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RinoTheBouncer
04-30-2015, 04:43 PM
Today marks the 70th anniversary of the assassination of Adolf Hitler on the hands of the Assassins.


70 years ago, our Assassin brothers have rid the world of a tyrant who murdered millions of innocent people, and would've murdered millions more if it wasn't for their bravery and determination.


As we all know, Abstergo controls the books you read, the movies you see, and all the information that reaches you, and they alter history however they want to make sure the world remains oblivious of certain historical facts that could threaten the Templars' work.


Here's a sneak peak into the life of Adolf Hitler and his work with the Templars and how his massacres were a distraction to allow Abstergo Industries to take control of the working population:


Adolf Hitler (20 April 1889 – 30 April 1945) was the leader of the National Socialist German Workers Party, also known as the Nazi Party, serving as Chancellor of Germany from 1933 to 1945.


By the 1930s, Hitler was under the influence of the Templar Order, obtaining an Apple of Eden from Templar industrialist Henry Ford, intending for him to use it to start World War II. Alongside fellow Templar puppet Joseph Stalin, Hitler brought on the turmoil and fear necessary for Abstergo Industries to take control of the working population.


On 30 April 1945, at the end of the war, Hitler executed his body double inside the Führerbunker and planned to meet Winston Churchill with the Apple of Eden at a rendezvous point. However, upon leaving the bunker, Hitler was assassinated by the Assassins.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xta1/t31.0-8/s960x960/11134158_1589115598006548_5755634682785668377_o.jp g

VestigialLlama4
04-30-2015, 05:06 PM
Today marks the 70th anniversary of the assassination of Adolf Hitler on the hands of the Assassins.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The Nazi Tyranny was stopped by the Allies (the Americans, the Soviet, the English, the Resistance of Poland, Holland, Denmark, France and other nations) and not by the Assassins. The Assassins are a metaphor only. Hitler was nothing more than a bloody coward who killed himself rather than face captivity by the Soviets.

For me what Stalin said was the best response:
--> "So the bastard's dead. Too bad we didn't capture him alive."

I can imagine that Stalin planned to get some boys with pliers and a blow torch and go to work on Hitler.


70 years ago, our Assassin brothers have rid the world of a tyrant who murdered millions of innocent people, and would've murdered millions more if it wasn't for their bravery and determination.

The bravery and determination of the countless allied soldiers you mean.


As we all know, Abstergo controls the books you read, the movies you see, and all the information that reaches you, and they alter history however they want to make sure the world remains oblivious of certain historical facts that could threaten the Templars' work.

The millions of soldiers lost by the Soviets and the Americans and their allies are not information that can be altered by a braindead cult like the Templars.

You cannot judge real-life people by the same standards as a cult of Assassins. I would have far more respect for the Assassins if they actually stopped Hitler before he killed all those people. As it happens, they took him out when he was weak and powerless, there's nothing brave or worthy to celebrate in that.

Shahkulu101
04-30-2015, 05:24 PM
^ Stalin also deserved torture, he was a monstrous human being.

Then again, without Russia's help we may not have won. That's some real life moral ambiguity.

Oh and I hope you know he was just going over the lore, nothing serious here...

VestigialLlama4
04-30-2015, 05:42 PM
^ Stalin also deserved torture, he was a monstrous human being.

Then again, without Russia's help we may not have won. That's some real life moral ambiguity.

Look, the Americans practised segregation even during WW2, interned Japanese Americans, the Britsh ran an Empire and created a manmade famine in Bengal and Winston Churchill personally screwed over the Greek allies at the end of the war by putting Greek fascists back in power (Churchill was obsessed with the soft underbelly of the Mediterranean and wanted to make it a sphere of influence since he hadn't learned from the Gallipoli disaster...Roosevelt wisely began tuning him out later on). They were all still miles and miles better and more preferable than the offal that is Hitler and his regime.


Oh and I hope you know he was just going over the lore, nothing serious here...

I know that, but there's a difference between the lore saying Desmond and Connor were born on this day and saying the Assassins stopped Hitler, they did not do any such thing. I have huge problems with how the lore in AC2 handled World War 2 anyway and always hope they retcon it to Subject 16 being crazy or that "he unearthed some Templar misinformation campaign" otherwise they are as good as calling Roosevelt and Churchill Nazi collaborators and enablers of genocide, which is absolutely monstrous. I always saw that as "okay this is clearly a joke" and not meant to be taken too seriously.

I had a discussion with SixKeys on another thread on what the implications of the Lore are, and I always insist that it can't really be taken on face value. It works as largely a parody.

Shahkulu101
04-30-2015, 06:03 PM
Look, the Americans practised segregation even during WW2, interned Japanese Americans, the Britsh ran an Empire and created a manmade famine in Bengal and Winston Churchill personally screwed over the Greek allies at the end of the war by putting Greek fascists back in power (Churchill was obsessed with the soft underbelly of the Mediterranean and wanted to make it a sphere of influence since he hadn't learned from the Gallipoli disaster...Roosevelt wisely began tuning him out later on). They were all still miles and miles better and more preferable than the offal that is Hitler and his regime.



I know that, but there's a difference between the lore saying Desmond and Connor were born on this day and saying the Assassins stopped Hitler, they did not do any such thing. I have huge problems with how the lore in AC2 handled World War 2 anyway and always hope they retcon it to Subject 16 being crazy or that "he unearthed some Templar misinformation campaign" otherwise they are as good as calling Roosevelt and Churchill Nazi collaborators and enablers of genocide, which is absolutely monstrous. I always saw that as "okay this is clearly a joke" and not meant to be taken too seriously.

I had a discussion with SixKeys on another thread on what the implications of the Lore are, and I always insist that it can't really be taken on face value. It works as largely a parody.

They did stop Hitler...according to the ridiculous lore. I agree it sounds parodical, but it's unintentional. If that were the case the glyphs would come across as self-aware or satirical, but nothing indicates that we aren't supposed to take it seriously. It's just so ridiculous you can't help but be amused.

That's not to say I didn't enjoy the glyphs, they had a grippingly eery atmosphere to them and some of the sound-clips from 16 were really disturbing (S16 voice work was excellent, wish they never changed him in ACR) and believable which only added to the creepy mood. And even though it was contrived as all heck, the way they kind of rewrote history and explained how PoE's altered the course of it was entertaining in a guilty pleasure sort of way. I mean who doesn't like a bit of Dan Brown and the like? It's cheesy but engaging nonetheless.

Sushiglutton
04-30-2015, 06:08 PM
By the 1930s, Hitler was under the influence of the Templar Order, obtaining an Apple of Eden from Templar industrialist Henry Ford, intending for him to use it to start World War II. Alongside fellow Templar puppet Joseph Stalin, Hitler brought on the turmoil and fear necessary for Abstergo Industries to take control of the working population.

On 30 April 1945, at the end of the war, Hitler executed his body double inside the Führerbunker and planned to meet Winston Churchill with the Apple of Eden at a rendezvous point. However, upon leaving the bunker, Hitler was assassinated by the Assassins.


This should be the script for the movie. Perhaps we can get Mel Gibson to direct?



They did stop Hitler...according to the ridiculous lore. I agree it sounds parodical, but it's unintentional. If that were the case the glyphs would come across as self-aware or satirical, but nothing indicates that we aren't supposed to take it seriously. It's just so ridiculous you can't help but be amused.

Where was this published? Are you saying it's really made by Ubisoft?

Shahkulu101
04-30-2015, 06:45 PM
This should be the script for the movie. Perhaps we can get Mel Gibson to direct?




Where was this published? Are you saying it's really made by Ubisoft?

Yeah it's in the glyphs, check the wiki if you must.

Or are you being sarcastic?

EDIT: And I'm not saying Ubisoft is telling us the real 'truth' - I'm fairly certain you aren't supposed to take it literally. ;)

The point I was making is that this is official lore that isn't meant as a joke, even if it's so silly it seems that way.

RA503
04-30-2015, 09:50 PM
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The Nazi Tyranny was stopped by the Allies (the Americans, the Soviet, the English, the Resistance of Poland, Holland, Denmark, France and other nations) and not by the Assassins. .

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ2XftY_XYmgznQEdV0a7UELh107i8yM d_2C3RLIAM5myPJi-eo

marvelfannumber
04-30-2015, 10:05 PM
Ugh, never was a fan of how the series has handled WWII lore. I simply just can't see Hitler as a Templar puppet, I mean I didn't know him or anything but he seems more like the guy who would want to exterminate both the Assassins and Templars or just wasn't aware of them.

If they ever do make a WWII game (which I wouldn't be 100% opposed to), I hope they retcon most of this personally.

Oh and Hitler "executed his body double"? wat

Mr.Black24
05-01-2015, 03:08 AM
Ugh, never was a fan of how the series has handled WWII lore. I simply just can't see Hitler as a Templar puppet, I mean I didn't know him or anything but he seems more like the guy who would want to exterminate both the Assassins and Templars or just wasn't aware of them.

If they ever do make a WWII game (which I wouldn't be 100% opposed to), I hope they retcon most of this personally.

Oh and Hitler "executed his body double"? watWhat, are you kidding me? The Templars have no problem killing many if it means to complete the goal. They follow the whole "the ends justify the means" kind of path. Don't let Haytham and the Colonial Templars get to ya, this group was a special case, but every other part of history had shown that the Templars aren't shy of starting a massacre. I mean look at the Great Purge of 2000. They not only killed Assassins, but their harmless wives and children. Heck even members of the Colonial Templars, William Johnson, James Wardrop, and Lawrence Washington were known to massacre and misplace the Native American populace. The Templars had always been in the darker shade of grey within the moral area. They just had their rare exceptions of being in a lighter tint from time to time.

Plus it had been shown that the Assassins had helped the Allies with assassinations and intelligence gathering in Initates, so it was a joint effort, unknown to the Allies at that time.

Namikaze_17
05-01-2015, 03:25 AM
the Templars aren't shy of starting a massacre. I mean look at the Great Purge of 2000. They not only killed Assassins, but their harmless wives and children.

Would the Assassins have done the same if the shoe was on the other foot?

I-Like-Pie45
05-01-2015, 03:33 AM
Winston Churchill was a bigger supervillain than Hitler and killed just as many with his western colonist imperalist policies in Asia and Africa yet we don't see people demonizing him

Mr.Black24
05-01-2015, 03:39 AM
Would the Assassins have done the same if the shoe was on the other foot?
Pft no. The Creed forbids it. Look at Abbas and Jeannot Bullet, both members of the Levantine and Haitian branch of the Brotherhood respectively, for harming civilians, and Altair and Eseosa had sentenced them to death for it. The Creed had always emphasized that the killing of innocents is not only wrong, but also would bring disorder and chaos among the people, things that they are against, for they are to make peace after all.

Plus it is not the first time that the Assassins rescued Templar kids, like Giovanni Borgia for example, whom was rescued by Francesco Vecellio. They could have done that, or seen them to good homes. Like, once again, Templar Grand Master de La Serre adopted Arno as his very own son. Templars could have done the same. I mean they have huge resources and power, they'd could have done something. But as Haytham once put it, "What? And waste precious time and money in their care?"

Namikaze_17
05-01-2015, 04:11 AM
Pft no. The Creed forbids it. Look at Abbas and Jeannot Bullet, both members of the Levantine and Haitian branch of the Brotherhood respectively, for harming civilians, and Altair and Eseosa had sentenced them to death for it. The Creed had always emphasized that the killing of innocents is not only wrong, but also would bring disorder and chaos among the people, things that they are against, for they are to make peace after all.

Well, they are against the Templar Order. And I suppose they'd rather fight the Templars forever and let more death ensue than eradicate them altogether? :rolleyes:

But under specific leadership ( like Vidic), you must admit the Assassins would also be prone to take extreme measures if it meant getting rid of the enemy.

Even ones that go against their principles.


"What? And waste precious time and money in their care?"


To be fair, those were grown soldiers. Not children. :rolleyes:

Mr.Black24
05-01-2015, 04:58 AM
Well, they are against the Templar Order. And I suppose they'd rather fight the Templars forever and let more death ensue than eradicate them altogether? :rolleyes:

But under specific leadership ( like Vidic), you must admit the Assassins would also be prone to take extreme measures if it meant getting rid of the enemy.

Even ones that go against their principles. Like bruh, you ignored my counterpoint that had foreseen this, which I have right here:



Plus it is not the first time that the Assassins rescued Templar kids, like Giovanni Borgia for example, whom was rescued by Francesco Vecellio. They could have done that, or seen them to good homes. Like, once again, Templar Grand Master de La Serre adopted Arno as his very own son. Templars could have done the same. I mean they have huge resources and power, they'd could have done something.

Total eradication through death is something that no modern day Assassins would do. They would have seen them to good homes or trained under the Brotherhood. You rarely see this with the Templars though, despite all their power and influence.


To be fair, those were grown soldiers. Not children. :rolleyes: Yet they mercilessly killed both.

Namikaze_17
05-01-2015, 05:05 AM
Total eradication through death is something that no modern day Assassins would do. They would have seen them to good homes or trained under the Brotherhood. You rarely see this with the Templars though, despite all their power and influence.

And you ignored my counterpoint about a specific leader. :rolleyes:

The Assassins had the humble Mentor of 2000, Templars had guys like Vidic.


Yet they mercilessly killed both



No one is perfect.

marvelfannumber
05-01-2015, 10:57 AM
What, are you kidding me? The Templars have no problem killing many if it means to complete the goal. They follow the whole "the ends justify the means" kind of path. Don't let Haytham and the Colonial Templars get to ya, this group was a special case, but every other part of history had shown that the Templars aren't shy of starting a massacre. I mean look at the Great Purge of 2000. They not only killed Assassins, but their harmless wives and children. Heck even members of the Colonial Templars, William Johnson, James Wardrop, and Lawrence Washington were known to massacre and misplace the Native American populace. The Templars had always been in the darker shade of grey within the moral area. They just had their rare exceptions of being in a lighter tint from time to time.

Plus it had been shown that the Assassins had helped the Allies with assassinations and intelligence gathering in Initates, so it was a joint effort, unknown to the Allies at that time.

Uhm, what? I can't recall saying the Templars wouldn't/couldn't pull the strings during WWII, I am just saying that the very idea of Hitler being some kind of a puppet is silly. Hitler did not seem like the kind of guy who would want to be controlled by anyone, if anyone was gonna give orders it was him. I could see Mussolini perhaps as a puppet, but Hitler? Just no.

Though I have no idea where you read any of the stuff you are responding to, did you quote the wrong post?

ze_topazio
05-01-2015, 01:24 PM
Let's celebrate.

http://i.imgur.com/kUpVtGD.gif



Uhm, what? I can't recall saying the Templars wouldn't/couldn't pull the strings during WWII, I am just saying that the very idea of Hitler being some kind of a puppet is silly. Hitler did not seem like the kind of guy who would want to be controlled by anyone, if anyone was gonna give orders it was him. I could see Mussolini perhaps as a puppet, but Hitler? Just no.

Though I have no idea where you read any of the stuff you are responding to, did you quote the wrong post?

Hitler at first was a full Templar executing a plan made by him, Churchill and Stalin to create a new world order from the ashes of World War 2 the sequel, but they have been retconning that, Hitler being portrayed as a not so bad guy and Hitler and Stalin being best friends of Churchill, too controversial for this age of feels and excessive political correctness.

ACZanius
05-01-2015, 03:51 PM
VestigialLlama4 is one big ****ing ****, jaysus dude it is the LORE all is about the AC: Lore, plus RinoTheBouncer always has these type of interesting threads regarding history and events of Assassins. Why so serious man?

PS: I would like to see a EPISODIC WW2, something like DLC not a full blown game, epic battles and complete chaos while you're the Assassin in the middle.

VestigialLlama4
05-01-2015, 06:14 PM
VestigialLlama4 is one big ****ing ****, jaysus dude it is the LORE all is about the AC: Lore, plus RinoTheBouncer always has these type of interesting threads regarding history and events of Assassins. Why so serious man?

First of all, Rino the Bouncer is a sincere and dedicated fan of AC and he certainly loves the lore, so he's taking this no less seriously than I am. I like his posts too. My main concern is simply the emphasis because its based on some pretty dubious material from the Lore and I was simply raising concerns for not taking it seriously or at face value.


PS: I would like to see a EPISODIC WW2, something like DLC not a full blown game, epic battles and complete chaos while you're the Assassin in the middle.

You already have the Battle of Bunker Hill in AC3, you have the Siege of Viana in Brotherhood and the fictitious invasion of Montriggioni at the start of Brotherhood. Undoubtedly it would be vastly more elaborate with WW2, but will it really be all that different from the battlefield assassinations we already have?

marvelfannumber
05-01-2015, 11:08 PM
but will it really be all that different from the battlefield assassinations we already have?

There would probably be more cheap deaths I reckon :rolleyes:

Mr.Black24
05-01-2015, 11:16 PM
First of all, Rino the Bouncer is a sincere and dedicated fan of AC and he certainly loves the lore, so he's taking this no less seriously than I am. I like his posts too. My main concern is simply the emphasis because its based on some pretty dubious material from the Lore and I was simply raising concerns for not taking it seriously or at face value.
Nah dude, you took it way too seriously. In the lore, the Assassins did deal the final blow to Hitler, by assassinating the guy personally. But then you said "Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The Nazi Tyranny was stopped by the Allies (the Americans, the Soviet, the English, the Resistance of Poland, Holland, Denmark, France and other nations) and not by the Assassins. The Assassins are a metaphor only. Hitler was nothing more than a bloody coward who killed himself rather than face captivity by the Soviets."

Reality wise, yes, he did off himself. Lore wise, he was killed by the Assassins.

You also mentioned that "You cannot judge real-life people by the same standards as a cult of Assassins. I would have far more respect for the Assassins if they actually stopped Hitler before he killed all those people. As it happens, they took him out when he was weak and powerless, there's nothing brave or worthy to celebrate in that."

That actually remains mostly unknown. I mean they're could have an elite contagion of Assassins that helped stormed into the camps alongside the Allies. Indeed though, it is all speculation, both yours, mines, and Rino's.

However they did act as an intelligence network for the Allies, as shown in Initiates. However, you had to go on the map to see this info, and that version of Initiates is long gone sadly.


You already have the Battle of Bunker Hill in AC3, you have the Siege of Viana in Brotherhood and the fictitious invasion of Montriggioni at the start of Brotherhood. Undoubtedly it would be vastly more elaborate with WW2, but will it really be all that different from the battlefield assassinations we already have?

It would be much more chaotic, compared to Bunker Hill, I mean you have rapid machine gun fire, and quicker/deadlier artillery. It would be much more hellish to doge all of that while seeing your comrades blow up to bloody pieces in front of ya. Plus, I am positive that Bunker Hill was way too tame. Many people did say that it was executed poorly, in fact, one of the most anticipated levels actually, since the way the trailer portrayed a battle field *I know that wasn't Bunker Hill, but that impression of doing something like it....*


Uhm, what? I can't recall saying the Templars wouldn't/couldn't pull the strings during WWII, I am just saying that the very idea of Hitler being some kind of a puppet is silly. Hitler did not seem like the kind of guy who would want to be controlled by anyone, if anyone was gonna give orders it was him. I could see Mussolini perhaps as a puppet, but Hitler? Just no.

Though I have no idea where you read any of the stuff you are responding to, did you quote the wrong post? You mentioned them as if they barely do such things, well at least that was the impression that you gave off when I read it.

Plus Hitler would have no idea that he is a puppet, I mean sure the Templars gave him the Apple of Eden, but in his mind, he thought that they were his benefactors when in fact the Templars were manipulating him. As they described it here; "I had to let PE4 go. As per instructions, I've shipped it to Europe. H. has it, so I assume the war will begin as soon as he can take over. We'll let him have his fun... and then end it with a bang, as planned." ―Henry Ford, in a letter to Thomas Edison


And you ignored my counterpoint about a specific leader. :rolleyes:

The Assassins had the humble Mentor of 2000, Templars had guys like Vidic. It flew over you head again; What I'm saying, as history had shown, is that not only the Creed prevents such things as much as it has, corrupt Assassin leaders are very few and far in between, while there were many Templar leaders who would put innocent lives on the line in the grand scheme of things. That the Templars had always been in the darker grey areas than the Assassins had ever been.


No one is perfect.But some dirty diamonds shine brighter then others. :rolleyes:

Namikaze_17
05-01-2015, 11:55 PM
It flew over you head again; What I'm saying, as history had shown, is that not only the Creed prevents such things as much as it has, corrupt Assassin leaders are very few and far in between, while there were many Templar leaders who would put innocent lives on the line in the grand scheme of things. That the Templars had always been in the darker grey areas than the Assassins had ever been.

Well yes. Because god forbid the people in the white hoods with blades under their hands be guilty of any form of murder. :rolleyes:

Yet we do it ( if necessary mind you), and we're regarded as the most despicable beings to walk the the planet.

But at any rate, this was a good discussion my friend. I would continue, but I've forgotten what we were discussing. XD


But some dirty diamonds shine brighter then others. :rolleyes:

Your kind...always playing with words. :rolleyes:

Locopells
05-02-2015, 09:37 AM
OK people, enough with the name calling, etc - keep it cool, it's a fictional version of history we're talking about here...

ACZanius
05-02-2015, 03:08 PM
VestigialLlama4
"You already have the Battle of Bunker Hill in AC3, you have the Siege of Viana in Brotherhood and the fictitious invasion of Montriggioni at the start of Brotherhood. Undoubtedly it would be vastly more elaborate with WW2, but will it really be all that different from the battlefield assassinations we already have?"

lol battle of bunker hill was lame and really big disappointment, i didn't feel any adrenaline or rush or things at stake, go to point A-B-C, truly a lame execution, false advert when it was shown in E3 and Gameplay reveal.

PS: After the battle when Putnam says "Boston is the true price" Did i miss something or idk i thought something big in Boston was about to follow but nothing happened after that, idk somebody super nerd on American Revolution historiy can aware me? Thanks

VestigialLlama4
05-02-2015, 06:12 PM
PS: After the battle when Putnam says "Boston is the true price" Did i miss something or idk i thought something big in Boston was about to follow but nothing happened after that, idk somebody super nerd on American Revolution historiy can aware me? Thanks

It's clear from the games. Bunker Hill was a retreat from the Patriots but it was a Pyrrhic Victory for the English. The battle was indecisive and the English took far greater losses than they needed to. Thanks to the retreat by the Patriots, they can go back and reinforce Boston which is the Patriot stronghold. That means that the war will go on and the English have a real revolution to fight. The English had they had a real crushing victory at Bunker Hill could have advanced to Boston and finished the Revolution in the cradle. "Boston is the true prize", Putnam means that the real objective is not winning the battle but reinforcing and protecting the stronghold, as a general he's prioritizing Strategy (Overall Goals and Preserving Means to Achieve It) over Tactics (using resources to win a battle even if it is not decisive).