 I feel like I can reall climb/turn and regain energy quickly as well as retain it pretty well, its just so nimble. How am I suppose to fly the heavier 109s? Expecially at high speeds (Nastily sluggish controls)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Many like the G2 but F4 have same armament and the better view to the rear and also keeps the energy well.

The early G6 is a lot heavier than G2 and same horrible view rearward and only marginally faster than the G2, wich in the game makes it more difficult to survive in , partly because U loose the energy so quickly when trying to look at the enemy on your six. (early G6 = BnZ only)
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The G14, G10 and K4 have about the same turnrate but the K4 is the only one able to reach 890 km/h in careful dives, without braking. Actually the turnrate is good in these later ones. The problem is that u have to pull more lead to hit with the 30mm cannon compared to the 20mm wich has flatter trajectory. All of these later ones can make quite sharp turns if u throttle down to idle and pull hard and accellerate after the pull, in the turn.

In fast speeds U have only a very limited chance to outturn any fighter. P51 , spit mkIX, p38 even a p47 can hang on to u + all the russian ones yak3,yak9, La7 ,p63.

So.... I have noticed that when I cant shake the enemy off in a K4, the best options have been a bunting dive (push stick forward when enemy fires after u in the dive= he might roll to fire some more and forget his speed = braking up). Or a slow speed scissor wich might work even against an ace if u loose your speed fast enough and have practiced lowspeedhandling where the 109 is good = accelerates fast and forgiving stall.
Turning in one direction only gives the enemy the advantage, so the scissor is the sanest thing if U are forced into this kind of situation. Its extreemly important to be a good turner in a bad turning plane.


my opinion only http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

tfu_iain1
07-13-2004, 08:21 AM
its a nice little handler, but the G2 has hideous rear-quarters visibility, worse than most 109s so thats saying something. apparently like that in real life - Mark Hanna loathed the cockpit, position and visibility on the G2 when he flew Black 6.

horseback
07-13-2004, 10:43 AM
Extra weight in the RL G-5/6 models came from more than just the 13mm guns & ammo. The landing gear was larger and stronger, the main wheels were wider, necessitating the bulges on the tops of the wings, in an attempt to alleviate some of the landing problems. I believe pilot armor was also increased somewhat, tho that may have been a unit-level mod. There may have been increases in the size of oil and coolant reservoirs too, although I'm working from memory here, so don't hold me to that.

Low-speed handling may have suffered, but the trade-off was for more speed, because Allied fighters were getting faster, and their doctrines called for staying fast over likely combat areas. Most of them lacked the accelleration of the 190 or 109, and had to already be fast to take full advantage of their mounts in a fight, and make the initial bounce that much more difficult.

Guys too dumb to keep up with their flights or maintain their energy state were usually picked off in the first pass anyway. Everybody was energy fighting in the West by mid-late '43.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

Xnomad
07-13-2004, 01:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tfu_iain1:
its a nice little handler, but the G2 has hideous rear-quarters visibility, worse than most 109s so thats saying something. apparently like that in real life - Mark Hanna loathed the cockpit, position and visibility on the G2 when he flew Black 6.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where did you get Mark Hanna's views on Black 6, and do you know where there is more information on Hanna's views of the 109? I've read the stuff on www.bf109.com (http://www.bf109.com) but is there any more lying about on the web? It's a real shame he had to kick the bucket.

Also I would believe that a G-2 pilot could see ever so slightly more out the back in real life than we can. He could lean a bit more to the sides and peek past the armoured plating, you get an idea of this when you Shift F1 and look behind you.

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