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Mr.Black24
04-29-2015, 03:52 AM
So I read for the new Call of Duty game that:

Black Ops 3’s protagonist is customizable, including gender.

For the first time in the franchise’s history, the campaign’s protagonist is fully customizable. In addition to upgrading abilities, changing your character’s appearance and tweaking weapons, players can pick the gender of their Call of Duty hero. “It’s not just a female head on a male body. It’s a different set of animations for the entire game,” Lamia says. Character interaction will even differ based on the protagonist’s gender. “We knew we were going to do fully unique male, fully unique female for all scenes and all the customization that goes for both. Thank God for Blu-ray, right?” Campaign Director and Senior Executive Producer Jason Blundell jokes, adding the game’s protagonist is fully voiced regardless of gender.

Here is the links for the news: http://galaxynextdoor.com/post/117470032903/black-ops-3s-protagonist-is-customizabl (http://galaxynextdoor.com/post/117470032903/black-ops-3s-protagonist-is-customizable)e

(http://www.engadget.com/2015/04/26/call-of-duty-black-ops-3/)
http://www.engadget.com/2015/04/26/call-of-duty-black-ops-3/


I actually praise COD this time for doing something new for their franchise, something different that what they used to do. It could have been done for a Unity multiplayer, instead of that crap "everyone is Arno" reason. Hopefully Victory can do something like this for the multiplayer side, or better yet, just have a female protagonist.

See Ubisoft, it can be done!

I-Like-Pie45
04-29-2015, 05:00 AM
I bet that the mlg 360noscope pro 12 year olds who play multiplayer are gonna love this

Sorrosyss
04-29-2015, 05:19 PM
I applaud them for going the extra mile with this. We need more female gamers, and having options like this just opens up many more fans to a franchise. It is one of the reasons that both Dragon Age and Mass Effect are so popular. Being able to customise your story in this way just adds another layer of immersion for me, and as much as I love the AC story telling, I can't help but think such a change would add so much to the fanbase retention. It needs to go beyond just multiplayer though. Let us be the modern protagonist, and our character face be that of the Templar/Assassin ancestor. That would be awesome.

Markaccus
04-29-2015, 05:27 PM
I think this is great. In the modern world there is no reason at all why this should not be.

However.......

During the AC time periods and settings we have had so far, a female lead is going to be MOSTLY seen as unrealistic historically (i personally have no problem though)

Just a thought.

I will add to clarify, i would be just as happy with a female lead. Last time something like this was discussed it got all blamey-biggoty :D

Farlander1991
04-29-2015, 07:31 PM
It could have been done for a Unity multiplayer, instead of that crap "everyone is Arno" reason.

You do realize that everybody would've been Arno on their end regardless if there'd be female avatars for other players or not?

SixKeys
04-29-2015, 07:51 PM
You do realize that everybody would've been Arno on their end regardless if there'd be female avatars for other players or not?

Only because they chose to do it that way. They could have gone with a more traditional co-op set-up where you have a set of four characters (2 male, 2 female) and the player gets to choose between them. This would have made the most sense to me, especially since I expected classes to play a bigger part - that balance of needing a Heavy, Spy, Medic and Agile.

Sushiglutton
04-29-2015, 08:20 PM
I would love to have a female protagonist, but I don't think the option to choose makes any sense at all for AC. It's easier to switch gender for a generic soldier. The leads in AC have way more personality, which is a good thing imo.

Farlander1991
04-29-2015, 08:29 PM
Only because they chose to do it that way. They could have gone with a more traditional co-op set-up where you have a set of four characters (2 male, 2 female) and the player gets to choose between them. This would have made the most sense to me, especially since I expected classes to play a bigger part - that balance of needing a Heavy, Spy, Medic and Agile.

Yes, they chose to do it that way. But they chose to do it for a reason, which I personally agree with. A more traditional co-op set-up would make sense to me if the co-op would be traditionally separate from the main single-player story-driven experience.

However, I did think that other Assassins would be actual characters from the story, and our friends would just 'embody' them (while still being Arno on their end, of course), and I think that would make sense with the approach they chose. Random assassins are kinda, eh.

Altair1789
04-29-2015, 08:38 PM
I don't know about ever getting a non-realtime AC game where you can pick gender. Maybe (hopefully) Victory will remove single player mission customization and just make co op a completely different game mode. You can still do freerunning in the main city, but you won't be playing as the same person in a different outfit, you'll choose boy/girl, maybe facial features, and outfits. That would be nice

SixKeys
04-29-2015, 10:42 PM
Yes, they chose to do it that way. But they chose to do it for a reason, which I personally agree with. A more traditional co-op set-up would make sense to me if the co-op would be traditionally separate from the main single-player story-driven experience.

However, I did think that other Assassins would be actual characters from the story, and our friends would just 'embody' them (while still being Arno on their end, of course), and I think that would make sense with the approach they chose. Random assassins are kinda, eh.

The way they did the co-op in Unity, it was separate from the main story, so that's no excuse. It would have made sense if the missions were tied to the narrative and each of Arno's friends had names and (potentially) personalities, as you suggested. What we got was Bishop constantly talking to us, reminding us that it's all a simulation and those other assassins were just other players. If it's that separated from the story, why not go all the way and allow us to choose our character, like in the old MP?

Altair1789
04-29-2015, 11:58 PM
^ You're right, they really should've just made 4 completely different co op characters with their own stories and personalities. They could've added real cutscenes too

Farlander1991
04-30-2015, 12:07 AM
What we got was Bishop constantly talking to us, reminding us that it's all a simulation and those other assassins were just other players.

This is true, there's also the fact that it's impossible for Arno to participate in half of the co-op missions for timeline reasons. Though I believe that while timeline conflicts are clearly an oversight, the Bishop training simulation wrapper for co-op looks more like a forced (most likely due to time constraints, Unity has 'we didn't do everything we wanted to do' written all over it) crutch. Not a last-minute one, mind you, but a crutch nonetheless. Though that's just my theory. Still, there's the fact that we play as Arno, liberating zones, completing side quests, getting money to get equipment which for some reason would be used by a totally separate random character we know nothing about? And then as a reward get items for Arno? You might argue, of course, that it doesn't HAVE to be this way, that there might be another loop, and of course that's true, but the developers chose to base the gameplay loop around customization and progression of your main character. And while co-op, narratively wise, is somewhat disjointed from the rest of the narrative, it's still part of that gameplay loop.

Basically, the game, and this principle is clearly something chosen very early in development since everything is based around it in some way, is about a single customizable character with a progression system, a character that you evolve and adapt to your playstyle. You go play a couple story missions, do some side-quests, get invited by a friend for a co-op session on the way to next mission, get some loot there that allows to customize your character that will make easier to deal with guards of a higher level, so you get to explore new areas and do more missions and then continue the story in those higher difficulty areas, all as one evolving progressing entity. Having a separate entity would break that principle that we're talking about here. The developers chose the gameplay loop as a priority.

(Btw, interesting note, Dead Kings co-op missions aren't part of the Bishop training simulation wrapper)


If it's that separated from the story, why not go all the way and allow us to choose our character, like in the old MP?

Regarding this, I'll be quite short and vague and say that the formulation of the question 'why not' overly simplifies things and that I can list quite a few reasons why. Some of them were already mentioned, then there's others like one of them being that production realities of Unity co-op and old MP (even the original Brotherhood MP) are different and not comparable directly. However, I'm a bit too burnt out on extensive conversations, plus it's late at night and I want to sleep :D So excuse me that I leave it at this vague note.

LoyalACFan
04-30-2015, 02:51 AM
I love how everyone is suddenly jumping on COD's jock like this is something super new and innovative. Let me qualify this by saying that I think Unity's "seamless" co-op was a lame idea anyway (and one that was rendered moot since you had to wait through an ungodly loading screen every time you booted up a mission) and traditional character select would have been eons better, but just saying "COD did it, why can't AC?" is absurd. Do you realize how few character animations COD (or any FPS game, really) has compared to AC? Next time you're playing COD online, take a look at just how inferior the character animations are on your teammates/opponents compared to Arno. It's not even remotely comparable. Not to belittle the effort of COD's devs; FPS games don't need great animations, truth be told, so not a lot of focus is put on it. Plus there's the issue of remodeling every piece of clothing in the game to fit a female avatar. This sh*t takes DAYS, people. If they were trying to make it seamless to where you go from your Arno story straight into co-op so it all felt like a connected experience, well, then you're always going to be Arno on your screen, period. Putting in a bunch of work hours just for hollow skins to show up on your co-op buddies just isn't worth the effort, especially if they're just going to be random Assassins with no backstory or character whatsoever.

So yeah, this isn't COD being innovative or forward-thinking, it's just them saying "hey, Ubisoft is gunning hard to claim our place as the most hated AAA publisher in the world, so let's take one of Ubi's most publicized screwups and make it look like we'd never dream of doing anything of the sort."

SixKeys
04-30-2015, 03:42 AM
To be fair, I believe CoD announced playable female characters before the whole uproar about Unity being a sausage fest happened.

LoyalACFan
04-30-2015, 06:08 AM
To be fair, I believe CoD announced playable female characters before the whole uproar about Unity being a sausage fest happened.

But they just announced it...? I don't think they had female avatars in the last one (though in fairness I only played it for about half an hour)

phoenix-force411
04-30-2015, 06:29 AM
I applaud them for going the extra mile with this. We need more female gamers, and having options like this just opens up many more fans to a franchise. It is one of the reasons that both Dragon Age and Mass Effect are so popular. Being able to customise your story in this way just adds another layer of immersion for me, and as much as I love the AC story telling, I can't help but think such a change would add so much to the fanbase retention. It needs to go beyond just multiplayer though. Let us be the modern protagonist, and our character face be that of the Templar/Assassin ancestor. That would be awesome.

But you are talking about RPGs, and RPGs can either allow gender options or not. AC is action adventure, and it always has a set protagonist for the player. Co-op missions in AC Unity are still part of Arno's memories and it would be immersion breaking even more if you could choose gender. If Ubi offered a Multiplayer mode where it would not be tied to the ancestor's life, then it would make more sense just like how the traditional multiplayer was, but those MP characters were merely avatars of the actual person within the Assassin's Creed Universe.

The_Kiwi_
04-30-2015, 09:30 AM
Only because they chose to do it that way. They could have gone with a more traditional co-op set-up where you have a set of four characters (2 male, 2 female) and the player gets to choose between them. This would have made the most sense to me, especially since I expected classes to play a bigger part - that balance of needing a Heavy, Spy, Medic and Agile.

That doesn't make sense at all
If you're choosing a different character to play as in co-op, how could you be reliving Arno's memories?
And, you're customising Arno, so having Arno's customisations carry over to this new character would be illogical
In summation, you're customising Arno and you are reliving his memories, therefore it makes total sense to be Arno in co-op

------

To the main point, AC is about reliving memories, it's not an RPG/Sandbox game with your own character
The gender of the protagonist should not be customisable
It should either be male or female

And IMO, why should it matter?
Can't we just look at protagonists as people and not men and women?
Demanding/requesting a certain gender for a character is what is really sexist
This should never have to be an issue


But they just announced it...? I don't think they had female avatars in the last one (though in fairness I only played it for about half an hour)

In Ghosts and Advanced Warfare, you could play as a completely customisable character in multiplayer, which makes sense because the character doesn't have a story/narrative
Black Ops 3 is the first CoD game where you can play as a woman in the campaign, so you're technically both right

Sorrosyss
04-30-2015, 11:34 AM
It is not just RPGS, but the gaming market as a whole that is adjusting. I mean if you look at some of the major games at the moment; Bloodborne, GTA Online, Witcher 3, the next Call of Duty, and Battlefront - they are all adding playable females. For reasons that should be obvious, I prefer to play as a female character. I don't see the story of Mass Effect for example, is lessened in any way by your gender selection. Ubisoft could do the same here, and looking at the industry they are behind on this.

Having said that, they did themselves no favours with their design choice on Unity. Through their choice to enforce our role as Arno in the Co-op we only could have males. What angered so many, was the excuses about how difficult women would be to animate. It was a poor explanation, and the media rightly called them out - especially when we had multiple female characters in all the previous games' multiplayer modes, and we had Elise - who was already uniquely animated.

So whilst I am praising Activision in this instance, it really is more of a shift in the industry that I, and many female gamers are pleased to see. Frankly, I expect Ubisoft to learn from this going forwards. It's down to them to make this kind of customisation work, and we all know they are more than capable.

Markaccus
04-30-2015, 11:52 AM
Tell you lot one thing, though.... the CoD Multiplayer forums will be in uproar with lots of 14 yo boys giving sexist rage-rants, not only because they got owned by a female player (apparently women are not allowed to be good at FPS's) but because the character also LOOKS like a woman.

This is down to the general AWFULNESS of the CoD community (not all but most). They are horrible.

The_Kiwi_
04-30-2015, 12:08 PM
I'm pretty sure lass is used everywhere... :rolleyes:
It's not just a northern UK thing

@Sorrosyss
Those games you listed are either multiplayer games or RPGs, so your entire argument is invalid
That's like saying "socks look good with Adidas sneakers, as well as Nike sneakers, therefore they'll look good with sandals", but they don't
Stop comparing apples with oranges
Assassin's Creed is nothing like Witcher, Bloodborne, GTA or Call of Duty
Being able to choose gender for your character in AC is probably the worst thing Ubisoft could do to the franchise

Farlander1991
04-30-2015, 12:37 PM
What angered so many, was the excuses about how difficult women would be to animate. It was a poor explanation, and the media rightly called them out - especially when we had multiple female characters in all the previous games' multiplayer modes, and we had Elise - who was already uniquely animated.

Ubi representatives chose had a very poor choice of words (though I don't think they actually said that women are difficult to animate, that's a misinterpretation the media gave the words, they said about the difficulties of putting in everything required for proper female avatar representations in the allocated time frame - but they could handle it in a better way).

Here's the thing about female characters in multiplayer modes:
a) All male animations were already created beforehand
b) Only female animations had to be created (which were male animations re-adapted to female skeleton)
c) Only parkour animations had to be created, there was no combat or stuff like that. Everyone had unique kill animations which don't require anything to be dynamic.
d) Customization was very limited: each character had a set of a couple outfit updates just for that character, and usually those were just little parts of the whole outfit (so not everything was changed, and you might notice that full skin changes are very rare in AC multiplayer).
e) Point b and half of point c is not taken into account in multiplayer modes for later games as stuff is reused.

Now, regarding Unity. Yes, Elise has a set of her own animations.
Does she have all the parkour animations that would make her body parts touch the correct parts of the environment? (her skeleton is different, just applying Arno's animation won't work, extra work has to be done) No.
Does she have all the crouching and stealth animations? No.
Does she have animations for hidden blade, spears, bludgeons, two-handed swords? No. (though, to be fair, that would be easier to adapt)
Does she have all the customization outfits adapted to her model? No.
That's all that would have to be done for the character (simply applying male animations to a female skeleton would look ****ty, you can look at Arno in female disguise skill for that... and I'm actually surprised that the person who said 'just apply animations to a different skeleton' was the AC3 animation director... but then again, it's the same person who said that they just applied half of Connor's animations to Aveline in Liberation, and those are precisely the animations that look crappy on her, so.... yeah... on the other hand, I suspect that the 'look crappy' is something that's noticeable only in the HD version, it probably looks fine on the small Vita screen)

Now, I'm not saying 'ooooh, it's hard' or 'Ubi can't do it even if they want to' - because they could if they did want to (if it would've been a game like Mass Effect, for example, where you choose your gender from the start). However their approach to co-op, met with the production realities, makes it hard to justify manpower and budget allocation for this. And, mind you, same production realities would exist if the main character of the game would've been female - it would be too much work to make all the male animations as pretty much all animations are new in the game, so there's no base for anything. The fact WHY the main character is not female is a different matter and point of discussion entirely, I personally really wouldn't mind having more female main characters in the AC series.

Ultimately, purely the existence of female co-op partners wouldn't change anything in Unity and wouldn't fix any of its problems. But now that Unity is out there, there's less justification for not creating female animations for future games, as the situation would become similar to the situation I outlined on top with multiplayer (though still it would be more work than for multiplayer).

Markaccus
04-30-2015, 12:56 PM
I'm pretty sure lass is used everywhere... :rolleyes:
It's not just a northern UK thing

Yeah it is used in many places, but it did originate in Northern UK dialects, then we spread out :D I was just wary of using it because some people can take it the wrong way, and this being the internet, it's easy to offend, even if you don't mean it.

Sorrosyss
04-30-2015, 01:04 PM
Being able to choose gender for your character in AC is probably the worst thing Ubisoft could do to the franchise

Well, that's your viewpoint, and I respect that. I see otherwise, and I'd hardly call my argument invalid. They are different genres sure, but they are highlighting a feature that I would like to see, as a long term AC player. I am merely adding my enthusiasm and support for such a feature.

In the end though, Ubisoft mentioned future series ideas in the survey that was sent to players who purchased Unity. It specifically mentioned customisation options and the ability to play as a female, so we do know it is something they are considering. I can say no more other than I leave it to the survey results, and to Ubisoft's judgement if it is what the consumers want.

Markaccus
04-30-2015, 01:22 PM
I'm pretty sure lass is used everywhere... :rolleyes:
It's not just a northern UK thing

@Sorrosyss
Those games you listed are either multiplayer games or RPGs, so your entire argument is invalid
That's like saying "socks look good with Adidas sneakers, as well as Nike sneakers, therefore they'll look good with sandals", but they don't
Stop comparing apples with oranges
Assassin's Creed is nothing like Witcher, Bloodborne, GTA or Call of Duty
Being able to choose gender for your character in AC is probably the worst thing Ubisoft could do to the franchise


Well, that's your viewpoint, and I respect that. I see otherwise, and I'd hardly call my argument invalid. They are different genres sure, but they are highlighting a feature that I would like to see, as a long term AC player. I am merely adding my enthusiasm and support for such a feature.

In the end though, Ubisoft mentioned future series ideas in the survey that was sent to players who purchased Unity. It specifically mentioned customisation options and the ability to play as a female, so we do know it is something they are considering. I can say no more other than I leave it to the survey results, and to Ubisoft's judgement if it is what the consumers want.

In my opinion, you both have valid points, just to stick my oar in, here..

In Multiplayer, there is NO REASON AT ALL that we should not be able to choose the gender or race of our assassin/templar. yes there may be difficulties, but to keep it simple they could just have two sets of basic animations (one M one F) and just appearance customisable.

In single player, because we are always reliving memories of a set ancestor, then we should be fixed to that person, no matter what. There is still NO REASON why it can't be a woman (if they can find a way round the attitude towards strong women in those days) but we should not be able to chose.

Just my opinion, though.

The_Kiwi_
04-30-2015, 01:35 PM
Saying that choosing your gender in the campaign is a good idea just makes you look silly (no offence)
It completely contradicts the animus and lore of the series
It's totally game breaking
Any fan of the series could see that

Shahkulu101
04-30-2015, 02:13 PM
The way co-op works in Unity, being able to choose your gender and NOT play as Arno wouldn't make sense. They're supposed to be his memories your reliving for a start, you unlock gear for him during co-op so if you were using some other character that would be impossible unless you unlocked the gear for Arno while playing as someone else...which would be stupid. In short, the single player and co-op are connected - a character selection would contradict that. Yes they could have had a separate mode (which I would prefer) but people knew this before launch and still complained. Obviously Amancio didn't help with his misguided comments, but people picked up the pitchforks without looking at the facts and completely battered Ubisoft. And because it was a righteous cause they were defending - female characters in games - the ignorance and sensationalism surrounding the situation was wholly accepted.

Xstantin
04-30-2015, 02:47 PM
Separate mode for coop would be perfect imo, since everyone would be happy with their choices. Unity's coop was almost a separate thing anyway given how missions were just there on the map without any chronological order related to the story.

m4r-k7
04-30-2015, 02:54 PM
To be completely honest, there are more important things other than gender that we need to worry about in this franchise.

IMO I don't care what gender the character is, as long as its a good story and is handled well. In terms of Unity I don't know why everyone was upset considering that everyone is Arno in their game anyway. If you could create a character and the female gender wasn't an option then that would be offensive.

Markaccus
04-30-2015, 02:58 PM
The way co-op works in Unity, being able to choose your gender and NOT play as Arno wouldn't make sense. They're supposed to be his memories your reliving for a start, you unlock gear for him during co-op so if you were using some other character that would be impossible unless you unlocked the gear for Arno while playing as someone else...which would be stupid. In short, the single player and co-op are connected - a character selection would contradict that. Yes they could have had a separate mode (which I would prefer) but people knew this before launch and still complained. Obviously Amancio didn't help with his misguided comments, but people picked up the pitchforks without looking at the facts and completely battered Ubisoft. And because it was a righteous cause they were defending - female characters in games - the ignorance and sensationalism surrounding the situation was wholly accepted.

I have to disagree on this one.. I don't think it matters who earns the armour for Arno or whoever the character will be next time. There could simply be a male and female version of each peice. this is just graphics really. That way you would have the character you wanted during co-op and MP, and any armour gained is there for when you go back to SP.

Shahkulu101
04-30-2015, 03:13 PM
I have to disagree on this one.. I don't think it matters who earns the armour for Arno or whoever the character will be next time. There could simply be a male and female version of each peice. this is just graphics really. That way you would have the character you wanted during co-op and MP, and any armour gained is there for when you go back to SP.

Well how does that make sense really? Would the random Assassin just pass on the gear to Arno? It would be really messy narrative-wise IMO and kind of break immersion. Unity is focused on progression being linked to everything Arno does, including co-op. Playing as someone else to unlock gear would mess up that feeling. And your right, there could be a female version of each piece, but since we're always playing as Arno and the other characters are just unplayable skins creating them would be a waste of time. Had it been a female, it would have been the opposite way - the avatars would be female and only female gear and animations would have been created for co-op.

Markaccus
04-30-2015, 03:23 PM
Well how does that make sense really? Would the random Assassin just pass on the gear to Arno? It would be really messy narrative-wise IMO and kind of break immersion. Unity is focused on progression being linked to everything Arno does, including co-op. Playing as someone else to unlock gear would mess up that feeling. And your right, there could be a female version of each piece, but since we're always playing as Arno and the other characters are just unplayable skins creating them would be a waste of time. Had it been a female, it would have been the opposite way - the avatars would be female and only female gear and animations would have been created for co-op.

Yeah but the Co-op missions were non-linear events anyway. In this sense, when using "not-arno", we are basically helping him earn something that will help him with the other stuff he needs to do in his story. If they had made the co-op missions linear to the story, then it would not work, but the way they did it, it's saying "Hey, look! At some point, Arno and his mates (or even just some of arno's mates) went and did this important thing." The awards are just a little extra to make them worthwhile. The Multiplayer aspect is the only point in this game where any kind of freedom of character is in any way implementable. We have to use our imagination a bit, otherwise the whole animus idea comes crashing down, never mind just the co-op section :D

Mr.Black24
04-30-2015, 04:37 PM
Yeah but the Co-op missions were non-linear events anyway. In this sense, when using "not-arno", we are basically helping him earn something that will help him with the other stuff he needs to do in his story. If they had made the co-op missions linear to the story, then it would not work, but the way they did it, it's saying "Hey, look! At some point, Arno and his mates (or even just some of arno's mates) went and did this important thing." The awards are just a little extra to make them worthwhile. The Multiplayer aspect is the only point in this game where any kind of freedom of character is in any way implementable. We have to use our imagination a bit, otherwise the whole animus idea comes crashing down, never mind just the co-op section :D
Totally agree dude. As I had mentioned firstly, it could have been a solid possibility to have female assassins in the multiplayer aspect. The Multiplayer and SinglePlayer sections were barely connected by a thread, might as well as have the ability to change up our Assassin's gender as well. I mean yeah, Arno was present during all those co-op missions, but his partners could have been anyone else. Could have been female ya know?

Plus I find it surprising that a franchise that has been known to barely change it's gameplay to do something incredibly and positively change it up big time while another equally large franchise that claims about being "innovating", that it ignores some basic needed(well some might argue that it doesn't) changes, such as a female lead.

I just hope that at least in the Multiplayer aspect, that Ubisoft can change it up in Victory that way.

Markaccus
04-30-2015, 06:55 PM
Totally agree dude. As I had mentioned firstly, it could have been a solid possibility to have female assassins in the multiplayer aspect. The Multiplayer and SinglePlayer sections were barely connected by a thread, might as well as have the ability to change up our Assassin's gender as well. I mean yeah, Arno was present during all those co-op missions, but his partners could have been anyone else. Could have been female ya know?

Plus I find it surprising that a franchise that has been known to barely change it's gameplay to do something incredibly and positively change it up big time while another equally large franchise that claims about being "innovating", that it ignores some basic needed(well some might argue that it doesn't) changes, such as a female lead.

I just hope that at least in the Multiplayer aspect, that Ubisoft can change it up in Victory that way.

A slight sideways shift in topic from me here, but i feel that MP and SP should not rely on each other. Having the OPTION to include others in your game is great, but you should not penalised if you choose not to. You pay for the game therefore you should get full access to all single player content,including any unlockable armours. Especially now that on ps4 you have to pay to play on line ( i know xbox always did)

Mr.Black24
05-01-2015, 03:27 AM
A slight sideways shift in topic from me here, but i feel that MP and SP should not rely on each other. Having the OPTION to include others in your game is great, but you should not penalised if you choose not to. You pay for the game therefore you should get full access to all single player content,including any unlockable armours. Especially now that on ps4 you have to pay to play on line ( i know xbox always did)
Whole heartily agree with this! It could have been something like earning enough XP to unlock the items, but playing the CO-OP would make things much quicker. Not enough to irritate people, but just enough to see a good difference in unlocking speed of SP and MP. After all, logically, working together would gain more experience than working alone.

Markaccus
05-01-2015, 09:41 AM
Whole heartily agree with this! It could have been something like earning enough XP to unlock the items, but playing the CO-OP would make things much quicker. Not enough to irritate people, but just enough to see a good difference in unlocking speed of SP and MP. After all, logically, working together would gain more experience than working alone.

I could live with that. It actively encourages co-op play, but does not force it. I would like to see co-op missions that are only barely linked to the main story in the sp. They could call them brotherhood missions and could be set anywhere in the world, and you could have your own assassin to do them. The XP earned would be related to the players (us) skill at controlling an ancestor in the animus, which provides an acceptable link to more skills for the SP character (because we are better at controlling them). Finances earned from co-op missions would be to fund the brotherhood as a whole, and would therefore be available to the sp character.

The4orTy67
05-01-2015, 09:43 AM
The Social Justice Warriors as well as Tumblr people are already loving this.

pirate1802
05-02-2015, 11:29 AM
Probably because call of duty protagonists are paper thin to begin with. So give 'em a new skin some new animation and a different VA and bazinga! We haz our femal purtagonis!


During the AC time periods and settings we have had so far, a female lead is going to be MOSTLY seen as unrealistic historically (i personally have no problem though)D

This argument drives me mad (yeah yeah I know you said you don't have a problem with that but since your post mentions it I'm quoting :p) Firstly, it's not as if AC is super-duper realistic anyway. Ancient glowy alien gods, mind controlling apples, belief-defying conspiracy theories and whatnot. And let's not even go into the gameplay-centric breaks from reality. Secondly, it's not as if we don't already have female assassins, we have plenty! Ezio's apprentices came in both male and female varieties. Remember an acrobatic assassin in Revelations who managed to run faster than Ezio? Yeah there are all those examples. There are more in the lore but these are the ones we actually see in the game fighting alongside men and just as good. And nobody raised this unrealistic bogeyman back then, which leads me to conclude that people have a problem only when the protagonist is a female, and they manage to shroud their insecurities behind this 'not very realistic!' purdah.

Markaccus
05-02-2015, 04:45 PM
Probably because call of duty protagonists are paper thin to begin with. So give 'em a new skin some new animation and a different VA and bazinga! We haz our femal purtagonis!



This argument drives me mad (yeah yeah I know you said you don't have a problem with that but since your post mentions it I'm quoting :p) Firstly, it's not as if AC is super-duper realistic anyway. Ancient glowy alien gods, mind controlling apples, belief-defying conspiracy theories and whatnot. And let's not even go into the gameplay-centric breaks from reality. Secondly, it's not as if we don't already have female assassins, we have plenty! Ezio's apprentices came in both male and female varieties. Remember an acrobatic assassin in Revelations who managed to run faster than Ezio? Yeah there are all those examples. There are more in the lore but these are the ones we actually see in the game fighting alongside men and just as good. And nobody raised this unrealistic bogeyman back then, which leads me to conclude that people have a problem only when the protagonist is a female, and they manage to shroud their insecurities behind this 'not very realistic!' purdah.


Totally agree. There are loads of ways around this argument, and the people who dont want a female protag will be the people who cite unrealism. I only pointed it out due to Unity being set in france during a time where women were not even allowed to manage thier own finances. (Highlighted in one of the murder mysteries). There does seem to be the odd bit of double standards when it comes to realism/sparkly bogeymen :D

Mr.Black24
05-02-2015, 05:36 PM
Probably because call of duty protagonists are paper thin to begin with. So give 'em a new skin some new animation and a different VA and bazinga! We haz our femal purtagonis!



This argument drives me mad (yeah yeah I know you said you don't have a problem with that but since your post mentions it I'm quoting :p) Firstly, it's not as if AC is super-duper realistic anyway. Ancient glowy alien gods, mind controlling apples, belief-defying conspiracy theories and whatnot. And let's not even go into the gameplay-centric breaks from reality. Secondly, it's not as if we don't already have female assassins, we have plenty! Ezio's apprentices came in both male and female varieties. Remember an acrobatic assassin in Revelations who managed to run faster than Ezio? Yeah there are all those examples. There are more in the lore but these are the ones we actually see in the game fighting alongside men and just as good. And nobody raised this unrealistic bogeyman back then, which leads me to conclude that people have a problem only when the protagonist is a female, and they manage to shroud their insecurities behind this 'not very realistic!' purdah.Don't worry about this mate! While this argument does exist, it rarely raises its head, after all, the fandom had been shouting for a female Assassin lead since forever, so its the matter of due time.

However I would have loved it in Victory much more. Like imagine a young woman who had risen from the poverty state to a higher class, yet remaining kind and humble. Despite having a successful business, as much as a woman is allowed in her time, realizes that trouble is brewing in her city, and wanting to do something about it she tries to go out on her own. However, being a woman, not many pay attention to her, and various of others get hostile. This gets the attention of a certain group however and contracts her as in invite to their group....

Something like this or whatever, but the point is, having a female Assassin would be a refreshing experience. I know playing as Aveline in Liberation was, just left me wanting for more!

TexasCaesar
05-09-2015, 07:01 PM
No integrity. Either make the protagonist male or make them female. Narrative-driven games have no obligation to let you build your own character. Better to leave that for the open RPGs like Fallout.

Civona
05-09-2015, 08:52 PM
I hope they do this in Syndicate. Would be easy to justify as an animus glitch or the memory being corrupted so you have to fill in some of the blanks about who a person was.

EmptyCrustacean
05-09-2015, 11:06 PM
No integrity. Either make the protagonist male or make them female. Narrative-driven games have no obligation to let you build your own character. Better to leave that for the open RPGs like Fallout.

Agree. I think it's a cop-out. After several games where we're forced to play as a male protagonist i don't understand why you can't make a female protagonist.

rprkjj
05-09-2015, 11:07 PM
Agree. I think it's a cop-out. After several games where we're forced to play as a male protagonist i don't understand why you can't make a female protagonist.

I'm sure they can, the matter is if they will.