PDA

View Full Version : N1-K2J shiden-kai vs Ki-84 Hayate



Bellicause
04-14-2004, 09:27 AM

Bellicause
04-14-2004, 09:27 AM

GK.
04-14-2004, 10:18 AM
The Shiden Kai was to become perhaps the best all-round fighter to be operational in the Pacific theatre. It was fast, powerful, and maneuverable, and was well-armed and armored. In the hands of an experienced pilot, the Shiden-Kai was the equal of any Allied fighter, even the later models of the P-51 Mustang which began to appear over Japan in the spring of 1945. In one notable action, on February 16 1945 over Yokohama, Warrant Officer Kinsuke Muto of the 343rd Kokutai in an N1K2-J single-handedly battled a dozen F6F Hellcats. He shot down four of them before the rest were forced to break off combat and return to their carrier. However, against the B-29, the N1K2-J was less successful, since its climbing speed was insufficient and the power of the Homare 21 engine fell off rather rapidly at higher altitudes.

personally, ill be flying the george.

[This message was edited by GK. on Wed April 14 2004 at 09:45 AM.]

Bellicause
04-14-2004, 11:07 AM
I personnally think that the George was superior to F-6F Hellcat and F-4U corsair. But this is not the question in that poll. In Fb the Hayate nearly matches all the fighters with a classic engine. Shiden kai is going to be awsome in PF, indeed, in my opinion. I'll also fly it.

WUAF_Badsight
04-15-2004, 03:09 AM
with the low speed it had it sure better have good accelleration because there are faster planes than it

& anyone with even a small amount of DF experience knows how easy it is to survive against a bandit when you have superior level speed & climb . . . . .

ElAurens
04-15-2004, 05:27 AM
Without actually flying the PF George, it will be hard to say which will be the better aircraft. For the time being my money is on the Ki84, better the devil you know...

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

sugaki
04-15-2004, 11:46 AM
Overall the Hayate's probably a better plane, but I like the Shidenkai because of its maneuverability. Can make rings around Hellcats, has pretty good acceleration. You can potentially wreak havoc in a Shidenkai against any US plane ...given that it's not flying at high altittude http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WereSnowleopard
04-15-2004, 03:07 PM
Umm...I think I will prefer fly Ki-100. Also my wish for "fantasy plane" is A7M Reppu.

P-DEX
04-15-2004, 03:20 PM
Bah. Give me an Oscar. I like piloting a plane that has two puny machine guns and will explode into a giant fireball if I so much as fart in the cockpit. Now THAT'S UBER!!

Gunner_361st
04-15-2004, 03:24 PM
I'll take the Zero and the Oscar too, when I fly Japanese fighters. Pilots who can shoot down boom and zooming American planes with these will be the real hot-shots of the virtual community. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Major Gunner of the 361st vFG

http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1080.jpg

GK.
04-15-2004, 03:27 PM
strangely enough, the oscar was the plane of most japanese aces. It will be interesting to see how it is modeled in PF.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/tonysig.jpg

faustnik
04-15-2004, 03:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GK.:
strangely enough, the oscar was the plane of most japanese aces. It will be interesting to see how it is modeled in PF.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why is it strange? The K-43 was flown constantly from 1941 into 1945, far more than any other JAAF fighter. In addition, it flew when Japan still held air superiority against older Allied designs.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
www.7Jg77.com (http://www.7jg77.com)
CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

P-DEX
04-15-2004, 03:37 PM
True.

If I remember reading correctly, the Oscar was even more maneuverable than the Zero because it didn't have the armament the Zero had...mainly the double 20's in the wings and absolutely no armor at all. In the hands of a good pilot, an Oscar was almost impossible to keep in an Allied pilots sights. She wasn't fast (by late war standards at any rate) but she sure was hard to hit. But when she was hit, she burned easily.

faustnik
04-15-2004, 03:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by P-DEX:
True.

If I remember reading correctly, the Oscar was even _more_ maneuverable than the Zero because it didn't have the armament the Zero had...mainly the double 20's in the wings and absolutely _no_ armor at all. In the hands of a good pilot, an Oscar was almost impossible to keep in an Allied pilots sights. She wasn't fast (by late war standards at any rate) but she sure was hard to hit. But when she was hit, she burned easily.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Difficult to keep in your sights if it sees you! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif The AVG showed just how vulnerable the Ki-43 was to B&Z attacks. The G.50 should give us an impression of what the Ki-43 will be like. The Ki will be even lighter and more maneuverable but, even easier to kill with .50 cal.

The armament of the Ki is not that bad. Almost all Ki-43s were armed with two 12.7mm mgs (similar to the G.50).

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
www.7Jg77.com (http://www.7jg77.com)
CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

GK.
04-15-2004, 04:36 PM
actually u are mistaken, most oscars had 2 7.7mm machine guns. It is surprising that so many aces flew this plane because the armement is so weak.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg

GK.
04-15-2004, 04:38 PM
btw only 6,000 ki-43s were produced compared to 10,500 zeros.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg

faustnik
04-15-2004, 04:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GK.:
actually u are mistaken, most oscars had 2 7.7mm machine guns. It is surprising that so many aces flew this plane because the armement is so weak.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's your source GK?

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
www.7Jg77.com (http://www.7jg77.com)
CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

GK.
04-15-2004, 04:59 PM
i have many sources, japanese planes fascinate me. Here is one online source that i find particularly good.

http://www.members.tripod.com/chip2500/id319.htm

The ki-43 was upgraded to 12.7mm in a later version of the aircraft, but the majority of the kills scored by Japanese aces were done in the early war models which featured the 7.7s.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg

faustnik
04-15-2004, 05:07 PM
"Nakajima Ki-84 Hayabusa: by R. Bueschel states that a total of only 35 Ki-84a were produced. This is listed as the only model with two 7.7mm mg armament.

I have some more sources at home to check.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
www.7Jg77.com (http://www.7jg77.com)
CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

Kiku104
04-15-2004, 05:13 PM
I like the Ki-84: outstanding acceleration combined with above average top speed, climb, and maneuverability make it a great plane. One advantage of the N1-K2 was its firepower, but the Ki-84B and C make that point mute. Ki-84 is also one of the best looking radial engine fighters ever.

Perhaps the planes I look forward to the most in PF are the Ki-61 and 43. It will be awesome to have a full complement of JAAF fighters.

GK.
04-15-2004, 05:21 PM
"The fighter that was requested to replace the Ki-27 was to have extremely advanced features for the period: a maximum speed of 310mph, five minutes for ascent to 16,250 feet, a range of 500 miles, two 7.7mm machine guns; and maneuverability at least equal to that of the fine ki-27......A total of 716 Ki-43I were built. A much improved model followed in 1942"

I think you may be right and i misread. The quote is from "world war II airplanes volume 2". It doesnt talk about modifications, just the original aircraft. In any case I would like to see what your other sources have to say.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg

faustnik
04-15-2004, 05:38 PM
yeah, we should check as many sources as possible as it will make a BIG difference!

Two 7.7mm mgs only is pretty sad against tough a/c like F4Fs. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
www.7Jg77.com (http://www.7jg77.com)
CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

Giganoni
04-15-2004, 07:12 PM
Faustnik you should check out the Ki-43 II which was being built in 42..b version was in November. You might find it a pretty good little plane (little because it was smaller than the Zero), yes the armament is weak but, it had pilot armor and self sealing fuel tanks. The pilot armor was actually very good, 13mm (gotten from www.wwiitech.net (http://www.wwiitech.net) sources cited at end of article) Someone, I believe Chuck_Older, gave me specification for a P51B which was out around the same time (maybe later in the PTO) and its pilot armor was 7/16" That is around 11.5 mm. So the Hayabusa II's pilot armor was just as good as the Ki-84s.

P-DEX
04-16-2004, 08:23 AM
Yes, later model Oscars did get the upgrade of two 12.7mm machine guns as opposed to the weak 7.7mm guns in the earlier models. The early model Oscar was the one I was alluding to earlier.

Remember Aces of the Pacific? Geez, it was HELL trying to knock a Wildcat out of the sky with that early model Oscar. Sure, you could get on his six easily but with those twin .30 caliber equivalents trying to beat that damn plane out of the sky...frustrating. The only thing you could do was hope to kill the pilots or miraculously puncture the gas tank.