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XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 01:21 PM
Hi there.

I'm finding it incredibly difficult to get into online dogfighting. Now I don't need teaching on handling the planes, I know about CEM and have been flying for many years. My tactics could do with some work, though. But my main problem is the people.

Now I'm sure that there are plenty of nice players on HL who would be willing to take part in a decent, friendly dogfight. Well I havent found them yet.

It seems some people only try to get as many points as possible. I find this ridiculous (especially seen as how flawed the points system is anyway). I enter a server that does not allow vulching, and I get shot whilst starting my engine, I respawn and get shot again. Many of the people don't seem willing to help me improve my game. Sometimes I shoot people down, they end up swearing at me. These are examples.

Basically I think this behaviour is extremely damaging to a community, if I didn't know better I probably wouldn't fly online again. But I do know better, I know there must be friendly people out there that can help me fly better, and are willing to take part in a friendly contest, without taking it seriously. Hopefully these idiots are a small minority.

After all, it's only a game.

Does anyone agree with me? Are there any experienced pilots willing to advise the newbies? Are there any more newbies willing to take part in friendly dogfights, learning by each other's mistakes?

I love this game, and want to enjoy online dogfighting.

Many thanks,
Automated.Alice. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 01:21 PM
Hi there.

I'm finding it incredibly difficult to get into online dogfighting. Now I don't need teaching on handling the planes, I know about CEM and have been flying for many years. My tactics could do with some work, though. But my main problem is the people.

Now I'm sure that there are plenty of nice players on HL who would be willing to take part in a decent, friendly dogfight. Well I havent found them yet.

It seems some people only try to get as many points as possible. I find this ridiculous (especially seen as how flawed the points system is anyway). I enter a server that does not allow vulching, and I get shot whilst starting my engine, I respawn and get shot again. Many of the people don't seem willing to help me improve my game. Sometimes I shoot people down, they end up swearing at me. These are examples.

Basically I think this behaviour is extremely damaging to a community, if I didn't know better I probably wouldn't fly online again. But I do know better, I know there must be friendly people out there that can help me fly better, and are willing to take part in a friendly contest, without taking it seriously. Hopefully these idiots are a small minority.

After all, it's only a game.

Does anyone agree with me? Are there any experienced pilots willing to advise the newbies? Are there any more newbies willing to take part in friendly dogfights, learning by each other's mistakes?

I love this game, and want to enjoy online dogfighting.

Many thanks,
Automated.Alice. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 01:30 PM
yup, there are many a'sholes out there. but there are also some very friendly and nice people. i know some. try flying on small servers with only 6-10 people, there the atmosphere is most likely better. on these 30 people servers the a'sholes think they can hide in the crowd or so, i guess. at least thats my impression.

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 01:57 PM
First question: HyperLobby or UBI?

I fly on HyperLobby mostly because of the "jerk factor" I encountered the first couple of times I flew there. That was back in the IL-2 days, so it might be different now.

Never understood the whole talking smack bit. If you shoot somebody down, say "Salute!" and move on. No need to rub it in. Besides, you may be fighting someone who is not only flying the sim but talking to the wife while the kid sits on his lap.

Second question: Difficulty settings.

My experience is that the more relaxed the settings the worse the behavior, right up until you get to the max difficulty ones - then an elitism seems to settle in.

The "friendly" band seems to me to be FR/PL/EXT (with or without icons). This might not be a completely fair statement, as I must admit that most of the folks I know from RB3D tend to fly this level of setting, and we carry the courtesy from our happy WWI sim on over to FB.

Take a look at some squadrons, see how they come across. You don't have to join them, but if they seem to be the sort you'd like to fly with, find out when they host servers and join in. Or just look for their tag in HL and join them.

For example, if you like flying Axis, the WW's (Wing Walkers) and II/JG1 are both very honorable and friendly sorts - they just want to fly and have fun, using tactics and getting the mission on. On the VVS side, RAF74 and our very own 2GvSAP are more interested in blowing stuff up and shooting planes down than collecting some arbitrary score.

Third:

Read the briefings. Some servers are built for furballs, and some for more serious fighting, with ground targets, bases farther apart, year grouping of aircraft, etc. Neither is "superior" to the other, but if all you're looking for is a quick fight, a five minute fight to the target might not be very fun. And if you're looking to gain altitude and go hunting, the sparring map with bases 2KM apart will only frustrate you.

There's a whole 'nother sim to enjoy online, where you not only make friends, but get to fly against different skill levels, from spinning lead bait (me) to killer aces.

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 02:03 PM
First of all, welcome to the community, although I'm a poor ambassador. I don't know if I'm experianced, but I have been flying IL2 and FB since they came out. For a long time I flew on Ubi, but recently have switched to HL. There's good pilots in both. One thing I know, is that you never stop learning. There are some VERY competetive people and squads out there. Myself, I'd rather have a good battle one on one than BnZ some hapless guy below me. That dosen't mean I don't do it, or let my teammate got shot down, but I'd much rather face someone in comparable kites and go at it. I almost always learn something new from these encounters. I'd much rather get shot down in a good fight than vulch some poor chap who just spawned. georgeo76 has a good article on dogfighting online.


http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/FYLindex.htm

Some of it's basic stuff, but maybe you haven't considered things from his anlge before. I happen to be somewhere in the middle, especially if a team mate is in trouble. Look me up sometime on HL, Cajun71. There are good people out there, don't let the bad apples ruin your barrel of fun. I have an answer for any question you have, it just might not be a good answer! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 02:06 PM
thanks, I'll take a look out for those people, my name on Hyperlobby is Automated.Alice.

Yes I have encountered some elitism when it comes to hard settings. Personally I think that the hardest settings are not only unrealistic, but downright boring! (challenging yes, fun: NO!).

I refuse to fly without externals, I like to see my plane get shot up, and see people's skins /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif But I like to have a realistic plane to fly (ie. CEM, overheat, G-Effects, all that malarky /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif )

Thanks, Alice.

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 03:13 PM
am a newb also - have found several fliers that will help - others i agree with u r point fliers - hang in there and open ur own room for 2 - ull get point people that just want to blow u away - u will also get fliers that really will help u out - be patient

Tully__
10-25-2003, 03:59 PM
If you have the time & patience to fly complete missions, try coops if there's one going.

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Salut
Tully

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 04:03 PM
yea I love coops, and its not like I need alot of time, anyway, because the amazing bomber rear-gunners always kill me /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

not many going on at the moment, just been on HL. Think I'll go play something else for now.

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 04:12 PM
Alice

I sometimes run a small server. Actually I just have two players. He and I run small co-ops. I am trying to get a third person into the game.

E mail me at ab60h@yahoo.com

He and I are relative newbies. And I do not fly full difficulty.

Ironhand

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 04:17 PM
that sounds good.

Are you playing FB now? Because I'm really bored and none of the games on HL look particularly thrilling. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 04:19 PM
Yep, lotta fools out there. That is the downside of free online gaming. Subscription gaming is a lot better for online play in regard to politeness, but the fidelity of the online sims just doesn't touch il2, and then there's the fee.

Best thing to do is find a squad, lonewolfing it gets frustrating and boring (at least for me). Nice to coordinated with others in a team.

Roy Baty
IV/JG51 M├┬Âlders

"Be happy in your work!"
- Col. Saito

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XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 05:57 PM
"I'm really bored and none of the games on HL look particularly thrilling"


Do you expect to get more out of this than what you put in to it?


It it a game that depends upon imagination. I'd be bored too if I thought it was nothing more than looking at a monitor while moving some levers around.

Even the most aggressive, vocal, abrasive, types who strive for higher point scores, present a challenge. They offer competition.

Entertain me.





JG14_Josf

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 06:15 PM
"entertain me" ...

umm, no thanks.

"I'm really bored and none of the games on HL look particularly thrilling"

I said that because, at the time, there was nothing much going on in HL... and hoping that maybe someone on the forums would come on and play some co-ops or something.

really, theres no need to be so patronising. I'm not really interested in "competition". I play the game because its fun, and sometimes you shoot people down, sometimes people shoot you down, simple as that.

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 06:19 PM
Develop a thicker skin and get better at dogfighting.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 06:42 PM
Try the FAST server(s) on UBI.com. Most of the crowd is particularly friendly (well I am - unless ye ram me all the time) and the dogfights are generally pretty fun. Vulching is allowed but there are always two airfields and generally one is much harder to get to than the other.

Infact I just take off from the rear airfield all the time now, get alt and bnz as much as possible.

http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/icefire/icefire_tempest.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 06:46 PM
Get better at dogfighting. Well that sounds like a reasonable plan, but as my original post pointed out, I seem to be having great trouble finding an "Ace" (probably like yourself /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ) who is willing to teach, or other newbies who can teach each other. At the moment I'm enjoying co-ops though /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I dont understand your "thicker skin" statement. If you mean it as something personal, don't worry, I'm already perfectly capable of looking after myself /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Thanks, Alice.

EDIT: yea IceFire, i've tried Ubi before, not too keen on it really. The people are friendly enough, but the client is pretty poor, and there are alot less games. Will look on there some time though /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



Message Edited on 10/25/0305:48PM by automated.alice

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 06:53 PM
Patronize:

"to adopt an air of condescension toward : treat haughtily or coolly"

Condenscension:

"voluntary descent from one's rank or dignity in relations with an inferior"


automated.alice wrote:

"Many of the people don't seem willing to help me improve my game."


JG14_Josf wrote:

"It it a game that depends upon imagination."



Clearly you are having trouble depending upon others to entertain you. I offer the observation that your game depends upon your own capacity for imagination.




JG14_Josf

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 07:05 PM
Again, I'm afraid you are patronizing me again, Mr. Josf. I wouldnt use the word without knowing what it meant. I am a grown up. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

I clearly pointed out in a previous post that I enjoy the game! I love it! I don't have trouble depending on others to entertain me, I can entertain myself. But it would be a much more enjoyable game if I were to find some decent, like-minded people to play with. And maybe some people to teach me useful things.

Agressive people are many in this online world, I know there are friendly people reading this forum. That's why I posted.

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 07:24 PM
Basically, what she mentioned about online play, and 'some' people, is sort of happening in this thread.

Really. Where did this come from:
"Do you expect to get more out of this than what you put in to it?"

You have no reason to even imply that automated.alice even insinuated that.

Get off it.

Unless, 'you' truly think it unreasonable for a person to want to learn and have fun at the same time?

automated.alice, <font color="lime">welcome to the forums</font>.

Obviously, online, as well as here on the forums, you will always find someone willing to cut you for no good reason. You will have to ignore that. Or, counter it, if that is your mood.

Just do as you have been in regards to servers. try and find no vulching servers, that have an admin present, at least, most of the time. Other than that, hook up with people like Iris47, or others, that make similar offers.

Or, as mentioned, make your own small room for your practice sessions, with your rules and settings. When you feel more comfortable, or from time to time, venture into some other servers.

Good luck.

<s>(Man, this better not be another troll thread by a regular. It seems like one. Although, it is well written.)</s>

EDIT: Strike.

<p align="center">http://forums.ubi.com/i/icons/Symbols/symbol-us-flag.gif </br></br><font size="1" color="white"><u>RealKill</u></font></p><font size="1" color="#4A535C">

Message Edited on 10/25/0301:27PM by RealKill

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 07:30 PM
Thanks RealKill.

I'll respond to your last comment (I think I'm understanding it correctly). I assure you, I AM new to this game as far as multiplayer is concerned.

Also if someone tries to rip me apart for no apparent reason, I'll try my best to counter it, because I believe I have superior inteligence /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Just kidding.

Well if any of you see me online on HL, give me a call. I'll join your game and you can shoot me down /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Alice.

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 07:45 PM
hello automated.alice http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I agree with what VW-IceFire has wrote, try the "Fast" server on Ubi for a good friendly environment or the "Perrenegger" server on HL. I think the Fast server allows external views (90% real) and the Perrenegger is full real.

see you there sometime http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 08:18 PM
automated.alice,

Again, my intent is not to patronize.

If you are looking for help to get the most out of this game, then my question and suggestion still stands unaswered and ignored.


You wrote:

"I know there must be friendly people out there that can help me fly better, and are willing to take part in a friendly contest, without taking it seriously. Hopefully these idiots are a small minority."


I offer the following advice in an offer of friendship. If you cannot take my offer as constructive criticizm then there is no reason for me to continue. I saw your post and it is my assumtion that you have asked for help. I do not waste much time suger coating things.

Look in the mirror.

Now, if you are still reading please consider that I am not accusing. On the contrary; my statement is simply a effort to communicate.

If people don't help you fly better, if they take things too seriously then please consider that you may also be taking things too seriously. Do you still see my perspective as an attack and if so why? Am I an idiot?
Am I so supid that I cannot even see how idiotic I am?





JG14_Josf

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 08:29 PM
Sorry, Josf. I wasn't calling you an idiot, I was referring to the kind of people who vulch me twice in a row, you know what I mean.

I appreciate your trying to help, really. Your posts just came across as quite agressive. I probably took it the wrong way. I'm also well open to constructive criticism, but not as to how I view the game (philosophically, or whatever) because I see it as only a game, I don't take it very seriously. But I would like to be better at it, and that is how I would like my constructive criticism, within the game. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Hopefully you see what I'm getting at, though I'm explaining it very badly /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Sorry again,
Alice.

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 09:15 PM
automated.alice,

I still remember being new in the on-line gaming experience. I still remember what it was like and I still have the desire to improve.

The ones that taught me the most were the aggressive types. Learning how to defeat them at their own game is the fastest way to improve, in my opinion.

Joining an active squad, again in my opinion, is the best way to improve your on-line experience.

If you are serious about improvement. If you want to learn how to be a better on-line flight sim fighter pilot and for whatever reason it is difficult to get others to help then try this:

Set aside an hour of uniterrupted time.
Join any active dog fight server on hyperlobby.
Get a full tank of gas
launch from your field only when it is safe to do so, and it may be neccesary to launch from a field that is further from the main battle area.
Circle your field and defend it against attack.
Help others launch.
Follow the next friendly plane who takes off but keep your distance.
Watch how the friendly operates.
Help the friendly if he gets into trouble.

If you follow my advice you will learn many important things and you may also earn friendship with those that you help.

It is not easy to follow my advice. It takes discipline. I think that you will find such discipline to be a great resource toward improvement in on-line combat flight simulation.

If on the other hand you simply want to practice shooting down planes then use the QMB.

My advice, if you want to learn how to fight other people is to learn how they behave, in order to do this you must be in a possition to observe them. To observe others you must avoid being a target.




JG14_Josf

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 09:18 PM
that actually sounds like great advice, thanks.. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

oh by the way, I'm not new to online gaming, I'm a seasoned veteran /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif just an FB n00b /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ZG77_Nagual
10-25-2003, 09:22 PM
Dear AA

On the ZG77 server I've built in two refuge bases - one for each side - these have intense aa corridors. I allow vulching because not allowing it just creates noise. I don't do it myself and will allways let a damaged opponent go if he's obviously trying to land - even if he just vulched me. Fly to your own standards and drop by any time.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 09:35 PM
What ever you do, don't let a few bad encounters spoil your fun. If someone displays poor sportsmanship, take note of their name to help avoid them in the future and just move on!

You might consider trying some Coop flights if you find ones that suit you as to difficulty settings. I've been spending a lot of time in VEF, one of the online Coop wars. They use very high settings but the continuity of the game adds an interesting element.

Good luck and have fun!

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Is the Bf-110C-4/B ready yet?<center>

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 10:40 AM
Heh!

Welcome aboard AA!

Here is some good advice.

Uninstall FB and break the CD! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Here is why:

1. You wont get frustrated when your newly learned tactic is countered by someone else and you lose.

2. You wont drive your car around and suddenly start to wonder if you are managing your "E" properly in a turn.

3. You wont spend hundreds of dollars trying to get better FPS to suddenly realize you can spend even more to get better FBS.

4. Your wife, girlfriend, or significant other (Or any combination thereof) wont roll their eyes at you whenever you fire up the computer.

5. You wont spend that last hour dogfighting when you really need to get some sleep before work.


But, if you are like me and all the other addicted idiots here /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif you wont heed my warning and keep flying. If so, take the advice already given by others. Flying with a friend on voice comms in dogfight arenas is especially useful, rewarding, helps to lessen the steep learning curve of flight sim'ming.

Dont pay attention to the vulchers. I dont vulch, but I do enjoy (In a masochistic sort of way) when I have a difficult time getting off the runway because the point mooks are trying to rack up an easy kill.

Fly to your taste and dont listen to people who tell you their way is better. If they want to buy you the game and the items mentioned in number 3 above, then, and only then do they have a right to insist anything!

Enjoy the game, fly it to the immersion level you like, and above everything else, HAVE FUN!

And my last bit of advice... Dont eat yellow snow, dont pee into a high speed fan, dont spill soda on your keyboard, and dont get a Red Ryder BB gun with a compass in the stock... you'll shoot your eye out! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/Fehler.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 12:48 PM
Welcome to IL.

To be honest I have not had any problems with other flyers, everyone has been more than polite and very kind to me as they shoot me down time after time. The moments when I do manage to hit someone there has never been any bad blood.

I like to fly in the server hosted by Smirnoff, have only seen it at the weekends tho. Good maps and a really fun group of players. Would recommend it.



I crash online as Madcowz.

Cpt-Madcowz
Comsa (http://www.comsa.co.uk)



"When the hunter comes, the tiger runs with the deer."

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 01:12 PM
http://passions.ru/baby/img/cry.jpg




Message Edited on 10/26/0312:13PM by Ick_352nd

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 01:47 PM
I take it that was a discreet stab in the back, Ick.

I really don't understand the point of doing something like that. Yes, my thread was a complaint (hence the title, "woes.."), however I've found some very nice people who are willing to help out. If you've got nothing useful to add, I recommend you simply don't bother.

And I'm not so soft as to get upset when someone criticizes or insults me, because I am above it all, and I'm used to it (having spent so long playing multiplayer online games).

And thanks for all the tips, everyone else. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Alice.

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XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 02:36 PM
join a squad AA. I found that the best way to improve my online experience, though I'm still an average pilot (my speciality is crashing), but I have plenty of fun.

Good way to avoid the a/holes too, which are a minority by and large.



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She turned me into a newt, but I got better.