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Rocky49
01-22-2004, 01:44 PM
I've been away from this forum for a while and may have missed this topic...but...I find that I can't slow down to land any of the a/c..I use a X45 and on final after pulling off all power I still continue along at same speed There just doesn't seem to be any drag associated with these a/c. Is this a bug related to the game or to my X45? I am using build 1.21

Rocky49

Rocky49
01-22-2004, 01:44 PM
I've been away from this forum for a while and may have missed this topic...but...I find that I can't slow down to land any of the a/c..I use a X45 and on final after pulling off all power I still continue along at same speed There just doesn't seem to be any drag associated with these a/c. Is this a bug related to the game or to my X45? I am using build 1.21

Rocky49

Heavy_Weather
01-22-2004, 01:55 PM
nope its not your stick. if you can remember in the first Il-2 it wasnt a problem. now in FB after all the patches they've modeled landings to somewhat realistic landings. now you simply have to power down the throttle, lower prop pitch all the way down, maybe even open the radiator all the way, and deploy flaps to landing. killing the engine really helps, lets say about 200 yards from the airstrip also.

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JG26Red
01-22-2004, 02:09 PM
i also found doing a few hard left and right turns will cut speed, or doing a spiral down approach works too...

buggggggged
01-22-2004, 02:10 PM
you shouldn't have to kill engine to land, backing off the throttle should provide more drag than it does I'm thinking.

Maple_Tiger
01-22-2004, 02:18 PM
Red has a good point.

Most of the time i end up doing the same thing. Some times i have to break right and left about 4 times to kill my E. Even doing a tight circle will work to.

Some guys even find the CTRL E option to be quicker lol.

DONB3397
01-22-2004, 02:18 PM
I think most of us have experienced this since 1.21 and it's still so in 1.22.

Simple solution is to fly a full landing pattern, drop down to 400m or 1600 ft. just before you enter final. Pull back the throttle, apply 30 degrees of flap, and lift the nose as you turn onto the final. The engine will back off on almost all the prop planes and set you up at a normal 650m or 2000 ft. position lined up on the runway a couple of km out. Let it settle, drop your gear at 250-300 m to slow it further, drop full flaps but keep the nose from riding up again. Flare out just over the runway. Each plane is a little different so practice it a couple of times before you take off on a mission. For some, the sink rate is fast; you'll need to get back on the gas before landing. Good luck.

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mortoma
01-22-2004, 04:08 PM
Not trying to downplay some people's techniques for landing but I'm afraid making your prop pitch coarse to help slow down is not, I repeat not, a sanctioned method for slowing down to land a plane with variable pitch or constant speed props!! Nor is it realistic in any way, shape or form. In real life, the opposite is almost always done, you go to full fine pitch, for high RPM, just in case
you have to do a "go-around", since you'd need full power quickly to be safe. This is often ignored or not required during approach in turbo props, such as a King Air, or some commuter turbo prop types. But the pitch in that case is not purposely made more coarse than normal, simply left in the "cruise" position. This is done since it's less noisy and turbine engined planes usually have so much reserve power, full fine pitch is not neccesary. It's not left in cruise pitch to help slow down or anything like that. Take it from a pilot who knows.

adlabs6
01-22-2004, 05:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Not trying to downplay some people's techniques for landing but I'm afraid making your prop pitch coarse to help slow down is not, I repeat not, a sanctioned method for slowing down to land a plane with variable pitch or constant speed props!! Nor is it realistic in any way, shape or form. In real life, the opposite is almost always done, you go to full fine pitch, for high RPM, just in case
you have to do a "go-around", since you'd need full power quickly to be safe. This is often ignored or not required during approach in turbo props, such as a King Air, or some commuter turbo prop types. But the pitch in that case is not purposely made more coarse than normal, simply left in the "cruise" position. This is done since it's less noisy and turbine engined planes usually have so much reserve power, full fine pitch is not neccesary. It's not left in cruise pitch to help slow down or anything like that. Take it from a pilot who knows.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly right. Throttle down behaviour, pitch drag, and deceleration at low throttle in recent patches is not even remotely correct. The deceleration aquired when killing the engine is more like what should be seen when a zero throttle is used.

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SpremeCommander
01-22-2004, 06:54 PM
I second that. I have resorted to flying an extra-long approach, slowly bringing the speed down, in order to avoid accelerating as I hit the glide slope. Hard turning and barrel rolls of course help, but you don't see that in real life.

LeadSpitter_
01-22-2004, 07:15 PM
Just turn off your engine magnetos and you slow down quick in everyplane, even turning your engine off in certain csp props makes you not slo down and reducing throttle does nothing or changing pitch to 0.

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psychopetey
01-22-2004, 07:40 PM
No don't turn your engine off, you still need power and you may have to have another go around. Surf online on how to land a plane , (real plane), and then put the processsto practice , you should be landing in the first third of the runway at about 10-20 KTS above stall for that A/C. As soon as I have stability I chop the throttle and keep[ the nose up and gente\ p to the tarmac.

LEXX_Luthor
01-22-2004, 07:58 PM
You can turn your engine on again before landing, just give yourself time....But don't do this in I~16 or I~153, they don't do engine restart below ~200km/hr.

Also, experiment with shutting magnetos off. I did some glide tests with Fw190Ax and engine OFF reduced glide distance by half. Magnetos off and reduce speed to below ~180km/hr and the prop stops. I...um..."forgot" how much this helped reduce glide distance, but I think it helped some.

Its weird, shut engine off and the airspeed guage just winding down real fast.

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Spinne_3.-JG51
01-22-2004, 10:07 PM
Always land in the same direction that you take-off in. While you're circling the field to get into the approach pattern, use minimal thrust, but keep your engine on. Throttle down to 0 or 1% for the final approach and land with no thrust, once you're dead-on you don't need thrust anyway. Throttle back up to 15%-25% once your wheels are stuck on the ground so that you can taxi as soon as you reach an exit on the runway. Don't pull the nose up too much to slow down, because you'll gain some height, loose too much speed and flop down onto the tarmac, loosing your laanding gear in the process. The best way to learn to land properly is to stick to the plane you fly most often, and keep practicing until you land instinctively. Use the FMB to set up a flight-practice mission (take-off -&gt; circle the field -&gt; reach a target altitude -&gt; descend -&gt; land) for your plane.

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Rocky49
01-22-2004, 11:53 PM
Well, it seems that it is not a hardware problem then...I earned a ppl and understand the proper procedure to set up and land...prior to all the patches my real world technic worked as per real life...now..well, as previously stated by others, your really don't do violent manouevers during final or shut down your engine...I believe that the a/c are no longer modeled correctly with respect to drag...or at least the modeling of thrust reduction is wrong some how...sure takes away from the enjoyment of a great mission...

Rocky49

Cajun76
01-23-2004, 06:56 AM
(The following is my technique for landing online df. Offline campaign mission will have you come in much gentler)

I almost always have to do a 180, 360, or left right, left, right type approach in the Jug. It just won't slow down if the nose is down. P-51 is almost as bad. Half the time I return to my base from high alt, and I build up a lot of excess speed on the way down. No time for fancy approaches, I do my version of a combat landing. Dive down and level out around 100-200m near or on top of the base. Speed anywhere from 600-850 or so. My usaul trick is:

Throttle to 0%, prop pitch to 0. Combat flaps and keep the nose down. Use your judgement to get into a pattern. As speed drops below 400 (usually during a turn, ideally it's the turn for final) turn prop pitch back to 100% and deploy remaining flaps and gear. you should be around 250-350 and still 200m high, if that. Bring your throttle up to 33% or so if you need a little extra to get to the runway, otherwise keep it at 0% and touch down around 180-250, prime is about 200kph.

The reason I post this is because the Jug is one of the hardest fighters to bleed speed without ending up eating the ground. Gentle manuevers, as always, and this will help you bleed excess speed quickly and safely for a feather light landing. Did I just mention 'feather light' while talking about the Jug? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

oFZo
01-23-2004, 07:02 AM
I cut power to zero a mile or so out, slow down to 250kph using turns and flaps, keep most of that speed with about 20% power and land her at 190kph. (He-111 online)

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Rajvosa
01-23-2004, 07:05 AM
Cut the power, flaps down, gear down. Even sideslip if necessary. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif



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Cajun76
01-23-2004, 07:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rajvosa:
Cut the power, flaps down, gear down. Even sideslip if necessary. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif You seem a bit pi$$ed off, there, Rajvosa. Whassup? (If I used your posted technique under the conditions I described, I'd have to start at least 3km away from the near end of the runway, and risk ripping my gear off and jamming my flaps.)

Good hunting,
Cajun76

ELEM
01-23-2004, 07:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rajvosa:
Cut the power, flaps down, gear down. Even sideslip if necessary.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's right. Side slipping is the best method of loosing altitude fast without gaining airspeed. With throttle closed of course.

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CRSutton
01-23-2004, 07:25 AM
As a novice pilot, I had the same problem with the new patch. With the ME109 it was like trying to land on a patch of ice. It just shot off the end of the runway. There is some good advice here. The only thing that I can add is that is a good idea to learn to fly your crate at low speed. That is, take some time and experiment with your plane by flying around the field as slow as you can. Experiement with your flaps and gear down as well. Of course there is a lot of difference with planes. But once you are confident about flying just above stall speeds, you will feel more confident about landing. To put it simply, I was coming in too fast. Now, I am coming in just above stall speed and putting it down fairly decent.

Rajvosa
01-23-2004, 07:25 AM
He he, I'm not pissed off (on), I just used the wrong smiley! I also put those things in unsorted order. First I'd sideslip, then lower gear, than flaps, of course. Or something http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Or maybe I'd just switch my anti gravity field and softly touch the ground.



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SpinSpinSugar
01-23-2004, 07:25 AM
Well dunno about you folks but I find it more realistic now, energy retention seems more accurate and it takes time to slow down a fast aircraft, that's just physics. As someone said above, there's more need now to fly a proper landing pattern with flaps, you can't just come barreling in at 400mph and slam the brakes on just before the runway. I guess this doesn't suit quick points hounds on DF servers but in most other situations it adds to the immersion.

Just my tuppence,

Cheers, SSS

michapma
01-23-2004, 07:31 AM
Rocky, depending on your plane type something you might not have learned with the ppl is that gear extension speed is usually higher than flap extension. I extend gear once below 300kph to help me slow down, then flaps after gear are extended.

When I want to land I make a distinction between descent and approach. I descend by powering back and if necessary (that is, if I don't have much time), nosing down. Even on a straight-in approach, where I am already lined up after descent, I shift thinking to setting up the approach. Once I am at an altitude of less than 600m above the runway I look to reduce my speed to approach speed. If I am too fast I go around and maintain alt, if in a dogfight I may resort to hard turns. Once in position to begin final, I extend gear and flaps and settle into final at the appropriate speed, usually around 180kph. Once at the appropriate approach speed your real-life procedures will work and you can even perform a proper 3-point landing!

Yes, I agree that the planes lose speed too slowly when power is removed. I don't like it either.

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ericson
01-24-2004, 04:28 AM
Some of the planes respond well to side slipping. This can be useful for rubbing off speed and altitude. Ericson.