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View Full Version : **This is not a whine** What's the deal with the muzzleflash anyway?



Yellonet
07-10-2004, 11:01 AM
Can someone with some insight (i.e. Penguin, Gibbage...) comment on this.

I heard someone say that changing the muzzleflash was impossible.
Is it? If so, why?


- Yellonet

Yellonet
07-10-2004, 11:01 AM
Can someone with some insight (i.e. Penguin, Gibbage...) comment on this.

I heard someone say that changing the muzzleflash was impossible.
Is it? If so, why?


- Yellonet

VW-IceFire
07-10-2004, 12:53 PM
Its because its hardcoded into each aircraft. That was what we were told and what I recall anyways. This coupled with probably some other issues means they can't change one without having to go through and change all of them which is probably a massive task considering how many guns and turrets exist in the game if you start totaling them up.

They are forgiven for the ones they have now. I just expect them to be a whole lot better for BoB. Which is a perfect reason for redoing the engine...they need to work on stuff like this.

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ucanfly
07-10-2004, 01:15 PM
This was a bad design decision that should not have been there from the beginning IMO. Too bad we've had to live with this for sooo long.

Flying_Merkava
07-10-2004, 01:54 PM
Wasnt this topic posted already?

Tater-SW-
07-10-2004, 03:21 PM
each specific flash isn't calculated, it's a standard animation (kinda like a sprite would be, but 3d), right? can't they simply change the size the code points to?

It might be too bright then in terms of the lighting effect, but not the size of the flame. ?

tater

necrobaron
07-10-2004, 04:28 PM
If it's a lot of work to fix on existing craft, surely they could at least fix the flashes on the new planes we're getting.

"Not all who wander are lost."

heywooood
07-10-2004, 04:38 PM
what about this - since they cant seem to diminish the brightness/severity of the muzzle flashes, what about increasing the brightness/harshness of the daylight?...

That'll give me an excuse to wear my Rayban Wayfarers whilst simming.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif



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"Check your guns"

peterm1
07-10-2004, 04:42 PM
I absolutely agree about muzzle flashes. Combined with the lack of gunsmoke and over emphasised smokey tracers it makes this entire set of effects associated with gunfire totally unrealistic. As to the flashes I would like to see someone from the development team describe in detail WHY it is impossible. I know enough about object oriented programming and have seen enough sims to know that in many other sims it is quite an easy thing to achieve by playing around with the relevant effect emitters and / or textures. OK if it is hard coded not implemented using specific objects that makes it more difficult but there must be THOUSANDS of posts like this almost unanimous in their complaint and in my ook that makes it worth taking note of.

Yellonet
07-10-2004, 05:30 PM
The size of the muzzleflashes are ok, believe it or not.

It's actually the visability that should depend on the level of brightness surrounding the gun.

But I shouldn't think that this is anything you can do with the IL-2 engine... so maybe we'll just have to accept the reality.


- Yellonet

Gibbage1
07-10-2004, 05:32 PM
Im not an expert in this. I never fired a real gun in my life. But my OPENION based on the proof given by many members of this forum is that they are compleatly overmodeled in daylight.

On a graphics point of view, they are modeled COMPLEATLY wrong. From my best estimate, they have 3 frames of animation in them. Say your running at 20FPS. Your gun is firing 12.5 rounds PER SECOND (based on 750RPM). So that means your guns visually are spouting flame for the complete duration of the time. In real life that flash was only present for a SPIT SECOND, and there was plenty of time between flashes. ITs often so fast your eyes NEVER see it. Only if you take a photo at the proper time will you EVER see the flash in day light. So in reality, there should only be a flash in daylight every once in a while, not every round. At night, its a differant story.

Do yourself a favor. WAtch drag racing. Watch some races in day, and then some at night. In day, you never see flames commin out of the exhaust because its so quick. At night, it lights up the track. Thats the way it should be. But I dont think Oleg has ever programmed in a differance between night and day for things like this.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
Can someone with some insight (i.e. Penguin, Gibbage...) comment on this.

I heard someone say that changing the muzzleflash was impossible.
Is it? If so, why?


- Yellonet<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ElAurens
07-10-2004, 05:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flying_Merkava:
Wasnt this topic posted already?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, only eclipsed by the FW cockpit rants....

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Yellonet
07-10-2004, 05:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Im not an expert in this. I never fired a real gun in my life. But my OPENION based on the proof given by many members of this forum is that they are compleatly overmodeled in daylight.

On a graphics point of view, they are modeled COMPLEATLY wrong. From my best estimate, they have 3 frames of animation in them. Say your running at 20FPS. Your gun is firing 12.5 rounds PER SECOND (based on 750RPM). So that means your guns visually are spouting flame for the complete duration of the time. In real life that flash was only present for a SPIT SECOND, and there was plenty of time between flashes. ITs often so fast your eyes NEVER see it. Only if you take a photo at the proper time will you EVER see the flash in day light. So in reality, there should only be a flash in daylight every once in a while, not every round. At night, its a differant story.

Do yourself a favor. WAtch drag racing. Watch some races in day, and then some at night. In day, you never see flames commin out of the exhaust because its so quick. At night, it lights up the track. Thats the way it should be. But I dont think Oleg has ever programmed in a differance between night and day for things like this.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
Can someone with some insight (i.e. Penguin, Gibbage...) comment on this.

I heard someone say that changing the muzzleflash was impossible.
Is it? If so, why?


- Yellonet<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well... that was pretty much my point. So you do agree.. or not?


- Yellonet

Gibbage1
07-10-2004, 06:09 PM
Half-n-half. I agree with the muzzleflash at night. I dont agree with it in the day.

Woodrow79
07-10-2004, 06:13 PM
I haven't flown in IL-2 that much, but from all the threads and requests to get rid of these two things -- the huge muzzle flash and the smoke trails from flak and other fired rounds -- 1C should fix them, period. I haven't seen anyone who likes either of those things.

Hard to change? So what. Do it. You have months and months before this game comes out, and if you have to push back the release a month or two, just fix the problem. I think these two things were added (way back when) to juice up the graphics for those most interested in playing arcade games and the reason it isn't being changed is likely because they still want to appeal to the market that drools over fireball muzzle flashes and smokey flak trails. It puts more movement and action on the screen and that segment of the market likes to see bright lights and shiney objects and it helps sell product. As a product it is understandable why they might want to keep these two things in Pacific Fighters, but as a simulation these two things suck the pipe.

FIX IT.

I get one vote and that is my vote. At least offer a realism option to tweak such things.
I assume this forum is up to allow for such discussion, and hopefully, to allow the developers to hear what their customers want.
The customers have spoken, loud and clear. Fix it.


Woodrow

Cpt_Jack
07-10-2004, 10:24 PM
I agree with Woodrow and the rest that the MG tracers and muzzle flashes are overdone. And the tracer smoke from AA coming from ships is going to be very distracting, and a frame-rate killer for sure. How hard can it be to fix this? It may take some work, and some extra time, but I'm sure many people would rather wait longer (and even pay a little more) if the developers would handle these things.

I'm beginning to think that they made a big mistake in making this game with the Il-2 engine and designing BoB with a new one, instead of the other way around. Maybe BoB should have been released first, and Pacific Fighters should have been saved for an improved game engine. It seems like most of the elements needed for BoB are already available in FB. But PF will need some improvements that some are saying are not possible with this engine. Reduced tracer smoke, especially from ships; better engine sounds would be nice; more advanced weather options, etc. BoB would be perfectly acceptable with the current engine. It covers a fairly small map area, and we pretty much have all the aircraft we need already. But s**t, I guess it's too late to bring this up now, isn't it? Anyway, I would rather wait longer for PF if they would only tweak it a little. And surely that's not impossible.

heywooood
07-10-2004, 10:32 PM
maybe we'll all be pleasantly surprised..it has happened before. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif



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"Check your guns"

Bee_Stinger_
07-10-2004, 11:00 PM
Well I did not know the muzzel flash was a problem until I read all this in the forum. I have notice that when flying a P39 and firing the 37mm cannon, that I have hit another plane point blank, three or more times, only to find the enemy plane still in one piece. This is starting to make me think this is a pro russia game. But in some other cases I have destoyed a yak and some other planes with one shot from the 37mm cannon...

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sapre
07-11-2004, 06:25 AM
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/140504/carrier_action%20_9.jpg

isn't the muzzle flash smaller then FB/AEP?

LeadSpitter_
07-11-2004, 06:38 AM
everythings a whine, any discussion is a whine in this community http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Im not sure but theres no aircraft with nose firing cannon besides the p39 and p38. Its the same engine basically and oleg said it cant be changed many times. Its an fx and certainly could I think. Shrug

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DuxCorvan
07-11-2004, 07:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
maybe we'll all be pleasantly surprised..it has happened before.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but, anyway, I'm not waiting till the night after wedding to know if my girl is a he or a she. I'd rather know it now. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

VW-IceFire
07-11-2004, 07:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sapre:
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/140504/carrier_action%20_9.jpg

isn't the muzzle flash smaller then FB/AEP?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mmm no I don't think so. I think they caught it on its smallest point (it does change shape/size as firing).

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RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"