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View Full Version : X45 or FF joystick? Opinions please!



XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 04:25 AM
I have been playing this wonderful game for a few months and am hopelessly addicted! I am asking my wife to buy me a new joystick for Christmas.
I will either get an X45 or a Saitek 3D FF or an MS FFB2.

I like having the extra buttons on the 45 so I won't need the keyboard...but, OTOH, FF would be really cool and help with immersion.
So, what is more important to you guys? FF or HOTAS with lots o'buttons.
I do want your opinions. What joystick should I get? Getting both is out of the question so please don't suggest it. One or the other---which should I get?

Thanks! I do appreciate it!

AFDiamond

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 04:25 AM
I have been playing this wonderful game for a few months and am hopelessly addicted! I am asking my wife to buy me a new joystick for Christmas.
I will either get an X45 or a Saitek 3D FF or an MS FFB2.

I like having the extra buttons on the 45 so I won't need the keyboard...but, OTOH, FF would be really cool and help with immersion.
So, what is more important to you guys? FF or HOTAS with lots o'buttons.
I do want your opinions. What joystick should I get? Getting both is out of the question so please don't suggest it. One or the other---which should I get?

Thanks! I do appreciate it!

AFDiamond

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 04:28 AM
I have MS FF2, I play with forcefeedback on, and can't go wihtout it, ffb seem to be essential. As for hotkeys, I don't think you'll ever have enought buttons on your joystick.

I have MSff2 and I recomend it.

---------------------------------------

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 04:30 AM
I like the construction and dual controls of the X45 a lot... Nothing else as good AFAIK.. (had Cyborg before that)

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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 04:46 AM
First of all, welcome to the community,/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


That is a very dificult question to answer.

You should ask this question to yourself first:

Do i need force feedback, or do i need a hotas?


Once you have an answer, its easier for us to help you.
We can however, give you a few notions about all three sistems.


Fact, you will need rudder pedals, to truly enjoy an Hotas, so right there you would need to spend more money than you would be willing to.

Fact, a force feedback joystick, can imerse you more with the game, but its better to play during the day, since during the night, when its silent, it can seem and sound like you are driving a truck, not to mention that you won't have a nifty throttle to follow the imersion FF gives you!



Using the options you give me, i would tell you to get a FF joystick.
Its much cheaper than an Hotas, and it can satisfy you completly.

Now that my opinion on the sistem is given, lets talk about the choice beetween the two FF joystick you mention.

I would choose the Saitek.
Not because its better than the Microsft, if anything they'r alike, sharing the same quality, but because Microsoft has closed they'r Sidewinder hardware branch offices, wich means that you won't get any oficial support for it.
Saitek, however, is going strong in the market, and they give a pretty good support for they'r products.


My opinion is given.



BTW, my opinion is not in anyway, biased toward Saitek, i'm a long time Logitech customer, and since you haven't mentioned the FF solutions from Logitech, there's is no need for me to talk about them.



Enjoy.

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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 04:49 AM
I use both. I have an old Microsoft Force Feedback Pro and an X45. I use the throttle of the X45 with the FFB Pro. Works like a champ. So I was thinking that you could get one at this time and later down the road buy the other. After having the forces, I didn't like the X45.

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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 04:52 AM
I miss the FFB of my old stick sometimes, but I love my X45.

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 04:53 AM
Why not use both? I do.... Get the MSFFB2 now while you can ..for around $59. Then get a Saitek X45. For $130 you will have an awesome setup...better than any of those high priced HOTAS setups you hear so much about.

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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 04:57 AM
Tried both and will stick with X45. Much prefer HOTAS to FF but if I had FF in a WW2 stick config and not a wrist stick, then I would consider it.

Threw FF stick away but then it was only a Logitech. Nothing seems to help me get kills though. Something to do with being a crap aim (-: But hey, at least the other guys have to work had to kill me.

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 06:49 AM
I used to fly with just an X45 and it was great, but MS FF2 + X45 (for the throttle) is like being in heaven http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

s!


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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 07:02 AM
Force Feed back is a joke, it usually just serves to throw your precision off as well as gives nothing of the real tactile feel of the real deal.

In real life you don't feel much in the way of the controls shaking from things such as weapons fire because that effects the entire airframe not the flight controls specifically.

However it does 'if programmed in' give feel to flight control buffeting from outside envelope conditions. Nothing will ever artifically give the complete feeling of becoming a human accelerameter when strapped into the real machine.

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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 07:26 AM
As several have posted the x45 for throttle and MSFFB as stick is a very affordable combo. The best setup for you is the one YOU fly best with, not the one I tell you to like. Welcome to the boards

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 07:30 AM
I too use the MSFF2 with the X45 Throttle Quadrant. I use the X45 stick's buttons for misc controls (like landing gears and breaks, ect).

See you in the fence.....

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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 07:44 AM
Resev is right, great comment there.
I used to have a logitech ff stick and now an x45.
Both have pro's and cons.
X45 is very difficult without rudder pedals, especially if you are used to the twist grip rudder on most sticks. x45 rudder is fine for jets and stuff, but aiming in il2 can be rather challenging.

When I switched from an FF stick to the x45 I was very worried about not having FF anymore. To be totally honest I got used to not having FF in about 15 minutes. The X45 has a GREAT feel to it
If you plan on flying games like Lomac and Falcon 4 with huge key maps ( essential for onboard systems ) and stuff get and X45. Never have to touch the keyboard.
Otherwise just take the cyborg stick. Its more than adequate for IL2 and easier to use.

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 09:04 AM
Definitely the FFB2. If you don't have FFB, you might as well take your showers with a raincoat on. You will feel the energy of your plane because the spring tightens with speed. Rudder pedals? Who needs 'em. They'll only give you hehoroids. Twist stick is definitely the way to go too. You can mod all the FFB files so you get the forces you want, and less of the forces you don't want.

Of course to be an ace in FB you'll need a separate throttle (b/c of the CEM buttons) so that means get a CH Pro throttle to go with the MSFFB2. Then you'll be totally styling with matching hardware and no desktop clutter (ie having that flour sifter of a X45 stick sitting around looking ugly)

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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 09:18 AM
something ive always been wondering, who sells rudder pedals?

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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 09:21 AM
AFDiamond wrote:
- I have been playing this wonderful game for a few
- months and am hopelessly addicted! I am asking my
- wife to buy me a new joystick for Christmas.
- I will either get an X45 or a Saitek 3D FF or an MS
- FFB2.

Highly recommend the 3D FF. I've had it 2 years in constant use. Solid stick with great FF that I would say is essential. Personnaly I dont like HOTAS, but prefer to use the defaults on the keyboard.

I'd never join a club that would have ME as a member!!.

Caliber25th
11-10-2003, 09:37 AM
It really depends on how realistic you want your experience to be. Personally I have a X45 - and I asked myself the same question about whether to get a FF stick or the X45. But to me, the way I see it, FF will usually throw your aiming off. At the same time, it could help you too. It's just a matter of personal preference.

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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 10:55 AM
Well since game is supposed to be fun definiatly get a force feedback joystick instead of the X 45 (preferrable saitek Cyborg force stick).

I use the force feedback joystick for the same reason I never fly with only cockpit view and no external views and with icons both on map and in flight. Much more fun that way.

Sure the non FFB joysticks probably last longer and that separate HOTAS control is really nice and you get a little bit more precision but you can fly closer to stall with a force feedback joystick since it´s much easier to feel the limits...

And as I said it´s much more FUN.

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 11:15 AM
I use an X45 and very much like the functionality. However, there is one BIG drawback...durability. In the 12 months or so since I've been playing IL-2/IL-2FB, I've gone through about five or six of them. They simply don't last. Springs get weak and the trigger button can become inoperative. Given that, I'd go with the MS FFB2. When the one that I'm currently goes, that will be the direction for me as well.

It's too bad too because the X45 is a good joystick...when new.

GR142-Pipper

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 02:08 PM
http://www.provantage.com/buy-110CHPU-ch-shopping.htm
Good pricing prompt delivery. Just make sure you get the USB Pro pedals.

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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 02:57 PM
GR142-Pipper wrote:
- I use an X45 and very much like the functionality.
- However, there is one BIG drawback...durability. In
- the 12 months or so since I've been playing
- IL-2/IL-2FB, I've gone through about five or six of
- them. They simply don't last. Springs get weak and
- the trigger button can become inoperative. Given
- that, I'd go with the MS FFB2. When the one that I'm
- currently goes, that will be the direction for me as
- well.
-
- It's too bad too because the X45 is a good
- joystick...when new.

Well that was surprising to hear. I have an Cyborg 3D stick that has last forever... And I usually wear out my joysticks pretty quick. But to be honest I did pay some cheap ones before I got the Cyborg 3D.

Have got the Cyborg force stick for very long now and it still works as new though...

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 03:22 PM
Welcome!

I've never had FFB so I don't know what I'm missing.....I guess.

I have an X-45 and I love it. This whole thing on durability....I'm willing to bet those people are fairly hard on their sticks, although I don't know how. You can't successfully fly these planes slammin' the stick around. If the X-45 was so flimsy I don't think they would be as popular as they are. I replaced my Saitek X7-38 not because it was falling apart, but because I got tired of having to grope about on the keyboard. With the X-45 I only use the keyboard to play back tracks, everything else is mapped to the HOTAS.
As for flying closer to the flight envelope w/FF....I just listen to the plane, I can hear the buffeting just prior to stall and watch the wingtips. You'll see contrails when you approach stall speed.

I heartly reccomend the X-45. For me it's more immersive. I like being able to not have to check the keyboard while flying to make sure I pressing the right function.

My 2 cents.

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Message Edited on 11/10/0306:30AM by Beebop-PBNA

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 03:49 PM
well m8, you can get the X45 w/throttle at the saitek site for around 80 bux shipping and all. now one thing to keep in mind is its one of the best sticks and throttle you could get. you'll have to get used to not having a twist handle for rudder though. i think thats what scares most people away from this stick. with the X45 and throttle, the rudder is on the throttle, its been described as a "rocker arm". further on down the road you could purchase the CH Pro Rudder pedals and you'll be in for the ride of a lifetime. its definately worth buying though, theres just so many buttons to program you'll think why didnt you buy it earlier on.

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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 04:16 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:

- You will feel the energy of your plane because the spring tightens with speed.


RBJ is right on this one! When you dogfight you know when you are approaching stall much earlier. Amazing feeling.

I also know people who fly the FFB and the X45 Throttle.

Decisions, decisions.......

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Zayets
11-11-2003, 04:23 PM
For FB I think FF is the choice. If you happen to play Lomac or Falcon as well then X45 is yoour choice.

Zayets out

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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 05:30 PM
Well I've just upgraded my Logitech Force 3D for an X45 and can honestly say I will never go back. The X45 feels far more like a real aircraft stick (from my fairly limited experiance) and the HOTAS is just great. I found the wingman to be too floppy around the center and the forces were quite 'notchy'. On the whole I would thouroughly recommend the X45....

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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 09:11 PM
Hi! I dont know about the x 45 as I haven´t used it, I know some guys whom are very happy with it though. As for myself I use FF2 and CH pro throttle USB and its a solid combo, the durability of both the sw and CH is known to be good, I had the FF1 for 4 years before I handed over it to my son, its still working...some buttons doesn´t always respond well but anyway...
Of course there is a matter of how much you want to spend (or your wife) but if you are addicted now it will only get worse, so go for it! You can also look into complete CH setup- throttle, fighterstick and pedals..comes with great software. BTW if you havent tried it, look into some of the view tweaking software like New wiew or plus, great if you have some buttons to play around with..

S! nightnight /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif