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XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 01:10 AM
Ok, now that I have lit the flame under some people, i would like to ask for opinions. I want to start flying the LW aircraft and would like to know which a/c is best to learn on. I have an X45 joystick and throttle and have already assigned buttons to prop pitch ad mix. I would like to learn a fairly challenging plane so as to get satisfaction from accomplishing the learning of the airplane.

One of the American aircraft I want to learn is the P-47 so I can learn to boom and zoom, and I happen to like the P-47.

Opinions? Not flames please as I have no water to put them out in drought ridden Colorado.

Thanks

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 01:10 AM
Ok, now that I have lit the flame under some people, i would like to ask for opinions. I want to start flying the LW aircraft and would like to know which a/c is best to learn on. I have an X45 joystick and throttle and have already assigned buttons to prop pitch ad mix. I would like to learn a fairly challenging plane so as to get satisfaction from accomplishing the learning of the airplane.

One of the American aircraft I want to learn is the P-47 so I can learn to boom and zoom, and I happen to like the P-47.

Opinions? Not flames please as I have no water to put them out in drought ridden Colorado.

Thanks

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 01:44 AM
Naaaw,LW airplaines aren`t challenging really but if I`d have to pick I`d choose Me109F2 and G6`43early.

The first has pea shooters,you have to be a hot shot to down anything without wasting all ammo.

The second one is inferior to most VVS planes in `43.If you want to make it more challenging you pick MG151/20 instead of MK108.


I didin`t mention FW190 cuz in a week it will be a n00b plane.

The most challenging plane in FB is currently P47.It`s even worse than Me109G6`43.

P40 is also stall`o drone

"degustibus non disputandum"

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XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 02:29 AM
I disagree that in a week the FW-190 will be a noob plane after the patch. It will still have poor visibility (making deflection shooting very difficult), you will still be out-turned by almost everything (except maybe P-47), and you will still have relatively poor climb. The A-4 in '42 isn't that good, the A-5 in '43 is good but has to be flown right and is out-performed by the La-5FN, and the Dora will be very good in '44, but I prefer the A-9(R2).

If you want to learn BnZ I recommend the 109 series, if you want to learn hit and run and anticipate using team tactics, go for the 190. To be honest I think the P-47 is a great choice for you, but only after the patch. The only thing you will miss out on in the P-47 is developing your gunnery as the 8 .50's have a sizeable spread and makes shooting for specific areas of a plane near impossible. Still, if you like the P-47, go for it. After the patch it will likely be a very capable plane, especially if you put the time in and fly it to it's strengths. One thing to consider though is that the P-47, like the 190, is not a very good 1 vs. 1 plane but is awesome when used as a team. Offline, the 190 is king because you have wingmen and all you need to do is pounce on any pursuer.

Good luck.

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XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 05:14 AM
I am still surprised that the FW190 is'nt a better a/c in this sim, and nicer to fly. I say this because the impression I got from RAF wartime pilots is that this a/c ruled the skies for a long time, and kicked a$$ in so many ways.

In this sim (to me anyway) it appears quite limited. Yes, I know you have to fly it to it's strengths (B+Z etc.), but I still feel it has more weaknesses than strengths.

BobTuck.

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 06:35 AM
I won't call the Dora after the patch a noob plane, because of the high speed stall. It should be an effective plane though. It climbs with the La7. this is only the beta patch, so things may change in the final.

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XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 07:04 AM
carguy_ wrote:
-
- I didin`t mention FW190 cuz in a week it will be a
- n00b plane.
-

LOL FW190 NOOB I GOTA SEE THAT

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XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 09:40 AM
Locust_161st wrote:
-
---
-
- LOL FW190 NOOB I GOTA SEE THAT
-


well if you play other sims, you see what he meant.. (like EAW, 190 is the n00b-plane /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif However not in FB, no matter what they do to its FM, they still ain't going to change that crappy forward gunsight view.. that will prevent it from becoming a n00b-plane /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 12:41 PM
carguv how can you say luftwaffe planes are not challenging? for a start all the 109's can outclimb just about every other equivelant year vvs plane ,flown correctly the 262 can be awesome. If the flight managements and weapons modelling in this game were as was in real life the vvs fans would not be happy......



Message Edited on 08/02/0311:43AM by johno__UK

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 12:55 PM
johno__UK wrote:
- carguv how can you say luftwaffe planes are not
- challenging? for a start all the 109's can outclimb
- just about every other equivelant year vvs plane
- ,flown correctly the 262 can be awesome. If the
- flight managements and weapons modelling in this
- game were as was in real life the vvs fans would not
- be happy......


I don`t get it mate.You wrote that LW planes if flown correctly can down anything from VVS and they`re supposed to be challenging?

I still have the impression from IL2.I`m just being nostalgic about the old FM.Now LW planes are a wonder to fly.


"degustibus non disputandum"

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<center>"Weder Tod noch Teufel!"</font>[/B]</center> (http://www.jzg23.de>[B]<font)

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 01:09 PM
It maybe just me but i just get the impresion that the luftwaffe aircraft effectiveness will always be played down a little in this game compared to vvs planes, only time will tell....But it dosnt mean they cant be used effectively at all hopefuly the patch will fix the problems anyway.....

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 02:03 PM
If you want a relatively "challenging" aircraft model to start with, choose the Bf-109 E, as it´s variable pitch propeller features no automatic control, so you need to constantly work your keys/buttons while having an eye on the RPM and airspeed indicator if playing with "engine management" enabled.

The Bf-109 F models on the other hand are the easiest german AC to handle in the current FB build imo, preferably the F4 as it has an MG151/20 (20mm) instead of an MG151/15 (15mm), while also being a bit faster than the F-2. The F models can also perform in angles tactics against anything but the more sophisticated VVS turn&burn AC.

Bf-109 G models require strict energy tactics, don´t let yourself be lured into a turning fight with VVS fighter aircraft.

General advantages of all BF-109´s are rate of climb.

FW-190´s in the unpatched FB are quite odd in their handling, contrary to everything i read about it.
Eric Brown who was a british test pilot during and after WW2 flew many important german and allied AC in different versions, the FW-190´s he flew he described as having greatly tuned and harmonized controls, quite the opposite he stated about the ME-109´s, which he regarded as more difficult to fly and generally inferior to the FW-190, especially in regards to stability and controllability at higher speeds.

If you want a more simplistic flightexperience, go for soviet AC, as they are most forgiving to steering inputs and can be yanked all over the screen while generally flying like on rails, EM can also be totally neglected.

============================
When it comes to testing new aircraft or determining maximum performance, pilots like to talk about "pushing the envelope." They're talking about a two dimensional model: the bottom is zero altitude, the ground; the left is zero speed; the top is max altitude; and the right, maximum velocity, of course. So, the pilots are pushing that upper-right-hand corner of the envelope. What everybody tries not to dwell on is that that's where the postage gets canceled, too.

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 02:20 PM
phantom482_FA wrote:
- Ok, now that I have lit the flame under some people,
- i would like to ask for opinions. I want to start
- flying the LW aircraft and would like to know which
- a/c is best to learn on. I have an X45 joystick and
- throttle and have already assigned buttons to prop
- pitch ad mix. I would like to learn a fairly
- challenging plane so as to get satisfaction from
- accomplishing the learning of the airplane.
-
- One of the American aircraft I want to learn is the
- P-47 so I can learn to boom and zoom, and I happen
- to like the P-47.
-
- Opinions? Not flames please as I have no water to
- put them out in drought ridden Colorado.
-
- Thanks
-
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I cant agree with those who says that German planes are "noobplanes" ( easy to fly and suited for beginners)

some just use the word "noob" as a negative thing when they dont like a particular plane.( it cuold be bad paintjob)


I dont recomend fw190 to begin with bcause of the poor visibility and because its a clean b n'z plane ( turns bleed speed)

109e and f2 has best visibility and tunrate of the 109's.
109 K4 is the fastest.

The difference betweeen 109 g2 and g6 is mainly better machineguns and stronger undercarriage and bigger wheels in g6,engine is the same. And later a better engine and the galland hood.



The 109 is best used as a B n' Z plane but can do fairly good turns initially.

My opinion is that the bad visibility fools beginners to make turns a bit too hard because they cant find ( see) the enemy and then their speed is gone. infact an enemy plane at 3-400 m distance can do all kinds of manouvers behind the cockpitbars of Lw planes and seem to dissapear
in thin air. Most experienced LW's know that if they keep speed up no 1 can catch them especially not a foe that has perfomed hars manouvers( = energy gone)

I personally would go for the 109 first. I chose it in the beginning only because it was an appeeling design (he!)/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Why not share your "LW beginnig" experience and give u'r opinion of the 109 and FW to others in an own post or why not add a few lines in the post "(NO)O.b's Help to online flying!!!"

here is the link and Happy flying!

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zbzsf

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 05:38 PM
Oak_Groove


I don't belive using the F4 against the late VVS planes is easy at all. It does nothing better than a Yak3, and can't take as much damage for sure.

Also I see no difference between using manual pitch in all the 109's over the 109E.

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XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 07:11 PM
I fly Lw planes the most, and i think they are a wonder to fly too, if flown right

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 07:31 PM
I think I have had every type of plane be my favorite at one time or another, I'm just glad I settled on the 190. My final decision was based on what plane moved me and what plane has all the characteristics I want in a fighter plane, the 190 was the clear winner. I like fighter bomber stuff and flying at medium/low altitudes. I wanted a plane that was tough, had good firepower, was fast, and could escape/survive, again the 190 was it. Whenever I fly something else now it just feels weak, except maybe the P-47, she is definitely a brute.

My advice is try all of them, one of the planes should grab you and you will know it is your favorite. I'm waiting for the Spitfire and Tempest, but who knows, when they are released I may find myself unwilling to give up my Focke-Wulf. The A-9(R2) is easily my favorite. Keep the throttle pinned, don't make any hard maneuvers, hit with one of your two Mk-108's, do a victory roll. I really like the A-5 as well, I just wish removing the wing cannons actually helped instead of throwing on an empty bomb-rack which slows you down. Why would anybody take this? Same with the 20mm only option on the A-4, it just slows you down so why take it?

Oh, and don't buy into any of that "noob" plane BS, fly what you like. This is a list of planes that were "noob" planes at one time or another: I-16, Hurricane IIc, La-5FN, La-7, any late 109, Yak-3, Yak-9T, P-39, and I am sure I probably missed one or two. I guess we should all fly Mig-3's so its fair, just not the Mig-3U because that is a noob plane too.

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XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 07:54 PM
- I don't belive using the F4 against the late VVS
- planes is easy at all. It does nothing better than a
- Yak3, and can't take as much damage for sure.

Noone implied to expect results by using an early war fighter against an later generation enemy fighter, not in a computergame anyway. The F-4 is just the easiest to fly out of the 109 bunch imo, therefore well suited for starters. In it´s timeframe 1941-1942 it is pretty much capable of mixing it up with any opponent. The Yak-3 is 1943, staying in the 1941 timeframe the F-4´s natural opponents would be the YAK-1 or YAK-7 out of the YAK family. Apart from that the YAK-3 is pretty much an ueber dogfighter ingame, that will give problems for almost all german fighter AC.

- Also I see no difference between using manual pitch
- in all the 109's over the 109E.

Difference is in the E models you -must- use manual prop pitch, while in later models it´s an option to override the automatic pitch. Many starters will be tempted not to use prop pitch at all on later 109´s, because it´s more comfortable, especially during engegements, in the E-model there is no choice.

============================
When it comes to testing new aircraft or determining maximum performance, pilots like to talk about "pushing the envelope." They're talking about a two dimensional model: the bottom is zero altitude, the ground; the left is zero speed; the top is max altitude; and the right, maximum velocity, of course. So, the pilots are pushing that upper-right-hand corner of the envelope. What everybody tries not to dwell on is that that's where the postage gets canceled, too.

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 07:54 PM
kyrule2 wrote:
- Oh, and don't buy into any of that "noob" plane BS,
- fly what you like. This is a list of planes that
- were "noob" planes at one time or another: I-16,
- Hurricane IIc, La-5FN, La-7, any late 109, Yak-3,
- Yak-9T, P-39, and I am sure I probably missed one or
- two. I guess we should all fly Mig-3's so its fair,
- just not the Mig-3U because that is a noob plane
- too.

Very well put, kyrule. Ever since FB came out this has been my feeling.

But in IL-2 times La-5FN was definitely gay.


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XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 08:39 PM
first of all you need to practise your gunnery skills.. since im sure you will be surprised how tough it is to down VVS-planes as they take generally MUCH more punishment than the 109.. Where one or two burst is enough to down a 109, Yaks need atleast 10 MG151/20 hits generally, unless you get a lucky shot to wings, or pilot kill (which is not that common)..

My advice is wait for the patch, and then start to play LW /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif since LW-guns should become more effective..

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XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 09:21 PM
Try the Dora and the K-4.
The Dora is challenging and fun if flown correctly, the K-4 is huge in the climb.
Climb is very important and all 109s are kings in that.
There are no newbie German a/c but any noob wanting to fly German only needs to be flying a 109.



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XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 12:22 AM
Whats the secret with the Dora? Or some of the other FW-190 varients. I've been trying to do 4 VS 4 quick missions with most planes and the only aircraft that I really have the worst luck with is the FW-190. I don't get it...its got this awesome role rate, its got a powerful engine and armament, but I can't down a single Yak or LaGG's or La's. It seems to turn very slowly and stall quicker than anything else...this was the plane that the British feared and geared their Spitfire upgrades after. I guess it needs a bit o tweaking yet. Visibility I can live with, after all...WWII planes weren't comfortable places to be.